Pro Wrestling and MMA

rovert

DETROIT, MI - Former UFC Heavyweight Champion, Tim Sylvia was involved in a fight at a bar in downtown Detroit Michigan with 7 foot, 320 pound WWE Superstar, Glen 'Kane' Jacobs (pictured above).

No details are currently being released on how the fight started. A witness says the two were arguing and Tim Sylvia instigated the fight. Jacobs quickly took Sylvia to the ground and repeatedly punched him in the face. The bartender along with a bystander helped pull Jacobs off Sylvia. Sylvia was said to have suffered a broken nose and a black eye.

The police were notified but since the fight was not prolonged and neither men wanted to press any charges, no arrests were made. Sylvia was driven by a friend who was with him to the hospital to treat the broken nose. Glen Jacobs left the scene with his wife shortly after.

More details to be released as they come in.
http://ninjashoes.net/

I pray this is true.

chopperbyrne

"Hey Tim! Why don't you pick on someone your own size?"

"I can't. I'll get beaten up!"

Love it.

Tim Sylvia, worst heavyweight champion ever.

callaway92

MMA career for Kane?

calex71

epic EPIC fail

Fozzy

Haha, brilliant. Kane definitely isn't the kind of guy you'd expect to get in a fight though, he's very politically minded. Especially if he was with his wife, I can hardly imagine him instigating the incident

Of all the wrestlers Tim could get into a fight with, he picks his counterpart :pac:

rovert

Dave Meltzer wrote this:

When exactly was Kane last in Detroit? Royal Rumble weekend.

He was in Texas the entire weekend.

Sorry lads

callaway92

so it didnt actually happen??

look what it says at bottom of this LOL

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenn_Jacobs

Dancor

LMAO. I wonder the fight was about. I met Kane in New York and he was such a nice bloke, very cool and had time for everybody. Must of been something touchy said to him.

Just seen the above

rovert

dancor wrote: »

LMAO. I wonder the fight was about. I met Kane in New York and he was such a nice bloke, very cool and had time for everybody. Must of been something touchy said to him.

Just seen the above

Kane does have a mild shooting background but yeah he is a mellow guy.

CMpunked

callaway92 wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenn_Jacobs

Where exactly are we looking here?

So it's not true then?


Balls



:pac:

So Pro Wrestling is a "martial art" now?

rovert

Deleted User wrote: »

So Pro Wrestling is a "martial art" now?

Ask Josh Barnett :pac:

rovert

rovert wrote: »

Ask Josh Barnett :pac:

I'm pretty sure he trains kickboxing and catch wrestling as well?:D

That's a bold claim. That's like saying Sergei Kharitonov also plays the clarinet and so the clarinet is a superior martial art to BJJ or Muay-Thai because he KO'd Ninja.............:)

Fozzy

rovert wrote: »

Ask Josh Barnett :pac:

Better yet, ask Sakuraba, that's what he said when he won that UFC tournament

In all seriousness, in Japan pro wrestling is considered as legitimate a martial art as any and pro wrestlers are considered to be some of the toughest guys around. There's a big difference between their style of pro wrestling and the major style in North America today though

Much of what Josh Barnett does is what Billy Robinson used to do in pro wrestling matches

Valmont

Deleted User wrote: »

That's a bold claim. That's like saying Sergei Kharitonov also plays the clarinet and so the clarinet is a superior martial art to BJJ or Muay-Thai because he KO'd Ninja.............:)

The confused smiley doesn't do me justice on this one.

Mal-Adjusted

come off it, there's no "superior" martial art. they're all looking at the same thing from diffirent perspectives, all trying to reach the same goals

rovert

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

come off it, there's no "superior" martial art. they're all looking at the same thing from diffirent perspectives, all trying to reach the same goals

It is a joke, dude.

Mmmm_Lemony

Remember when Sylvia broke his arm in a fight, and only the ref noticed and he wanted to continue?

Valmont

Valmont wrote: »

The confused smiley doesn't do me justice on this one.

