All TV channels missing, but radio is fine - any ideas?

STB

A position I had emphasised earlier in this thread. It would seem clear to me what the root of the problem is, also be aware one Eu designated fix for standards is a immediate fix OTA.

What you must be aware of is that Pani reps have been advocating that they have been following a special UK version of the standard.

This of course is nonsense. I would imagine that technical supports representation of the company should perhaps be brought to the attention of pani Europe and then the parent company in parallel.

Potential untold damage to brand name in my opinion....

watty

It looks like Panasonic messed up but hiding behind the old "grey import" / "Wrong Market" Mantra.

It's perfectly acceptable to make a set for one market (though a bit silly), but you can't then claim compliance you haven't got. That's a defect or false advertising depending on where it has arisen.

skycatcher

Not sure if will do any good but I have raised this issue with BBC NI "on your behalf" consumer radio program. Whether the BBC will care that some of us cant get rte digital is another matter! Do RTE have such a consumer prog?

GadgetGeek

keithoh wrote:

The data attached is for the Mt. Leinster transmissions from a TH46PZ81B

Unzip the file and copy the contents onto a SD card and insert into a PZ81B TV

Use password 4851 when prompted

Attachment 80690

GadgetGeek wrote: »

Any data for the Spur hill CH 45 transmissions for a TH42PZ81B?

Can anyone help me with a data file for Spur Hill Ch 45 or Mullaghanish Ch21 for a Panasonic PZ LZ or can anyone advise if there is a way to edit keithoh's "Mt. Leinster" file.

netwhizkid

Apogee wrote: »

The new Panasonic Irish G10L models correctly scan the channels as reported in this thread. I would imagine that it's highly likely that the UK Freesat G10B series will also scan the channels correctly, but still awaiting cofirmation on that.

I got the Panasonic TX-L32G10L today as a replacement to my TX-32LZ80L and I had a very favourable outcome to the Panny/DTT debacle that I wrote about there. The Soundstore took back the TX-32LZ80L and replaced with the TX-L32G10L at the same price of €700 when the TX-L32G10L RRP is €1000. I also get a free 5 year guarantee from Panasonic as part of a promotion they are running until the end of June.

When I was into the Soundstore there today they had the TV's with DVB and MPEG4 capabilities labels with "Digital Tuner for RTE1, RTE2, TV3, TG4" and I applaud them highly for it as now whether you are a tech head of slack jawed yokel you will at least know what you are buying and it seems as the retailers will have to do this considering there is no peep from either the BCI, RTE or DCENR on this and when it launches proper there will be alot of angry tv owners who paid big money only to be not DTT ready.

I can also confirm that I have DTT working (almost)* from Mullaghanish and it is tuning in and decoding the MPEG4 picture fine. It bizarrely marks it as Pay tv though, which is I suppose accurate as Panasonic are clearly taking the licence fee into account

*My signal at home is pure crap but this is because I have old low gain aerial not even pointing at Mullaghanish and a low gain amplifier and I get the exact same results with my DTT Receiver at my home location. When I get a new aerial and a proper high gain amplifier it will work fine but at the moment it is highly pixalated and not watchable but the TV has proven it is capable and this was my main concern and it passed in flying colours. DTT does not Auto tune when the TV is first set-up either and must be done after words again no biggy! I am highly impressed with the TV and rigged it up to the Sky+ HD and could not leave the seat as I was clued to BBC HD's South Pacific programme, it was as if I was really swimming with the whales:rolleyes:

Well impressed I am!

slegs

netwhizkid wrote: »

I can also confirm that I have DTT working (almost)* from Mullaghanish and it is tuning in and decoding the MPEG4 picture fine. It bizarrely marks it as Pay tv though, which is I suppose accurate as Panasonic are clearly taking the licence fee into account

This is a setting being broadcast somehow by RTENL as the MVision also marks the channels as Pay TV.

Charlie-Bravo

netwhizkid wrote: »

It bizarrely marks it as Pay tv though, which is I suppose accurate as Panasonic are clearly taking the licence fee into account

Now, I am thinking this whole problem through, and now considering Panny's email as posted above, is there a work around for the problem.

I have been thinking about this 'Pay TV' item. If you were to go for pay TV, be it Sat or DTT, you would stick in a CAM and viewing card in the CI slot. Now, would a CAM and a viewing card unlock the whole problem in this instance?

Or is it still purely a problem with the Panny LZD81/PZ81's that they'll never be able to pick up a 0x16 Advanced TV broadcast?

