Earthquakes To Return To Europe

prinz

Tellox wrote: »

I would consider anyone who can demonstrate proof of psychic-like prediction, convert elements in changing water to wine, multiplying physical forms and elements such as fish/bread, and rising from the dead to be superhuman. I dont think many Christians would also agree that Jesus was simply an "above average" person.

He was filled with the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit worked through Him, just as it has worked through many people down the ages right to today to a lesser degree. Jesus, imo didn't physically multiply the loaves and fish, He allowed His faith in God, and the power of the Holy Spirit to be used though Him here on Earth.

The very point of His coming on Earth was the fact that He was a human, like the rest of us. However He was able to overcome the inherent weaknesses and frailties that the rest of us struggle with daily, as a sign that when we accept God and allow the Holy Spirit to work within and through us we too can become better people.

Imo when Jesus asked 'Why have you foresaken me?' on the cross, He was acknowledging the fact that He was just as human as the rest of us in a moment of weakness, hoping that God or the Holy Spirit would intervene in His execution. Jesus did not act alone.

Tellox

prinz wrote: »

He was filled with the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit worked through Him, just as it has worked through many people down the ages right to today to a lesser degree. Jesus, imo didn't physically multiply the loaves and fish, He allowed His faith in God, and the power of the Holy Spirit to be used though Him here on Earth.

The very point of His coming on Earth was the fact that He was a human, like the rest of us. However He was able to overcome the inherent weaknesses and frailties that the rest of us struggle with daily, as a sign that when we accept God and allow the Holy Spirit to work within and through us we too can become better people.

This still doesn't make sense. An average human cannot allow his body to become possessed by one/two other earthly beings. If a man was seen flying over Dublin and later claimed that another being which is being channelled through his body is causing him to fly, he would be declared the superhuman - not whatever it was that's possessing him.

Im sure there's plenty of people here and throughout the world who have "accepted god and allowed the holy spirit to work within and through them", but I'm yet to see any of them perform the feats which are attributed to Christ.

prinz

Tellox wrote: »

This still doesn't make sense. An average human cannot allow his body to become possessed by one/two other earthly beings. If a man was seen flying over Dublin and later claimed that another being which is being channelled through his body is causing him to fly, he would be declared the superhuman - not whatever it was that's possessing him.

Many perceived super-human acts have been documented and witnessed. It doesn't make the person superhuman.

Tellox wrote: »

Im sure there's plenty of people here and throughout the world who have "accepted god and allowed the holy spirit to work within and through them", but I'm yet to see any of them perform the feats which are attributed to Christ.

The problem is is that Jesus was sent here for that specific purpose. Nobody else was.

Tellox

prinz wrote: »

Many perceived super-human acts have been documented and witnessed. It doesn't make the person superhuman.

What? Name one with factual (non documented religious scripture) evidence to back it up.

And in my opinion, performing a superhuman act does indeed make you a superhuman. Just like going to work makes you a worker.

The problem is is that Jesus was sent here for that specific purpose. Nobody else was.

That's a bit opinionated too - how can you prove I wasn't sent here for the specific purpose of telling you all how to live and die?

prinz

Tellox wrote: »

What? Name one with factual (non documented religious scripture) evidence to back it up.

I will look into that later on.However there have been many instances, particularly in times of stress, danger, etc. Many stories of soldiers performing feats of strength which they should not have been capable of during a battle for example.

Tellox wrote: »

That's a bit opinionated too - how can you prove I wasn't sent here for the specific purpose of telling you all how to live and die?

It's not opinion it's faith.There's a difference.

For example I have no faith in your opinion of yourself.

Tellox

prinz wrote: »

I will look into that later on.However there have been many instances, particularly in times of stress, danger, etc. Many stories of soldiers performing feats of strength which they should not have been capable of during a battle for example.

Adrenaline is not voodoo. I look forward to seeing actual examples.

It's not opinion it's faith.There's a difference.

No there is not. I can have faith in the fact that when I tell women I have an Enzo at home, one will appear when I arrive there - unfortunately, it's only when proven wrong that I can dub it opinion. Faith is simply the pre-product of opinion.

For example I have no faith in your opinion of yourself.

By your measure of faith, you're saying you don't believe in how I view myself? So you disregard someone's opinion on themselves based on your faith? Do go on.

prinz

Tellox wrote: »

Adrenaline is not voodoo. I look forward to seeing actual examples.

