N8/N25/N40 - Dunkettle Interchange [under construction]

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122137106#Comment_122137106

The whole general plan for that area is high density. I'm not sure how many times I'm going to need to write that: they're hoping for a population of >25k and >20k jobs in the area. The main words they keep using in relation to it are "sustainable" and "urban centre".

Also, I fully agree that the city has not got a high enough density now, that is something that all of the people planning aspire to change.

I think you're basically proving my point that any new Eastern Gateway Bridge will be inundated with people wanting it to allow car access if they do it in the near future. What an Eastern Gateway Bridge is absolutely NOT intended to facilitate will be cross-city car journeys, but these would be the primary "winners" if it were built.

niloc1951

I'm in Spain at the moment and their cities are thriving centers of accommodation with small shops and restaurants the support the residents daily needs. All the large retail outlets, commercial and industrial zones are around the outside of the cities.

Public transport is abundant and cheap, €1 or €1.20 wherever you need to go.

It looks like we got it arseways back in the '70s and afterwards when satellite dormitory towns were seen as the way forward. Instead of populating our cities and towns with people we populated them with large retail outlets which now have reduced our city and town centres to inhospitable areas outside of business hours.

The creation of satellite dormitory towns with insufficient public transport interconnectivity have spawned the need for cross city car travel.

Shedite27

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122137700#Comment_122137700

One neighbourhood being "high density" doesn't enable car-free though. You'll have people in there with jobs in Little Island, family in Glanmire, GAA clubs in Midleton, enjoy their open water swimming, all who will need cars at other times of their lives. Building housing for 25,000 people and expecting them to live without cars is fanciful. The most active users (I include myself who cycles 45 mns to work), also need a car to survive life.

If you're expecting 25,000 people to move into that area and live withing 2km, and rely on bikes and public transport for other journeys, that sounds setup to fail

hans aus dtschl

Currently, over 20% of households in Cork City have no car. In a low-density environment (we've already agreed that). With no light rail, poor bus infrastructure, very poor cycle infrastructure, and mediocre pedestrian infrastructure.

I guess they don't have jobs in Little Island, family in Glanmire, enjoy open water swimming etc (I'm obviously being facetious by saying this). But honestly I don't understand whether you're deliberately misunderstanding what I'm saying about cross-city traffic, or just that I haven't explained myself properly. There WILL be car access to the South Docklands urban area. There's no question about this. It just must not be the dominant mode. Putting in a new bridge which will primarily facilitate cars (because buses and light rail will go via Kent) will therefore be a retrograde step. If we make sustainable transport easier than car-based transport then people will use it as their preferred mode. We need to get things TO the city not THROUGH the city, and that Eastern Gateway bridge looks like a bad idea to me.

So my opinion is that I'd prefer to connect cars south of the river to the N27, connect cars North of the river to the N8 and N20, basically. Whereas if we connect the N8 at Tivoli across the river to the Southside, I'm telling you now straight off that I'll use it myself to get in and out of the city. It'll encourage me to drive in.

DylanQuestion

They responded saying essentially the signage is working and will stay as is, including the Cork/City Centre/Limerick situation at Little Island

Mushy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141144#Comment_122141144

Wait till 1 of them get cut across from a car in the left lane realising they've to make the Dublin exit

DylanQuestion

They didn’t actually acknowledge the Dublin sign, just the N25 signs at Little Island. They said it’s too far for drivers to be located into the lanes that align with the N8, and that the Cork part of the sign refers to the entire city (e.g. Douglas, Ballypheane, etc). I’m not too sure what they meant by that when that’s what Westbound is for

AugustusMinimus

in my mind, TII should be held liable for accidents where drivers in the left lane try to take the Dublin slip going north. The signage is completely incorrect and dangerous.

RetroEncabulator

There's something seriously lacking with the signage on the 'dumbbell roundabouts' for City Centre / Cork. I have come in to Cork late in the evening / early AM several times this week and EVERY time there's been a car / camper van looking totally baffled stopping to figure out the signs etc.

I also know several people who've ended up in the the tunnel instead of on the N8 into the city centre down the Lower Glanmire Road.

The signage is fine until you exit the N40 and then the local signage on the overpasses and roundabouts is just inadequate.

RetroEncabulator

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122133124#Comment_122133124

Well, in that case I suppose I we should get a large tax discount. We get absolutely crap public services and abysmal public transport.

If I'm being 'punished' by faceless bureaucrats because NIMBYism of local councillors, I will be voting against all the government TDs next time a general election comes up.

DylanQuestion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122142655#Comment_122142655

I haven’t driven it yet but passing on the air coach, the signage at the southernmost dumbbell looks so confusing. There are signs pointing this lane for westbound that then disappear

niloc1951

I've mentioned this before. Maybe the person responsible for the signs isn't a car driver and has no understanding of the need for signs which give unambiguous information in good time.

Maybe he/she just coasts along cycle lanes on a pushbike.

DylanQuestion

I was on the AirCoach recently and the driver realised what the signs meant last minute, he had almost gone back onto the M8/towards the tunnel

Shedite27

I reckon the issue with the signs starts with the geography of the area and what people understand by it. "Cork" or "City Centre" can mena Tivoli or Tunnel direction for different people. Similarly Westbound can mean Tivoli or Tunnel for different people.

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122148088#Comment_122148088

Yep they might need more granular than "Cork" or "City Centre". The signs coming near the M50 say "City Centre" and "Inchicore" for instance. Maybe we need to have "City Centre" and "Tivoli" together.

I think there's an additional detail though: I think they're trying to also partly trying to send people to the city centre via the N27.

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122146283#Comment_122146283

I know you're joking but just to come at it from the opposite side of the joke: nobody on that project has ever been on a bike!

niloc1951

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122149038#Comment_122149038

Icould agree with that, given the convoluted routing of the cycleways between the city and Little Island.

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122144800#Comment_122144800

Perhaps there needs to be a road safety HIQUA type body, who can assess signs, markings etc and order them sorted if they are not done correctly.

DylanQuestion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122150731#Comment_122150731

And it shouldn't take months of emails to councillors, TII and Cork RDO to get a response of "it's fine, we're leaving it as is"

DylanQuestion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122148088#Comment_122148088

That's why I think Westbound/the tunnel should also have "Cork City (South)", like is done in Galway. Also, "Cork" also excludes Glanmire which is now part of Cork

niloc1951

Local knowledge is a bad thing when designing and signing off on direction signs.

In such multi link interchanges like the Dunkettle Interchange an audit of the effectiveness and unambiguity of all the signage should be carried out by a complete stranger (as a tourist would be) who is not familiar with the area.

chooseusername

A Park and Ride station at Dunkettle, amongst others,

https://www.rte.ie/news/munster/2024/0524/1450928-rail-stations-cork/

veryangryman

Is this still under construction or does the thread title need an update?

cantalach

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122188479#Comment_122188479

There are still a lot of cones, and yesterday morning there were workers doing stuff behind the crash barrier on the tunnel-to-Tivoli slip. So I think it’s not done yet.