GadgetGeek

GadgetGeek wrote: »

[/i]



Can anyone help me with a data file for Spur Hill Ch 45 or Mullaghanish Ch21 for a Panasonic PZ LZ or can anyone advise if there is a way to edit keithoh's "Mt. Leinster" file.

If anyone in the Cork City area has a PZ81B and hasn't lost the DTT channels, can you post the data for Spur Hill or Mullaghanish. If your not sure how just contact me by private message.

It would be much appreciated as I have run out of ideas.

As suggested in previous messages we should get a data base for different transmitters and TV's, at least till Panasonic "step up to the plate" with a firmware fix for it's customer base over here (assuming they are concerned with customer loyalty).

Apogee

astrofluff wrote: »

I have been thinking about this 'Pay TV' item. If you were to go for pay TV, be it Sat or DTT, you would stick in a CAM and viewing card in the CI slot. Now, would a CAM and a viewing card unlock the whole problem in this instance?

Or is it still purely a problem with the Panny LZD81/PZ81's that they'll never be able to pick up a 0x16 Advanced TV broadcast?

The encryption flag is a related yet separate issue from the advanced codec flag.

RTÉNL are transmitting the channels with the encrypted flag turned to 'on' despite the fact the channels are actually unencrypted. The G10, along with other TVs and receivers, see the 'on' flag and assume the channels are encrypted. Some receivers may even blank the screen. One reason why RTÉNL might be turning on the encrypted flag is to facilitate TVs with MPEG2 hardware - the encypted flag allows those people to route the stream through a Neotion CAM for "decryption" i.e. conversion from MPEG4->MPEG2.

However, this approach is useless with the PZ81s as they never store the channels to begin with, so the use of the Neotion CAM never arises.

Solutions for the PZ81Bs:
1) Continue uploading the channel paramters by USB and hope and pray RTÉNL don't change the PIDs.
2) Get Panasonic to issue a channel editor
3) Get Panasonic to fix the firmware and make it DVB compliant like the G10
4) Get Panasonic to replace your PZ81 with a G10

maxg

astrofluff wrote: »

Now, I am thinking this whole problem through, and now considering Panny's email as posted above, is there a work around for the problem.

I have been thinking about this 'Pay TV' item. If you were to go for pay TV, be it Sat or DTT, you would stick in a CAM and viewing card in the CI slot. Now, would a CAM and a viewing card unlock the whole problem in this instance?

Or is it still purely a problem with the Panny LZD81/PZ81's that they'll never be able to pick up a 0x16 Advanced TV broadcast?

The problem is still the channel scan procedure which is not willing to store channels with service type 0x16. If you cannnot select a channel from the channel list it doesn't matter if the channel is scrambeled or not or if the channel is paytv or not or if the channel is flagged as scrambled but being broadcast free to the air.

maxg

@Apogee
I guess the G10B has the same problems like the PZ81B/LZD81B series.
Only the G10L without freesat for the irish market got the right DVB compliant behavior.

Apogee

Yes, only the G10L confirmed as OK so far, although I have a hunch that the G10B might be OK too - still waiting for someone to report back.

Charlie-Bravo

Apogee wrote: »

Solutions for the PZ81Bs:
1) Continue uploading the channel paramters by USB and hope and pray RTÉNL don't change the PIDs.
2) Get Panasonic to issue a channel editor
3) Get Panasonic to fix the firmware and make it DVB compliant like the G10
4) Get Panasonic to replace your PZ81 with a G10

Thanks Apogee,

I feel even the most technical of us won't be able to keep up with the changes RTE may make, be it locations of transmitters, service type etc. it would still snooker so many LZD/PZ owners.

I don't think Point 2 is really feasible...not all PZ81/LZD81 owners will be technically proficient to do this even though it would make sense to offer some sort of solution.

Point 3 - This is what everyone wants - The definitive solution.

Point 4 - Not all of us will be successful but if you don't ask....etc.

TheDriver

I am lost, I have a z81 and my dtt is working fine altogether, channels coming up all clear?

watty

Only 3 & 4 are viable.

1 & 2 are useless.

Charlie-Bravo

ssshush, I rang the TV retailer today and also Panasonic in the UK.

TV retailer says until RTE confirm what they are doing re: transmission type, then they can't get onto Panasonic and press for them to make a firmware/software adjustment.

For an alternative option the retailer will perhaps consider a trade-in - not a swop! Didn't get down to details about that.

Panasonic just washed their hands of the problem telling me to complain to the Retailer for selling me a TV that doesn't do what I they told me it could do (work in the republic). I know it works with RTE, its just a bloody DVB settings change!