If you're waiting for your flying man example...keep waiting.Would you call voluntarily sacrificing your own life for a perfect stranger a human trait?

Tellox wrote: »

No there is not. I can have faith in the fact that when I tell women I have an Enzo at home, one will appear when I arrive there - unfortunately, it's only when proven wrong that I can dub it opinion. Faith is simply the pre-product of opinion.

You cannot have faith in your own imagination.That's called being delusional not faithful.

Tellox wrote: »

By your measure of faith, you're saying you don't believe in how I view myself? So you disregard someone's opinion on themselves based on your faith? Do go on.

By your measure of opinion, you're saying you don't believe I can have faith in something other than myself. You have been patently disregarding other posters faith based on your opinions so continue. I haven't disregarded anything everyone is free to any opinion they choose, anyhow my low level of regard is not due to my faith, it's due to my intelligence.

Unfortunately, my regard for your opinions has just dropped again, it's hard to take someone referring to an 'Enzo' seriously imo

Tellox

prinz wrote: »

If you're waiting for your flying man example...keep waiting.Would you call voluntarily sacrificing your own life for a perfect stranger a human trait?

It's normal to wait for earthquakes to signify the end of times, and for a man to be possessed by spirits who can channel godlike powers through him - but not a flying man? Personally, I wouldn't hold any faith in either - but each to their own on that matter, I was simply drawing conclusions based on what you've been telling me.

You cannot have faith in your own imagination.That's called being delusional not faithful.

I disagree. You have faith based on someone elses imagination - this is no more delusional than one person thinking it against millions of people thinking it.

By your measure of opinion, you're saying you don't believe I can have faith in something other than myself. You have been patently disregarding other posters faith based on your opinions so continue. I haven't disregarded anything everyone is free to any opinion they choose, anyhow my low level of regard is not due to my faith, it's due to my intelligence.

That's a bit hypocritical, isn't it? What you're doing right now is disregarding my opinions for your own, and I'll admit freely to doing the exact same to you. And intelligence is not directly proportional to your regard for anything. Your opinions however, are. Which is all this whole thing is - a mess of scattered opinions. I at least can sit back and state that while I do believe in some form of higher power, nobody on this earth can tell me who or what it is.

Unfortunately, my regard for your opinions has just dropped again, it's hard to take someone referring to an 'Enzo' seriously imo

..Your opinion on someone drops because they mention a car name?

AtomicHorror

prinz wrote: »

You cannot have faith in your own imagination.That's called being delusional not faithful.

And how do you determine the difference between the two?

prinz

Tellox wrote: »

It's normal to wait for earthquakes to signify the end of times, and for a man to be possessed by spirits who can channel godlike powers through him - but not a flying man? Personally, I wouldn't hold any faith in either - but each to their own on that matter, I was simply drawing conclusions based on what you've been telling me.

You were looking for evidence. Sorry but I don't know any flying men. I do however know of people doing super-human things. Apologies they don't wear their undies on the outside.

Tellox wrote: »

I disagree. You have faith based on someone elses imagination - this is no more delusional than one person thinking it against millions of people thinking it.

Having faith in someone else yes. Having 'faith' in what you know to be false imagination is delusional, not having faith.

Tellox wrote: »

That's a bit hypocritical, isn't it? What you're doing right now is disregarding my opinions for your own, and I'll admit freely to doing the exact same to you. And intelligence is not directly proportional to your regard for anything. Your opinions however, are. Which is all this whole thing is - a mess of scattered opinions. I at least can sit back and state that while I do believe in some form of higher power, nobody on this earth can tell me who or what it is.

Nobody was trying to.Everyone is entitled to their opinions. They are also entitled to disregard the opinions of others...

Tellox wrote: »

..Your opinion on someone drops because they mention a car name?

Not my opinion, my regard.As a matter of interest do you call a Ford a 'Henry'?

Malari

prinz wrote: »

Not my opinion, my regard.As a matter of interest do you call a Ford a 'Henry'?

LOL! An Enzo IS a car model!

And everyone knows Henry is a vacuum cleaner!

prinz

AtomicHorror wrote: »

And how do you determine the difference between the two?

