Laws Question? Ask here!

daveharnett

Risteard wrote: »

Ball must be thrown in from the mark or behind it.

A small but important distinction. The ball must be thrown in between where the ball went out (the mark can be elsewhere) and the goal line.

That means no quick throws in your in-goal, and no charging forward to take the quick throw when the ball is kicked directly to touch.

Morf

Risteard wrote: »

Same ball must be used.

The ball must not have it any other person e.g. fans can't hand the ball back to the player and a quick lineout be taken.

The lineout musn't be marked. (think it's two opposition players.)

Ball can travel backwards.

Ball must be thrown in from the mark or behind it.

I seem to remember that it can hit or touch anything off the field of play i.e. an advertising hoarding, be touched by a sub/physio/non active player etc..

Clareman

It can touch hoarding or seats, but not a person, remember a few years ago Munster were playing in Wales (Osprey's I think) and Stringer took a quick line out that led to a try, it looked like the ball kicked into touch just rebounded off the wall but in the replay it was actually off a spectator who just got their hands up in time.

Downtime

Clareman wrote: »

It can touch hoarding or seats, but not a person, remember a few years ago Munster were playing in Wales (Osprey's I think) and Stringer took a quick line out that led to a try, it looked like the ball kicked into touch just rebounded off the wall but in the replay it was actually off a spectator who just got their hands up in time.

Rule of thumb - anything living.

Clareman

Downtime wrote: »

Rule of thumb - anything living.

Rule of thumb, use the thumb when used

daveharnett

Downtime wrote: »

Rule of thumb - anything living.

I'm picturing man in Garryowen training a dog to fetch rugby balls... but only for people in blue jerseys

Seriously though, trees don't count. We're mostly concerned with people other than the would be quick-thrower-inner.

Oh, and anybody inside the playing area (ballboys, waterboys, coaches, physios, club-appointed touch judges etc) who touches a live ball to prevent it being played should be seeing a red card.

Blanchguy

Oh, and anybody inside the playing area (ballboys, waterboys, coaches, physios, club-appointed touch judges etc) who touches a live ball to prevent it being played should be seeing a red card.

Have seen it done by a spectator at a club match. Standing along the touchline, ball lands at his feet, opposition player galloping over to take a quick throw, spectator bends over, touches the ball, straightens up and winks at the player. Cue mayhem.

GreeBo

Shelflife wrote: »

Youve hit the nail on the head here dave, you basically had the girls just running up and down the line and never making a break or really getting involved in the game.

I wouldnt dream of asking our girls to do that as it ruins the game for them, i questioned the tactic with a ref and he replied that unless they interfere with a player or the ball then they are ok. i just found it an unsportmanslike tactic.

Nice to see that they will try and remove it from the game.

If they run up there in open play (after a tackle etc) then I dont see how they are offside unless the ball is kicked up towards them? I thought you couldnt be offside in open play when the ball is in hand (in either union or tag)?

Shelflife

well technically you are in an offside position if you are infront of the ball carrier, but you are only/usually penalised if you interfere with play.

i would say that gaining an advantage by being in an offside position is interfering with play.

JustinDee

GreeBo wrote: »

If they run up there in open play (after a tackle etc) then I dont see how they are offside unless the ball is kicked up towards them? I thought you couldnt be offside in open play when the ball is in hand (in either union or tag)?

In the tag programme run by IRFU, you are offside if in front of the ball carrier.
Refs will ping you for doing the equivalent of goal-hanging.

chimchimney

daveharnett wrote: »

Oh, and anybody inside the playing area (ballboys, waterboys, coaches, physios, club-appointed touch judges etc) who touches a live ball to prevent it being played should be seeing a red card.

what if a sub is standing off the pitch but kicks the ball away to prevent the opposition taking a quick throw in?

Downtime

chimchimney wrote: »

what if a sub is standing off the pitch but kicks the ball away to prevent the opposition taking a quick throw in?

Still cant take a quick throw in. Plus he deserves to be penalized.

castie

Downtime wrote: »

Still cant take a quick throw in. Plus he deserves to be penalized.

I dont think he should.

Whether he touches it or kicks it away there cant be a quick throw in. So the fact that hes put it a good bit away from the mark shouldnt matter. Unless your suggesting if he touches it all he should be penalized.

Downtime

castie wrote: »

I dont think he should.

Whether he touches it or kicks it away there cant be a quick throw in. So the fact that hes put it a good bit away from the mark shouldnt matter. Unless your suggesting if he touches it all he should be penalized.

A sub standing on the pitch has no reason to be interfering with play. If he kicks a ball away to prevent a quick throw it he should be penalized. Not dissimilar to a player throwing the ball into touch or a player blocking a player from taking a quick throw in. There is a slight difference between touching it and kicking it away.

castie

Downtime wrote: »

A sub standing on the pitch has no reason to be interfering with play. If he kicks a ball away to prevent a quick throw it he should be penalized. Not dissimilar to a player throwing the ball into touch or a player blocking a player from taking a quick throw in. There is a slight difference between touching it and kicking it away.

