Baby P

Latchy

When the baby P story broke anybody with a toddler would have looked at him / her and said like any normal parent or carer '' how could anybody do that to a baby '' ? and wept a few tears ?.That is what makes us human .The same with Jamie Bulger, Madeline McCann, and others ,we can picture our children in those situation and it horrifys us that there are people who can do such things .

Dudess

Yeah, but a parent's horror isn't more "worthy" than a non parent's horror - it's just horror from a different perspective.

walshb wrote: »

Well, I'd rather leave the bible out of this as I am not that religious to be honest.

Never said you were - the concept of an eye for an eye is old testament though.

Now, whether or not the penalty should apply for crimes other than murder is debatable and I believe, as others do, that it should apply and in some countries, it does apply!

Yeah, delightful countries like Saudi Arabia...

So, I gave two other crimes, one being Class A drug smuggling, which absolute destroys lives and communities and is a major reason why Dublin's inner city was blighted for decades. It leads to so many other problems and is a serious catalyst for the spreading of crime.

I also said that aggravated rape or aggravated burglary should be punishable by death. Need I give reasons? I think any half educated person can
comprehend the horror and pain to the victim/victims from
these two crimes

Yet no actual direct deaths...

walshb wrote: »

Well, going on other cases we have heard of, many of these heinous monsters get all their meals served, have access to computers, tv and an education?
Pool tables and supervised day releases and 25 percent off for good behaviour.

What monstrous child-torturing cases? It's more likely these are just scenarios dreamed up by the Daily Mail, the Evening Herald and callers to Joe Duffy. LOL at the way people think prison staff actually want to treat evil ***** like the Baby P killers well...
And better to get their meals served through a hatch than go to a dining hall where they'll have company, surely?
Yes, there have been cases where drug barons and, currently, dissident republicans appear to be having a pretty sweet time of it (although a lot of that is exaggerated I'd wager) but a person who has tortured one toddler to death and raped another? Come off it!

Now, I am not saying starvation is needed

Just death...

If I were in charge, these prisoners would simply be allowed air to breathe, fluids to drink, food to eat and the odd loosening of their muscles. Anything else would not be allowed. 23 hrs isolation inside their cell. They leave to eat and that is it! And that's because I would be forced to allow these things happen!

Are you in love with the exclamation mark by any chance...?
Anyhoo, yeah, the above scenario tweaked a bit seems like a reasonable punishment - why not that until death rather than ending it all for the bastards quickly?

Now, if it were my child or someone close to me, I doubt even I would be able to forgive and allow prison to be the punishment!

I wouldn't be able to forgive either, but since when has a grieving parent been able to directly dictate what the penalty will be?

walshb wrote: »

For those who think they will get a hard time in prison by others in there, think again.

I'd say there's a fair chance they will also... Even really hardcore ****ers would be appalled by what was done to Peter.

See, again I have been misquoted deliberately!

I didn't misquote you at all - you just chose to believe I did.

walshb wrote: »

Latchy, this guy will be housed with other sick ****s, so how will he be any different. Honestly, how many cases have you read of where a nasty git got beaten to death in prison because of HIS crimes. They are all sick vermin where this guy is going! I tell you, he'll be a hero to some of them!
Above is post #32 written by me! Housed with other sick creeps, hence, how will HE be any different!

Have you ever considered writing opinion pieces for The Sun?

walshb

Dudess wrote: »

Yeah, but a parent's horror isn't more "worthy" than a non parent's horror - it's just horror from a different perspective.

Never said you were - the concept of an eye for an eye is old testament though.

Yeah, delightful countries like Saudi Arabia...

Yet no actual direct deaths...

What monstrous child-torturing cases? It's more likely these are just scenarios dreamed up by the Daily Mail, the Evening Herald and callers to Joe Duffy. LOL at the way people think prison staff actually want to treat evil ***** like the Baby P killers well...
And better to get their meals served through a hatch than go to a dining hall where they'll have company, surely?
Yes, there have been cases where drug barons and, currently, dissident republicans appear to be having a pretty sweet time of it (although a lot of that is exaggerated I'd wager) but a person who has tortured one toddler to death and raped another? Come off it!

Just death...

Are you in love with the exclamation mark by any chance...?
Anyhoo, yeah, the above scenario tweaked a bit seems like a reasonable punishment - why not that until death rather than ending it all for the bastards quickly?

I wouldn't be able to forgive either, but since when has a grieving parent been able to directly dictate what the penalty will be?

I'd say there's a fair chance they will also... Even really hardcore ****ers would be appalled by what was done to Peter.

I didn't misquote you at all - you just chose to believe I did.

Have you ever considered writing opinion pieces for The Sun?

Dudess, you misquoted me earlier in this thread, that was already ironed out.

You seem to think you have an answer for everything.
Firstly, Saudi Arabia is ONE country that has the penalty. One!

