N8/N25/N40 - Dunkettle Interchange [under construction]

Jeju

I have not seen any plans for the completed works yet. Will the tunnel still be the only road taking all this traffic west bound? It will work a dream for traffic east bound, barring any accidents in the tunnel should a bridge no be considered to take traffic off straight up the M8.

AugustusMinimus

Jeju wrote: »

I have not seen any plans for the completed works yet. Will the tunnel still be the only road taking all this traffic west bound? It will work a dream for traffic east bound, barring any accidents in the tunnel should a bridge no be considered to take traffic off straight up the M8.

Not entirely sure what you’re trying to say. All major movements are going to be free flow except for M8 South to Tivoli Dual Carriageway.

hans aus dtschl

And pedestrians/cyclists will no longer be free flow either, obviously.

AugustusMinimus

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

And pedestrians/cyclists will no longer be free flow either, obviously.

I have never in my life seen a pedestrian go through this junction.

It is also illegal for a cyclist to use either the tunnel or the M8 arms. Why won’t cyclist be able to use the new junction for other movements?

hans aus dtschl

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

I have never in my life seen a pedestrian go through this junction.

It is also illegal for a cyclist to use either the tunnel or the M8 arms. Why won’t cyclist be able to use the new junction for other movements?

I didn't say that cyclists wouldn't be able to use the new junction, rather that they won't be free flow in the new design.
Since you asked though, in realistic and practical terms, requiring people to cycle on a footpath and cross an unsignalised motorway slip road in order to navigate the new junction will effectively remove cycling from the area as a mode of transport. We've discussed all this at length on here previously. The design is essentially ignorant of pedestrians and cyclists' needs, where it would have been relatively easy to accommodate them in a multitude of different (and cheap) ways.
My personal favourite solution would be the same one employed on the Mahon side of the tunnel: allowing them to use the (existing) road-to-nowhere over the tunnel.

FWIW, I have seen pedestrians on this junction more than once. They've been quickly intercepted by gardai. The lack of accommodation of pedestrians in the original east-west movement was the issue, as some people do attempt to move between Glounthaune and Tivoli areas.

AugustusMinimus

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

I didn't say that cyclists wouldn't be able to use the new junction, rather that they won't be free flow in the new design.
Since you asked though, in realistic and practical terms, requiring people to cycle on a footpath and cross an unsignalised motorway slip road in order to navigate the new junction will effectively remove cycling from the area as a mode of transport. We've discussed all this at length on here previously. The design is essentially ignorant of pedestrians and cyclists' needs, where it would have been relatively easy to accommodate them in a multitude of different (and cheap) ways.
My personal favourite solution would be the same one employed on the Mahon side of the tunnel: allowing them to use the (existing) road-to-nowhere over the tunnel.

FWIW, I have seen pedestrians on this junction more than once. They've been quickly intercepted by gardai. The lack of accommodation of pedestrians in the original east-west movement was the issue, as some people do attempt to move between Glounthaune and Tivoli areas.

The obvious solution is a new greenway from Tivoli which would provide access to both Glounthaune and Little Island. Cyclists and pedestrians should be banned from the N25. Simply too dangerous.

hans aus dtschl

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

The obvious solution is a new greenway from Tivoli which would provide access to both Glounthaune and Little Island. Cyclists and pedestrians should be banned from the N25. Simply too dangerous.

I'm all for that, but two very obvious notes:
1: We need to remove houses from the N25.
2: We need a passable alternate route. It wouldn't necessarily have to be a full greenway (which most people love) but even a shared-use local road. This is done a lot in France and Germany and behaves a little like a greenway that locals can drive on, very slowly and for short dead-end sections.
Some sections of the old Cork-Waterford road (the really old Cork-Waterford road) have this configuration.
It's so much easier to do all this at the overall design phase than retrospectively, and it's low relative cost so there's very little excuse for the poor pedestrian/cyclist design in the interchange upgrade plan.

