iPoker Customer services - brilliant

Ollieboy

Imposter wrote: »

This is something that needs to change across the poker industry. Every site treats their customers more or less as an inconvenience at the moment. If one site were to do things properly how long do you think it would be before everyone follows suit?

By properly I mean using well discussed and open policies regarding security. Have a read of someone like Bruce Schneier and what he has had to say about the US government, e-voting, cryptography based on 'hidden'/private algorithms and generally anyone who tries to implement security policies where there is no accountability or oversight for all parties concerned. Yes security is difficult but that is no reason not to at least try and do it properly.

When it comes to poker sites the only thing that they seem to have bothered to implement properly is the security around the banking system - this is obviously the most important from their point of view (but possibly also from a players viewpoint).

Security around chip dumping is also there but is one that is hard to police properly - I would suggest this is really only there to appease governments who are worried about money laundering.

When it comes to how players are protected there is nowhere near the same security. Disconnect protects and the like don't result in the victim getting any compensation. Ok again a hard one to police but there are examples of obvious cases where the victim has seen no redress.

Then the whole issue of cheating - from a players point of view they can report suspected cheating. Often they never even get a response and if they do the complaint is more often than not dismissed with some wishy-washy excuse usually about how anything is possible on a poker table. True it is hard to prove that cheating occurs but quite often the people investigating these complaints have such a low level of poker knowledge that they shouldn't be investigating these cases. A lot of the time this also stems from the sites not wanting to get it wrong which in my opinion gives the cheater way too much protection. Other mechanisms for resolving such complaints are needed but unfortunately the sites don't need to do this so they won't (for now at least).

Such mechanisms are what is really needed here. These need to give the players confidence that there is something being done about their complaints by providing useful feedback. Similarly such mechanisms need to be watertight so that cheaters can't use them to their advantage. Indeed they would ideally prove to be a significant deterrent to cheaters.

Another relatively simple thing that the sites could do is implement some basic checks in the software that check for relatively basic things and then act swiftly on these triggers. This is almost definitely a non-runner though as it takes manpower and it also would need people who can incorporate this into the software. Given the amount of obvious bugs in quite a few of the current crop of poker clients I won't be holding my breath that such companies have the quality of staff needed to do this.

Related to the last point is the urgent need for the pokersites to actually enforce their own rules about what software assistance is allowed or not. The amount of people datamining on stars for example could be tackled fairly easily if the company wanted. Considering that stars is probably the site that currently seems to be most aware of security issues it says a lot about how far other sites have to come!

What's above is not meant as a dig at anyone in particular so don't take it like that - it's just my view on what's wrong with online poker in terms of security at the moment.

Totally correct and very good post.

I look into setting up a licence company with the poker industry and also something that could track cheats etc. After contacting 2 or 3 main players I gave up, they didn't want to pay for it and they didn't see a need to protect the players. That was enough for me.

BigCityBanker

eoghan104 wrote: »

In John O'Sheas Blog he talks about getting into a big game splitting the action with Dave Callaghan and goes on to say that its great to have Dave sweating him because he is such a good player.

Now is there no rule on Ipoker about one player to an account? How is it fair for someone to sit in to a game thinking they are playing John O'Shea when in fact they are playing two people with one of them being probably the best Omaha player in Ireland?!

I know everyone will say "oh this happens all the time" but its cheating IMO.

I honestly cant tell you if iPoker enforce a one player to a hand rule. I dont think the rule is in place and tbh i dont have time to check it just now.

As for the above situation, I personally dont see it as cheating and if you do then i think you should start a campaign to outlaw all traing sites and coaching.

FWIW, I personally have received coaching from John where I am playing and he is sweating me and advising me on best lines etc and I dont believe I am cheating in doing so.

Ollieboy wrote: »

within a day of "thevOid" been caught it was made public by Stars that he cheat.

without meaning to be pedantic I am pretty sure that Stars didnt come out and say he cheated. In fact I would bet on it. They did announce that they had disqualified somebody for reasons undisclosed and people drew there own conclusions.

Chucky the tree wrote: »

A few questions BCB, has anyone who finished top ten in the huge rakeraces Ipoker do ever been banned for having multiply people use the one account? Also, do you think having a rule where if a player plays over 17 hours in a day will have those extra points deducted by a forumla is a good enough measure to discourage account sharing?

I dont honestly know if anybody has been disqualified.

Am I happy about this whole situation? No, and I have made my thoughts known to iPoker about this. This forms part of our rationale for not subscribing to the last two network races (the current one and another one which was aborted)

karlh wrote: »

?

with respect Karl due to you posting this pic it would be very easy for somebody to scan the thread and misinterpret that Big C had been done for cheating. I dont have pics of Devilfish at the ready to pump into every thread that gets started about his ridiculous hair or whatever that is on his head. A bit of common sense goes a long way.

newbie2

here you go Noel

karlh

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/joke

if you want any other pictures of Devilfish's hair let me know.

