Anyone willing to design company logo for free?

Baggio...

ned78 wrote: »

He's not asking to pay someone, he's asking for a freebie. If you have an issue with it, either report the post, start a new discussion about it, or move on.

No...

Like the other lads have already said. If it's for charity, or a worthwhile forum like boards, then I'd be happy do do it for free (and often do when asked). Using an ad hominem argument about me, or anyone else being "miserly" or on a "high horse" is a tad juvenile.

As already pointed out... he's asked for commercial artwork for free. And to the best of my knowledge that's frowned upon here. Please feel free to report me to any mod.

Good job you weren't a mod here.

clusk007

Hey guys, while I appreciate all the positive and negative feedback alike I think this whole discussion has gotten way out of hand. It was a simple question I asked and if I offended people I'm sorry. I think this thread should be closed and I will crawl back to where i came from!:o

Owen

Baggio... wrote: »

Using an ad hominem argument about me, or anyone else being "miserly" or on a "high horse" is a tad juvenile.

Quite. Obviously any discussion about etiquette is pointless. I tried to make a point about how to raise an issue with a thread without threadspoiling - which is quite clearly what everyone was doing - and you resort to personal insults. So who's juvenile?

Baggio... wrote: »

Good job you weren't a mod here.

Think we can both agree on that.

Baggio...

ned78 wrote: »

So who's juvenile?

Hah... a straw man argument. Brilliant.

ned78 wrote: »

I've no intention of reporting the post, only trying to highlight that people on boards really need to calm down and stop threadjacking in general. I mean it's easy, if you have an issue with this thread you can

a) Start a new one to discuss the issues raised within this one
b) PM the offending party and ask for clarification
c) Report the post

Or you can go to the adverts section, or here, and legitimately ask people to do a job, and in return get paid for it. What wrong with that? Seems to work for everyone else on the planet.

IMO people should not be allowed to post here for commercial work if they are not offering anything in return. Simple economics...

ned78 wrote: »

I'm just sh*t sick of people on boards getting on a high moral horse and dragging threads off topic as a consequence.

The guy asked if someone wanted to do it for free, if you're not interested, then don't post. Or start another thread complaining about people looking for freebees - otherwise it's just threadspoiling.

How's this for being polite.

Dave!

forbairt wrote: »

I guess I see charity work / sigs and banners for the community as worthwhile and rewarding in the thanks that are given. Your average "joe" not really having a budget to spend on their sig on here as there is no major return from it more of a fun thing.

A commercial logo I see as something taking away from your professional working time .. Also the end individual is profiting from your work

probably not explaining myself that well bunged up with a cold and maybe its just a case of tomay toes .. vrs ... tomaa toes ...

Well I suspect that anybody who does the OP this favour will have enough time free that it will NOT take away from their professional working time ! I couldn't see any busy graphic designers saying "I'm getting close to a deadline for a paying customer, I'd better hurry up and get this free one done!"

The individual is profiting, sure, but I'm okay with that. It stinks of begrudgery to be thinking along the lines of "just pay your way like everybody else", when it's quite possible that there is someone who is willing to do the work for free.

Besides, surely we should be helping small businesses as much as possible nowadays? Who knows, the OP's business could end up growing and hiring 2 or 3 people who are currently on the dole

Number one wrote: »

I'm with Forbairt and baggio on this one. They are right to protect they're profession from being devalued.

Ah, the true motive emerges! If annoying little philanthropists are running around doing the work for free, then there'll be less money in the industry

Number one wrote: »

Its not thread spoiling its an outcry against exploitation which surely should be discouraged.

If its designing a logo for a charity I couldn't promote it more. However, for a business in a successful industry seeking free design work, preying upon young designers trying to get their work out there is just brazen and manipulative.

Exploitation? Preying upon people? Get a grip would ya! He's asking. Nobody is being forced to do anything.