Having faith in someone or something other than yourself is possible.If my mate tells me he did something, I can have faith in him that he is true to his word and he did it. If I tell myself I have done something, when I haven't, I cannot have faith in that.....

Believing your house has turned to gold while you were at work..... you cannot have faith in that.That's imagination -- trying to have faith in that is actually having delusions, that what you believe is reality.If you catch me.

prinz

Malari wrote: »

LOL! An Enzo IS a car model!

And everyone knows Henry is a vacuum cleaner!

Great contribution.You're awesome. I am well aware of the Ferrari Enzo ta.

AtomicHorror

prinz wrote: »

Having faith in someone or something other than yourself is possible.If my mate tells me he did something, I can have faith in him that he is true to his word and he did it. If I tell myself I have done something, when I haven't, I cannot have faith in that.....

Believing your house has turned to gold while you were at work..... you cannot have faith in that.That's imagination -- trying to have faith in that is actually having delusions, that what you believe is reality.If you catch me.

I do, but I'm more concerned with how you tell the difference between faith in God and imagination.

prinz

AtomicHorror wrote: »

I do, but I'm more concerned with how you tell the difference between faith in God and imagination.

I haven't had any burning bush moments, miracles á la Jesus, conversations with God. What I do have is faith that others have, and that they've shared the truth with me, not for any obvious gain. That people have willingly died horrible deaths rather than admit they were imagining/fabricating things.

Malari

prinz wrote: »

Great contribution.You're awesome. I am well aware of the Ferrari Enzo ta.

Well, clearly you weren't aware. But you did provide me with a laugh. I know I'm awsome, I'm glad you have faith in me.

By the way, why do you think the fact that people die horrible deaths rather than admit they were imagining things has to do with faith, rather than mental illness?

prinz

Malari wrote: »

Well, clearly you weren't aware. But you did provide me with a laugh. I know I'm awsome, I'm glad you have faith in me.

By the way, why do you think the fact that people die horrible deaths rather than admit they were imagining things has to do with faith, rather than mental illness?

Factually I was, however this is not the first time I've come across someone referring to an Enzo, not to the model but as a generic 'cool' name to reference all Ferraris. Which is just a pointless exercise.

As for the rest I won't even bother.

Malari

prinz wrote: »

As for the rest I won't even bother.

So you can't tell the difference between faith and imagination? The "obvious gain" of which you speak is that they believe it themselves, but doesn't explain why anyone else would, just because they say so.

Tellox

prinz wrote: »

You were looking for evidence. Sorry but I don't know any flying men. I do however know of people doing super-human things. Apologies they don't wear their undies on the outside.

Stop dodging the question and make with the facts.

Having faith in someone else yes. Having 'faith' in what you know to be false imagination is delusional, not having faith.

That very sentance is hypocritical of itself, and makes little to no sense.

Nobody was trying to.Everyone is entitled to their opinions. They are also entitled to disregard the opinions of others...

Weren't you just blathering on about respecting everyone's opinions only a few posts back?

Not my opinion, my regard.As a matter of interest do you call a Ford a 'Henry'?

I'm glad google solved your car/vacuum dilemma in the end.

This is the reason I never argue with you people. You seem to try to annoy people into submission, without never actually answering any questions. You're like politicians but without the money or power.

coffee_cake

prinz wrote: »

I haven't had any burning bush moments, miracles á la Jesus, conversations with God. What I do have is faith that others have, and that they've shared the truth with me, not for any obvious gain. That people have willingly died horrible deaths rather than admit they were imagining/fabricating things.

I'm surprised at the amount of "people have died for the truth" posts as if they were proof of anything at all, what about the woman who thought god was talking to her and shot her son and herself - she died for her truth...

/sigh

Helix

Pamela111 wrote: »

Sadly, as a result of the movement towards heresy and abondment of the simple rules agreed between Abraham and God, of which we are decendants the cup of Wrath will be spread more widespread.

Rome and Italy, the home of the greatest Saints and of the Roman Catholic Church was hit just recently.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090406/ap_on_re_eu/eu_italy_earthquake

Already to mark the "end of times" we have had the Tsunami which killed 350,000 in one of the most sinful parts of the world. Europe and the USA must now receive the correction whilst Asia nations must see an increase also. Earthquakes will come to all of Europe, not just Italy but France and Spain also. The USA must also be brought to its knees.

