iPoker Customer services - brilliant

PokerPissTaker

I just posed the following question to a iPoker customer service rep;

How much is the max biy in on a 25c/50 PLO table?

This is the conversation that followed, truly worth reading



Damien: Hi, how can I help you?
MrDonovan: Hi Whats the Max buy in on a
MrDonovan: 25c /50c PLO table
Damien: $50 as far as I am aware
MrDonovan: Right so how theres a fella at my table with 11k on the felt
MrDonovan: Hello?
Damien: If you leave a higher stakes table, and immeadiatly attempt to join another table of lower stakes (but the same game kind), the player has to t
then yes
Damien: It will more than likely make you take all the chips with you
MrDonovan: Thats the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard
MrDonovan: Why should one player have such an advantage
Damien: Have you got the table name?
MrDonovan: berezovsky
MrDonovan: ChristopherEucken has just sat 20 hands ago with 11750
MrDonovan: in a 25c /50c game Its ridiculous How can we be expected to beat

MrDonovan: in a 25c /50c game Its ridiculous How can we be expected to beat a player who can put
MrDonovan: 12k on a 50 table
Damien: I am just checking this out now
MrDonovan: If I knew this was possible I'd be doing this for a living just buyin to 50 games 5k deep
Damien: The player has not actually played any hands at the table
MrDonovan: Are you for reall
MrDonovan: He doubled me up twice

MrDonovan: I hacve the Hand history and its going str up on all the forums as well as the screen shot of this comversation
Damien: Have you got the hand ID's?
MrDonovan: 1541483359
MrDonovan: is just one
MrDonovan: of dozens
Damien: This is because of the sinking rule on the network
Damien: if you leave a table with more than the max table sit down amount...if you try and rejoin that table w
MrDonovan: It's Impossible that he took 11750 off a 2 /50c table
MrDonovan: NOT POSSIBLE
MrDonovan: He'dhave to have been playing for about 30 days str
Damien: Ipoker have just confirmed he joined the table earlier with $50 and left with 11665.45
MrDonovan: Then How did he sit at my table with exactly 11750
MrDonovan: Your fobbing me off
MrDonovan: Its not possible to win that much money on
a 5o tbale in a sitting
Damien: I am not fobbing you off at all. Customer played at this table throughout the day
MrDonovan: Check all the forums in 10 minutes
MrDonovan: This is going str up
Damien: Because of the sinking rule, if you leave a table with more than the max table sit down amount...if you try and rejoin that table within 120 minuets..then you have to join with the amount you le
left with
Damien: So if the customer leaves and joins the table, he has to take the amount you left the table with back
MrDonovan: Listen to what your saying
MrDonovan: Do you know anything about poker
MrDonovan: If everyone at the table buys in for 50 he has to beat everyone 200 times to make 10k
MrDonovan: in one sitting
Damien: I am in conversation with Ipoker who have confirmed it is the sinking rule. They have also advised that they are currently reviewing the players hand history at this table.


This is real

Donkathon

in fairness given a prolonged period of getting off the table with more than the max and then sitting back in you couldpossibly build it up to $11,750 but for them to confirm that he only sat at the table earlier in that same day with only $50 something smells fishy

5starpool

Why would you be complaining if he has doubled you up twice already? Why not keep at it?

I know it is a ridiculous situation though, but I still don't know why you would want to sit in on a .25/.50 table with 5k if you could.

Maybe ipoker are getting their decimal points mixed up somewhere.

TripleAce

You sound so rude to the guy, as if he is the one who makes the rules of the poker room.
Also why you care so much how much money he has behind? Can you not change table if this is really a problem?

karlh

chat ban IMO

Ollieboy

I think you were a bit hard on the guy, but he didn't seem to have a clue of what you were going on about. Remember he's usually a badly trained, poorly paid employee of a gambling company. Ask for the Manager and give him the ****.

2 weeks ago I report a suspect chip dumping in a sat. I contact support gave them the hand history and told them what I thought, I also challenge both players in front of the whole table. Now on hindsight the standard is so bad on Ipoker this could be possible donk play, but the guy call off his stack with bottom pair and call raise with K2os. Anyway when I got on to support they asked me for the names of the players, I couldn't believe it. They should be able to spot this straight away without asking me just a stupid questions. I told him he's waste my time passing this hand to him as he didnt have a clue. He told me he would forward the hand history to the XX department and I've heard nothing since which is totally unacceptable and this is not the first time this is happen. They use bull**** excuse not to give you feedback.