Owen

Dave! wrote: »

The individual is profiting, sure, but I'm okay with that. It stinks of begrudgery to be thinking along the lines of "just pay your way like everybody else", when it's quite possible that there is someone who is willing to do the work for free.

I've got to say I'm with you on this. Plus, the shortsighted may not see that if someone does the graphic design work on this, that there may be a bond built up with the company in question, and when the time comes for more artwork or design, that the next time it could well be a paying gig.

I guess it really is about people begrudging, and being miserly.

Owen

Baggio... wrote: »

How's this for being polite.

What's polite got to do with anything.

I stated a sincere fact, that boards.ie's threads in general are being torn apart and brought down to the ground by people who feel they have to put their 2c in at any hands turn, and drag everything off topic. I stand by what I said, and I stand by my recommendations if someone has an issue with any particular thread on how to resolve it.

Stop taking it personally, not everything in life is an argument.

forbairt

Can I just ask if I were to go onto the motors forum and ask

Hi Guys .. I need my car serviced for my business and I don't have a budget for it but I'll tell people you did it ... Is that ok ?

If I were to go onto the building forum and say ...

Hi Guys ... I need the toilet in my new office renovated and I don't have a budget for it but I'll tell people you did it ... Is that ok ?

... similarly accounting / PR / marketing / SEO / web design / education ...

Hi Guys ... I need XYZ done and I don't have a budget for it but I'll tell people you did it ... Is that ok ?

Graphic / Web design seems to have this feeling that anyone can do it and fair enough as a hobbist its easier to get into in some ways ... I just don't know how well it'd go down in those other forums ?

Now if I was going into the building forum and saying something like .. Hi Guys ... I'm looking at fixing up this poor old womans house ... she has no money ... would anyone like to give me a hand with it ... it'd be a completely different response.

anyways no end in sight for this thread no doubt

Owen

forbairt wrote: »

Can I just ask if I were to go onto the motors forum and ask Hi Guys .. I need my car serviced for my business and I don't have a budget for it but I'll tell people you did it ... Is that ok ?

Yup. You won't get your head eaten off either by Mechanics. You might even get an offer of a discounted service.

forbairt wrote: »

Graphic / Web design seems to have this feeling that anyone can do it and fair enough as a hobbist its easier to get into in some ways ... I just don't know how well it'd go down in those other forums

It happens in every Forum. Computers, Photography, Motorcycles, even in the Food and Drink forum, you get people asking for ... free recepies!

forbairt

ned78 wrote: »

Yup. You won't get your head eaten off either by Mechanics. You might even get an offer of a discounted service.

Discounted service ... but I don't have a budget I want it for free

Owen

forbairt wrote: »

Discounted service ... but I don't have a budget I want it for free

But even if that can't happen, you won't get the reaction you'd get here. And as I said, there are requests for Freebies in lots of forums here on boards.

forbairt

ned78 wrote: »

But even if that can't happen, you won't get the reaction you'd get here. And as I said, there are requests for Freebies in lots of forums here on boards.

Probably because people don't expect to get their car serviced for free so don't ask it ?

(I don't own a car ... I don't follow that forum ... but I would assume)

Owen

forbairt wrote: »

Probably because people don't expect to get their car serviced for free so don't ask it ?

Go to to the Computers Forum, say you're a new business with a Virus, could anyone help out, and you'll have dozens of little pimply teenagers out to prove their worth, go to the Photography Forum, and you'll get a positive reaction there too.

For every 20 people who won't do a job for free, there's probably one or two who will, and no one in this thread has the right to bully them into not responding to the OP.

Baggio...

ned78 wrote: »

Yup. You won't get your head eaten off either by Mechanics. You might even get an offer of a discounted service.

Notice that word... "discounted", not quite the same as free.:D


It happens in every Forum. Computers, Photography, Motorcycles, even in the Food and Drink forum, you get people asking for ... free recepies![/QUOTE]

Not the same.... I'd be happy to give someone advise on how to do something. If I get a recipe form someone, I'm not asking them to pop round to my house and make it for me.

