Garda Regional Support Units -Success??

shakin

At the time of the launch of this there was some questions about its roe and use, but watch the news since its introduction itseems to be more and more prevalent. The recent bringong to court of roy collins's suspected murderer was the latest http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0416/collinsr.html
So has the rsu been a success it seems to me ( a civilian) that before a suspect would be brought before the courts under armed detective escort, now it seems rsu have assumed that role so is it correct that detectives time has been freed up from the courts protection to do their detective work?
What has members who have worked with them thught so far?

Turner

They have tazed alot of violent and armed people bringing very dangerous situations to an end. This less lethal force i think may have actually saved gougers lives.

As well as that the more serious criminals gangs (bank robbers, aggrevated burglars and ram raiding traveller gangs) know that if they do come in contact with the RSU and and they do not drop their weapons they will actually get shot.

They had it handy doing ram raids in the countryside of limerick and north cork in a stolen volvo or high powered audi with 5 lads on board. If they did meet the local patrol car they would simply ram them and try and attack the two unarmed gardai with baseball bats and sledge hammers. Now if they hear on their scanners the RSU are involved they know to get the hell out of dodge.

The RSU like the ERU or OCU would be more than happy to leave some coked up high class criminal dead on the ground with a loaded glock still in his hand.

TheNog

I havent worked with the RSU but I voted Yes cos I like the idea of their set-up. I just hope that when they are nationwide there are enough deployed

donvito99

I voted yes because it means that when(if) all thirty units are rolled out across the country, it means that there's a highly trained, well equiped unit to complement other gardai on the beat.

Outkast_IRE

Im down in cork and there are some new garda jeep type vehicles with the new lights on the roof . My friends are under the impression that the gardai who take out these vehicles are armed units , like they are always armed response or somethin?
Is this the case are the units in these new jeeps with lights armed

Turner

If these are the jeeps, yes they are armed.

They are only in Cork Limerick waterford and kerry afaik



The red bit inbetween the lights says armed support unit.

By the way most gardai in unmarked cars if they are in plain clothes are armed also, but they have to keep their guns hidden under a shirt or suit jacket. You will never see the weapons.

Here they are pictured on the square in templemore for a press photo shoot.

For so long bank robbers have been drawing their weapons on unarmed gardai and getting away. Pull them on these guys and I hope you have your will made.

easyeason3

I was wondering what the story was with these.
I was driving one day & the new cop car passed me & the red light had Peugeot written on it, there was a peugeot 206 in front of it.
Why is the make of the car in writing on the sign?

eroo

They a very high profile presence here in Limerick. Whether it's public order or armed checkpoints, they are having an effect.

eroo

Chief--- wrote: »

If these are the jeeps, yes they are armed.

They are only in Cork Limerick waterford and kerry afaik

I thought it was just Cork and Limerick?

Hooch

Chief--- wrote: »

If these are the jeeps, yes they are armed.

They are only in Cork Limerick waterford and kerry afaik


By the way most gardai in unmarked cars if they are in plain clothes are armed also, but they have to keep their guns hidden under a shirt or suit jacket. You will never see the weapons.

They RSU at present are based in Cork and Limerick. There area of operations is Cork City, Cork North, Cork West, Limerick and Kerry (Southern Garda Region), Waterford is not part of the southern region.

Clada always wears a size too small to show his weapon:p:D:D:D

easyeason3 wrote: »

I was wondering what the story was with these.
I was driving one day & the new cop car passed me & the red light had Peugeot written on it, there was a peugeot 206 in front of it.
Why is the make of the car in writing on the sign?

I have no idea what your saying. The LED bar has several preprogrammed scrolling messages which include AGS, Armed Response Unit, Stop, etc (all in Irish also)

eroo wrote: »

I thought it was just Cork and Limerick?

Kerry also, above dude!

the locust

Even if they haven't intervened in many incidents - You can't measure what RSU or even the member out on the beat etc... are preventing, RSU is a massive deterent to armed criminals

easyeason3

nice guy always wrote: »

They RSU at present are based in Cork and Limerick. There area of operations is Cork City, Cork North, Cork West, Limerick and Kerry (Southern Garda Region), Waterford is not part of the southern region.

Clada always wears a size too small to show his weapon:p:D:D:D



I have no idea what your saying. The LED bar has several preprogrammed scrolling messages which include AGS, Armed Response Unit, Stop, etc (all in Irish also)



Kerry also, above dude!