Edit:
ABP seem to have rejected the original cycle/pedestrian design anyway in the 23-April-2013 conditions, so that's good.

spacetweek

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

We've discussed all this at length on here previously. The design is essentially ignorant of pedestrians and cyclists' needs, where it would have been relatively easy to accommodate them in a multitude of different (and cheap) ways.

No cyclist or pedestrian would ever want to pass through such a sprawling and oppressive interchange anyway.
The old N25 is being reinstated, can't that be used to get through the junction?

AugustusMinimus

spacetweek wrote: »

No cyclist or pedestrian would ever want to pass through such a sprawling and oppressive interchange anyway.
The old N25 is being reinstated, can't that be used to get through the junction?

It will truly be the most fascist of junctions.

hans aus dtschl

spacetweek wrote: »

No cyclist or pedestrian would ever want to pass through such a sprawling and oppressive interchange anyway.
The old N25 is being reinstated, can't that be used to get through the junction?

The old N25 or Old Youghal Road as it maybe was called back then would be a big improvement, but they won't use it. The way they've incorporated it into the new solution still isn't ideal:

Part 8 report here:
http://www.corkcoco.ie/sites/cork-cms/files/2018-01/32107200%20Part%208%20Cycle%20Report%20Rev1.pdf

Drawings here:
http://www.corkcoco.ie/sites/cork-cms/files/2018-01/32107200-CYC-P8-001%20Rev1%20A1.pdf
http://www.corkcoco.ie/sites/cork-cms/files/2018-01/32107200-CYC-P8-002%20Rev1%20A1.pdf
http://www.corkcoco.ie/sites/cork-cms/files/2018-01/32107200-CYC-P8-003%20Rev1%20A1.pdf

There's a nice bit of kerb-hopping, giving way to motorized traffic, shared footpath between cycles and pedestrians, and lots of roundabouts. It's further to traverse as a pedestrian than in a car.

hans aus dtschl

The new design sees a new pedestrian bridge over the railway by North Esk, and lots of new footpaths.

I've contacted them to say that the solution on Glashaboy bridge could be provided at the south of the bridge, linking over the tunnel quite cheaply (mirroring what's in Mahon, basically) for people intending to pass south of the junction to Little Island.

In a much more expensive design, perhaps the new railway pedestrian bridge they've put in at North Esk could be provided further down the Old Youghal road, across both railway and motorway into the back of Eastgate.

As we all say, why not just use the old N25/old Youghal Road alignment?
If you look carefully there's something being planned for that space, in this design. We can't see what that something is, but it's getting its own large roundabout, while none of the side-roads around it do! If this is to be the location of a new park and ride, surely it would only benefit from a greenway type design passing through it.

Live at Three

Why is traffic coming from the Dublin side of Dunkettle so much lighter on Friday mornings?

pigtown

I've given up trying to predict Cork traffic, it seems to be in different spots every day

Truckermal

pigtown wrote: »

I've given up trying to predict Cork traffic, it seems to be in different spots every day

I had a reasonably good run from the Dublin side this morning at 8.30am but then I was stopped in the Tunnel and crawled all the way the Douglas flyover, I don't think the upgrade will benefit west bound traffic unless they sort out the traffic merging from Bloomfield.

Traffic is always quiet on a Friday morning and has been for years.

grogi

Truckermal wrote: »

I had a reasonably good run from the Dublin side this morning at 8.30am but then I was stopped in the Tunnel and crawled all the way the Douglas flyover, I don't think the upgrade will benefit west bound traffic unless they sort out the traffic merging from Bloomfield.

By such logic no upgrade is worth doing because in the end you'll park on the M50...

The upgrade will benefit those exiting to Mahon and N28, won't it?!

pigtown

In the past few weeks the traffic has been at Dunkettle (45mins one morning), the M40, Kinsale Road roundabout, and Togher flyover, but on different days. Can't see a pattern for it though.

Live at Three

Truckermal wrote: »

Traffic is always quiet on a Friday morning and has been for years.

But why?

