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Being an Atheist in Ireland is a Cnut

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12467…22

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    #92
    bigeasyeah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,290 ✭✭✭bigeasyeah


    There is a forum that caters especially for topics like this.


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    #93
    Zillah
    Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    Memetic triumph!

    Dudess, there is a big difference between saying "I do not believe in God" and saying "There is absolutely no possibility that God could exist". I don't believe in Vampires but I still wouldn't say it's absolutely impossible. Evidence can, nay must, convince me.


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    #94
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    bigeasyeah wrote: »
    There is a forum that caters especially for topics like this.

    7 pages of posts in, i'd say your right.. after hours is catering for it quite well.


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    #95
    Sam Vimes
    Registered Users Posts: 21,611 ✭✭✭✭Sam Vimes


    Jakkass wrote: »
    I think we can be both hardened enough. I don't consider that a good thing, and I think most of it is due to tone. I would entertain another discussion with you at another point if you would be willing for a second, not to assume that you know everything that is to be known about the average Christian experience, or about the Christian faith. That's all I expect in a discussion. That's what agnostics do better than atheists, IMO.

    The problem there Jakkass is that I have quoted examples of things from religion and you have given me interpretations that completely go against everything I have ever been told on the matter, all the conventional wisdom on the matter, all forms of logic and what appears to be written in front of me, all because, in my opinion, you don't want it to mean what it actually means because that doesn't fit with what you want to be true. For example,
    Chronicles 15:13 wrote:
    and whoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, man or woman.
    http://bible.cc/2_chronicles/15-13.htm

    That is quite clearly our benevolent and loving creator telling us to kill anyone who doesn't believe in him. It is also in direct conflict to the bit about "thou shalt not kill" from Exodus. How do you reconcile that with your idea of a moral god? Or do you agree with it?


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    #96
    shamblertine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 888 ✭✭✭shamblertine


    Stercus Accidit wrote: »

    That is also an atheist trait, we don't know there isnt a god, but we also don't know there isnt (cliche alert) a magic unicorn in my back garden, a flying spaghetti monster spewing fire and raviolli, heck, you don't even know if I have a back garden or not, but some of these ideas are possible, some ludicrous.


    The difference is, theres plenty of evidence that Jesus existed.


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    #97
    Sam Vimes
    Registered Users Posts: 21,611 ✭✭✭✭Sam Vimes


    shamblertine wrote: »
    The difference is, theres plenty of evidence that Jesus existed.

    True, and there is evidence that Paris exists which is where the book the Da Vinci code was set. That does not mean the the Da Vinci code is a documentary.


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    #98
    shamblertine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 888 ✭✭✭shamblertine


    Galvasean wrote: »

    I would love it if tomorrow a group of palaeontologists (great guys BTW) dug up the remains of an extinct relative of the horse that had a long horn pertruding from it's forhead.

    Theres no need to dig anything up:

    http://blog.wired.com/wiredscience/2008/06/unicorns-are-re.html


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    #99
    dublinario
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 633 ✭✭✭dublinario


    shamblertine wrote: »
    The difference is, theres plenty of evidence that Jesus existed.

    He's right. A "JESUS WOZ ERE" scrawled on a freshly unearthed temple wall in Bethlehem was recently carbon-dated to 15 AD.


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    #100
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    zeppe wrote: »
    Do you know what really cracks me up? The f**kin "immaculate conception". WTF! It sounds like something Mary made up on the spot to Joseph, as a bare arsed sandal salesman legs it out the back window..Oh yeah, it probably was.

    ATHEIST and proud

    Mary is the Immaculate Conception she was born without sin.


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    #101
    bigeasyeah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,290 ✭✭✭bigeasyeah


    Deleted User wrote: »
    7 pages of posts in, i'd say your right.. after hours is catering for it quite well.

    No it isnt.


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    #102
    Dave!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,857 ✭✭✭✭Dave!


