Urgent advice needed

Stheno

kdak wrote: »

i dunno how it works tbh, he said he went into his 500 euro overdraft once and it was taken from his wages the next month, as a result he then needed to use his overdraft again cause he had less money and the cycle keeps repeating, so basically he used 500 then paid it back but then after paying it back he needed to o/d again if that makes sense??? i think thats it anyway.

shes in full time education and the creche is on campus. i think they're looking into finding a cheaper creche. they cant afford to move in together as she'd lose her benefit which is used on the creche and her college expenses (travel, lunch, books etc) and the childs food, nappies etc. for at her parents house.

That's how an overdraft works tbh, until you start paying it back.

A cheaper creche/childminder is definitely worth looking into.

kdak

so is there a way of breaking the cycle? just save a bit each month til its enough to pay it off?

Stheno

kdak wrote: »

so is there a way of breaking the cycle? just save a bit each month til its enough to pay it off?

Yeah, e.g. either ask the bank to reduce the overdraft by a set amount each month (could be any amount) or just budget to reduce it.

In your friends situation though, unless he rents a single room like syklops outlined, he won't be able to afford that.

Could he rent a single room and visit the child at his gf's?

kdak

he could but they used to take alternate days in order to work round her schedual (sp?) cause gettin the train in was a struggle for her in the morning with the buggy. so it'd put alot of strain on the mum. also shes in college all day and when she gets back hes in work so by the time hes off the child is in bed. and shes back in college at nine (leaving at half seven) the next day.

Stheno

kdak wrote: »

he could but they used to take alternate days in order to work round her schedual (sp?) cause gettin the train in was a struggle for her in the morning with the buggy. so it'd put alot of strain on the mum. also shes in college all day and when she gets back hes in work so by the time hes off the child is in bed. and shes back in college at nine (leaving at half seven) the next day.

well tbh there has to be a bit of compromise here, if she'd make the effort to take the child into creche every day, it means he gets to rent a place and be close to his child and gets to see him, pay his half of the creche fees, and even have money over to pay off his overdraft and pay her maintenance.

SarahMc

They should apply for a place in a Community Creche .The place will be considerably cheaper than what they are paying.

CDfm

Reading between the lines - they are teenage parents and both sets of parents and probably a few others have gotten sick of their whinging and excuses.Everything would be fine if other people would only behave the way they want them to.

Isnt he lucky his Dad took him in.

Its time for a reality check.

kdak

CDfm wrote: »

Reading between the lines - they are teenage parents and both sets of parents and probably a few others have gotten sick of their whinging and excuses.Everything would be fine if other people would only behave the way they want them to.

Isnt he lucky his Dad took him in.

Its time for a reality check.

well tbh you know nothing about them.
its only the dad that has nowhere to live, the mothers parents are fine with her 'whinging'.and i also dont see how you came to the conclusion that they are whinging!

i said nothing about other people behaving like they wanted. its nothing to do with behaviour at all so i dont know how you read between the lines and got that.

and theres no excuses being made at all, they've been through all the options and none are viable bar the mother taking the child 24/7 which she is doing at the moment but to be perfectly honest i dont see why the father should have to miss out on seeing/minding his child just because hes not claiming the right benefits. neither of them are cheating the system like other people do, they've been told by nearly all of our mates that the only option is for the mother to claim rent and live with the dad but they want to do things the right way so i dont see why you have to be rude about me asking for some advice to help them out. and before you say 'get a job instead of claiming benefits' he has tried.

thebouldwhacker

CDfm wrote: »

Reading between the lines - they are teenage parents and both sets of parents and probably a few others have gotten sick of their whinging and excuses.Everything would be fine if other people would only behave the way they want them to.

Isnt he lucky his Dad took him in.

Its time for a reality check.

Damn, i didn't realise this was the 'i'm a single parent and I want someone to come along with their preconcieved judgments and tell me I suck' thread... damn

CDfm keep such comments for Joe Duffy, we are trying to help.

CDfm

He could be entitled to a dependent child tax credit worth 1830 per annum if the child stays with him more than one night a year.

kdak

CDfm wrote: »

He could be entitled to a dependent child tax credit worth 1830 per annum if the child stays with him more than one night a year.

i dont think he works enough to get taxed, he may do but i dont think he does.

CDfm

thebouldwhacker wrote: »

Damn, i didn't realise this was the 'i'm a single parent and I want someone to come along with their preconcieved judgments and tell me I suck' thread... damn

CDfm keep such comments for Joe Duffy, we are trying to help.

Im not making judgements - just saying that its a situation that the Dad needs to get used to addressing for the next 18 years (23 if the child goes to third level) so it is worth him and the childs Mum assessing what their plans actually are together or alone.

You are dealing with a child here and 2 teenage parents who need to plan their own lives out too.