I'm sorry to say I-poker do not take cheating serious enough. There appears to be loads of mulit-accounts on the site, players using MSN to discuss hands, 3/4 betting in teams, chip dumping etc etc. Full Tilt seem to have a similiar problem. I've decide in the last few weeks to take my business to a site that does have proper security in place. I feel all players should do the same and force these cowboy sites to improve there security. At the moment I feel only 1 site on the whole internet try to protect the players and I believe they could still improve.

If any site wants to pay me a 6 figure salary to improve the poker image along with proper security in place, I will gladly oblige. This is not hard to do, just takes a bit of effert.

BigCityBanker

Ollieboy wrote: »

I'm sorry to say I-poker do not take cheating serious enough. There appears to be loads of mulit-accounts on the site, players using MSN to discuss hands, 3/4 betting in teams, chip dumping etc etc.

fleeting statements normally find grounding with examples?

Ollieboy

BigCityBanker wrote: »

fleeting statements normally find grounding with examples?

If I-poker had a open door policy than we would be able to show examples of cheating, instead they perfer to ignore complaints or hide behind excuses for not taken actions.

If your so sure that Ipoker takes cheating serious please provide examples. I'm sure thats the last we'll hear from you on this subject. I've report loads of samples to support and no action as been taken against the players. Also are you telling me people don't have mulitply accounts on the I-poker network..lol

I've also provide examples to another network and players have had action taken straight away.

Admit it Noel, security is an expense that Ipoker don't want to pay for.

Also when will they allow the screens to be re-size. I can't believe after 3 years you still can't resize screens.... such a joke.

I'll except that PPP did take action 3 years ago against two cheaters on the old Tribece network, but I've seen no action taken by the Ipoker network since its been formed. If you want to build confidence in Ipoker network you have to tell people about the actions it as taken in the past, similiar to what Stars have done. Make example of people and let the poker community eat them alive.

Ollieboy

Ollieboy wrote: »

Admit it Noel, security is an expense that Ipoker don't want to pay for, maybe that has something to do with the parent company been based in Israel, tight as ****.

Not doing your argument much good by being an anti-semitic bigot.

NickyOD

Couldn't a bunch of scandies have been flipping on that table for a while. Could easily happen.

Serena08

I am not a lover of Ipoker :Pbut in fairness I have always found them to be fair in handling any complaint I have had to make ..apart from one occasion when the guy that was dealing with me had no idea what he was doing but I do feel that you have to follow up on the initial complaint yourself as they do not get back to you otherwise .this needs to change afterall you are the customer:rolleyes:

digiman

NickyOD wrote: »

Couldn't a bunch of scandies have been flipping on that table for a while. Could easily happen.

Most likely, sure there were screen shots before of baords players doing flips on tribeca I think years ago were the average pot at a 1c2c tables was hundereds if not a thousand.

BigCityBanker

Ollieboy wrote: »

If I-poker had a open door policy than we would be able to show examples of cheating, instead they perfer to ignore complaints or hide behind excuses for not taken actions..

So what your saying is you have no examples of cheating? Just more waffle about loads of examples, but you dont really have any?

Ollieboy wrote: »

If your so sure that Ipoker takes cheating serious please provide examples. I'm sure thats the last we'll hear from you on this subject. I've report loads of samples to support and no action as been taken against the players. .

Ollie this is highly sensitive information and the last place I am going to post it is on boards.

Also - its a good time to clarify something, just because you report something as being suspected cheating > that does not mean it is cheating.

FWIW - ive seen cases of where itlooked blatant cheating and once you investigate it there is noting more than blatant stupidity on some peoples part.

If you got to the point where you banned everything that **looked** like it may be cheating or collusion then you would have an empty network.

also - nobody that reports cheating will ever be told one way or the other if action has been taken, one of the best ways to protect against it is to not make people aware of how you deal with it cos once they know this they can use it to their advantage.

Also - I recently urged ipoker to go public on a huge case, and by huge I mean gigantic. The person in question is a high profile sponsored pro on another site (not part of the ipoker network) and will appear in every other copy of european poker magazines. ofc it didnt go public but very stern action was taken against him. The only reason I know of this case is because I was the one to report it. Trust me if this case was public it would probably put the Brandi 2+2 threads in the shade.

Ollieboy wrote: »

Also are you telling me people don't have mulitply accounts on the I-poker network..lol.

Ollie - I personally have about 10 ipoker accounts. I know you have more than one also - there is no rule against this so i dont really get your point here.

If you want to be more specific about your issue here then i will respond. But you do realise that without clarification that you are pretty much calling you, me and the majority of posters on this forum CHEATS.

Ollieboy wrote: »

I've also provide examples to another network and players have had action taken straight away..

have a gold star.