Carawaystick

Less people work on Fridays. People take long weekends; people on Parental leave take Monday or Friday most often in my experience; people take public transport to have a few pints after work.

Roads are capable of taking traffic until they're not, then it clogs, so reducing traffic by a small fraction, can have dramatic effects on the free flowing nature of the traffic.

CHealy

Huge clearing work ongoing to the North East & East of the roundabout itself, all trees and hedging cleared from the Little Island slip all the way over to the slip off to Burys Bridge. Passed by awhile ago and they had stop/go in operation while they brought down the larger trees.

Pteppic

Bacchus wrote: »

^
This.

Delays through both are reasonable at the moment (2 minutes at Lakeview, 5 minutes as Castlemartyr... when I am typically going through in evening) but if there's an unbroken flow of traffic coming from the South ring and Dunkettle Roundabout I can easily see these becoming even greater bottlenecks. Not to mention how much the queue of traffic taking the first exit for Middleton will back up (due to traffic light system)... likely spilling onto the dual carriageway.

I assume you mean a 2 minute delay at Lakeview going east in the evening. It's much, much worse than that coming from Whitegate or Youghal in the mornings.

Bacchus

Pteppic wrote: »

I assume you mean a 2 minute delay at Lakeview going east in the evening. It's much, much worse than that coming from Whitegate or Youghal in the mornings.

Yes. It's much worse in the morning yes, but that won't be affected by a free flowing dunkettle.

marno21

Bacchus wrote: »

Yes. It's much worse in the morning yes, but that won't be affected by a free flowing dunkettle.

Only difference is that a free flowing Dunkettle may entice further commuters from east of Midleton, but that's outside the scope and is difficult at best to measure.

Bacchus

marno21 wrote: »

Only difference is that a free flowing Dunkettle may entice further commuters from east of Midleton, but that's outside the scope and is difficult at best to measure.

Yeah, there might be a more long term knock on effect in that sense.

AugustusMinimus

Given the distance between Dunkettle and Middleton I don’t think it will have a huge effect on traffic going East on the N25. Certainly the traffic light sequence could be adjusted outside Abernethy’s to reduce any potential tailbacks into the N25.

I still say a third junction should be built for Little Island where the KFC sign is when heading west on the N25. I’d also have another bridge over the N25 linking Little Island to Glounthaune without any N25 access.

The biggest issue on the South Side of the city is that practically every road which crosses the SRR also has a junction in it. This is not a good idea. More junctionless crossings are required.

mydiscworld

So when the Dunkettle upgrade is completed will this mean more traffic queuing on N40 to get to Mahon Point/ City Gate?

That junction is already over capacity, with plans for even more office blocks to be built

marno21

mydiscworld wrote: »

So when the Dunkettle upgrade is completed will this mean more traffic queuing on N40 to get to Mahon Point/ City Gate?

That junction is already over capacity, with plans for even more office blocks to be built

Yes there will be a longer queue on the off ramp of the N40 at the Mahon junction. I wouldn't be surprised if traffic light sequences were adjusted to account for this tho

marno21

Contractor to be appointed for Dunkettle Interchange scheme in June

https://twitter.com/CISireland/status/992338966836850688

Work to begin in full in Q1 2019. Preliminary work will be ongoing during Q4 2018. The scheme will take 3 years or so due to complex traffic management required along the route.

marno21

Tender out for archaelogical works to take place in advance of full works starting in Q1 2019

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase.asp?PID=128832

coL

Anyone any idea of which contractors/consortiums are bidding for this or where to find this info?

DerMutt

The latest email update from Cork County Council:

Dunkettle

As regular commuters will know, the site clearance works at the Dunkettle site have been completed. We have also completed follow on survey works throughout the site. The next step is to investigate the site from an archaeology point of view and resolve any sites uncovered – this archaeological contract will be getting underway shortly and we expect it to reach completion before the end of the summer with no traffic disruption arising.

The tender process for the Main Contract is progressing and we now hope to appoint the Contractor before the end of June 2018. A four-year delivery period is envisaged with details to follow in future updates.