Its not as complicated as all that.

thebouldwhacker

CDfm wrote: »

Reading between the lines - they are teenage parents and both sets of parents and probably a few others have gotten sick of their whinging and excuses.Everything would be fine if other people would only behave the way they want them to.

Isnt he lucky his Dad took him in.

Its time for a reality check.

Sorry CDfm, I understand what you are saying but if that isnt judging what is???

nofi

There are charitable housing associations, some deal with the elderly, homeless etc and some help people on low incomes by giving them accommodation at a low rent to give them a chance to save.Theres a list on www.icsh.ie. Also you could try www.threshold.ie

kdak

CDfm wrote: »

Im not making judgements - just saying that its a situation that the Dad needs to get used to addressing for the next 18 years (23 if the child goes to third level) so it is worth him and the childs Mum assessing what their plans actually are together or alone.

You are dealing with a child here and 2 teenage parents who need to plan their own lives out too.

Its not as complicated as all that.

well you are making judgements and incorrect ones at that. they have it all planned. shes in college to actually build a proper career while he works to pay the bills and then when she leaves college and gets a proper job they'll rent somewhere and he'll get an education/ apprenticeship and then when they both have stable jobs they'll buy a home together.
they are both trying the best for their child and right now to you it may seem like they're being a bit irresponsible and not planning long term but they're actually in the process of building a proper future rather than sponging for the rest of their lives and relying on benefits long term, they just need help short term, which is alot more than you can say for alot of 'mature' older parents. not that it was any of your business but just seeing as how you were so judgemental i thought you might wanna be put in your place.

also, her parents are incredibly supportive of their plans, it was just a family matter in his case, nothing to do with his parenting skills so he doesnt really need your negative comments.

kdak

nofi wrote: »

There are charitable housing associations, some deal with the elderly, homeless etc and some help people on low incomes by giving them accommodation at a low rent to give them a chance to save.Theres a list on www.icsh.ie. Also you could try www.threshold.ie

thank you for that, i'll check it out.

and for those of you who gave me advice for them, he has found a sharing house that doesnt mind his child staying and its a reasonable price too so hes gonna call about that tomorrow.

CDfm

kdak-Im just pointing out that you can make plans alright but the world and the benefit system wont nesscessarily see things your way.

I am going to make 2 observations,

One being that he should be getting on the education training ladder now because in 3 or 4 years time he will be starting out with people 4 years his junior and thats a lot of lost ground to make up and he may not find the transition easy.

The next is that she is at home with her parents and like it or not that does affect the benefits she can claim. If she was my child (and I am a Dad) I would agree to everything provided she goes to college.

Not so sure that I would be so happy as the boys parents. Recession ridden country, benefits and grants being cut and my little hero launching himself on the world with no qualifications.

kdak

CDfm wrote: »

kdak-Im just pointing out that you can make plans alright but the world and the benefit system wont nesscessarily see things your way.

I am going to make 2 observations,

One being that he should be getting on the education training ladder now because in 3 or 4 years time he will be starting out with people 4 years his junior and thats a lot of lost ground to make up and he may not find the transition easy.

The next is that she is at home with her parents and like it or not that does affect the benefits she can claim. If she was my child (and I am a Dad) I would agree to everything provided she goes to college.

Not so sure that I would be so happy as the boys parents. Recession ridden country, benefits and grants being cut and my little hero launching himself on the world with no qualifications.

in a way i agree but if hes in education as well, where does their money come from?? hes not entitled to any benefits if hes in education as hes not 23.
shes on a benefit so thats not really an issue right now, its him that needs them.
they sure as hell know that the benefit system doesnt see it their way but i was just asking if there was a way around it as they're really struggling and they're determined not to scam the system but as you said its a recession riddled country so he cant get more work.
and he will get his qualifications in a few years when the mother has hers.
yes its not ideal but they're trying their best and they really dont need people judging them for this.
and im a mum myself (a young one too at that) so i do know where you're coming from with the fact he should get some qualifications but its a case of making the best out of an awkward situation not 'look back at what they should of done cause they're fucked now'.

CDfm

kdak wrote: »

in a way i agree but if hes in education as well, where does their money come from?? hes not entitled to any benefits if hes in education as hes not 23.

The benefit system for her is adequete to cover her and the child.

shes on a benefit so thats not really an issue right now, its him that needs them.

What he needs is training and education or to get into a trade apprenticeship if he can but its not what he wants. Mind you - its not nice being car free.

they sure as hell know that the benefit system doesnt see it their way but i was just asking if there was a way around it as they're really struggling and they're determined not to scam the system but as you said its a recession riddled country so he cant get more work.

THey and especially him need to take a long term view and get it into their heads that now is the time for both of them to get education and training and part time jobs etc and share the childcare. Not luxurious but it can be done.