    Sam Vimes wrote: »
    The problem there Jakkass is that I have quoted examples of things from religion and you have given me interpretations that completely go against everything I have ever been told on the matter, all the conventional wisdom on the matter, all forms of logic and what appears to be written in front of me, all because, in my opinion, you don't want it to mean what it actually means because that doesn't fit with what you want to be true. For example,


    http://bible.cc/2_chronicles/15-13.htm

    That is quite clearly our benevolent and loving creator telling us to kill anyone who doesn't believe in him. It is also in direct conflict to the bit about "thou shalt not kill" from Exodus. How do you reconcile that with your idea of a moral god? Or do you agree with it?


    Not to mention the 'slavery' discussion... I mean, WOW....


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    #103
    Stercus Accidit
    Registered Users Posts: 8,758 ✭✭✭Stercus Accidit


    shamblertine wrote: »
    The difference is, theres plenty of evidence that Jesus existed.

    Jesus was a man, thats it.

    I'm a man too, big woop.


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    #104
    Zillah
    Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    shamblertine wrote: »
    The difference is, theres plenty of evidence that Jesus existed.

    No evidence he had magic powers though.
    Elmo wrote: »
    I am just stating that as a country we have a drink problem and I think both of those days reflect that as I said this has nothing to do with religion, for me it just happens that both day are traditional religious if tomorrow to government changed the days that a pub closes down from Good Friday to the Friday before the Bank Holiday weekend in May I wouldn't have a problem. I just think it is a good health campaign. Sin É.

    Also your not prevent from drinking since most people go to the Offy on Holy Thursday, and well Christmas is only about drinking in this country. I am just suggesting its good to close pubs etc down on two days of the year, I am sure pub employees are happy to have two weekends off.

    I see where you're coming from, but I still disagree. Closing down alcohol retailers achieves nothing more than inconvenience and has no justification beyond a religious one.


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    #105
    Sam Vimes
    Registered Users Posts: 21,611 ✭✭✭✭Sam Vimes


    Dave! wrote: »
    Not to mention the 'slavery' discussion... I mean, WOW....

    Oh we've been over this with Jakkass. Slaves in the olden days weren't like slaves we think of. Sure they had to work for no money and weren't allowed go free but they were more like workers, except that they didn't have a choice in the matter but we ignore that bit


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    #106
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Sam Vimes wrote: »
    The problem there Jakkass is that I have quoted examples of things from religion and you have given me interpretations that completely go against everything I have ever been told on the matter, all the conventional wisdom on the matter, all forms of logic and what appears to be written in front of me, all because, in my opinion, you don't want it to mean wht it actually means because that doesn't fit with what you want to be true. For example,

    Sam, I'm not interested in any debate where you somehow think that you have everything about Christianity sussed out. It's a waste of time, and nothing will be gleaned from it.

    Interpretations that you have been told where and by who? Those two questions are crucially important. Just because I have a different viewpoint to others doesn't mean I should be automatically deemed in error?

    As for all forms of logic, I really think this is absurd. I explained everything clearly to you in that thread. You are without excuse in that regard. However let's not derail this thread. Please PM me if you have any more issues.
    Sam Vimes wrote: »
    That is quite clearly our benevolent and loving creator telling us to kill anyone who doesn't believe in him. It is also in direct conflict to the bit about "thou shalt not kill" from Exodus. How do you reconcile that with your idea of a moral god? Or do you agree with it?

    I've told you, I won't be dealing with your posts here. I believe you'll find it's referring to murder in the passage in Exodus 20. Murder = unlawful killing.

    It's unfair to the OP to get into a theological discussion in the middle of this thread.


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    #107
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    bigeasyeah wrote: »
    No it isnt.
    This forum's name may not be Atheism & Agnosticism but a debate on atheism seems to be rumbling along here just fine.


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    #108
    Stercus Accidit
    Registered Users Posts: 8,758 ✭✭✭Stercus Accidit


    Zillah wrote: »
    No evidence he had magic powers though.

    I've been wondering lately if he just ran a vineyard...
    Zillah wrote: »
    Closing down alcohol retailers achieves nothing more than inconvenience and has no justification beyond a religious one.

    If one of the less popular religions had days where we couldn't legally buy pork, people would be up in arms, regardless of whether having one less breakfast roll would be good for you.


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    #109
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Zillah wrote: »
    I see where you're coming from, but I still disagree. Closing down alcohol retailers achieves nothing more than inconvenience and has no justification beyond a religious one.