Ah right. I won't embarrass myself so by explaining my theory on it!

eroo

nice guy always wrote: »

They RSU at present are based in Cork and Limerick. There area of operations is Cork City, Cork North, Cork West, Limerick and Kerry (Southern Garda Region), Waterford is not part of the southern region.

Clada always wears a size too small to show his weapon:p:D:D:D



I have no idea what your saying. The LED bar has several preprogrammed scrolling messages which include AGS, Armed Response Unit, Stop, etc (all in Irish also)



Kerry also, above dude!

I'm surprised they are in Kerry? Suppose someone has to tackle the sheep gangs..

eroo

easyeason3 wrote: »

Ah right. I won't embarrass myself so by explaining my theory on it!

I'd like to hear your theory on it:)

kerry4sam

eroo wrote: »

I'm surprised they are in Kerry? Suppose someone has to tackle the sheep gangs..

easyeason3 wrote: »

Ah right. I won't embarrass myself so by explaining my theory on it!

would your theory be along the same lines as Eroo's?

easyeason3

eroo wrote: »

I'd like to hear your theory on it:)

I thought that if a driver had given the Guards a reason to pull them over that the make of the car would flash in red lights to alert the driver it's their car they have the issue with.

I'm after reddening up & hanging my head in shame here. Normally I'm not this blonde!

Hooch

easyeason3 wrote: »

Ah right. I won't embarrass myself so by explaining my theory on it!

A go on fire out the theory so to speak!!!

eroo wrote: »

I'm surprised they are in Kerry? Suppose someone has to tackle the sheep gangs..

Hey....it'll be a long time before ye see them in Clare!!!:D:p

kerry4sam wrote: »

would your theory be along the same lines as Eroo's?

Dont mind eroo Kerry.....give him kick:D

Also good link with good news video footage of RSU

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0416/collinsr.html

eroo

easyeason3 wrote: »

I thought that if a driver had given the Guards a reason to pull them over that the make of the car would flash in red lights to alert the driver it's their car they have the issue with.

I'm after reddening up & hanging my head in shame here. Normally I'm not this blonde!

Sure how would ya be expected to know? I couldn't tell ya either!!

Hooch

easyeason3 wrote: »

I thought that if a driver had given the Guards a reason to pull them over that the make of the car would flash in red lights to alert the driver it's their car they have the issue with.

I'm after reddening up & hanging my head in shame here. Normally I'm not this blonde!

Yes very good idea.......except Irish people dont use their mirrors!! I once followed a car 26 kms.......yes 26:eek::eek: before it stopped!!! (never saw me!!:eek:, sure you'd never see the patrol car lit up like christmas)

Its ok we like blond in here;):D:):p

easyeason3

eroo wrote: »

Sure how would ya be expected to know? I couldn't tell ya either!!

Well I'm sure the flashing blue lights might be a good indication, as would a quick flick of the siren, chances are you wouldn't need to know the make of car you happen to be driving as you would probably have a good idea of that...unless of course it's me!

cork1

Chief--- wrote: »

If these are the jeeps, yes they are armed.

They are only in Cork Limerick waterford and kerry afaik



The red bit inbetween the lights says armed support unit.

By the way most gardai in unmarked cars if they are in plain clothes are armed also, but they have to keep their guns hidden under a shirt or suit jacket. You will never see the weapons.

Here they are pictured on the square in templemore for a press photo shoot.

For so long bank robbers have been drawing their weapons on unarmed gardai and getting away. Pull them on these guys and I hope you have your will made.

look the odds are nobody will agree with me but i reckon these lads will never fire a round off. they are a deterant to armed gangs simple as. it wouldnt surprise me one bit if they were warned not to fire their weapons.

eroo

nice guy always wrote: »

Hey....it'll be a long time before ye see them in Clare!!!:D:p



Dont mind eroo Kerry.....give him kick:D

I've seen them in Clare.. driving through:D

'give him kick'? That's just those sheep gangs do!:rolleyes:

Hooch

eroo wrote: »

I've seen them in Clare.. driving through:D

'give him kick'? That's just those sheep gangs do!:rolleyes:

Ok slagging over in the usual general thread....lets go, Kerry too:D!!!

easyeason3

nice guy always wrote: »

Yes very good idea.......except Irish people dont use their mirrors!! I once followed a car 26 kms.......yes 26:eek::eek: before it stopped!!! (never saw me!!:eek:, sure you'd never see the patrol car lit up like christmas)

Its ok we like blond in here;):D:):p

Even though I'm blonde I'd probably twig it at around 25 kms

eroo

nice guy always wrote: »

Ok slagging over in the usual general thread....lets go, Kerry too:D!!!