But hes not on the pitch. Hes on the sideline. If he even touches it they shouldnt be allowed take a quick one.

Downtime

castie wrote: »

But hes not on the pitch. Hes on the sideline. If he even touches it they shouldnt be allowed take a quick one.

What I am saying is that there is a slight difference between him touching the ball and kicking it away. I understand that he is not in the field of play but on the sideline. I also understand that they should not be allowed to take a 'quick one' as he has touched it. What I am saying is that his conduct is contrary to good sportsmanship and as such could fall under Law 10.2 (a) and / or (b) and as such he should be penalised. What is his reason for kicking it away? (a) to ensure that the opposition cannot take a quick lineout (b) to delay the opposition and the game (c) he's acting the bo###x by kicking it away and he such be treat as such. If I was refereeing the game I would seriously consider penalising him whether he is on the field of play or not, he still falls under the laws of the game.

mountain

AM i correct in thinking that U17 match is 35 mins per side, and U15 play for 30 Mins?

Shelflife

Yes you are.

Downtime

mountain wrote: »

AM i correct in thinking that U17 match is 35 mins per side, and U15 play for 30 Mins?

You are correct but just in case you are talking about schools senior and junior rugby, junior rugby is now U16. Last year U16 was 70 minutes per game but this year it may be back to 60 minutes.

mountain

I was talking about club under age, was at an U17 match last week, where the Ref played 48 mins in the first half, and then "blew up early" in the second half at 35 mins.....

Downtime

mountain wrote: »

I was talking about club under age, was at an U17 match last week, where the Ref played 48 mins in the first half, and then "blew up early" in the second half at 35 mins.....

Was there an injury?

mountain

injury lasted about 2 mins,
i attend a couple of underage matches a week, and time keeping seems "flexible".

daveharnett

chimchimney wrote: »

what if a sub is standing off the pitch but kicks the ball away to prevent the opposition taking a quick throw in?

Depends. I've no problem with a spectator/sub/whoever touching the ball provided it has already left the playing enclosure (ie behind the barrier 2-5 meters from the touch line).

If the sub is inside the playing enclosure (he shouldn't be) and interferes with the game, he should definitely be seeing a red card imo.

daveharnett

mountain wrote: »

I was talking about club under age, was at an U17 match last week, where the Ref played 48 mins in the first half, and then "blew up early" in the second half at 35 mins.....

mountain wrote: »

injury lasted about 2 mins,
i attend a couple of underage matches a week, and time keeping seems "flexible".

Sounds like the ref lost track of time alright. I have forgotten to restart the clock after stoppages more than once myself. A spare watch that doesn't stop can be a lifesaver

Mistakes aside, you are right in saying that the timekeeping is flexible. Provided the match result is not in doubt, I see no problem with fudging the time a little (in either direction) for the sake of safety or enjoyment at underage or 'recreational' levels. "Sole judge of fact and law" and all that.

mountain

[QUOTE=Mistakes aside, you are right in saying that the timekeeping is flexible. Provided the match result is not in doubt, I see no problem with fudging the time a little (in either direction) for the sake of safety or enjoyment at underage or 'recreational' levels. "Sole judge of fact and law" and all that.[/QUOTE]

If the result is not in doubt blowing up early is ok, if a team is loosing by 40/50 points, playing to the bitter end benefits neither side. Also you see matches where team being well beaten, knocks the ball on, and the ref waves play on,
again, dosent do any harm and gives them some encouragement.

Downtime

FYI - there is a new IRB Laws of Rugby App available from the App Store - very useful.

Butch Cassidy

How is the distance and position of the conversion kick calculated?

daveharnett

Butch Cassidy wrote: »

How is the distance and position of the conversion kick calculated?

Nothing to do with law. The conversion must be taken in line with where the try was scored, and on or behind the 5m line. It's entirely up to the kicker how far back they bring the kick.

Clareman

Ball is taken back in a straight line (i.e. parallel with the sideline) as far back as the kicker wants to go, the defending team have to stay behind the end line though no matter how far the ball is taken back.

I scored a try (very very rare occasion) about 8 meters in from the end line, the genius of a kicker took the ball back well beyond the 22, his kick ended up 10 meters short, how yerman thought he'd make the kick I'd never know, but there's no excuse for leaving a conversion short. Same genius once scored a try himself under the posts and decided to be smart and convert by drop kicking, he hit the cross bar.

phog

Clareman wrote: »

Ball is taken back in a straight line (i.e. parallel with the sideline) as far back as the kicker wants to go, the defending team have to stay behind the end line though no matter how far the ball is taken back.

I scored a try (very very rare occasion) about 8 meters in from the end line, the genius of a kicker took the ball back well beyond the 22, his kick ended up 10 meters short, how yerman thought he'd make the kick I'd never know, but there's no excuse for leaving a conversion short. Same genius once scored a try himself under the posts and decided to be smart and convert by drop kicking, he hit the cross bar.

Mike Tendall tried that yesterday and hit the upright.

Today when starting the game, Sexton kicked off but to me he seemed to be in the Pumas side of the field, should this have been penalised and if yes, how, a penalty or scrum on the halfway line?