Here, why don't you back on to the cookery forum and ask someone to spend the time cooking you up something for free.

Good luck with that.... haw haw haw.

forbairt

ned78 wrote: »

For every 20 people who won't do a job for free, there's probably one or two who will, and no one in this thread has the right to bully them into not responding to the OP.

I didn't think I was bullying the original poster as such .. I was suggesting they offer some kinda incentive to do the work ... they obviously mentioned having no money ... they had mentioned something about sports ? so I assumed a gym ... I suggested offering their service as barter (or someone else had mentioned it already not sure now)

They might find they actually get a lot better response with higher quality work. It hasn't really cost them a lot and the person doing the work gets an added incentive ... you may also have seen how I mentioned building up a relationship with them on an ongoing basis in one of my first posts.

Number one

Dave! wrote: »

Ah, the true motive emerges! If annoying little philanthropists are running around doing the work for free, then there'll be less money in the industry



Don't be so cynical. That was one of a number of reasons I outlined to make my point and it is a perfectly valid one. Artists and designers are hardly corporate moguls now are they?? If anything it is quite the opposite.

For all your speak of thread spoiling you seem perfectly happy to become heavily involved in the debate yourselves. In fact you seem to be dominating the posts. A touch of hypocrisy I see.

Dave!

That's the other chap. I didn't say anything about thread spoiling, just about working for free FWIW, I've only posted 4 times here

Owen

Baggio... wrote: »

Here, why don't you back on to the cookery forum and ask someone to spend the time cooking you up something for free.

Just because you're too miserable to do something for free, doesn't mean someone else isn't. If you want a shining example of free help, look at the Richer Sounds forum. Those guys are in business, and offering free advice, and help to anyone who wants it, even if they didn't buy products from them. Know why? Because they know in the long term they'll get referral work from it.

Baggio... wrote: »

haw haw haw.

Okaaaay. Haw haw haw indeed.

forbairt

ned78 wrote: »

Go to to the Computers Forum, say you're a new business with a Virus, could anyone help out, and you'll have dozens of little pimply teenagers out to prove their worth, go to the Photography Forum, and you'll get a positive reaction there too.

I think you'll generally find people on there giving advice ? not offering to remote into their machines and fix the problem or to call up for free and sort them out ?

Number one

Its not about doing anything for free, its more about who is seeking the free work and in the manner in which they are doing so.

Its fine to seek a bit of advice on how to mend your computer etc. Thats part of what boards and such forums are all about. Its different when a profitable business is blatantly looking for a cheap free twist.

The OP never even suggested he was a struggling business, if he was i would have reserved my judgement and had some sympathy.

Matters of principal and good business ethics are what I'm trying to defend / promote.

Thats just my two cents. this has gone on long enough.

O.P I don't suppose theres any chance you will post the final design and we can get to see what all this fuss was about??

Baggio...

Dave! wrote: »

The individual is profiting, sure, but I'm okay with that. It stinks of begrudgery to be thinking along the lines of "just pay your way like everybody else", when it's quite possible that there is someone who is willing to do the work for free.

There's a very simple reason why many professional designers get narked at people working for free. It's certainly not because we think that a few renagade designers are going to implode the whole industry. Haw haw.:D

It's because it's the one business that's constantly undervalued, and people think of it as a form "computer doodling" (or some such nonsense). And therefore, it should be no trouble for them (AKA - us) to work for free.

Also, it's constantly asked for - I see it all the time, the same lame as excuses, people with their hands out. Always looking to take advantage of students or people just starting out. Not even willing to throw them a few quid, or a skill swop. It's not right.

I have no money... will you do me a company logo?
Times are tough can you do me a website?
If you have free time can you do, me up an illustration.
It's a great opportunity for your portfolio....
I'll tell my friends about...