After you..

Hooch

easyeason3 wrote: »

Even though I'm blonde I'd probably twig it at around 25 kms

So lesson of the day....look in mirrors every ten to 15 second to be continualy aware of the presence, position and movement of other road users!!!

That way Nice guy remains.......well nice:D

easyeason3

nice guy always wrote: »

So lesson of the day....look in mirrors every ten to 15 second to be continualy aware of the presence, position and movement of other road users!!!

That way Nice guy remains.......well nice:D

So what's the most ridiculous excuse you've been given by a motorist?

I got caught for no tax, it was out about three months. In that three months I managed to get bandaged up for severe sunburn, being in a neck collar & being on crutches. All of which meant I couldn't drive.
It was the first morning back driving after all of my mishaps & I got stopped at a checkpoint. I tried explaining to the Guard why it wasn't taxed & in fairness it does sound far fetched but unfortunately for me it was all true.

maglite

cork1 wrote: »

will never fire a round off.

That would be the hope i assume.


Are the doors armored in the car?

Hooch

maglite wrote: »

That would be the hope i assume.


Are the doors armored in the car?

Not a question for open forum mes thinks!:)

Outkast_IRE

ya thats the jeeps alright but i see the lads driving into my nice quiet estate in them and they in the usual garda uniforms looks like they just doin the rounds?

easyeason3

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

ya thats the jeeps alright but i see the lads driving into my nice quiet estate in them and they in the usual garda uniforms looks like they just doin the rounds?

It's called going for a gawk & I do that to but because I don't drive a white landcruiser with GARDAI written on it means I get away with it...just

ste88m

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

ya thats the jeeps alright but i see the lads driving into my nice quiet estate in them and they in the usual garda uniforms looks like they just doin the rounds?

Well when in your estate they're probably just on regular patrol. Only when required they unlock the gun safe & arm up. Then they change from the standard garda uniform into 'Tactical Uniform' in order to distinguish them from ordinary gardai. This Tactical Uniform includes the yellow & black checkered jumper, base ball cap, combats, body armour etc. Also, when they arm up they will remove two stickers on the doors to uncover the words 'armed support unit' as well as displaying it on the LED display.

Turner

cork1 wrote: »

look the odds are nobody will agree with me but i reckon these lads will never fire a round off. they are a deterant to armed gangs simple as. it wouldnt surprise me one bit if they were warned not to fire their weapons.

They have tazed countless numbers of people already. None made the media so im not sure if they have fired any rounds yet.

easyeason3

ste88m wrote: »

Well when in your estate they're probably just on regular patrol. Only when required they unlock the gun safe & arm up. Then they change from the standard garda uniform into 'Tactical Uniform' in order to distinguish them from ordinary gardai. This Tactical Uniform includes the yellow & black checkered jumper, base ball cap, combats, body armour etc. Also, when they arm up they will remove two stickers on the doors to uncover the words 'armed support unit' as well as displaying it on the LED display.

So if one of these jeeps happens to pass a post office/ bank bookies & come across a robbery can they shoot at will if they think it is needed or do they have to get authorisation?

You might not be able to answer the above question but I've always wondered about it. I recently saw two scumbags getting arrested for causing hassle in a shop but two detectives in plain clothes showed up in an unmarked car to arrest them. I wondered if this was because the two scumbags are drug dealers (which they are) or if it was because they thought they were in danger of the shop getting held up at knife/ gunpoint. The detectives were armed as far as I know.

ste88m

easyeason3 wrote: »

So if one of these jeeps happens to pass a post office/ bank bookies & come across a robbery can they shoot at will if they think it is needed or do they have to get authorisation?

You might not be able to answer the above question but I've always wondered about it. I recently saw two scumbags getting arrested for causing hassle in a shop but two detectives in plain clothes showed up in an unmarked car to arrest them. I wondered if this was because the two scumbags are drug dealers (which they are) or if it was because they thought they were in danger of the shop getting held up at knife/ gunpoint. The detectives were armed as far as I know.

Eh, i'm not in AGS myself, but after asking someone in the family who is for you. He thinks that they can self authorise and arm up if they need to BUT they have to be able to justify that it was necessary otherwise they're puttin their rear ends on the line.. Now, at that he's in the DMR so he isn't sure.. Can anyone from one of the country stations where RSU are operational confirm this?

easyeason3

ste88m wrote: »

Eh, i'm not in AGS myself, but after asking someone in the family who is for you. He thinks that they can self authorise and arm up if they need to BUT they have to be able to justify that it was necessary otherwise they're puttin their rear ends on the line.. Now, at that he's in the DMR so he isn't sure.. Can anyone from one of the country stations where RSU are operational confirm this?