So, I list Class A drug smuggling as a crime I want the death penalty for and your retort is, "yet no actual direct deaths."

Look, you can be pedantic, but that's clutching at straws. Class A drug smugglers
are the lowest of the low in my book and their actions do lead to death and misery and pain on whole communities. This is not made up, it is true!

Now, to the vile rapists and child killers and child rapists.
I simply said that these folks do not get all that hard a time considering
what they have actually done. Are you saying access to computers, tv, exercise
and an education does not happen for these? That is crap!

Are you saying that in prison, there are no facilities for these prisoners and it's a case
of breathe and eat and sleep for the duration of the sentence?
This is what I would have, but it is not what they get. They get a whole lot
more and are fed better than many on the outside.

Now, to the other prisoners. This beast involved in the Baby P case will
more than likely be housed with fellow vile rapists. He will be no
different. So, how will he be treated by these? I would say absolutely
fine. If he was housed with the general prison population, then I could
see problems.

Mrs JackDaniels

I really don't know why people can't have their own opinions without being slated for it

Dudess

Oh you mean opinions that are in agreement with yours?
And arguing with badly supported statements and insinuations is not the same as "slating" someone...

walshb wrote: »

Dudess, you misquoted me earlier in this thread, that was already ironed out.

I didn't. I said "burglary" instead of "aggravated burglary" - big woop. My point still stood anyway.

You seem to think you have an answer for everything.

I don't "seem to think I've an answer for everything"... if you mean I keep arguing back, well um... so do you.

Firstly, Saudi Arabia is ONE country that has the penalty. One!

So what if it's only one? You'd like to see the death penalty brought in for crimes that don't actually involve killing anyone, after all "it's the case in other countries!" And one of those is Saudi Arabia which I truly hope we don't ever take our lead from...

So, I list Class A drug smuggling as a crime I want the death penalty for and your retort is, "yet no actual direct deaths."

Look, you can be pedantic, but that's clutching at straws. Class A drug smugglers are the lowest of the low in my book and there actions do lead to death and misery and pain on whole communities. This is not made up, it is true!

Drug smuggling: not = killing someone. It may lead to deaths but the act itself doesn't kill anyone there and then.

Now, to the vile rapists and child killers and child rapists.
I simply said that these folks do not get all that hard a time considering
what they have actually done. Are you saying access to computers, tv, exercise and an education does not happen for these? That is crap!

I don't know whether it does or not? Do you? Or have you just been getting your info from the Daily Mail? Oh and they should get the minimum required exercise every day in order to prolong their lives so they have that bit longer to stew.

Are you saying that in prison, there are no facilities for these prisoners and it's a case of breathe and eat and sleep for the duration of the sentence?
This is what I would have, but it is not what they get. They get a whole lot
more and are fed better than many on the outside.

HOW do you know? Again, it implies there are actually people in the prison system who want to reward ****ers like these, which is just ludicrous.

Latchy

Originally Posted by walshb
For those who think they will get a hard time in prison by others in there, think again.

Do you have a greater insight to prison life than the rest of us ? How do you or I know what actually goes on there ? What about prison gaurds who have affairs with prisoners ,male and female ? What about the story's you hear ( and the ones you dont ) ? Are they all lies ? Just because prisoners like Huntly are now refered to by prison officers as ' Mr ' ( yes shocking isin't it ) doesn't mean sombody will not go out of their way to make his life unpleasent ,you just might not hear about it .

walshb

Dudess wrote: »

I didn't. I said "burglary" instead of "aggravated burglary" - big woop. My point still stood anyway.



Drug smuggling: not = killing someone. It may lead to deaths but the act itself doesn't kill anyone there and then.

I don't know whether it does or not? Do you? Or have you just been getting your info from the Daily Mail? Oh and they should get the minimum required exercise every day in order to prolong their lives so they have that bit longer to stew.

HOW do you know? Again, it implies there are actually people in the prison system who want to reward ****ers like these, which is just ludicrous.

Oh god, you did misquote me, anyway, that was dealt with!

C'mon, surely you can understand my point about drugs and society.
It does lead to death and misery and for this, I want harsh penalties, including the
death penalty for certain cases involving drugs. And for the thousandth time, I did
say that I was for the penalty for other crimes, not just murder.
I never said Class A drug smuggling causes INSTANT death.
I said it leads to misery and death and pain!

And, who is to say that it doesn't lead to death straight away. You sell a kid drugs, he/she ingests said drugs, he/she dies. See, I too can be pedantic!