Sergei Kharitonov is a classically trained clarinet player.

Fozzy

The difference being that MMA wasn't partly built on clarinet players :pac:

getz

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

come off it, there's no "superior" martial art. they're all looking at the same thing from diffirent perspectives, all trying to reach the same goals

correct if it has rules its not a martial art

cowzerp

Deleted User wrote: »

So Pro Wrestling is a "martial art" now?

The sad thing is that some people actually do believe that it is!!

MMA-Real

Pro Wrestling-I dont even need to say it, so wont.

Get a life and enjoy whatever ENTERTAINMENT you want.

rovert

cowzerp wrote: »

The sad thing is that some people actually do believe that it is!!

MMA-Real

Pro Wrestling-I dont even need to say it, so wont.

Get a life and enjoy whatever ENTERTAINMENT you want.

Erm there has been fixed fights in MMA and Pro Wrestling came out of early forms of "MMA" exhibitions from early last century. The two forms of entertainment are more closely related than most people would like to accept. Especially in Japan as Fozzy said.

cowzerp

rovert wrote: »

Erm there has been fixed fights in MMA and Pro Wrestling came out of early forms of "MMA" exhibitions from early last century. The two forms of entertainment are more closely related than most people would like to accept. Especially in Japan as Fozzy said.

Fixed fights , is not the same as actors prancing about and following a script, pretending to be fighters. and i never hear of fixed mma matches anyway.

Yeah you stick to that story!!

I'll stick to mine, the only relation is that they both attract some of the weird WWE fans, who have yet to grow up.

Nothingcompares

It sounds like cowzer queued up for hours to meet his favourite wrestler and the guy was a dick to him and since then he's held a grudge at the whole profession. I'd rather watch WWE than Fair City.

Bubs101

cowzerp wrote: »

and i never hear of fixed mma matches anyway.

Yeah you stick to that story!!

Some early Pride fights were apparently fixed

Fozzy

cowzerp wrote: »

Fixed fights , is not the same as actors prancing about and following a script, pretending to be fighters. and i never hear of fixed mma matches anyway.

Yeah you stick to that story!!

I'll stick to mine, the only relation is that they both attract some of the weird WWE fans, who have yet to grow up.

You obviously aren't too informed on Japanese pro wrestling or pre-70s pro wrestling. MMA in Japan comes pretty much directly from pro wrestling. A lot of pro wrestling matches from 80/90 years ago were what we'd call MMA

There's more to pro wrestling than the bad actors of WWE :pac:

Fozzy

Bubs101 wrote: »

Some early Pride fights were apparently fixed

Mark Coleman vs Nobuhiko Takada being the most famous, and obvious.

Takada, the pro wrestler, needed a win because the promotion was built on him as the top star originally. When he wasn't winning, interest fell

And just out of interest, the next top star who PRIDE revolved around was another pro wrestler, Sakuraba

cowzerp

Nothingcompares wrote: »

It sounds like cowzer queued up for hours to meet his favourite wrestler and the guy was a dick to him and since then he's held a grudge at the whole profession. I'd rather watch WWE than Fair City.

I used to love the ultimate warrior, but i was about 10!

i dont mind Pro wrestling but its just like Fair city as you compare, some people dont seem to realise this!

Oh and MMA in japan coming from Pro wrestling??

if thats true all that proves is they said 1 day, lets make this "REAL" as the pro wrestling is acting, otherwise the pro wrestling would be MMA.

Fozzy

cowzerp wrote: »

Oh and MMA in japan coming from Pro wrestling??

if thats true all that proves is they said 1 day, lets make this "REAL" as the pro wrestling is acting, otherwise the pro wrestling would be MMA.

UWF, UWFi, Pancrase, RINGS, it doesn't mean anything to you, does it? :pac: There's no disputing that MMA came from pro wrestling in Japan

It came about because the pro wrestlers could fight for real and some of them wanted to set themselves apart from the competition. I don't think the idea of "acting" came into it at all, as they'd still do pro wrestling afterwards. You'd be surprised at how many MMA fighters have done pro wrestling, or even just fought on a pro wrestling show

cowzerp

Fozzy wrote: »

It came about because the pro wrestlers could fight for real and some of them wanted to set themselves apart from the competition.