Ollieboy wrote: »

Admit it Noel, security is an expense that Ipoker don't want to pay for, maybe that has something to do with the parent company been based in Israel, tight as ****..

large flakey mass generalisations FTL. at this point I really suggest that you take 5 minutes cooling off period before hitting the send button.

Im not arsed to expand, but i expect you are sensible enough to know that advertising how you conduct your security is not best practice.

Like, AIB doesnt take a one page add in the Times detailing their encryption policies? ofc not, why would you want to make people wise to the best way to break a system?

Ollieboy wrote: »

Also when will they allow the screens to be re-size. I can't believe after 3 years you still can't resize screens.... such a joke..

this is of paramount importance to security, im guessing at this point in your post you had a quick glance back and realised you had nothing of substance so threw this old chestnut in to give your post some credibility?

Ollieboy wrote: »

I'll except that PPP did take action 3 years ago against two cheaters on the old Tribece network, but I've seen no action taken by the Ipoker network since its been formed. If you want to build confidence in Ipoker network you have to tell people about the actions it as taken in the past, similiar to what Stars have done. Make example of people and let the poker community eat them alive.

Ollie, you have no idea about the frequency with which cheats are caught and dealt with.

Ollie, your a nice guy and I like you a lot but there is a whole lot of hot air in this post. In general I despise large general sweeping statements that have no substance or grounding but until you can give me a concrete example of 'blatant cheating or collusion' that hasnt been acted on I can do no more than assume you got out of the wrong side of bed and are having a bad morning.

Anyway - I am busy (seriously), I know we will bump into each other over the weekend and remind ourselves how stupid we both are for getting into a raving match on the intertubes.

Ollieboy

Deleted User wrote: »

Not doing your argument much good by being an anti-semitic bigot.

meant with a bit of tongue and cheek, but accept you comment and re-moved.

Ollieboy

BigCityBanker wrote: »

So what your saying is you have no examples of cheating? Just more waffle about loads of examples, but you dont really have any?



Ollie this is highly sensitive information and the last place I am going to post it is on boards.

Also - its a good time to clarify something, just because you report something as being suspected cheating > that does not mean it is cheating.

FWIW - ive seen cases of where itlooked blatant cheating and once you investigate it there is noting more than blatant stupidity on some peoples part.

If you got to the point where you banned everything that **looked** like it may be cheating or collusion then you would have an empty network.

also - nobody that reports cheating will ever be told one way or the other if action has been taken, one of the best ways to protect against it is to not make people aware of how you deal with it cos once they know this they can use it to their advantage.

Also - I recently urged ipoker to go public on a huge case, and by huge I mean gigantic. The person in question is a high profile sponsored pro on another site (not part of the ipoker network) and will appear in every other copy of european poker magazines. ofc it didnt go public but very stern action was taken against him. The only reason I know of this case is because I was the one to report it. Trust me if this case was public it would probably put the Brandi 2+2 threads in the shade.



Ollie - I personally have about 10 ipoker accounts. I know you have more than one also - there is no rule against this so i dont really get your point here.

If you want to be more specific about your issue here then i will respond. But you do realise that without clarification that you are pretty much calling you, me and the majority of posters on this forum CHEATS.



have a gold star.



large flakey mass generalisations FTL. at this point I really suggest that you take 5 minutes cooling off period before hitting the send button.

Im not arsed to expand, but i expect you are sensible enough to know that advertising how you conduct your security is not best practice.

Like, AIB doesnt take a one page add in the Times detailing their encryption policies? ofc not, why would you want to make people wise to the best way to break a system?



this is of paramount importance to security, im guessing at this point in your post you had a quick glance back and realised you had nothing of substance so threw this old chestnut in to give your post some credibility?



Ollie, you have no idea about the frequency with which cheats are caught and dealt with.

Ollie, your a nice guy and I like you a lot but there is a whole lot of hot air in this post. In general I despise large general sweeping statements that have no substance or grounding but until you can give me a concrete example of 'blatant cheating or collusion' that hasnt been acted on I can do no more than assume you got out of the wrong side of bed and are having a bad morning.

Anyway - I am busy (seriously), I know we will bump into each other over the weekend and remind ourselves how stupid we both are for getting into a raving match on the intertubes.

I just love your tone in response to anything negative post about I-poker. They must be the most perfect site in the world in your eyes.

I would have no problem in document "suspect" cases of cheating, but I don't get paid for this and its not my job, its I-poker. I've discuss a example in private with you before and I asked to be told the outcome and you correctly told me it was Ipoker policy not to give this detail.