What is DMR?

cork1

Chief--- wrote: »

They have tazed countless numbers of people already. None made the media so im not sure if they have fired any rounds yet.

ya but thats totally different tazing is none leathal. wouldnt think they have or will.

ste88m

easyeason3 wrote: »

What is DMR?

Sorry, Dublin Metropolitan Region. The area in and around Dublin..

cork1

easyeason3 wrote: »

So if one of these jeeps happens to pass a post office/ bank bookies & come across a robbery can they shoot at will if they think it is needed or do they have to get authorisation?

you NEVER EVER EVER shoot at will! theres rules of engagement i presume as we have in defence forces. and even then if you feel the need for leathal force always ask for permission then when it goes to court and it will you cant be told you had no permission to fire. the way i see it is in ireland if a gaurd ever has to shoot someone be it the right or wrong move people will freak out and start moaning. then it will be a game of pass the buck and the odds are someone gets screwed. so you need to be damn sure thats not going to be you.

ste88m

cork1 wrote: »

you NEVER EVER EVER shoot at will! theres rules of engagement i presume as we have in defence forces. and even then if you feel the need for leathal force always ask for permission then when it goes to court and it will you cant be told you had no permission to fire. the way i see it is in ireland if a gaurd ever has to shoot someone be it the right or wrong move people will freak out and start moaning. then it will be a game of pass the buck and the odds are someone gets screwed. so you need to be damn sure thats not going to be you.

Yeah, very literally cover your a*s first & yes, there would be rules of engagement but if your are put in the situation mentioned above I'd assume you'd just deploy there and then. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

cork1

well in these situations you have to do your best. if theyre in a bank or something and if they can see you outside and see that your armed theyre not gonna come out incase you do open fire so if you can keep them there then that gives you a chance to radio in and get instructions. if it was me i wouldnt be inclined to fire a single shot unless im taking fire

easyeason3

cork1 wrote: »

you NEVER EVER EVER shoot at will! theres rules of engagement i presume as we have in defence forces. and even then if you feel the need for leathal force always ask for permission then when it goes to court and it will you cant be told you had no permission to fire. the way i see it is in ireland if a gaurd ever has to shoot someone be it the right or wrong move people will freak out and start moaning. then it will be a game of pass the buck and the odds are someone gets screwed. so you need to be damn sure thats not going to be you.

Okie dokie but I have a huge problem with this. I know it will be a case of covering your own ass because there's nothing more than Joe public likes to complain about than Guards using force, but next week because his cat is traumatised by a junkie he is straight on to Joe Duffy.
Anyway I would be of the opinion that anyone carrying a loaded weapon has had relevant & specific training on how & when to use it. So if an armed Guard/ Detective sees an armed robbery taking place then surely he/ she should be able to act as they see fit to resolve the said problem. And if that means that the criminal gets wounded/ killed in the process then it's considered an occupational hazzard for the criminal.
As it is they are shooting each other on a regular basis , to kill or harm, so if caught in the act of a serious crime it's hardly going to be a shock to the system if they get on the wrong end of a state bullet.

ste88m

cork1 wrote: »

well in these situations you have to do your best. if theyre in a bank or something and if they can see you outside and see that your armed theyre not gonna come out incase you do open fire so if you can keep them there then that gives you a chance to radio in and get instructions. if it was me i wouldnt be inclined to fire a single shot unless im taking fire

Thats true, as I said, hope for the best, prepare for the worst. The more time you have to play with the better, but split-second decisions are not always the best. Cover your ass as best as possible. At that, i'm not a garda (yet) nor am I in the army like yourself so I'm just talking from my own opinion

easyeason3 wrote: »

Okie dokie but I have a huge problem with this. I know it will be a case of covering your own ass because there's nothing more than Joe public likes to complain about than Guards using force, but next week because his cat is traumatised by a junkie he is straight on to Joe Duffy.
Anyway I would be of the opinion that anyone carrying a loaded weapon has had relevant & specific training on how & when to use it. So if an armed Guard/ Detective sees an armed robbery taking place then surely he/ she should be able to act as they see fit to resolve the said problem. And if that means that the criminal gets wounded/ killed in the process then it's considered an occupational hazzard for the criminal.
As it is they are shooting each other on a regular basis , to kill or harm, so if caught in the act of a serious crime it's hardly going to be a shock to the system if they get on the wrong end of a state bullet.

