Should the Luas Red Line be closed?

paulm17781

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Something most people don't understand.

Yeah, it annoys me when I see people giving beggars money. The ones at the Luas stops (even the green line) are particularly annoying. I was getting the Luas one time and a chap I see every morning comes up and starts "helping" my friend with the machine. My friend cut him mid sentence saying, "I'm not giving you money" and the guy changes tact, with a smile a says something like "Aw you've heard that one before?". My mate took his ticket, change and walked off but most people wouldn't be as stubborn as this friend is. What got me is he said no so they guy tries a different method of "We're mates. Now can I have some money?"

Cuddlesworth

paulm17781 wrote: »

Yeah, it annoys me when I see people giving beggars money. The ones at the Luas stops (even the green line) are particularly annoying. I was getting the Luas one time and a chap I see every morning comes up and starts "helping" my friend with the machine. My friend cut him mid sentence saying, "I'm not giving you money" and the guy changes tact, with a smile a says something like "Aw you've heard that one before?". My mate took his ticket, change and walked off but most people wouldn't be as stubborn as this friend is. What got me is he said no so they guy tries a different method of "We're mates. Now can I have some money?"

Best I ever saw was a little old lady with shopping bags beside trinity. I've seen her clear about 30-40 Euros in twenty minutes.

dsane1

Why dont our gardai patrol our transport system on a regular basis ,getting on and travelling a few stops .The same with the buses . I dont think we need transport police but our public transport seems to be a haven for lawlessness at the moment.

positron

More policing for the short term with severe model punishment. Use CCTV footage as evidence, get undercover Garda on trams, catch these thugs on the act, get them thru a faster special court system within days, and ship them off to some desert nation for 2 years of social service - work for food - that will teach them and rest of their "mates".

DWCommuter

Our public transport system has been a consistant haven for lawlessness for over 30 years. Could be longer, but thats the range for my lifetime experiences.

In the 70s, I remember trouble on the 22/23 and 40 bus routes. Stonings and attacks on board. Day time and night time. The CIE mystery train excursions were halted due to trouble on board trains.

In the 80s I remember similar incidents on the 51 and 78/9 routes. The DART has long been a venue for random criminal acts and now the luas has joined the party.

Public transport violence is just another part of an out of control society. A society that "do gooders" and ignorant middle/upper class law makers/enforcers have happily steered down a path of tolerance, combined with a jaded justice system and all in the name of "human rights". Its very easy to be fair and tolerant if you are shielded from the everyday experiences that terrify innocent people. Even today on Liveline the story has moved on to how people in certains areas of the country are being terrorised in their homes. I was until quite recently a fan of the transport police method, but we should really get the existing justice system up to scratch first. The law enforcement mechanics of this country are divided in two. Revenue collection through traffic and related fines and serious crimes such as murder/manslaughter investigations. The gap in the middle is a lawless no mans land filled with frightened citizens, a lack of justice, renegade scumbags and state apathy.

The poll is daft, but the discussion is good.

KevR

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Something most people don't understand.

Have seen signs up on public transport in the UK asking people not to encourage begging on the network by giving money. It's part of them signs which ask people not to talk loudly on phones, listen to loud music on their MP3s...etc with fellow passengers in mind.

I'm sure there are probably similar signs on transport in Dublin saying not to play loud music and stuff like that. These signs should include something about not encouraging begging as a courtesy to fellow passengers.

paulm17781

A friend of mine was mugged on the DART (between Sydney parade and Killiney) one evening in about 94 / 95. It was roughly 18.00 when this happened and no one did anything. He was physically attacked and no one did a thing about it. He would have been 13 / 14 / 15 and they were roughly the same age. Sad state of affairs really.

helimachoptor

I've seen far worse acts of thuggery on the Dart going southside than I have on the Red Line.

paulm17781

helimachoptor wrote: »

I've seen far worse acts of thuggery on the Dart going southside than I have on the Red Line.

There are scarier sorts on Luas red (IMO) but the DART has it's long carriages with no human presence and further between stops. I'd say it's easier to get away with stuff on it that it is on Luas.

monkeyfudge

I recently left a Digital SLR camera worth about €600 on the Luas. I got out at the Red Cow stop and noticed I'd left it on there.