    Mine is a health awareness campaign :) I think that is justification enough TBH. We binge drink far too much in the country. Cheaper then most health campaigns. IMO.


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    #110
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Dave! wrote: »
    Not to mention the 'slavery' discussion... I mean, WOW....

    Wow, I disagreed with you, and provided textual evidence to back up my view that the slavery of the Torah is not comparable to the preconceptions of people concerning it today.

    Just because I disagree with you, doesn't mean that I'm clinically insane or something.


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    #111
    anonymous_joe
    Registered Users Posts: 9,255 ✭✭✭anonymous_joe


    One thing I've noticed in recent years is the number of people I know who've 'discovered' atheism, and are more fervent than born-again Christians.

    I don't give a fúck what they do or don't believe, and yet they preach to everyone constantly.

    Most old people in this country were raised in a very Catholic country, and not really encouraged to question any of the church's values. I went to a ludicrously religious school, and yet, despite all that, it was some of the priests who were encouraged us to question religion more than anything else, even acknowledging flaws etc in their own religion.

    Such an approach is relatively recent though, and it's no wonder older people aren't as accepting of atheism, agnosticism, etc.


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    #112
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    dublinario wrote: »
    He's right. A "JESUS WOZ ERE" scrawled on a freshly unearthed temple wall in Bethlehem was recently carbon-dated to 15 AD.
    Yeah, I read recently about a "Jesus luvz Mary Magdalene 4-eva" sighting...


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    #113
    shamblertine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 888 ✭✭✭shamblertine


    Zillah wrote: »
    No evidence he had magic powers though.



    There is evidence he performed miracles and evidence of the resurrection


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    #114
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Stercus Accidit wrote: »
    If one of the less popular religions had days where we couldn't legally buy pork, people would be up in arms, regardless of whether having one less breakfast roll would be good for you.

    Well that would be everyday. I know pork can be bad for you but I don't think it is as bad as Alcohol. We wouldn't be able to eat crickets either :(


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    #115
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    bigeasyeah wrote: »
    No it isnt.

    how else will we get regular peoples opinions if the debate is held in a specific forum where only people with strong views on the subject visit.


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    #116
    Zillah
    Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    Elmo wrote: »
    Mine is a health awareness campaign :) I think that is justification enough TBH. We binge drink far too much in the country. Cheaper then most health campaigns. IMO.

    Would you also have days where we close down all shops that sell fattening foods? Cigarettes? No high-sugar products day? Where do you draw the line? I draw it at the very start; my health is my concern, not the government's.


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    #117
    Zillah
    Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    shamblertine wrote: »
    There is evidence he performed miracles and evidence of the resurrection

    Is there any evidence other than anonymous texts?

    (Because I'll tell you right now, I saw Thor ten minutes ago and he said that anonymous testimony is unreliable)


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    #118
    Stercus Accidit
    Registered Users Posts: 8,758 ✭✭✭Stercus Accidit


    shamblertine wrote: »
    There is evidence he performed miracles and evidence of the resurrection

    Provide this 'evidence' then.

    Bearing in mind rambling inconsistent texts thousands of years old may come under more scrutiny than you think.

    edit: Zillah in like a shot :)


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    #119
    bigeasyeah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,290 ✭✭✭bigeasyeah


    Dudess wrote: »
    This forum's name may not be Atheism & Agnosticism but a debate on atheism seems to be rumbling along here just fine.

    Oh yeah its rumbling on just fine but you know,to me it just seems a waste of space.Thats all.


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    #120
    994
    Closed Accounts Posts: 911 ✭✭✭994


    You think atheists are treated badly in Ireland, wait till you get to HELL :p


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    #121
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Zillah wrote: »
    Would you also have days where we close down all shops that sell fattening foods? Cigarettes? No high-sugar products day? Where do you draw the line? I draw it at the very start; my health is my concern, not the government's.


    I suggest that you go Private so and get some insurance, because my taxes don't want to foot the bill for your Liver transplant. BTW I agree with the ban of smoking in pubs.

    I agree with free health care too. Interesting. But of the topic. :(


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