I totally disagree with this policy. If I have been wrong I have the right to take action to get my money back. This is the reason why I-poker won't give out this information as they'll have to compensate players for the cheaters. I do not play cash games on Ipoker anymore due to there lack of clarity when I asked for response to cheating in the pass. Another example is the use of disconnecting to get to showdown cheaply. It was proved that the player abused this, but he still gets reward the pot, totally unacceptable.

Any action taken against any player should be made public. If the bank take a court action or Professional bodies they have to make these reports public. Because the poker industry doesn't have a watch dog the sites don't give a **** .

Only this week I report another instance of cheating and I challenge the player involved, I got abused by him and he left which indicates to me he was caught and decide to leave the table asap. I've report this and as far as I'm concerned no action as been taken. Even worse the support person who took the details didn't even understand the complaint.

Until I-poker prove to me and the other players that cheating is not going on, than we'll have to believe it is happen. You've already confirmed this in your response.

Finally mulitply accounts should not be allow on the network. Most people have used the same CC to set-up loads of different accounts on different skins and they now only need a seperate IP address to use these accounts at the same time. I don't believe that Ipoker have the skill or want to resolve this matter or catch these players.

If your plan is to come on here and rubbish my claims than that shows how little respect you have for your customers when they come to you with concerns.

I don't take anything you say personally has its my view point and I'm entitle to it. I don't use hand history tools like most people here and if I did I could back up this argument with details. Maybe this is a mistake on my part, but I'm not a big fan of hand history tools.

I'm sure your also aware of rumours in the industry about mass online cheating going on in another site at higher stakes, who I better not mention in case I upset them too, but fair to say I never play there.

I'm sure you have better things to be doing this weekend so I won't waste anymore of your time.

I'm not accusing PPP of any mistreatment here, but Ipoker.

Gl with the weekend, I wont be around to have that pint.

zuutroy

Every site awards the pot to people who abuse d/c protection, not just ipoker. The worst that will happen is they have their DC removed. Also no site gives out information on their investigation of cheating. Look at thev0id from the WCOOP a while back. Stars never gave any indication as to their findings.
I know ipoker are terribad at most things, but flaming them for having the same policies as every poker room is a bit ott.

eoghan104

BigCityBanker wrote: »

So what your saying is you have no examples of cheating? Just more waffle about loads of examples, but you dont really have any?

In John O'Sheas Blog he talks about getting into a big game splitting the action with Dave Callaghan and goes on to say that its great to have Dave sweating him because he is such a good player.

Now is there no rule on Ipoker about one player to an account? How is it fair for someone to sit in to a game thinking they are playing John O'Shea when in fact they are playing two people with one of them being probably the best Omaha player in Ireland?!

I know everyone will say "oh this happens all the time" but its cheating IMO.

OSheas Blog wrote: »

Then I took a shot at 50/100 with Hali with me driving. Was only $2,5k each $5k stack. We did do a horrible suck out but I think I played pretty well and got out for over $18k. Great to have some like Hali to sweat you in a game like that. He obv a lot better than me but I think I was somewhere close to his level of thinking.

digiman

eoghan104 wrote: »

In John O'Sheas Blog he talks about getting into a big game splitting the action with Dave Callaghan and goes on to say that its great to have Dave sweating him because he is such a good player.

Now is there no rule on Ipoker about one player to an account? How is it fair for someone to sit in to a game thinking they are playing John O'Shea when in fact they are playing two people with one of them being probably the best Omaha player in Ireland?!

I know everyone will say "oh this happens all the time" but its cheating IMO.

Is there anything thats says you can't do this on poker sites?

Because its just coaching really?

Ollieboy

zuutroy wrote: »

Every site awards the pot to people who abuse d/c protection, not just ipoker. The worst that will happen is they have their DC removed. Also no site gives out information on their investigation of cheating. Look at thev0id from the WCOOP a while back. Stars never gave any indication as to their findings.
I know ipoker are terribad at most things, but flaming them for having the same policies as every poker room is a bit ott.

within a day of "thevOid" been caught it was made public by Stars that he cheat. Ipoker refuse to even make it public that anyone cheats. If I have loss out financially to someone that as cheated, I've the right to get that money back, stars and even UB to a degree compenstate players for cheating that went on. I don't remember I-poker compensating anyone yet. If they have will they please post here.

Also if anyone else has ever been ban for cheating on Ipoker, let him/her come forward?

I personally don't believe that I-poker take cheating serious. Noel wants me to believe that they do based on his word, not actions. I personally have expierance no action taken by Ipoker so I dont agree with Noels statements. He wants me to accept that he caught someone and report it and action was taken. Maybe I should give him a Gold Star.

Slash/ED

I don't see why you think this gave him such a huge edge and why you'd wanna have 5k on a 50pl table where everyone else was 100bbs deep either for that matter?