AS a couple I see no future for them doing what they are doing.

It is do-able but that takes hard decisions including looking at his training and education needs.

When the recession ends or they emigrate or whatever he needs to be ready. Life doesnt look great if he doesnt do that.
and he will get his qualifications in a few years when the mother has hers.
yes its not ideal but they're trying their best and they really dont need people judging them for this.

and im a mum myself (a young one too at that) so i do know where you're coming from with the fact he should get some qualifications but its a case of making the best out of an awkward situation not 'look back at what they should of done cause they're fucked now'.

They are not in a really bad situation and can do loads to improve it. Its just that their priorities are a bit screwed up.They seem to have a sense of entitlement.

I would be questioning why he is not getting educated etc and saying its not thatt significant where they live until the child is 4 or 5 and while they are getting educated. It does matter that he gets out of this low wage trajectory.

Her parents will be biased towards her and it is evident they are already.

Uphill battle for him though.

kdak

i dont really understand where you're coming from with those points.
its adequate to cover her and her child, what about him (food, shelter, transport (whether it be public or not?) if hes in education he'll have no money.
so she goes to college til 6 (not home til half seven) and then bring the child where while she works?? creches are closed after this time. if hes in college/ school he cant take the child. especially if hes working too.
and how are her parents biased? im not saying they're not (of course they are cause its their child) but i dunno why you think that?
their priorities right now are providing for their child while planning a future and i think they're doing a good job at that.

CDfm

As a person and as a parent too I see no future for them or him doing what they are doing.

Its a generalisation to say that in 3 or 4 years time she will have outstripped him academically and may have even outgrown him.He will still be a shelf stacker or pizza delivery boy.

i dont really understand where you're coming from with those points.
its adequate to cover her and her child, what about him (food, shelter, transport (whether it be public or not?) if hes in education he'll have no money.

If I was her parents I would be taking this route as it is best for my daughter in the short and long term. Totally the best solution and it would surprise me if they didnt encourage the solution.A bit mercenary but as the father of a daughter its what I would do.

If I was his parents I would not be at all happy and would prefer to see them living together and him in education & I would probably expect her to be my ally in this as it would be best for them all around either individually or as a couple for the future. No wonder his mother is unhappy as it is probably the worst overall solution for her boy.

so she goes to college til 6 (not home til half seven) and then bring the child where while she works?? creches are closed after this time. if hes in college/ school he cant take the child. especially if hes working too.and how are her parents biased? im not saying they're not (of course they are cause its their child) but i dunno why you think that?

I think her parents are biased because of all the possible solutions the solution is the one that maximizes everything in their daughters favour. Its what I would want for my child(daughter) - thats straight up.

their priorities right now are providing for their child while planning a future and i think they're doing a good job at that.

It is a plan but it is not a practical plan for him. Being straight up if it was my son I would be telling him to wise up and would be questioning things. It is just too unequal and for him as an individual or them as a couple & it wouldnt do it for me.

Cynical maybe but you did ask why.

kdak

ah i get you now! sorry i didnt understand at first,
well he was out of education well before the baby was born and she was in education before and right through the pregnancy so in a way i think its fair that she should continue on with her education and he works if thats what suits their situation best (well it had anyway)
and his mum wasnt very supportive of his education when he was in school which tbh is part of the reason he left in the first place so his mam didnt really have an opinion on the matter.
i do see exactly where you're coming from but at the same time they're both doing exactly what they planned to do before the child came along, but he has just realised that he needs an education to support his child and he intends to get one when the timing is right for the both of them.
and at the end of the day neither of us know how things are behind closed doors, they could be perfectly happy with the arrangement they have.

CDfm

kdak wrote: »

ah i get you now! sorry i didnt understand at first,
well he was out of education well before the baby was born and she was in education before and right through the pregnancy so in a way i think its fair that she should continue on with her education and he works if thats what suits their situation best (well it had anyway)

So it really isnt about whats best for him -its about what is best for her.

and his mum wasnt very supportive of his education when he was in school which tbh is part of the reason he left in the first place so his mam didnt really have an opinion on the matter.

THats exactly why he should be getting in there now -you and I both know the longer he leaves it the least likely he will return to it if ever.

I hope he is not 1 of the 25% that get thru the Irish education system functionally illiterate.

i do see exactly where you're coming from but at the same time they're both doing exactly what they planned to do before the child came along, but he has just realised that he needs an education to support his child and he intends to get one when the timing is right for the both of them.
and at the end of the day neither of us know how things are behind closed doors, they could be perfectly happy with the arrangement they have

But you can see why the D o SW will take the attitude they do. They have seen it all before and dont need a Crystal Ball to see what the future holds.

Its all about short term gain for her. You know that ethically what I and the other posters say is correct but still wont accept it. You just dont have his best interests in mind.

