Laws Question? Ask here!

blackwhite

Latest instance of borked site - won’t let me add a link to post above

Lost Ormond

World Rugby Council approves the global law trial of 20-minute red card at elite levels only

randomname2005

Seems quite inconsistent given the JOB try ruled out for a kick too far off the mark by the tmo

Ben Bailey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123473212#Comment_123473212

In the SP to JOB incident, SP did not kick through the mark where the penalty was awarded. He kicked from a spot parallel to the mark.

When you consider that most, if not all, penalty kicks from hand are actually kicked from 2 to 3 metres in front of the mark and that this is never acted on by referees it makes that decision seem pedantic.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123474455#Comment_123474455

highly pedantic, but it was Ben Whitehouse after all, the most pedantic pedant that practises pedantry. How could Prendergast kick through the mark when Whitehouse was literally standing on it and in the way.

it was a good lesson for Prendergast though. he needs to be more vocal to the refs and ask them to move

Ben Bailey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123474487#Comment_123474487

We see 10s try this crossfield kick, but it has to be done quickly and quietly. Engaging with a referee in order to have them move away from the mark kinda gives the opposition a heads up. The lesson for 10s is to kick from directly behind the mark, and not from either side of it. Similar to 9s taking quick taps.

sydthebeat

following on from the queries in the lions thread.

can any referees please confirm that:

1. a maul in open play results in a scrum to the team not in possession at the start of the maul
2. a maul which forms directly from a kick in open play results in a scrum to the team who have caught the ball
3. a maul which forms direct from a restart results in a scrum to the team who restarted ie the kicker

blackwhite

One from SA v Italy yesterday.

SA deliberately kicked-off short and recovered it, in order to manufacture a Italian scrum that they could pressure into a penalty.

https://twitter.com/jaredwright17/status/1944054449338823005?s=46&t=nCQ2zYUI_IYJ_l6bQ4J4vQ

Can anyone explain how Brace didn’t call this as foul play and award a penalty?


Law 9.7(a) A player must not intentionally infringe any law of the game.

TheRona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123629179#Comment_123629179

Yet another "innovation" from SA that is a blight on the game. Has SA ever contributed anything positive to the sport?

blackwhite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123629255#Comment_123629255

It’s not even innovation though - it looks like exploiting a weak piece of refereeing from Brace. There’s already provision in the Laws to prevent this - the referee just bottled it.

TheRona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123629296#Comment_123629296

I was being sarcastic. They don't innovate, they just look to push the boundaries of the law to make things worse for the sport.

Yeah_Right

I don't understand why it wasn't a penalty for offside. The player was in front of the kicker.

theVersatile

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123629526#Comment_123629526

Offside at a restart has always only been a scrum (or an option of making the team re-take the kick off).

But there is an argument as Blackwhite said above that it could be a penalty for intentionally infringing the laws of the game.

pickarooney

The Italians could also have asked them to retake it, right?

sprucemoose

the italians did it against ireland in the 2004 six nations

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123632310#Comment_123632310

As sprucemouse said, the Italians tried similar v Ireland in a 6Ns game where they felt they had a better scrum than us but unfortunately for them we won a penalty from the resulting scrum.

sprucemoose

hoping an actual ref on here can clarify something about tom farrell's try at the weekend. obviously a player can 'juggle' the ball in an attempt to gather it, but it looked to me as if TF deliberately tapped the ball forward and over Jimmy O'Brien's (i think he was the incoming defender) head while regathering the ball - surely that is considered throwing the ball forward? the argument against it from others is 'its only a knock on if it hits the ground', which i would interpret as an exception to the overall laws around the ball going forward (similar to a charge-down not being a knock on) - if it was just as simple as that then whats to stop a player throwing the ball foward over a defender and gathering it before it hits the ground?

blackwhite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123922356#Comment_123922356

I'd assume the difference is that is was "in the act of trying to catch the ball" under Law 11.4.

11.4 It is not an intentional knock forward if, in the act of trying to catch the ball, the player knocks on provided that there was a reasonable expectation that the player could gain possession.

A deliberate throw forward is covered under 11.7, and there's no exceptions to that law listed.

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123922433#Comment_123922433

yeah that kinda lines up with my thinking on it (i think), if he deliberately played the ball forward to take out the defender then its a forward throw and the 'juggling' exception doesnt apply. i suppose trying to prove whether it was deliberate or not is another story but it looked to me like he tapped it over JOB's head

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123922356#Comment_123922356

I think the argument is that TF didnt intentionally play the ball forward and it was more natural play of the ball therefore it was play on. There is a clear difference for me in what TF did which was reclaim a ball kicked forward and a player throwing a ball forward

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123922356#Comment_123922356

Brian O'Driscoll's one years ago was more a throw forward than Tom Farrell's tap. Tbh, one of the Leinster defenders has to stay on the ground, let him land and then smash him. Farrell eased off for a second so it looked like he was expecting a whistle too

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123922677#Comment_123922677

i think BOD's self pass probably comes under the thing of leaving the hands backwards and travels forwards. either way i find it interesting that it became so famous because he just ends up getting smashed almost straight away

but yep the fact that TF eased off for a sec is an important point that i left out to be fair as its why i thought it might have been deliberate rather than purely accidental