Being an Atheist in Ireland is a Cnut

Zillah

Conception, scientifically, is when the sperm fuses with the egg. According to the Catholic Church it is also the moment when the soul gets put in the body and a new individual is created. Conception is the perfect word.

ShooterSF

Another catholic taught a bit more about their beliefs by an atheist. There's something wrong with that statement.

BattyInNZ

ShooterSF wrote: »

Another catholic taught a bit more about their beliefs by an atheist. There's something wrong with that statement.

Why? you're never too old or entrenched in your ways (or shouldn't be) to be able to learn something new.

LookingFor

The one thing that annoys me about how other people deal with aetheism or agnosticism is how some seem to characterise you as not believing in anything if you don't believe in God.

My mother does this with me, in a light hearted manner, but there nonetheless, whenever something requires some faith or belief.

Everything about our existence at one or another level requires taking a leap of faith. I can't prove I exist for example, or that my existence isn't a dream. I have to believe certain things.

But believing in certain things and believing in a God are very different matters, and it annoys me how some folk monopolise the words 'belief' and 'faith' for their respective religions or Gods.

ShooterSF

BattyInNZ wrote: »

Why? you're never too old or entrenched in your ways (or shouldn't be) to be able to learn something new.

True. It's just an unusual source to get it from.

philologos

BattyInNZ wrote: »

See, why do people who disagree with me argue much more than I do? I really really don't care if you don't believe and all your arguments just make me grin because you're trying so desperately hard to prove your point. It's not going to make me change my mind because I've been all over the spectrum of being a Catholic and I've still come back to the conclusion that it's not doing me any harm. I like mantras and what is a prayer only a mantra? It's good for my mental health.

I'm on the same side of the fence as you. I believe in Christianity. I can agree with an atheist occasionally though.

BattyInNZ

BattyInNZ wrote: »

It's not going to make me change my mind because I've been all over the spectrum of being a Catholic and I've still come back to the conclusion that it's not doing me any harm. I like mantras and what is a prayer only a mantra? It's good for my mental health.

Wow. There is just so much fail in this.

Jakkass I respect. I think he's wrong about certain things but at least he seems to have his ideas straight about this stuff. You are essentially saying that whether catholicism is a bag of nonsense or not, sure it does you no harm so why not believe in it? Also, how is talking to someone who isn't there good for your mental health?

BattyInNZ wrote: »

Why? you're never too old or entrenched in your ways (or shouldn't be) to be able to learn something new.

This is a very good view to hold, even if it directly contradicts your statement about nobody being able to change your mind. Everyone kept linking 3rd party websites. I was gonna give you a link to the source material; Ineffabilis Deus proclaimed by Piux IX in 1854 as well as a couple of Papal addresses by John Paul II from 2004 where he muses on the mystery of the Immaculate Conception.

Still, the lads beat me to it.

philologos

Deleted User wrote: »

Wow. There is just so much fail in this.

Jakkass I respect. I think he's wrong about certain things but at least he seems to have his ideas straight about this stuff. You are essentially saying that whether catholicism is a bag of nonsense or not, sure it does you no harm so why not believe in it? Also, how is talking to someone who isn't there good for your mental health?

I think you're wrong too, but we can have a bit of banter about the subject

Jakkass

Jakkass wrote: »

I think you're wrong too, but we can have a bit of banter about the subject

Which I respect.

What I don't respect is ill-thought out positions from people who then proceed to pontificate about issues that they know nothing about as per Batty.

Pub07

Future generations of mankind will be laughing there holes off at the present day Catholics believing in pure superstitions nonsense. Just like we laugh at the beliefs of the mayans, eygpytians, incans, [insert ancient culture here]. If you had've told any of those societys back in the day Im sure they would have plenty of reasons and circumstantial crap as to why God exists but like the Catholics today they had zero actual proof. Funny that.

asdasd

Future generations of mankind will be laughing there holes off at the present day Catholics believing in pure superstitions nonsense.

Probably future generations of religious people will be laughing at a secular society which did not reproduce. Wont be Catholic though.

ShooterSF

Pub07 wrote: »

Future generations of mankind will be laughing there holes off at the present day Catholics believing in pure superstitions nonsense. Just like we laugh at the beliefs of the mayans, eygpytians, incans, [insert ancient culture here]. If you had've told any of those societys back in the day Im sure they would have plenty of reasons and circumstantial crap as to why God exists but like the Catholics today they had zero actual proof. Funny that.

TBF They probably wouldn't have bothered with the debate

pablomakaveli

Pub07 wrote: »

Future generations of mankind will be laughing there holes off at the present day Catholics believing in pure superstitions nonsense. Just like we laugh at the beliefs of the mayans, eygpytians, incans, [insert ancient culture here]. If you had've told any of those societys back in the day Im sure they would have plenty of reasons and circumstantial crap as to why God exists but like the Catholics today they had zero actual proof. Funny that.