Its a pity it has come to this but this is the way it must go.

The protection for humans is the Holy Rosary

is your surname phelps by any chance?

bloody hell

PDN

bluewolf wrote: »

I'm surprised at the amount of "people have died for the truth" posts as if they were proof of anything at all, what about the woman who thought god was talking to her and shot her son and herself - she died for her truth...

Er, maybe you should actually read the posts, and the responses to them, in order to understand the point being made.

The point is that a large amount of eye-witnesses that are prepared to die rather than deny what they have seen is an indication, but certainly not proof, that something actually happened.

As I see it you are faced with the following choices:
1. The whole lot of them were barking mad. Nuts enough to die for the sake of something that never happened. Obviously some mass outbreak like mad cow disease or something.
2. They were all liars - and apparently such confirmed liars that they wouldn't retract their stories to save their lives, and therefore died for the sake of something they knew to be false.
3. They were all fooled by Jesus who, rather than being nice and holy, was really a manipulative control-freak capable of pulling better magic tricks than Penn & Teller.
4. They actually witnessed the Resurrection.

Now, you may not find that very convincing, but a lot of people, including some eminent historians, have done so.

prinz

Tellox wrote: »

Stop dodging the question and make with the facts.

I haven't dodged the question.However if superman is what you're looking for I don't have any evidence. If you're interested in people performing feats which under normal circumstances they wouldn't be able to do, or acting in a manner that transcends human norms then yes.

Tellox wrote: »

That very sentance is hypocritical of itself, and makes little to no sense.

It is not hypocritical and it does make sense.So

Tellox wrote: »

Weren't you just blathering on about respecting everyone's opinions only a few posts back?

Do you know the difference between respecting someone's right to an opinion and holding it in regard as an intelligent opinion?

Tellox wrote: »

I'm glad google solved your car/vacuum dilemma in the end.

Once again .Go away, grow up, form a proper opinion and come back.

Tellox wrote: »

This is the reason I never argue with you people. You seem to try to annoy people into submission, without never actually answering any questions. You're like politicians but without the money or power.

Thanks, now I have no further reason to reply to any tripe you care to post. You come to a Christian forum as usual and I'm 'annoying' you into submission. Tbh I have no reason to answer anything for you.

prinz

bluewolf wrote: »

I'm surprised at the amount of "people have died for the truth" posts as if they were proof of anything at all, what about the woman who thought god was talking to her and shot her son and herself - she died for her truth...

/sigh

She also had a long history of mental institutions. Doesn't make any difference who she thought was talking to her. It could have been a box of cornflakes, the result would be the same. If you read up on the facts you'd see that what she said and did had nothing to do with God.

coffee_cake

prinz wrote: »

She also had a long history of mental institutions. Doesn't make any difference who she thought was talking to her. It could have been a box of cornflakes, the result would be the same. If you read up on the facts you'd see that what she said and did had nothing to do with God.

Yeah, because you don't like the outcome...
I suppose I could be terribly cliche and bring up the Isaac story

@ PDN, I did indeed read them, I'll settle for a little of column a, b, c And throw in a little self-convincing based on hope, as well.

AtomicHorror

prinz wrote: »

I haven't had any burning bush moments, miracles á la Jesus, conversations with God. What I do have is faith that others have, and that they've shared the truth with me, not for any obvious gain. That people have willingly died horrible deaths rather than admit they were imagining/fabricating things.

Yeah, but people have done all of those things for Gods that are nothing like yours.

prinz

bluewolf wrote: »

Yeah, because you don't like the outcome...

Ehm. No because she was mentally unwell. She also referred to herself and her family as King, Queen and Prince. Do you also blame the institution of monarchy for the fact she shot her son and killed herself?

prinz

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Yeah, but people have done all of those things for Gods that are nothing like yours.

So? I'm not questioning anyone else's faith.I have no idea what that has to do with anything.

coffee_cake

prinz wrote: »

Ehm. No because she was mentally unwell. She also referred to herself and her family as King, Queen and Prince. Do you also blame the institution of monarchy for the fact she shot her son and killed herself?

no, my original point was killing oneself/dying for one's beliefs isn't always what it's cracked up to be

prinz

bluewolf wrote: »

no, my original point was killing oneself/dying for one's beliefs isn't always what it's cracked up to be

She didn't, so your point doesn't stand up.