Panasonic do however say the following TV's should work G10L, V10L and G15L. Sure, they were short of giving me phone numbers of where to buy one!

TheDriver

Hi Lads,
Mullaghanish file attached for anyone, thanks to Derek for letting me know how to do this.

netwhizkid

Threw up an new aerial today with new masthead amp and got all the channels in with spectacular quality. My Panny handled them lovely but does not appear to support the MHEG5 Interactive "new" Aertel and in my very rushed and limited test of it the EPG also appears to be Now and Next but if I change country in setup this should change I think. It handles "old" Aertel perfectly and loads it very fast. Well impressed with it and I must now mount the Aerial properly and get a new powersupply for the mast head amp as the one I got today had only 2 output feeds when I need 5. All going well with DTT and Mullaghanish on my side anyway.

psham

How do i go about saving the settings i have on my PZ81( which are for ciarnhill and still work) so i can post them here..?

Just realised my wife did a rescan.. Damn it..

GadgetGeek

psham wrote: »

How do i go about saving the settings i have on my PZ81( which are for ciarnhill and still work) so i can post them here..?

Just realised my wife did a rescan.. Damn it..

For future reference:

The way to backup the files:
1. Down load a copy of keithoh file (Attachment 80690) (Mt. Leinster TH46PZ81B).
2. Delete the hotel_setup folder and keep the hotel.pwd
3. Format a SD card, put the hotel.pwd on the SD card.
4. Put the SD card into the TV.
5. TV says Data copy (Hotel) Input password
6. Enter 4850
7. Data is backed up

To restore re-enter card and enter 4851

If anyone in the Cork / Kerry area has a PZ81B and hasn't lost the DTT channels, can you post the data for Spur Hill or Mullaghanish.

maxg

astrofluff wrote: »

ssshush, I rang the TV retailer today and also Panasonic in the UK.

TV retailer says until RTE confirm what they are doing re: transmission type, then they can't get onto Panasonic and press for them to make a firmware/software adjustment.

For an alternative option the retailer will perhaps consider a trade-in - not a swop! Didn't get down to details about that.

Panasonic just washed their hands of the problem telling me to complain to the Retailer for selling me a TV that doesn't do what I they told me it could do (work in the republic). I know it works with RTE, its just a bloody DVB settings change!

Panasonic do however say the following TV's should work G10L, V10L and G15L. Sure, they were short of giving me phone numbers of where to buy one!

You should tell the panasonic staff to check the last page of the owners manual and mention the declaration of conformity to the dvb standards.
Marketing blurb doesn't count. The written word is that was count.

Ninjakettle

psham wrote: »

How do i go about saving the settings i have on my PZ81( which are for ciarnhill and still work) so i can post them here..?

Just realised my wife did a rescan.. Damn it..

Noooo - got all excited for a sec. If anyone else has Cairn Hill - i'd be very grateful if you would go to the trouble of saving and uploading the files.

TheDriver

the opposite could occur of course, that RTE might change again their settings unless we have other info on that.
I am confused though, how come the z81 can pick up the channels if a rescan hasn't been done? It seems it can decode them IF it can find them which is the issue.

pinarout

maxg wrote: »

You should tell the panasonic staff to check the last page of the owners manual and mention the declaration of conformity to the dvb standards.
Marketing blurb doesn't count. The written word is that was count.

I have this on good authority:

The LZD81 and PZ81 TVs will NOT be updated to work with RTE test signals. Even if Panasonic did launch firmware to enable these TVs to be marketed in ROI (thus violating their licensing agreement with Freesat) then whos to say that RTE would not change their specification again 6 months down the line?

You are wasting your time trying to get a major company to change the specification of a product to work with a foreign system that hasnt even been finalised yet.

According to your logic of DVB conformity, any DVB box should be able to pick up RTE test signals!! Go to tesco, buy a £7 DVB box and try that with the RTE test signals, then moan to Technika or whatever the manufacturer is called that its not DVB compliant!!!

watty

Everyone is wasting their time until RTE publicly launches the Mux officially.


If RTE listened to *SOME* folks here they would be swapping to DVB-T2 and then even USB sticks won't work no matter what updated SW you get.

maxg

pinarout wrote: »

I have this on good authority:

The LZD81 and PZ81 TVs will NOT be updated to work with RTE test signals. Even if Panasonic did launch firmware to enable these TVs to be marketed in ROI (thus violating their licensing agreement with Freesat) then whos to say that RTE would not change their specification again 6 months down the line?