NickyOD

The whole "Trust me we caught someone and it was a big deal" story is neither helpful nor re-assuring. Cheats should be named and shamed, end of story. This is the best deterrent for future cheats.

BigCityBanker wrote: »

also - nobody that reports cheating will ever be told one way or the other if action has been taken, one of the best ways to protect against it is to not make people aware of how you deal with it cos once they know this they can use it to their advantage.

This sounds a bit like the whole search for the mysterious weapons of mass destruction. "We can't tell you how we know they have WOMDs, because then they'll learn about how we gather our intelligence"

Maybe iPoker are doing a good job catching cheats and maybe they aren't. How can anyone know for sure? I just don't think there's any reason for customers to have any confidence in the network's ability to catch cheats without seeing the cheats exposed.

CHD

The biggest cheats of all are iPoker themselves.

eoghan104

digiman wrote: »

Is there anything thats says you can't do this on poker sites?

Because its just coaching really?

Yeh maybe thats the case, Im sure Noel will be back to let us know........

Id be suprised if Ipoker were to say that as many people as you like can use one account at the same time......

Imposter

zuutroy wrote: »

Also no site gives out information on their investigation of cheating.

This is something that needs to change across the poker industry. Every site treats their customers more or less as an inconvenience at the moment. If one site were to do things properly how long do you think it would be before everyone follows suit?

By properly I mean using well discussed and open policies regarding security. Have a read of someone like Bruce Schneier and what he has had to say about the US government, e-voting, cryptography based on 'hidden'/private algorithms and generally anyone who tries to implement security policies where there is no accountability or oversight for all parties concerned. Yes security is difficult but that is no reason not to at least try and do it properly.

When it comes to poker sites the only thing that they seem to have bothered to implement properly is the security around the banking system - this is obviously the most important from their point of view (but possibly also from a players viewpoint).

Security around chip dumping is also there but is one that is hard to police properly - I would suggest this is really only there to appease governments who are worried about money laundering.

When it comes to how players are protected there is nowhere near the same security. Disconnect protects and the like don't result in the victim getting any compensation. Ok again a hard one to police but there are examples of obvious cases where the victim has seen no redress.

Then the whole issue of cheating - from a players point of view they can report suspected cheating. Often they never even get a response and if they do the complaint is more often than not dismissed with some wishy-washy excuse usually about how anything is possible on a poker table. True it is hard to prove that cheating occurs but quite often the people investigating these complaints have such a low level of poker knowledge that they shouldn't be investigating these cases. A lot of the time this also stems from the sites not wanting to get it wrong which in my opinion gives the cheater way too much protection. Other mechanisms for resolving such complaints are needed but unfortunately the sites don't need to do this so they won't (for now at least).

Such mechanisms are what is really needed here. These need to give the players confidence that there is something being done about their complaints by providing useful feedback. Similarly such mechanisms need to be watertight so that cheaters can't use them to their advantage. Indeed they would ideally prove to be a significant deterrent to cheaters.

Another relatively simple thing that the sites could do is implement some basic checks in the software that check for relatively basic things and then act swiftly on these triggers. This is almost definitely a non-runner though as it takes manpower and it also would need people who can incorporate this into the software. Given the amount of obvious bugs in quite a few of the current crop of poker clients I won't be holding my breath that such companies have the quality of staff needed to do this.

Related to the last point is the urgent need for the pokersites to actually enforce their own rules about what software assistance is allowed or not. The amount of people datamining on stars for example could be tackled fairly easily if the company wanted. Considering that stars is probably the site that currently seems to be most aware of security issues it says a lot about how far other sites have to come!

What's above is not meant as a dig at anyone in particular so don't take it like that - it's just my view on what's wrong with online poker in terms of security at the moment.

fatguy

This is something that needs to change across the poker industry. Every site treats their customers more or less as an inconvenience at the moment. If one site were to do things properly how long do you think it would be before everyone follows suit?

And they'll all revert as quickly as soon as the first defamation of character lawsuit is filed over allegations of cheating.

Thecageyone

CHD wrote: »

The biggest cheats of all are iPoker themselves.

Agreed.

As for customer services, I've found them to be a mix of Helpful-ish, to very unhelpful. Depending on who you get/time of the month/how much ass they kiss for their job.

One thing I never do is get rude or ignorant with them, stern yes, but not rude. When I know I'm right I won't back down until my question is answered, and I have been known to complain, they don't like it but that's their job. Anytime I have complained it was about something affecting me personally though.