This sums it up, they could fight, so can some chess players, Fair city acors, GAA players, etc...this is not because of pro wrestling, some people are just tough despite what they do!

Fozzy wrote: »

You'd be surprised at how many MMA fighters have done pro wrestling, or even just fought on a pro wrestling show

Ready made publicity, money talks-simple really! How does this show that pro wrestling makes fighters! you dont need to answer that.

Oh and they Entertained on a pro wrestling show not Fought.

Fozzy

cowzerp wrote: »

This sums it up, they could fight, so can some chess players, Fair city acors, GAA players, etc...this is not because of pro wrestling, some people are just tough despite what they do!

A lot of them were high level martial artists before they were pro wrestlers. That's always been the case in pro wrestling

cowzerp wrote: »

Ready made publicity, money talks-simple really! How does this show that pro wrestling makes fighters! you dont need to answer that.

I don't really think that that's the case, especially when they wouldn't be getting that much publicity doing pro wrestling. My point was more about showing that many MMA fighters don't hold this disdain towards pro wrestling that you seem to

cowzerp wrote: »

Oh and they Entertained on a pro wrestling show not Fought.

No, I meant fought, as in fought an MMA fight on a show billed as pro wrestling

Tim_Murphy

I don't understand all the pro-wrestling to be honest.

i dont mind Pro wrestling but its just like Fair city as you compare, some people dont seem to realise this!

Who doesn't realise this Paul? I've seen numerous people come out with similar statements but I've never come across anybody, bar kids who didn't take pro-wrestling for what it was.

As has been pointed out, MMA in Japan grew out of pro-wrestling, with a lot of the shoot matches back in the day being somewhere beaten the two.

this is not because of pro wrestling, some people are just tough despite what they do!

Pro-wrestlers are tough despite the fact that they do pro-wrestling? :eek::rolleyes: I doubt there's many posters in this forum that would last the pro-wrestling lifestyle for 6 months.

rovert

cowzerp I know this type of question sounds dickish but have you read up on the history of MMA?

Anyway:

WWE superstar Kane has laughed off reports he was involved in a bar room brawl with former UFC heavyweight champion Tim Sylvia.

Earlier this week, blogs and internet forums were reporting that Affliction fighter Sylvia had suffered a broken nose and black eye at the hands of the Big Red Machine.

They had supposedly traded blows at a venue in Detroit with the 7ft, 320lbs wrestling star, real name Glen Jacobs, said to have come out on top.

However a WWE spokesman immediately dismissed the story, saying: "This is a total fabrication."

Pals of the pair added that neither man had been in Detroit at the time of the alleged incident.

And now, for the first time, Kane has spoken out about the rumours.

Speaking exclusively to SunSport, he said: "I was sitting at home at the time and someone told me – that was the first I’d heard about it.

"I hear I handled it pretty well though. I’m happy with myself!

"I’m pretty sure Tim won’t hold a grudge though."

Wondering what would happen if an MMA and WWE fighter did meet under UFC rules, the former world champion added: "Look at what Brock Lesnar’s doing.

"Undertaker trained MMA style and I have to some extent too. I actually got my start as a shoot fighter in Japan.

"Wrestlers are a little tougher than we’re generally given credit for and I think we’d represent ourselves well.

"By the same token, how well would the MMA guys fare in the WWE ring?

"I respect what they do though. They are tough guys and have done a great job marketing their sport."

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/wrestling/article2331793.ece

cowzerp

Fozzy lets get 1 thing straight, Pro wrestling does not prepare a fighter for MMA.

Boxing, Muay thai, BJJ, Greco and Freestyle wrestling do, people talking about pro wrestlers as fighters is laughable-maybe they where fighters before the pro wrestling? well then talk about that, not the fact that they done fake wrestling..