Wolves

Recently I played a satellite on stars with 6 places paid. With 7 players left the BB is 2000 and someone raises all in for 2015. The BB folds. This seemed like obvious collusion as the BB was huge chip leader and had taken out the previous few players and was raising about 90% of hands at this stage (obv i went out 7th).

I reported this to stars and they gave me a very comprehensive reply detailing the location of both accounts and the fact they had never used same IP addresses etc.

They also gave me history of 2 hands earlier in the same tournament when the same 2 players played big pots against each other (i wasn't on their table at this stage) in which they could have been eliminated from the tournament (eg. AIPF on 50/50s).

I am satisfied now that they were not in fact colluding and this is just a freak hand when mistakes were made by the player or maybe he just wanted to mess around as he was basically guaranteed a spot already.

I think stars should be commended for their quick reply and would very much doubt that any other site would have handled this to my satisfaction.

Other sites insistance that these things are not made public and even the failures to respond to those who express genuine concerns are nothing short of a disgrace. Sort it out.

sickpuppy

If people are not happy with ipoker dont play there,
i have disconnection problems so dont.
Just a quick question has anyone been reimbursed from say a stt on ipoker ?
i know people have had emails from pokerstars saying we had cheaters heres your money back they have been banned etc.

I dont know if it happens on other networks that they send you notice of cheats in your game but i know stars do.
The problem possible being that ipoker is full of diff skins and they couldnt be arsed checking it thoroughly i blame the jews myself arent they at fault for everything.

Bcb id give up on that auld coaching the last time i saw you play plo in the fitz got it in bst hand 3 times got ass raped each time

BigCityBanker

karlh wrote: »

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/joke

if you want any other pictures of Devilfish's hair let me know.

oh no, i got the joke. I havent lost my humor. As I said above people may get the wrong idea cos you have quoted something about cheating followed by a pic of Ciaran.

strewelpeter

BigCityBanker wrote: »

Like, AIB doesnt take a one page add in the Times detailing their encryption policies? ofc not, why would you want to make people wise to the best way to break a system?
.

Sigh!

I have to take you up on this Noel, because you are totally wrong and I'm a bit surprised* that you as someone who has worked in banking and online poker fails so comprehensively to get what security is about.

To summarise a field have spent years working on in a few bullet points:

Security by obfuscation is no security at all.
The general detail for all security mechanisms and encryption schemes used in banking and any financial system are well known and available in the public domain.
Everything but the specific secret keys used should be known publicly.
Where a system is compromised it is permissible to keep a lid on the details of how the system was compromised only for as much time as it takes to repair the systems and install defences against the breach.


* Edit: Actually I'm not even a little bit surprised It is exactly the level of knowledge of one of the fundamental aspects of their business that I have come to expect from third rate banks and online businesses.

RoundTower

this thread is so confusing, I should be weighing in to troll someone around here but I can't figure out who

strewelpeter

RoundTower wrote: »

this thread is so confusing, I should be weighing in to troll someone around here but I can't figure out who

In the light of his I am a dole sponger and I'm proud of it post I reckon this Post is a good place to start :cool:

NickyOD wrote: »

Cheats should be named and shamed, end of story. This is the best deterrent for future cheats.

I Lol'd (out loud, even ! )

El Stuntman

strewelpeter wrote: »

In the light of his I am a dole sponger and I'm proud of it post I reckon this Post is a good place to start :cool:

I Lol'd (out loud, even ! )

but his self-justification was a work of art, pure genius!

I'm still wondering how many other poker pros are on the dole, ocallagh was the only one to respond (he's not)

RoundTower

El Stuntman wrote: »

but his self-justification was a work of art, pure genius!

I'm still wondering how many other poker pros are on the dole, ocallagh was the only one to respond (he's not)

im not

I'm pretty sure Reggie "the bin" Cromwell is though.

Samba

.

sickpuppy

Anyone playing hu limit sngs dserves to be shafted whata horrible way to play poker.

fatguy

sickpuppy wrote: »

Anyone playing limit poker deserves to be shafted, what a horrible way to play poker.

I agree so much that I fixed your typing.

PokerPissTaker

The point I was trying to make was that I asked this employee for a simply reply and got, quite clearly, lied to. Whoever of you think that he was flkiping with 8 mad scandi's and finished +ve 200+ stacks is just insane. There is no way he spun $50 into exactly £11750 in a sitting or in a few tables table hopping.

I don't think as player's that we should be lied too when we ask question's of our server. It's that simple.

thedini

he didn't flip it up. I sat down in a limit table yesterday by mistake, because limit is listed first. I was allowed to bring any amount I wished to the table, this has happened a few times, it's a glitch in the software.

fatguy

I don't think as player's that we should be lied too when we ask question's of our server. It's that simple.

I know this is a cliche but it's something I've taken to living my life by:

Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity.