Ah sure, it's only a bit of 'auld art...

Baggio...

ned78 wrote: »

Just because you're too miserable to do something for free, doesn't mean someone else isn't.

Like I said... I've often done stuff for free and always will. Just not for some person with their hands out, because times are tough for their business (yeah right).

Pub07

Baggio... wrote: »

There's a very simple reason why many professional designers get narked at people working for free. It's certainly not because we think that a few renagade designers are going to implode the whole industry. Haw haw.:D

It's because it's the one business that's constantly undervalued, and people think of it as a form "computer doodling" (or some such nonsense). And therefore, it should be no trouble for them (AKA - us) to work for free.

Also, it's constantly asked for - I see it all the time, the same lame as excuses, people with their hands out. Always looking to take advantage of students or people just starting out. Not even willing to throw them a few quid, or a skill swop. It's not right.

I have no money... will you do me a company logo?
Times are tough can you do me a website?
If you have free time can you do, me up an illustration.
It's a great opportunity for your portfolio....
I'll tell my friends about...

Ah sure, it's only a bit of 'auld art...

Would you ever cop on to yourself for god sake. The OP is not looking to hire a professional graphic artist, if he wanted to go that route he would, but he hasn't. He asked fora hobbyist who would be interested in getting their logo actually used and it could look good on a possible future CV if the hobbyist decides to make a career out of it. The OP is not scamming or screwing anyone, he laid out his terms fair and square, if you dont want to do it fair enough but there are plenty of people who might.

And there are lots of professions where when you are starting out you often work for nothing at all to get a bit of experience, examples would be journalism or law. Id say if you offered some of the newly qualified solicitors jobs where they had to pay you to let them work they'd probably jump at the chance in the current climate.

By the way did you ever hear of open source software...you know the software that is running this board...that's made by people all over the world for basically nothing in return apart from seeing their work being used by others, including corporations.

So what if the OP is running a business. He hasn't tried to pull the wool over anyone's eyes, he's made a request and if someone wants to do it for him, that's their business, not yours, so stop dragging the thread off topic.

Baggio...

Pub07 wrote: »

so stop dragging the thread off topic.

Nope...

Money talks - nothing wrong with giving an amateur a few quid.

Plus, I'm not the only one here who feels the same.

forbairt

Pub07 wrote: »

By the way did you ever hear of open source software...you know the software that is running this board...that's made by people all over the world for basically nothing in return apart from seeing their work being used by others, including corporations.

vBulletin is the biggest commercial bulletin board system in the world I'd guess ? (which as far as I know is what boards.ie is running on)

Pub07

Yes and vBulletin uses MySql, an open source database. And AFAIK boards.ie runs on apache server which is an open source web server.

forbairt

Pub07 wrote: »

Yes and vBulletin uses MySql, an open source database. And AFAIK boards.ie runs on apache server which is an open source web server.

MySQL which also has its commercial side of things offering enterprise versions ... support ... certification ... your point being ?

And apache has the sponsorship program ... where they'll take on money ... people will write books which will be sold for money and so on ...

erm ? I'm confused what are we now talking about ?

People contributing to a system and working together for non profit ?

From this thread its people who are out to make profit wanting stuff for free ? and not offering any compensation ?

forbairt

Pub07 wrote: »

Yes and vBulletin uses MySql, an open source database. And AFAIK boards.ie runs on apache server which is an open source web server.

and I might add boards.ie is now a commercial entity (at least to the best of my knowledge) ... having been party bought out by daft.ie ... and as far as I know its a ltd company ? at least the group behind it ... don't get me wrong I think its great but they subsidise the money by sponsorship ... membership fees if you so want to pay and adverts all over the place (again don't get me wrong I've no problem with that)

They have staff they have to pay wages to (1 full time coder I believe and they were looking for more people I believe recently)

anyways ...

Pub07

forbairt wrote: »

MySQL which also has its commercial side of things offering enterprise versions ... support ... certification ... your point being ?