Pro wrestling has no place on an MMA board as its not a part of MMA like the other arts i mentioned, Brock lesnar in an MMA perspective is from an amateur wrestler background, the pro wrestling helped him in no way bar advertising him..

Keep pro wrestling on the pro wrestling board or at least stop crediting it for fighters abilities..

cowzerp

Tim_Murphy wrote: »

Who doesn't realise this Paul? I've seen numerous people come out with similar statements but I've never come across anybody, bar kids who didn't take pro-wrestling for what it was. .

Tim the thing is people on here always talk about pro wrestlers in the same light as Pro MMA fighters and compare them, its ludicrous..

We know its acting but why is it always talked about on here?
i dont know..its nothing to do with MMA..

and my point on some Wrestlers been tough, your missing the point, i dont mean tough as in they dont go through hardships, i mean some are just tough fighters naturally and this is in no way related to the wrestling.

rovert

cowzerp wrote: »

Fozzy lets get 1 thing straight, Pro wrestling does not prepare a fighter for MMA.

Boxing, Muay thai, BJJ, Greco and Freestyle wrestling do, people talking about pro wrestlers as fighters is laughable-maybe they where fighters before the pro wrestling? well then talk about that, not the fact that they done fake wrestling....

MMA is of course a mixture of disciplines much like Pro Wrestling is mixture of disciplines. There is a high degree of cross pollination between the two.

cowzerp wrote: »

Pro wrestling has no place on an MMA board as its not a part of MMA like the other arts i mentioned

PRIDE was heavily influenced by Pro Wrestling. UFC's promotional and business model is exactly the same as WWE's. Dana White has prasied Vince McMahon many, many times.

The thread title was a joke by the way cowzerp.

cowzerp wrote: »

Tim the thing is people on here always talk about pro wrestlers in the same light as Pro MMA fighters and compare them, its ludicrous..

Link?

cowzerp

rovert wrote: »

The thread title was a joke by the way cowzerp.

Im aware of that, even if a pro wrestler bashed tim sylva or anyone else means nothing other than the individual can fight, im out of this anyway as its pointless anyway and i've explained my points as best i could...

Fozzy

cowzerp wrote: »

Fozzy lets get 1 thing straight, Pro wrestling does not prepare a fighter for MMA.

I'd argue that in certain ways it does, although they're minor and more to do with creating interest in yourself and not to do with performance

cowzerp wrote: »

Boxing, Muay thai, BJJ, Greco and Freestyle wrestling do, people talking about pro wrestlers as fighters is laughable-maybe they where fighters before the pro wrestling? well then talk about that, not the fact that they done fake wrestling..

Yes, many of the pro wrestlers were accomplished martial artists before doing pro wrestling. There are more NCAA division I wrestling champions who did pro wrestling than MMA. But the point that you seem to be missing is that the pioneers of MMA in Japan wouldn't have been able to generate the interest to evolve the sport without the popularity that they already had from pro wrestling. You're also overlooking the fact that a large part of a Japanese pro wrestler's training involves legitimate martial arts training

cowzerp wrote: »

Keep pro wrestling on the pro wrestling board or at least stop crediting it for fighters abilities..

I never did that. You're really not listening to me at all, are you? :pac:

roo1981

Haven’t been on here in ages, but here’s my two (or rather 50) cents..

I’m not a huge fan of WWE as it is today-sports entertainment, no doubt. I do however have a problem with the general lack of respect MMA fans tend to have towards good ole school pro wrasslin, which mainly stems out of ignorance of the sports history and general snottyness towards its fans.

First and foremost people, MMA IS NOT A NEW SPORT-its been practised in one form or another across every continent since man decided he could have fun beating the snot out of his friends an neighbours with a few people watching (and sometimes without). Dana White and the UFC are just the latest incarnation of it.