You got a bad CSR who fobbed you off. It happens.

PokerPissTaker

This is quite obviously what happened. And yet I was told on several occasion's that "Damien" was on the phone to iPoker as we spoke who had confirmed that he had won the money sat at a table.

An utter disgrace

Lazare

PokerPissTaker wrote: »

An utter disgrace

Yeah, your attitude to that rep was alright.

hopalong85

PokerPissTaker wrote: »

This is quite obviously what happened. And yet I was told on several occasion's that "Damien" was on the phone to iPoker as we spoke who had confirmed that he had won the money sat at a table.

An utter disgrace

utter disgrace lol. zomg overreact much?!

Treehouse72

"iPoker Customer Services"? You mean customer services at your skin, right?

PokerPissTaker

Lazare wrote: »

Yeah, your attitude to that rep was alright.

My attitude???? Why because I gave out to my provider about bare face lying to me, sorry if you disagree, but I couldn't care less about whether or not I hurt is feeling's when he's the person being paid to provide me with a service and who then try's to make a fool of me by lying to me. If he had simply said "I have no idea but will get someone to contact you as soon as possible" then there would have been no issue.

Treehouse72

PokerPissTaker wrote: »

My attitude???? Why because I gave out to my provider about bare face lying to me, sorry if you disagree, but I couldn't care less about whether or not I hurt is feeling's when he's the person being paid to provide me with a service and who then try's to make a fool of me by lying to me. If he had simply said "I have no idea but will get someone to contact you as soon as possible" then there would have been no issue.

One of the first things you said to him was "Thats the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard". You had a clearly aggressive attitude from the get-go.

And could you please answer my question above...you were in touch with your skin, not iP, correct?

PokerPissTaker

Treehouse72 wrote: »

"iPoker Customer Services"? You mean customer services at your skin, right?

Yes, I just didn't want to mention the skin.

And I didn't start out with an aggressive attitude, but when someone starts bare face lying to me for no reason then why shouldn't I be aggravated?

HiCloy

thedini wrote: »

he didn't flip it up. I sat down in a limit table yesterday by mistake, because limit is listed first. I was allowed to bring any amount I wished to the table, this has happened a few times, it's a glitch in the software.

This happens a lot, people sitting into Limit SnGs thinking they're NL

Treehouse72

PokerPissTaker wrote: »

Yes, I just didn't want to mention the skin.

And I didn't start out with an aggressive attitude, but when someone starts bare face lying to me for no reason then why shouldn't I be aggravated?

Yeah, you have a right to be agitated, but the chat does not paint you in a particularly pleasant light with respect. On top of which, it is easy to imagine the rep misunderstanding you first time around as your story is pretty unusual, so the "ridiculous" comment was very early in the exchange to be getting so brusque.

For information, I generally regard poker players as rude, impatient, greedy, sleep-deprived, malnourished, paranoid, moaning misanthropes until proven otherwise, so I'm not setting out to be especially confrontational to you in particular. Necessarily.

As for the substantive complaint, I've never seen this. Nor do I see how it would be a huge advantage except to good players who know how to exploit their stack. As this is 50NL, it's unlikely to have been such a player. That of course would not change it being wrong as any glitches with software are worrisome and it could easily have happened higher up (where competent players would sit out anyway if they saw this happening).

I also doubt very much this is a long-term flaw in the software and would have thought instead that some kind of one-off glitch is more likely. Have you tried to replicate it yourself?

As for the skin v. network issue, it is kinda wonky of you to be giving out stink about iPoker, when any wrongdoing regarding the lies you thought you were told are to do with the skin, not iPoker. The software glitch (if there is one) is a shared responsibility for both.

HiCloy

So, PP IO STT, chip dumping by MP3 or rigged?

Lol at result

No-Limit Hold'em, $40.00 BB (9 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($2860)
SB ($2505)
Hero (BB) ($1165)
UTG ($4055)
UTG+1 ($8380)
MP1 ($2250)
MP2 ($2850)
MP3 ($3265)
CO ($2670)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9, 4
UTG calls $40, UTG+1 calls $40, 2 folds, MP3 bets $200, 2 folds, SB calls $180, 2 folds, UTG+1 calls $160

Flop: ($680) 7, 10, 2(3 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 bets $680, MP3 calls $680, SB raises $2305 (All-In), UTG+1 calls $1625, MP3 raises $2385 (All-In), UTG+1 calls $760

Turn: ($9115) J(3 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($9115) Q(3 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: $9115

Results:
SB had A, A (one pair, Aces).
UTG+1 had 2, 2 (three of a kind, twos).
MP3 had A, K (straight, Ace high).
Outcome: MP3 won $9115

BigCityBanker

lol, i was watching this - was like a carcrash

HiCloy

BigCityBanker wrote: »

lol, i was watching this - was like a carcrash

And are you checking for possible (attempted) chip dumping?