You are wasting your time trying to get a major company to change the specification of a product to work with a foreign system that hasnt even been finalised yet.

According to your logic of DVB conformity, any DVB box should be able to pick up RTE test signals!! Go to tesco, buy a £7 DVB box and try that with the RTE test signals, then moan to Technika or whatever the manufacturer is called that its not DVB compliant!!!

You should get your facts right.
A tesco box for 7 quid has no mpeg4 decoder on board.
The LZD81 and PZ81 series have an combined mpeg2/mpeg4 decoder on board and are able to handle an mpeg4 compressed video stream. The tuner has nothing to do with mpeg decoding.
The problem is the channel scan for dvb-t (freeview) at the panasonics is not willing to accept a simple setting in the data of the rte broadcast.
RTE didn't invent that setting. Its well defined in the dvb standards and Panasonic promised to follow the dvb standards. Ignoring one simple byte at the data stream means Panasonic declared false DVB conformity.

pinarout

maxg wrote: »

You should get your facts right.
A tesco box for 7 quid has no mpeg4 decoder on board.
The LZD81 and PZ81 series have an combined mpeg2/mpeg4 decoder on board and are able to handle an mpeg4 compressed video stream. The tuner has nothing to do with mpeg decoding.
The problem is the channel scan for dvb-t (freeview) at the panasonics is not willing to accept a simple setting in the data of the rte broadcast.
RTE didn't invent that setting. Its well defined in the dvb standards and Panasonic promised to follow the dvb standards. Ignoring one simple byte at the data stream means Panasonic declared false DVB conformity.

You find a peice of legislation that says every DVB box should decode MPEG 4 encoded video off air. Just because the TV can decode MPEG 4 via Freesat doesnt mean it has to be able to do it out of the box via the DVB-T side

The TVs will have been designed many moons ago, BEFORE RTE were using mpeg 4; indeed they were initially using MPEG 2 TEST SIGNALS

SRB

pinarout wrote: »

You find a peice of legislation that says every DVB box should decode MPEG 4 encoded video off air. Just because the TV can decode MPEG 4 via Freesat doesnt mean it has to be able to do it out of the box via the DVB-T side

The TVs will have been designed many moons ago, BEFORE RTE were using mpeg 4; indeed they were initially using MPEG 2 TEST SIGNALS

We're not talking about every box, we're talking about a Television which claims to be compliant with a standard, which actually does state it should work with these transmissions "out of the box". RTE haven't dabbled in MPEG2 in years, the Trial which ended last August wasn't theirs. The transmissions which RTE NL commenced have always been MPEG 4. The televisions mentioned worked perfectly with the MPEG 4 Video for over 6 months, in fact anyone who didn't rescan after the descriptor change, can still view the channels.

pinarout

the issue is this:

the tv makes no claims to work with dvb-T MPEG 4 transmissions. end of story

STB

DVB compliance are the key words here.

Receivers and IDTVs must meet certain standards (ie DVB standards)
We'll concentrate on these....

* ISO/IEC 13818-1 (aka "MPEG: Systems") "GENERIC CODING OF MOVING PICTURES AND ASSOCIATED AUDIO: SYSTEMS" ISO / Motion Picture Experts Group
* ETSI EN 300 468 "Digital Video Broadcasting (DVB); Specification for Service Information (SI) in DVB systems" ETSI / EBU (DVB group)
* "Digital Terrestrial Television: Requirements for Interoperability" Issue 4.0+ (aka "The D book") UK Digital Television Group
* ETSI TS 102 323 Technical Specification: "Digital Video Broadcasting (DVB); Carriage and signalling of TV-Anytime information in DVB transport streams" ETSI / EBU (DVB group)

ETSI EN 300 468 is the main one that Pani claim conformity with and it is the important one that dictates that the service types are defined. It is also the one causing the problems.

If all the service types were defined there would be no issue but they werent for the DVB-T tuner in this TV series - it would seem that only one was.

And by the way the same processor chip will decode both DVB-T and DVB-S. It is a freesat "HD" box, plays AVC-HD files. There is only one processor on board that decodes the mpeg4 transmissions and also plays back the AVC-HD content from a SD card. And the Pani series did receive the transmission when RTE broadcast initially in MPEG4 with the stream service type defined as "digital television service" . The reason it doesnt work now is because the rest of the service types were not defined in the firmware (ie the rest of the 8-bit fields specifying the type of the service being broadcast). Some might call it cutting corners.

Go back to your authority and tell em that.