Before I go any further on the Pro Wrasslin MMA thingy, check out this-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzk66VwinCc&eurl=http://www.subfighter.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=80823

Anyone with any degree of commonsense will agree that amateur wrestling has had a huge influence on MMA. Well, back around 1900-1940 (a golden era for all combat sports) there was no 'pro' or 'amateur' wrestling-wrestling or grappling was seen as a style in itself that included both pinfall or submission as a way of victory, similar to Japanese Judo.

During the 1920's-1930's, carnivals would regularly travel around the Southern US states, holding boxing and wrestling (and indeed sometimes crossover fights-hence 'MMA' if you will) promotions. Boxing proved the more profitable for promoters, mainly due to vicious beatings and KO's that it provided-much more dramatic than your average 45 minute slow paced wrestling match. Interestingly, many of the atheletes crosstrained-Jack Johnston, the first black heavyweight champion being an example. He would box at the carnivals then moonlight as a wrestler to make more money if the full time wrestlers were sick or injured.

Wrestling, however, began to die a death at the hands of boxing, and some unscrupulous promoters began fixing matches with the intent of making some easy money off gambling while they still had the chance. Wrestlers and promoters eventually both copped on to the profitability of this, and 'worked' wrestling matches soon became the norm.

A schism soon took place within the sport, with some wrestlers viewing the upstart worked promotions as an unseemly corruption, and others seeing as it as a possibility of a career and some easy bucks-the former being referred to as 'Amateurs', the latter 'Professionals'

Throughout the 1940s and up until the 1980s, the schism became more pronounced. At this point it’s hard to tell which side of the art became the bastard son of the grappling, Pro Wrestling or Amateur. Amateur eventually worked off a points system but dumped the submission aspect while maintaining throws and pins as its basis for victory (again, much like Judo) and became an international sport, as well as a huge focal point (I **** you not) of the cold war as American and Russian wrestlers faced off in the Olympics.

Pro Wrestling concentrated more on the out of the ring dramas and storylines that would build a fanbase and maximise a fanbase-however in the ring techniques became more flashy and interestingly, more visually (and physically) devastating if performed with intent-mainly to appease the fans desire for violence. Many 'Pro' wrestling moves were banned from the amateur sport as they involved spiking (bouncing an opponent directly on his head) of some discription

Interestingly, many wrestlers trained at both (and indeed still do), normally starting off Amateur in high school and college, then going 'Pro' if Olympic wrestling proved an unattainable goal or they wished to pursue wrestling as a career rather than a 9 to 5. The 90's proved a final jump for Pro Wrasslin-Vince McMahon bought up most rival promotions, ending the golden era, and Pro Wrasslin became Sports Entertainment.

Now here where’s our argument comes in-is MMA influenced by Pro Wrestling?
Well, in the ring, it’s certainly been influenced by those with an amateur wrestling background, and now with the likes of Lesnar and Lashley crossing over, those with both Amateur and Pro. The above video also shows plenty of old school 'pro' wrestling moves being implemented successfully by new school MMA fighters, so I guess so. It appears to me that most of the pro wrestlers crossing over are trying to remain respectful to both sports, while the MMA fighters seem to be the ones with the axe to grind.

Out of the ring, Dana White has proclaimed Vince McMahon to be a genius on many an occasion, and seems to be trying to push a WWE style dominance onto the sport of MMA. If MMA's top promoter thinks he can learn from the way Pro Wrestling operates, I guess it most certainly could (or will) be an influence on MMA in general. Incidentally, I think early pro wrestlins style of promoting fights (grudge matches, backstories with good guys and bad guys) is starting to seep into MMA-the GSP and BJ Penn (and Hughes\Serra for that matter) being prime examples.

Anyhow, I waffle. My 2 cents has turned into a couple of Euros and sore fingers from typing too much

Fozzy

^Very good post, by the way

Roper

Sort of a WWE skewed thread this that ignores the influences of Frye, Lions Den, Gracies, Militechs etc. etc. on MMA.