Once again, I agree here too. If they (the criminal) is prepared to carry a weapon to cause harm, then they should be met with the same response from the Gardai.
Yes, RSU are trained to a high standard and are well capable of taking care of this situation effectivley. Though, that split-second decision of whether or not to to pull the trigger is the difference between, literally, life and death for both parties involved & as such is not a decision to be taken lightly.

Now, I think this may be drifting slightly OT.

Trojan911

maglite wrote: »

Are the doors armored in the car?

Most likely not. A ballistic blanket may be available for deployment i.e drape it over the door of the vehicle.

cork1

your right easyeason they should be able to but to be honest i wouldnt count on it. i heard from a reliable source that the guy who advise on the training of these guys in the 4x4's is an ex-british counter terror specialist and he said that the training they got was up to scratch simply because they were given a date to be ready for and it wasnt enough time to train an armed unit. if one of these gang members gets shot then thats his own fault and i have no pity for him. infact the one id feel sorry for is the officer who has to take a life. but if it happens yes! theyre will be trouble and joe duffy will never have been so busy but when it comes down to it if your looking down the sights you have seconds to make that decision and the courts have months to tear it apart.

cork1

ste88m wrote: »

Thats true, as I said, hope for the best, prepare for the worst. The more time you have to play with the better, but split-second decisions are not always the best. Cover your ass as best as possible. At that, i'm not a garda (yet) nor am I in the army like yourself so I'm just talking from my own opinion

your right though thats all you can do. well im just sayng what iv learned. im in the reserve defence forces but we armed gaurd duties on our own weapons, on the firing ranges, during exercises and we do armed escorts for weapons and ammo transports.so we have to learn all this stuff and do a test every year basically on competency with the weapons

easyeason3

cork1 wrote: »

your right easyeason they should be able to but to be honest i wouldnt count on it. i heard from a reliable source that the guy who advise on the training of these guys in the 4x4's is an ex-british counter terror specialist and he said that the training they got was up to scratch simply because they were given a date to be ready for and it wasnt enough time to train an armed unit. if one of these gang members gets shot then thats his own fault and i have no pity for him. infact the one id feel sorry for is the officer who has to take a life. but if it happens yes! theyre will be trouble and joe duffy will never have been so busy but when it comes down to it if your looking down the sights you have seconds to make that decision and the courts have months to tear it apart.

Very valid points made.
I never thought of the Guards/ Armys feelings towards killing someone to be honest & as a passenger in a car that unfortunately ended someones life I can safely say it is not something to be taken lightly. So I can't even begin to imagine what might go through a Guards/ Armys head regardless of who they shot.
You're right about the split second decision compared to courts trawling over every single detail.
So do we continue to accept this 'Nanny' state or do we stand up & say enough? Is it time to have a complete overhaul of out justice system?

cork1

easyeason3 wrote: »

You're right about the split second decision compared to courts trawling over every single detail.
So do we continue to accept this 'Nanny' state or do we stand up & say enough? Is it time to have a complete overhaul of out justice system?

honestly i think the system isnt too bad.the shooter has to make the decision either way. the courts have to have it investigated and when it comes down to if its a justified shooting then theres no problems with an investigation. these garda armed teams travel in fours which mean you already hav 3 witnesses.so as long as the four of you are sure its was justified and your stories match you should be alright

ste88m

cork1 wrote: »

honestly i think the system isnt too bad.the shooter has to make the decision either way. the courts have to have it investigated and when it comes down to if its a justified shooting then theres no problems with an investigation. these garda armed teams travel in fours which mean you already hav 3 witnesses.so as long as the four of you are sure its was justified and your stories match you should be alright

The system isn't too bad but certain aspects could be improved, i.e the whole process of having to pull over to change & arm up - They should just have the one uniform all the time, none of this time consuming changeover. Also, the 'nanny' approach should just be scrapped. I know they want to remain as an unarmed service but the RSU's should mean business all the time, by this I mean an aggressive, in your face look. Leave the 'softy' look which management favour to the standard Gardai.
On the point they travel in teams of four, I think the travel in two's most of the time & sometimes 3 Gardai crew a car. (open to correction here)
Overhaul of the justice system - well, its needed as some laws are ancient & unenforcable, but thats for another thread.:D

Terrontress

maglite wrote: »

That would be the hope i assume.


Are the doors armored in the car?

I wouldn't think so at €66k per car.

Satan Polaroid

It's too early to say it has been an outright success, but I can't see how it wouldn't be,

From what I hear, the training is top notch.

I believe they'll become a very professional outfit.