Had a friend at the Square in Tallaght who I rang, he went and found the Luas at the terminus where a nice person was handing my camera into the driver.

So it's not all Luas horror stories.

helimachoptor

paulm17781 wrote: »

There are scarier sorts on Luas red (IMO) but the DART has it's long carriages with no human presence and further between stops. I'd say it's easier to get away with stuff on it that it is on Luas.

Would agree 100%, I think evening Darts should have less carriages same could be said for the Luas too I suppose.

D'Peoples Voice

helimachoptor wrote: »

Would agree 100%, I think evening Darts should have less carriages same could be said for the Luas too I suppose.

that comment brings back memories of a conversation I had with a moody Taxi Driver in 1999 or thereabouts.
Anyway he was complaining that the luas should be going underground, and i was saying that many women in particular were complaining that their safety would be threatened from the thugs that would hang around the stations underground.
He belief was that we should NOT be planning our transport policy around thugs but around the hard-working citizens of this country!
Certainly its a point to think about!

Judgement Day

I raised this point on a different thread - if thuggery is this bad on the DART and Luas can you imagine the nightmarish scenario that might occur on the Interconnector? :mad:

CiaranC

dsane1 wrote: »

Why dont our gardai patrol our transport system on a regular basis ,getting on and travelling a few stops .The same with the buses . I dont think we need transport police but our public transport seems to be a haven for lawlessness at the moment.

I cant believe you are the first person to say this.

There are antisocial elements all over the red line. Everyone knows it. Do the Garda know it? Of course they do.

What do they do about it? **** all. They are too busy driving around affluent areas waving at the middle class from their squadcars.

DWCommuter

CiaranC wrote: »

They are too busy driving around affluent areas waving at the middle class from their squadcars.

Or setting up check points to catch motorists out on all sorts of cash cow offences. I don't blame the rank and file. The problem lies somewhere higher with the people who created a society where drivers are scared ****less if their motor tax is out of date, a man can face jail for non-payment of a few weeks child maintenence, while a jumped up toerag can pop onto a train, tram, bus or even into a taxi and create havoc.

PCPhoto

like all of these threads ... a topic is started and eventually turns out to be a blaming game.....its the gardai fault, its the luas peoples fault, its the judges fault, its the politicians fault, its the fault of people giving beggers money !!! (honestly is there anyone who isnt to blame) ....oh i forgot its the scumbags/junkies fault.

Everyone agrees that our entire system needs to be changed - but the people in power seem to ignore the problems (or are actually in their own world and cant see the REAL issues)

In my opinion (and I'm sure others will agree) people that consistantly break the law should be punished properly - why not introduce a sliding scale the greater the number of offences the longer the sentence (of course also sentences reflective of seriousness of the crime)

Personally I'd like to sterilise (constant) repeat offenders - if they are completely ignorant of "normal" society they do not deserve to stain society with their offspring, we would possibly halve the amount of money given out to "spongers"

Why should someone have civil rights when they dont behave civil !!! (or human rights when they dont behave like a human)

bk

CiaranC wrote: »

What do they do about it? **** all. They are too busy driving around affluent areas waving at the middle class from their squadcars.

The strange thing is public transport is the one place that middle class people regularly come into contact with scum, so you would think that it would be in the Gardai's interest to actively police public transport in order to give the impression of law and order.

dowlingm

Are there designated waiting areas on DART? On the Toronto subway, there are specific spots which line up with where the train guard who controls the doors sits. They are lit up more than the rest of the platform, have a seat and an intercom to get assistance.
http://www3.ttc.ca/Riding_the_TTC/Safety_and_Security/Security_features.jsp

Irish and Proud

darkman2 wrote: »

I knew, as soon as the route was unvieled, I knew the problems were coming. Anti social behaviour and just out and out thuggery is rampant on the Luas red line (anybody supprised listening to the Joe Duffy show today? Anyone at all?) - proving what I already knew - you cannot give those people anything in those areas because they make a sh*t of it....and I expect some lefties to say "it's not everyone" etc etc bleeding hearts........it's a larger proportion of people then in other areas that could have been served just because of the areas it goes through....now it's like a national humiliation with tourists and everything being subjected to the worst in scumbag behaviour - and that's the sober ones - what about the drunks and the junkies? Embarrassing - take it away. Put it through areas that are somewhat civilised (I know they are rare in Dublin but still) :mad: Or better take away all the free transport etc for scumbags and junkies.