One time I got a female rep, and I was complaining about disconnection problems and losing out on big hands because of it - she wasn't in a caring mood. I jokingly said "It's bad enough ipoker is rigged without taking my money in other ways" - I was then threatened with a chat ban - not just a Live chat ban but a table chat ban!! FFS!? I know they're all loyal and overly defensive about Boyle's itself, but ipoker?? A few minutes later she tried to deny saying such a thing, but I already had the chat screen-capped in case she did indeed have me banned.

You're just never meant to complain, only go to Live when you want to tell them they smell of roses.

Lurker1977

eoghan104 wrote: »

Yeh maybe thats the case, Im sure Noel will be back to let us know........

Id be suprised if Ipoker were to say that as many people as you like can use one account at the same time......

Hey Eoghan,

I think there is a major difference between being sweated and then being able to discuss thought processes etc with your coach after the hand has played out and being instructed as to when to bet during a hand. Obviously there can be gameflow related reasons why one course of action is better than another which the coach can become much more aware of by sweating as opposed to a HH review, but if its a case that the coach watches and then when you are in a tricky spot you are instructed as to bet/check/fold then yes I agree that breaks the one person per hand rule.

DEEP THROAT

People Cheat At Poker........ Shock Horror Revelation.

Up There With

Lifes Not Fair

What Next

Politicians Lie??


In the bad old days before organized poker really took off, the big asset in a poker player's tools of the trade would be the ability to spot a bent game and avoid it ( complaining would be perceived as sore loser etc etc ).

Online poker is rife with cheating some acceptable some not so.

DP.. If you're at a table that has DP you have to view it as a button that you can press one or twice a day to see all other cards without putting any more money into the pot. A kind of online poker get out of jail free card.

If you have a problem with people using it go to a table that does not have it. Sitting there whinging about that cheating robbing ****ing bastard who just did me out of the biggest ****ing pot of my life is just pathetic. If it's there it will be used and if you sit there and don't use and just bitch about it you're a mug.

Speech Play.. Rife especially in MTT's when the bubble approaches and a factor of ten when it is a satellite. People revealing their hands, softplaying, tables deciding not to play any more when only one or two from the prizes and they know the table won't be broken. Some of the sites (ipoker in particular springs to mind ) don't even go hand 4 hand in the latter stages of tournaments and this can lead to tables where each one of the players runs down the clock entirely per hand.

None of this would be tolerated in a real poker situation but online there is no supervision on the tables. Complaining is just a waste of time because under the situation they are playing within the parameters laid down by the poker client on what can and cannot be done during a hand.

I'm not even going to bother with the other more active ways of cheating but remember this PokerStars has at peak over 100,000 players on tables. In a real world situation if you had 100,000 players stuck in a card room the size of Dublin city centre, How many of the games would there be a bit of dubious play going on?

Poker as with most other sports the result on the day is what counts. Football players complain they should have got a penalty, but all they are in effect doing is venting their frustration at things going against them, they do not expect the ref to say sorry and award them the match to make up for it.

I'd imagine in 99% of cases that people are suspected of cheating there will always be an innocent explanation that could be put forward to explain what happened. If this is the case there will be a reasonable doubt and no action will ensue. I for one would be very wary of any site that would arbitrarily confiscate my money on an unproven allegation made by someone who I'm just after beating.

The reason most online cheats get caught is because they're either retarded ( Absolute Poker Anyone ) or sloppy ( Mulitaccounters using the same ip address )

Chucky the tree

A few questions BCB, has anyone who finished top ten in the huge rakeraces Ipoker do ever been banned for having multiply people use the one account? Also, do you think having a rule where if a player plays over 17 hours in a day will have those extra points deducted by a forumla is a good enough measure to discourage account sharing?

karlh

BigCityBanker wrote: »

Also - I recently urged ipoker to go public on a huge case, and by huge I mean gigantic. The person in question is a high profile sponsored pro

?

NickyOD

lol Karl.

Ollieboy

Imposter wrote: »

This is something that needs to change across the poker industry. Every site treats their customers more or less as an inconvenience at the moment. If one site were to do things properly how long do you think it would be before everyone follows suit?

By properly I mean using well discussed and open policies regarding security. Have a read of someone like Bruce Schneier and what he has had to say about the US government, e-voting, cryptography based on 'hidden'/private algorithms and generally anyone who tries to implement security policies where there is no accountability or oversight for all parties concerned. Yes security is difficult but that is no reason not to at least try and do it properly.

When it comes to poker sites the only thing that they seem to have bothered to implement properly is the security around the banking system - this is obviously the most important from their point of view (but possibly also from a players viewpoint).

Security around chip dumping is also there but is one that is hard to police properly - I would suggest this is really only there to appease governments who are worried about money laundering.