Now, to the prison life. I know several prison guards who have told me that
the prisoners in IRISH prisons are treated extremely well and that they do have access
to the television, computers, libraries and exercise rooms, pool tables etc. Now, you can be your usual pedantic self and try to make out this is untrue, but I know it happens and
many others know it happens and I firmly disagree with it!

walshb

Latchy wrote: »

Do you have a greater insight to prison life than the rest of us ? How do you or I know what actually goes on there ? What about prison gaurds who have affairs with prisoners ,male and female ? What about the story's you hear ( and the ones you dont ) ? Are they all lies ? Just because prisoners like Huntly are now refered to by prison officers as ' Mr ' ( yes shocking isin't it ) doesn't mean sombody will not go out of their way to make his life unpleasent ,you just might not hear about it .

Latchy, I said that it is not all that silly to think
that a prisoner doesn't get a hard time all the time.

I know well some do get tough times; it's a prison
for chrissake with animals inside.

But to intimate that all these vile rapists and child killers
are having a horrid time inside is ALSO an inaccurate
claim.

So, in Ireland, I would say a fair share of nasty and decent
stuff befalls many a prisoner. It aint all doom and gloom inside
Irish prisons!

Huntley has already been attacked in prison, big deal.
I never said they NEVER get a hard time!

Dudess

walshb wrote: »

Oh god, you did misquote me

Where?

C'mon, surely you can understand my point about drugs and society.
It does lead to death and misery and for this, I want harsh penalties, including the death penalty for certain cases involving drugs.

Again, the act of smuggling itself doesn't result in immediate death (to the smuggler perhaps, that's it). So you want the death penalty in "certain cases". Where would you draw the line?

And, who is to say that it doesn't lead to death straight away. You sell a kid drugs, he/she ingests said drugs, he/she dies. See, I too can be pedantic!

Um... yeah. Again, the act of smuggling drugs doesn't lead to death. Why bring selling drugs to a kid into it when that's a separate scenario?
And you're still cool with the odd auld miscarriage of justice are you? You haven't got back to that one...

Now, to the prison life. I know several prison guards who have told me that the prisoners in IRISH prisons are treated extremely well and that they do have access to the television, computers, libraries and exercise rooms, pool tables etc.

Have any of those prisoners tortured/murdered/raped toddlers? And who gets to approve this life of luxury for the prisoners?

Now, you can be your usual pedantic self and try to make out this is untrue, but I know it happens and many others know it happens and I firmly disagree with it!

Look, you're frankly posting awful sh1te - just because it's piss-easy to pick it apart doesn't mean I'm pedantic, it just means your arguments are weak.

walshb

Dudess wrote: »

Where?

Again, the act of smuggling itself doesn't result in immediate death (to the smuggler perhaps, that's it). So you want the death penalty in "certain cases". Where would you draw the line?

Um... yeah. Again, the act of smuggling drugs doesn't lead to death. Why bring selling drugs to a kid into it when that's a separate scenario?
And you're still cool with the odd auld miscarriage of justice are you? You haven't got back to that one...

Have any of those prisoners tortured/murdered/raped toddlers? And who gets to approve this life of luxury for the prisoners?

Look, you're frankly posting awful sh1te - just because it's piss-easy to pick it apart doesn't mean I'm pedantic, it just means your arguments are weak.

I'm posting sh1te yet you are still harping on about this misquoting?
Do you know what misquoting even means?

Get a grip.

Now, are you still maintaining that prisoners, including rapists, do not have access
to facilities, including TV, libraries and exercise rooms? Seriously you still think
this does not happen? You are living in dream land mate.

Maybe you think that Irish prisoners are treated like they were in the Shawshank
film or in Midnight Express?

Irish prisoners do not serve what I would call "Hard time" or anything like it

Dudess, you believe I am telling porkies when I say that
prisoners in Irish prisons have access to facilities listed?

BTW, you are picking nothing apart, you never do!

Dudess

walshb wrote: »

I'm posting sh1te yet you are still harping on about this misquoting?

Get a grip.

Maybe when you tell me what I misquoted...

Now, are you still maintaining that prisoners, including rapists do not have access to facilities, including TV, libraries and exercise rooms? Seriously you still think this does not happen?

Eh... no? Where did I say they don't have access to these things? I said you don't know whether they do in all cases.

Maybe you think that Irish prisoners are treated like they were in the Shawshank film or in Midnight Express?

Yes, "maybe"... Sorry, what the fuk?

Irish prisoners do not serve what I would call "Hard time" or anything like it

We're talking about an exceptional case of child abuse here, and it did not happen in Ireland, so... irrelevant.

Dudess, you believe I am telling porkies when I say that prisoners in Irish prisons have access to facilities listed?

No... I'd question how much back-up you have though...

BTW, you are picking nothing apart, you never do!

Sure I don't honey, sure I don't...

walshb

Dudess wrote: »

Maybe when you tell me what I misquoted...

Eh... no? Where did I say they don't have access to these things? I said you don't know whether they do in all cases.

Yes, "maybe"... Sorry, what the fuk?