I voted no - while there seem to be serious problems on the red line, to close it would simply be a cop out - after all, it's not the LUAS that's the problem, it's the few who like causing trouble - if it's not the LUAS, it will be something else...

...in short, it's the culprits that need dealing with - not the LUAS!

Regards!

DSB

DWCommuter wrote: »

a man can face jail for non-payment of a few weeks child maintenence

Yeah you're right, what a travesty. How dare they:rolleyes:

Nostradamus

There were scumbags on public transport long before the Luas Red Line.

DWCommuter

DSB wrote: »

Yeah you're right, what a travesty. How dare they:rolleyes:

I was merely highlighting examples of various and vigorously enforced laws/offenses in comparison to the often violent crimes committed against people on public transport. But as you zoned in on the above quote, I suggest you bring the chip on your shoulder elsewhere unless you can relate it to transport issues.

Euro_Kraut

DWCommuter wrote: »

The gap in the middle is a lawless no mans land filled with frightened citizens, a lack of justice, renegade scumbags and state apathy.

The Liveline hysteria has worked it magic again. Duffy make his living from talking up problems. Fortunately the country is not nearly in the State that his propaganda would lead you to believe.


I have traveled the Red line for a few years now. Same characters that you get in most parts of Dublin. No harm that we are occasionally confronted with the social problems we have created.

DWCommuter

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

The Liveline hysteria has worked it magic again. Duffy make his living from talking up problems. Fortunately the country is not nearly in the State that his propaganda would lead you to believe.


I have traveled the Red line for a few years now. Same characters that you get in most parts of Dublin. No harm that we are occasionally confronted with the social problems we have created.

I merely referenced Liveline. Everything else is from my own personal experience and quite broad in content. (not limited to the luas red line)

The country is perhaps in a worse state than you believe or recognise. With respect to your opinion, shows like Liveline are just outlets that often get abused by exaggeration. But I assure you many of the topics covered are real and exist. Using the red line problems as an example, the "we" that created them should not be seen as collective, because many of us would happily see anti-social/violent/threatening behaviour punished by strong measures.

I have lived and worked in some of the toughest areas of Dublin. I don't depend on Joe Duffy or anyone else in the media to form an opinion.

Judgement Day

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

The Liveline hysteria has worked it magic again. Duffy make his living from talking up problems. Fortunately the country is not nearly in the State that his propaganda would lead you to believe.


I have traveled the Red line for a few years now. Same characters that you get in most parts of Dublin. No harm that we are occasionally confronted with the social problems we have created.

Nothing like being in denial is there? By burying your head in the sand like an ostrich won't make the problems go away and it wasn't Joe Duffy who did the Luas programme but his woeful stand-in, Damien O'Reilly!

Liveline is one of the few serious investigative programmes on RTE and really gets to the heart of things and we could do with a lot more like it. Complacent, over paid, twats like Pat Kenny bear a high degree of responsibilty for the state of things in the country when they could have asked the hard questions but didn't, preferring the brown nose approach instead.

What on earth does your statement 'No harm that we are occasionally confronted with the social problems we have created' mean? No, on second thoughts don't bother trying to explain that one. :mad:

Irish and Proud

Nostradamus wrote: »

There were scumbags on public transport long before the Luas Red Line.

...off topic:

you're dead right about Lisbon - I, as sure as hell, will be voting NO!

...on topic:

...and it's the scumbags who are the problem - and I voted NO! - long live the LUAS!

Regards!

Brian Capture

helimachoptor wrote: »

I've seen far worse acts of thuggery on the Dart going southside than I have on the Red Line.

inverse snobbery / middle class self-loathing

carlmango11

Yeah, close it down, and all the buses cos sometimes there's knackers on buses.

and the Dart, there's bound to be "thuggery" on it too.

Lets all just drive our safe, happy, expensive cars everywhere.

Screw Transport 21.


Hurray for you DWCommuter, you rock my world.

Run_to_da_hills

Ticket vending machines at luas stops are a magnet for scammer.

Slice

Wow, I've never seen so many Irish Daily Mail readers congregate in one place as I have on this thread