Tbh iv never heard anyone laugh at the religions of ancient civilizations. Until just now when i read your post. But i'd say you're fairly alone on that one.

ShooterSF

pablomakaveli wrote: »

Tbh iv never heard anyone laugh at the religions of ancient civilizations. Until just now when i read your post. But i'd say you're fairly alone on that one.

If someone told me they believed in one I might giggle. But then I am immature.

Pub07

pablomakaveli wrote: »

Tbh iv never heard anyone laugh at the religions of ancient civilizations. Until just now when i read your post. But i'd say you're fairly alone on that one.

Ok, 'scoffed' then. You get my point.

pablomakaveli

ShooterSF wrote: »

If someone told me they believed in one I might giggle. But then I am immature.

They're real i tells ya. I go drinking with Anubis and Raa every friday night.

asdasd

Ok, 'scoffed' then. You get my point.

Nope. The number of people who scoff at ancient religions is very very small. It would be childish.

Pub07

asdasd wrote: »

Nope. The number of people who scoff at ancient religions is very very small. It would be childish.

What the hell does it matter if I use the words laughed or scoffed at, I'm making a simple point, can you not understand it, how hard is it to comprehend?? Do I have to spell it out for you? OK I will.

Modern society (including the modern religions) view ancient religions as misguided superstitious nonsense, some of these religions believed cows or the sun or whatever were gods...present day Catholics rightly view that as superstitious nonsense yet they don't realise that future generations of mankind will view their 'beliefs' in the same way.

asdasd

Modern society (including the modern religions) view ancient religions as misguided superstitious nonsense, some of these religions believed cows or the sun or whatever were gods...present day Catholics rightly view that as superstitious nonsense yet they don't realise that future generations of mankind will view their 'beliefs' in the same way.

Why wouldnt they realise that , since clearly Catholics are laughed at by modern atheists anyway.

Your big problem is in assuming that the future is secular. It isnt.

Malari

asdasd wrote: »

Why wouldnt they realise that , since clearly Catholics are laughed at by modern atheists anyway.

Your big problem is in assuming that the future is secular. It isnt.

Can you tell us what else is going on in the future, y'know, as you're looking?

asdasd

Can you tell us what else is going on in the future, y'know, as you're looking?

asdasd looks into his crystal ball: He finds that

It will be hotter. People will be on average richer ( baring a catastrophe), India and China will become super-powers, the West will have a much smaller percentage of world GDP, and oil will be more expensive.

telemachus

It's a complete joke, of course it's not a "cnut" being an atheist in modern Ireland, it's obviously a "cnut" being anything but an atheist if you happen to under the age of 30 (over 30's get a condescending "ah bless they're part of another generation" free pass). Are people under the illusion that suddenly the general population turned into highly intelligent philosophers, all that's happened is that the accepted societal norm has changed, and instead of embracing the church like lemmings, everyones embracing overly simplistic Dawkins thinking like lemmings. I'm sure there's a small handful with genuinely deeply thought out convictions, but as with any time period, the overwhelming majority are just products of their society.

condra

I love being an atheist in Ireland.

Watching an evil, corrupt, controlling, brain-washing, perverted organisation fall apart at the seams is the most inspiring thing for someone like myself.

It once had almost complete control over my country, and it still owns a lot of land and has a certain influence over the laws here, but as time goes on it is losing control. It was always rotting from its core, but now it is being systematically dismantled by people who want what is best for everyone.

People are saying no to corruption and superstition, and are embracing the endevour for freedom of speech, freedom from childhood indoctrination, the search for truth and the hope of justice.

There has never been a better time, or a better place to be a free thinker.

PDN

Malari wrote: »

Can you tell us what else is going on in the future, y'know, as you're looking?

For that you'd be better off asking demographers:

http://www.prospect-magazine.co.uk/article_details.php?id=7913

Apparently they're expecting Europe to get more religious.

philologos

PDN, The Economist 7th Nov 2007 also had a whole topic on this. They expect a resurgence in belief in Europe by 2040, and a rapid growth elsewhere.

telemachus

womoma wrote: »

I love being an atheist in Ireland.

but now it is being systematically dismantled by people who want what is best for everyone.


There has never been a better time, or a better place to be a free thinker.