And apache has the sponsorship program ... where they'll take on money ... people will write books which will be sold for money and so on ...

erm ? I'm confused what are we now talking about ?

People contributing to a system and working together for non profit ?

From this thread its people who are out to make profit wanting stuff for free ? and not offering any compensation ?

The point I was making was that there are tons of people around the world who work on things for free and have no problem doing it. Thousands of people have worked on and added code, and are still adding it, to apache and mysql over the years and haven't asked for or looked for any payment. Code that is now running this site. And the OP is looking for someone like this to do his logo. If he wanted to go to professional designer he could, that's his choice, he chose not to. Its none of your business if OP makes a request for someone to do some work for free and for the experience of getting that work used in a commercial way. Just like its none of your business if any of the multitude of companies out there offering non-paying internships are taken up on their offers (which they are all the time).

and I might add boards.ie is now a commercial entity (at least to the best of my knowledge) ... having been party bought out by daft.ie ... and as far as I know its a ltd company ? at least the group behind it ... don't get me wrong I think its great but they subsidise the money by sponsorship ... membership fees if you so want to pay and adverts all over the place (again don't get me wrong I've no problem with that)

They have staff they have to pay wages to (1 full time coder I believe and they were looking for more people I believe recently)

anyways ...

Yes boards.ie is a commercial entity. My point about boards was that it is using open software and was founded 10+ years ago with open source software and some people have no problem working for free and its up to them if they want to do it. And in this thread, a request was made by OP looking for someone who is willing to do some work for free and its up to the people themselves to decide if they want to do it. They don't need other people jumping into the thread dragging it off topic to criticize the OP because he isn't offering any payment.

forbairt

Pub07 wrote: »

The point I was making was that there are tons of people around the world who work on things for free and have no problem doing it. Thousands of people have worked on and added code, and are still adding it, to apache and mysql over the years and haven't asked for or looked for any payment. Code that is now running this site. And the OP is looking for someone like this to do his logo. If he wanted to go to professional designer he could, that's his choice, he chose not to. Its none of your business if OP makes a request for someone to do some work for free and for the experience of getting that work used in a commercial way. Just like its none of your business if any of the multitude of companies out there offering non-paying internships are taken up on their offers (which they are all the time).



Yes boards.ie is a commercial entity. My point about boards was that it is using open software and was founded 10+ years ago with open source software and some people have no problem working for free and its up to them if they want to do it. And in this thread, a request was made by OP looking for someone who is willing to do some work for free and its up to the people themselves to decide if they want to do it. They don't need other people jumping into the thread dragging it off topic to criticize the OP because he isn't offering any payment.

I've actually been approached twice by people looking for internship working for free and I refused.

On the boards / mysql / php / apache side of things ...

The difference as I see it being that these are community based projects no ? not private individuals looking to profit at others time and effort ?

Boards gives a LOT back (but I understand it has the overheads and is now at the stage it required development and proper management if it can continue to expand and continue to serve the community)

While I'm aware people have put lots of man hours into mysql / php / apache / linux (which I assume is the OS) ... GD Library for images ... BB Code ... APC or similar caching engines for apache ... and all the libs that apache is running ... these were community efforts working at making something for all.

Not a private business that is looking for something specific and offering nothing in return apart from a promise that it'll look good on a CV.

No doubt the original poster had a number of people approach him already through dm's or similar .. I do believe though a point is being missed and that is that they are just looking to have work done for nothing. Commercial work ... I simply suggested they might offer a barter of their service in return for the logo work.

Anyways I know this is going to just drag on and on unfortunately ... we're all entitled to our own opinions ... though whether we should voice them on the threads I guess is a matter for the mods.

I guess I'd prefer if the following

11. If you are looking for (or offering) paid services, take it to the relevant section of adverts.ie

was reworded to commercial services or something like that in the forum rules