When it comes to how players are protected there is nowhere near the same security. Disconnect protects and the like don't result in the victim getting any compensation. Ok again a hard one to police but there are examples of obvious cases where the victim has seen no redress.

Then the whole issue of cheating - from a players point of view they can report suspected cheating. Often they never even get a response and if they do the complaint is more often than not dismissed with some wishy-washy excuse usually about how anything is possible on a poker table. True it is hard to prove that cheating occurs but quite often the people investigating these complaints have such a low level of poker knowledge that they shouldn't be investigating these cases. A lot of the time this also stems from the sites not wanting to get it wrong which in my opinion gives the cheater way too much protection. Other mechanisms for resolving such complaints are needed but unfortunately the sites don't need to do this so they won't (for now at least).

Such mechanisms are what is really needed here. These need to give the players confidence that there is something being done about their complaints by providing useful feedback. Similarly such mechanisms need to be watertight so that cheaters can't use them to their advantage. Indeed they would ideally prove to be a significant deterrent to cheaters.

Another relatively simple thing that the sites could do is implement some basic checks in the software that check for relatively basic things and then act swiftly on these triggers. This is almost definitely a non-runner though as it takes manpower and it also would need people who can incorporate this into the software. Given the amount of obvious bugs in quite a few of the current crop of poker clients I won't be holding my breath that such companies have the quality of staff needed to do this.

Related to the last point is the urgent need for the pokersites to actually enforce their own rules about what software assistance is allowed or not. The amount of people datamining on stars for example could be tackled fairly easily if the company wanted. Considering that stars is probably the site that currently seems to be most aware of security issues it says a lot about how far other sites have to come!

What's above is not meant as a dig at anyone in particular so don't take it like that - it's just my view on what's wrong with online poker in terms of security at the moment.

Totally correct and very good post.

I look into setting up a licence company with the poker industry and also something that could track cheats etc. After contacting 2 or 3 main players I gave up, they didn't want to pay for it and they didn't see a need to protect the players. That was enough for me.

BigCityBanker

eoghan104 wrote: »

In John O'Sheas Blog he talks about getting into a big game splitting the action with Dave Callaghan and goes on to say that its great to have Dave sweating him because he is such a good player.

Now is there no rule on Ipoker about one player to an account? How is it fair for someone to sit in to a game thinking they are playing John O'Shea when in fact they are playing two people with one of them being probably the best Omaha player in Ireland?!

I know everyone will say "oh this happens all the time" but its cheating IMO.

I honestly cant tell you if iPoker enforce a one player to a hand rule. I dont think the rule is in place and tbh i dont have time to check it just now.

As for the above situation, I personally dont see it as cheating and if you do then i think you should start a campaign to outlaw all traing sites and coaching.

FWIW, I personally have received coaching from John where I am playing and he is sweating me and advising me on best lines etc and I dont believe I am cheating in doing so.

Ollieboy wrote: »

within a day of "thevOid" been caught it was made public by Stars that he cheat.

without meaning to be pedantic I am pretty sure that Stars didnt come out and say he cheated. In fact I would bet on it. They did announce that they had disqualified somebody for reasons undisclosed and people drew there own conclusions.

Chucky the tree wrote: »

A few questions BCB, has anyone who finished top ten in the huge rakeraces Ipoker do ever been banned for having multiply people use the one account? Also, do you think having a rule where if a player plays over 17 hours in a day will have those extra points deducted by a forumla is a good enough measure to discourage account sharing?

I dont honestly know if anybody has been disqualified.

Am I happy about this whole situation? No, and I have made my thoughts known to iPoker about this. This forms part of our rationale for not subscribing to the last two network races (the current one and another one which was aborted)

karlh wrote: »

?

with respect Karl due to you posting this pic it would be very easy for somebody to scan the thread and misinterpret that Big C had been done for cheating. I dont have pics of Devilfish at the ready to pump into every thread that gets started about his ridiculous hair or whatever that is on his head. A bit of common sense goes a long way.

newbie2

here you go Noel

karlh

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/joke

if you want any other pictures of Devilfish's hair let me know.

Wolves

Recently I played a satellite on stars with 6 places paid. With 7 players left the BB is 2000 and someone raises all in for 2015. The BB folds. This seemed like obvious collusion as the BB was huge chip leader and had taken out the previous few players and was raising about 90% of hands at this stage (obv i went out 7th).

I reported this to stars and they gave me a very comprehensive reply detailing the location of both accounts and the fact they had never used same IP addresses etc.

They also gave me history of 2 hands earlier in the same tournament when the same 2 players played big pots against each other (i wasn't on their table at this stage) in which they could have been eliminated from the tournament (eg. AIPF on 50/50s).