I have a visceral scepticism about anyone desscribed as "wanting what's best for everyone", and as for a time of free thought, it's a good time to "think freely" along accepted societal norms, which happen to generally be along atheistic lines if you are roughly under the age of thirty. I think it's complete nonsense to believe that we have miraculously been blessed with a generation of vastly improved intellect and reasoning, societys tastes have changed, as they will again in time.

condra

telemachus wrote: »

.. it's a good time to "think freely" along accepted societal norms, which happen to generally be along atheistic lines if you are roughly under the age of thirty. I think it's complete nonsense to believe that we have miraculously been blessed with a generation of vastly improved intellect and reasoning, societys tastes have changed, as they will again in time.

How naive. We are (in this country at least) becomming more enlightened for a number of reasons. "Trends in taste" is only one of many factors. I don't have any statistics, but I suspect it is not just the under 30s who are turning their backs on the church.

Only for some sort of unprecidented messed up fascist regime, Ireland will never be going back to the dark old days of mass superstition. If you think Catholicism will somehow become "fashionable" again on its own merit, or because of some sort of ebbing social trend, you need your head examined.

Sorry man, its over. The cult of Jesus lost.

So its contraception all round, healthy doses of critical enquiry, more transparent people in power, and safer bottoms for the kids.

Happy days I would say.

philologos

womoma wrote: »

How naive. We are (in this country at least) becomming more enlightened for a number of reasons. "Trends in taste" is only one of many factors. I don't have any statistics, but I suspect it is not just the under 30s who are turning their backs on the church.

I'd find that you are the one who is naiive. Thinking that suddenly Christianity is going to disappear from Ireland is quite delusional actually.

womoma wrote: »

Only for some sort of unprecidented messed up fascist regime, Ireland will never be going back to the dark old days of mass superstition. If you think Catholicism will somehow become "fashionable" again on its own merit, or because of some sort of ebbing social trend, you need your head examined.

You have yet to explain the following:
1) How is Christian faith equivalent to superstition?
2) Is what is "fashionable" the truth?
3) Why does (s)he need his / her head examined for raising skepticism that religion will dissappear in Ireland? I think it would be the other way around.

womoma wrote: »

Sorry man, its over. The cult of Jesus lost.

Despite healthy growth in many congregations? Theres still a lot of hope left here.

condra

Jakkass wrote: »

I'd find that you are the one who is naiive.

You're entitled to your opinion. That freedom is one of the things I like about this country.
Still, semantics, ad hominem, nit picking... I shouldn't humour you with a reply but I have time to kill tonight.

Thinking that suddenly Christianity is going to disappear from Ireland is quite delusional actually.

Nobody said that suddenly Christianity is going to disappear from Ireland.

However if someone stated that as an opinion, I believe it would be optimistic, though hardly "delusional" by anyones definition.

You have yet to explain the following:
1) How is Christian faith equivalent to superstition?

The first online dictionary I could find said..

SUPERSTITION
1 a: a belief or practice resulting from ignorance, fear of the unknown, trust in magic or chance, or a false conception of causation b: an irrational abject attitude of mind toward the supernatural, nature, or God resulting from superstition
2: a notion maintained despite evidence to the contrary

Glad we have that cleared up.

2) Is what is "fashionable" the truth?

I'll ignore that and resist the temptation to call the grammar police. I genuinely don't know what the question is.

3) Why does (s)he need his / her head examined for raising skepticism that religion will dissappear in Ireland? I think it would be the other way around.

Wow you really went out of your way there to make sure no women would be offended by your grammar.
Again though, you misrepresent me, and use questionable grammar while you're at it. What I said was:

If you think Catholicism will somehow become "fashionable" again on its own merit, or because of some sort of ebbing social trend, you need your head examined.

If your question is why should they need their heads examined for thinking such a thing, my answer is, because it would be an utterly absurd, closed-minded opinion to hold.

Despite healthy growth in many congregations? Theres still a lot of hope left here.

Healthy growth in many congregations? Are you having a laugh? Heres one for you, - Fruit sales are down but in one shop in Leitrum today they sold twice as many bananas as usual.

Gimme a break man. You're not putting valid points forward to the discussion, rather just picking on me because I'm an atheist who you're inclined to disagree with and dislike.

I disagreed with the OP, a fellow heathen. We atheists love to fight among ourselves. We tend to leave the croniism to the theists.

Why not have some balls and admit the reality of religions drastic decline in modern Ireland.

PS - I notice you didn't pick up on my point about less children being molested. I presume you agree that this is a potentially beneficial consequence of the RCC losing its filthy grubby grip on Irish society.

SoupyNorman

I would never refuse to goto Mass or enter a church because I'm Atheist, but when I do I really cant help howl with laughter (in my mind) at the Lamb of God, the droning of the drones, the throng lobbing out their tongues for a piece of reconstituted newspaper among farcical happenings in a typical bout of Mass.

Now I am aware that people faithful and defensive of Catholicism could accuse me of being narrow minded and childish but I dont really care because...


JESUS NEVER EXISTED