IMHO he is a mug.

kdak

well il let you believe what you want.
i was asking for advice for a friend and no matter how much i explain the situation you're going to be negative about it. which isnt even what i was asking.
it was stupid of me to explain the situation to you because you're obviously just sticking to your judgements and failing the pair of them before they've begun. they're both doing their best in the situation they both chose for themselves and their child.
and i know they are both happy with the situation so im not gonna continue to try prove that to someone who obviously doesnt hold high hopes for them cause its like talking to a brick wall.
thank you for your help though, it is appreciated; but they get enough judgements as young parents from other people they dont need their life critiqued by a stranger.

CDfm

Kdak - I am only being objective. I do understand the answers are not nice but they are truthful.

If there is one thing you should take from this its that in the short term what they have is the best possible solution for her. There is no question about that whatsoever so you can put your mind at rest there.

To achieve that is done at a cost to him which I think is unfair and will affect him and his ability to be a Dad in the long term.

It seems the poor lad has no one on his side and you are his friend.

kdak

well i dont think you're being objective but ok thank you for trying to help and like i said i can kind of see where you're coming from but i dont see how its unfair on him if its what he chose?
he only decided recently that he wanted an education and they decided thats what he'd do when shes finished hers, which i see as fair enough as she was the one who worked hard for hers.
what would be your solution? im genuinely interested. i know you've said some things you'd do but overall what would you say is best?
and i do appreciate your honesty, it just seems you're being very negative.

CDfm

kdak wrote: »

well i dont think you're being objective but ok thank you for trying to help and like i said i can kind of see where you're coming from but i dont see how its unfair on him if its what he chose?
he only decided recently that he wanted an education and they decided thats what he'd do when shes finished hers, which i see as fair enough as she was the one who worked hard for hers.
what would be your solution? im genuinely interested. i know you've said some things you'd do but overall what would you say is best?
and i do appreciate your honesty, it just seems you're being very negative.

I am being very objective and the best route is not always the easy one.
You can kind of see where I am coming from is at least something.

I think you need to just summarise down the situation a bit into the here and now and probably give some detail of his qualifications(any exams passed) if any or career goals.At least that way if she was prepared to be flexible.

There are lots of people on boards that would have lots more experience of this than me.

kdak

shes told him many a time to get an education but he wont have money if he does so hes gonna wait til shes finished. its not her holding him back.
they both feel its only right that if one person has to work while the other studies it should be the one who was continually in education that should study first, which is definitely fair.
hes only got his jc, no leaving cert, he tried fas and didnt like it.
he likes woodwork (and is extremely talented at it) but doesnt want a career in it as it would take the enjoyment out of it. everyone has advised him to try it out but he wont.
i think he wants to do a specified course but he'll need to pay.
i dunno what else to say..!
im sorry for saying you were being judgemental, im slightly blinded by the fact that i know them and know they're happy so i dont see any problems with their situation but you can see it from a different perspective. you just phrase your opinions a bit bluntly!

CDfm

kdak wrote: »

shes told him many a time to get an education but he wont have money if he does so hes gonna wait til shes finished. its not her holding him back.
they both feel its only right that if one person has to work while the other studies it should be the one who was continually in education that should study first, which is definitely fair

It should be both -he needs it more than her ATM.

I would list out everything you put down as excuses by him.

She should be saying if you love me and our child you will do it. In fact- that would be very useful if she genuinly means it.

hes only got his jc, no leaving cert, he tried fas and didnt like it.
he likes woodwork (and is extremely talented at it) but doesnt want a career in it as it would take the enjoyment out of it. everyone has advised him to try it out but he wont.

You do better at stuff you are good at.SAying he doesnt like FAS doesnt cut it. He could do a FAS Course and work at night.

At his age saying he doesnt like a FAS course is like a 3 year old saying he doesnt like his cough bottle.

He doesnt have it academinically so it will be easier for him to do the woodwork course.

i think he wants to do a specified course but he'll need to pay.
i dunno what else to say..!

He doesnt have the money so thats a convenient excuse. You could say do the FAS course.

You are great at repeating his excuses though.

im sorry for saying you were being judgemental, im slightly blinded by the fact that i know them and know they're happy so i dont see any problems with their situation but you can see it from a different perspective. you just phrase your opinions a bit bluntly!

Its reality. Once she got pregnant his life changed.

Putting off education for him is like a girlfriend saying I will wait for you at the prison gates.

I see it from a different perspective as I think people like him are at a disadvantage and it need not be so.

Sometimes you need to be blunt.

kdak

well considering you just think im 'repeating his excuses'il leave it at that.
thanks for your opinions and advice on the matter, il let him know.
and i appreciate your honesty. dont necessarily agree with it but i appreciate it!