I am satisfied now that they were not in fact colluding and this is just a freak hand when mistakes were made by the player or maybe he just wanted to mess around as he was basically guaranteed a spot already.

I think stars should be commended for their quick reply and would very much doubt that any other site would have handled this to my satisfaction.

Other sites insistance that these things are not made public and even the failures to respond to those who express genuine concerns are nothing short of a disgrace. Sort it out.

sickpuppy

If people are not happy with ipoker dont play there,
i have disconnection problems so dont.
Just a quick question has anyone been reimbursed from say a stt on ipoker ?
i know people have had emails from pokerstars saying we had cheaters heres your money back they have been banned etc.

I dont know if it happens on other networks that they send you notice of cheats in your game but i know stars do.
The problem possible being that ipoker is full of diff skins and they couldnt be arsed checking it thoroughly i blame the jews myself arent they at fault for everything.

Bcb id give up on that auld coaching the last time i saw you play plo in the fitz got it in bst hand 3 times got ass raped each time

BigCityBanker

karlh wrote: »

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/joke

if you want any other pictures of Devilfish's hair let me know.

oh no, i got the joke. I havent lost my humor. As I said above people may get the wrong idea cos you have quoted something about cheating followed by a pic of Ciaran.

strewelpeter

BigCityBanker wrote: »

Like, AIB doesnt take a one page add in the Times detailing their encryption policies? ofc not, why would you want to make people wise to the best way to break a system?
.

Sigh!

I have to take you up on this Noel, because you are totally wrong and I'm a bit surprised* that you as someone who has worked in banking and online poker fails so comprehensively to get what security is about.

To summarise a field have spent years working on in a few bullet points:

Security by obfuscation is no security at all.
The general detail for all security mechanisms and encryption schemes used in banking and any financial system are well known and available in the public domain.
Everything but the specific secret keys used should be known publicly.
Where a system is compromised it is permissible to keep a lid on the details of how the system was compromised only for as much time as it takes to repair the systems and install defences against the breach.


* Edit: Actually I'm not even a little bit surprised It is exactly the level of knowledge of one of the fundamental aspects of their business that I have come to expect from third rate banks and online businesses.

RoundTower

this thread is so confusing, I should be weighing in to troll someone around here but I can't figure out who

strewelpeter

RoundTower wrote: »

this thread is so confusing, I should be weighing in to troll someone around here but I can't figure out who

In the light of his I am a dole sponger and I'm proud of it post I reckon this Post is a good place to start :cool:

NickyOD wrote: »

Cheats should be named and shamed, end of story. This is the best deterrent for future cheats.

I Lol'd (out loud, even ! )

El Stuntman

strewelpeter wrote: »

In the light of his I am a dole sponger and I'm proud of it post I reckon this Post is a good place to start :cool:

I Lol'd (out loud, even ! )

but his self-justification was a work of art, pure genius!

I'm still wondering how many other poker pros are on the dole, ocallagh was the only one to respond (he's not)

RoundTower

El Stuntman wrote: »

but his self-justification was a work of art, pure genius!

I'm still wondering how many other poker pros are on the dole, ocallagh was the only one to respond (he's not)

im not

I'm pretty sure Reggie "the bin" Cromwell is though.

Samba

.

sickpuppy

Anyone playing hu limit sngs dserves to be shafted whata horrible way to play poker.

fatguy

sickpuppy wrote: »

Anyone playing limit poker deserves to be shafted, what a horrible way to play poker.

I agree so much that I fixed your typing.

PokerPissTaker

The point I was trying to make was that I asked this employee for a simply reply and got, quite clearly, lied to. Whoever of you think that he was flkiping with 8 mad scandi's and finished +ve 200+ stacks is just insane. There is no way he spun $50 into exactly £11750 in a sitting or in a few tables table hopping.

I don't think as player's that we should be lied too when we ask question's of our server. It's that simple.

thedini

he didn't flip it up. I sat down in a limit table yesterday by mistake, because limit is listed first. I was allowed to bring any amount I wished to the table, this has happened a few times, it's a glitch in the software.

fatguy

I don't think as player's that we should be lied too when we ask question's of our server. It's that simple.

I know this is a cliche but it's something I've taken to living my life by:

Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity.

You got a bad CSR who fobbed you off. It happens.

PokerPissTaker

This is quite obviously what happened. And yet I was told on several occasion's that "Damien" was on the phone to iPoker as we spoke who had confirmed that he had won the money sat at a table.

An utter disgrace

Lazare

PokerPissTaker wrote: »

An utter disgrace

Yeah, your attitude to that rep was alright.