We're talking about an exceptional case of child abuse here, and it did not happen in Ireland, so... irrelevant.

No... I'd question how much back-up you have though...

Sure I don't honey, sure I don't...

Back up?

Did I say ALL?

I simply said that prisoners here, and I would imagine in Britain, do have access
to facilities, ones I listed. Now, I think this is wrong. That's all.
You commit a crime, and especially a serious and heinous crime, then
you should be locked up for a long time and have the bare necessities for life.

If the death penalty was here, then your life should be taken for the crime of murder
and Class A drug smuggling, and add in the selling to "customers" of Class A drugs, thanks Dudess, you reminded of this and also for Rape with aggravation and burglary with aggravation.

You know what, I don't even know what you are disagreeing with.
I simply said they do have access.

You disagree with the death penalty, great and that's your opinion.
I agree with the penalty, yet you want to argue why?

I said why. To some, it's a personal choice!

Davei141

walshb wrote: »

I said that other cons would be also heinous monsters. I said usually they are housed together. Read and do so slowly before trying to ridicule!

You seem to be under the impression they share stories of their crimes over a cigar and a game of poker. Reality is different.

This monster will more than likely be housed with other vile animals who
will get kicks from the stories. Do you think all the rapists and child killers in prison are somehow decent?

Decent? Yeah...no. Having great craic? No. Exchanging stories over a nice warm fire? No.

Child abusers and rapists are not isolated completely, usually they are housed with
fellow rapists and child abusers and are kept away from the general prison population.

How often do you think they are allowed "mingle" by the way?

Now, you seem to think that all these sex offenders are having a terrible emotional
time inside. How can you know this?

Just a guess.

I have read many examples where thee sex offenders are getting an education, have access to television and the internet etc etc.

Did your examples happen to put education, television and internet in bold or something?

Everything about your replies are tabloid esque nonsense. Sick this, monster that, vile this. They should be put to death blah blah. Keep using the words above because im sure the rest of us have forgotten that he is not a lovely fellow.

Dudess

Ok, I will put it to you simply:

You: "Prisoners have access to TVs and Playstations and X-Boxes and a pool table and a swimming pool and a jacuzzi and a DVD player and a cinema and lapdancers and Gordon Ramsey food and recitals by Beyoncé!"

Me: "Maybe, but you don't know whether they all do, and it surely depends on the severity of the crime."

You: "I'm lying am I? Oh I suppose you think prisoners here have the life of the guys in Midnight Express, hmm?"

Me: "No?"

walshb

Dudess wrote: »

Ok, I will put it to you simply:

You: "Prisoners have access to TVs and Playstations and X-Boxes and a pool table and a swimming pool and a jacuzzi and a DVD player and a cinema and lapdancers and Gordon Ramsey food and recitals by Beyoncé!"

Me: "Maybe, but you don't know whether they all do, and it surely depends on the severity of the crime."

You: "I'm lying am I? Oh I suppose you think prisoners here have the life of the guys in Midnight Express, hmm?"

Me: "No?"

Done with you!

Jacuzzi, playstation, xboxes, cinmema??? WTF is this?

I'm done with a poster who lies and misquotes. My debate is wasted
on this

javaboy

This thread's hanging by a thread.

EDIT: Thread snapped.

Davei141

Latchy wrote: »

When the baby P story broke anybody with a toddler would have looked at him / her and said like any normal parent or carer '' how could anybody do that to a baby '' ? and wept a few tears ?.That is what makes us human .The same with Jamie Bulger, Madeline McCann, and others ,we can picture our children in those situation and it horrifys us that there are people who can do such things .

Do you cry, tut and shake your head asking those around you "who could do such a thing?" On every single case? Whats the point in that stupid rhetorical question anyway besides letting people know your disgust. A baby is killed of course it's disgusting, we don't need you all vying for the position of number 1 most disgusted parent in Ireland though.

walshb

Davei141 wrote: »

You seem to be under the impression they share stories of their crimes over a cigar and a game of poker. Reality is different.



Decent? Yeah...no. Having great craic? No. Exchanging stories over a nice warm fire? No.



How often do you think they are allowed "mingle" by the way?




Just a guess.



Did your examples happen to put education, television and internet in bold or something?

Everything about your replies are tabloid esque nonsense. Sick this, monster that, vile this. They should be put to death blah blah. Keep using the words above because im sure the rest of us have forgotten that he is not a lovely fellow.

Over a warm fire, playing poker?

Are you and Dudess the same poster. Both seem to be intent on misleading
and misquoting!

Dudess

walshb wrote: »

Jacuzzi, playstation, xboxes, cinmema??? WTF is this?

I'm done with a poster who lies and misquotes.

It's adding a bit of humour to it, that's all - satirising how the outraged brigade exaggerate all the time. So anyway, where else have I lied and misquoted?