WWE might influence the manner in which the sport is marketted but has nothing to do with influencing the manner in which fights take place. But that's a bit like saying that the Glazers have an influence on the way Man Utd play.

rovert

Roper wrote: »

Sort of a WWE skewed thread this that ignores the influences of Frye, Lions Den, Gracies, Militechs etc. etc. on MMA.

They weren’t intentionally ignored people were talking about the influence of Pro Wrestling on MMA. No one said that MMA was completely influenced by Pro Wrestling.

Roper wrote: »

WWE might influence the manner in which the sport is marketted but has nothing to do with influencing the manner in which fights take place.

Please elaborate further. Fighters do come out to ring music and PRIDE's case pyro if that is what you mean.

Roper wrote: »

But that's a bit like saying that the Glazers have an influence on the way Man Utd play.

Not true Pro Wrestling has had a direct and cited impact on what get emphasised and what doesn’t in UFC and most of MMA. Without the Pro Wrestling influence UFC originally probably wouldn’t have taken off, PRIDE probably wouldn’t have came into existence as we know it and you probably wouldn’t have gotten the UFC boom of 2005-present.

dunkamania

I have amended the heading. There are some interesting topics raised here, that people want to discuss. So feel free to discuss the broader impact of pro wrestling on MMA, away from the OP.

Ground rules- If you dont like MMA or pro wrestling, fair enough, but this topic is not the place to discuss it, so please keep it respectful.

My two cents. MMA in the US evolved from TMA competitions, while in Japan it evolved from Pro-wrestling, hence the differing cultures surrounding the same sport in two different countries.

As for, business models, the UFC essentially follows the model created by the WWE. Everything from brand control, to merchandising, to geographical targeting. Most MMA fans I know, were at some point fans of WWE, or still are.

Fozzy

Roper wrote: »

Sort of a WWE skewed thread this that ignores the influences of Frye, Lions Den, Gracies, Militechs etc. etc. on MMA.

I've made a point not to mention WWE at all in this thread

Remember those leglocks that Ken Shamrock was so famous for? He learned them in pro wrestling training

Don Frye was a big star in Japan years before he fought for PRIDE because he was a successful pro wrestler for New Japan. That helped him a lot by the time he did MMA in Japan

Do you have any idea how many pro wrestlers helped Helio Gracie's legacy grow? People weren't turning up just to see Helio fight, they were turning up because it was their guy versus the big bad pro wrestler. Total pro wrestling model

Masahiko Kimura was well into his pro wrestling career when he pulled off the move against Helio that got named after him

Mitsuya Maeda, who taught the Gracies in the beginning, financed his tours by doing pro wrestling. Without pro wrestling as a means to make money, he might never have been to Brazil and BJJ wouldn't exist

Roper

And that atom bomb? 1945? That's right, pro wrestling.

Look when we talk about pro wrestling, we're talking about a few guys who were real fighters in other arts who made a bit of money on the side by acting out some rigged fights. Don't make it out to be some kind of genesis for MMA it simply wasn't. It may have created a market and it is what it is but that's it.

Personally I cannot stand pro wrestling, but I see the massive marketing machine that is the WWE and what it has given the UFC in terms of fanbase and ideas. I credit that.

Fozzy

I really don't think that you're understanding the nature of Japanese or pre-WWE pro wrestling. It's not the same as WWE. To give you an idea, many, many pro wrestlers who worked pre-1970 have said how much MMA reminds them of pro wrestling in their day. There's almost a unanimous consensus from the wrestlers who I've heard speak on the matter that the UFC is closer to their era of pro wrestling than any modern pro wrestling is

cowzerp

Fozzy wrote: »

I really don't think that you're understanding the nature of Japanese or pre-WWE pro wrestling. It's not the same as WWE. To give you an idea, many, many pro wrestlers who worked pre-1970 have said how much MMA reminds them of pro wrestling in their day. There's almost a unanimous consensus from the wrestlers who I've heard speak on the matter that the UFC is closer to their era of pro wrestling than any modern pro wrestling is

I watched wwf before it was wwe and it was just as fake but just less story lines, i remember 1 event and they poured some fake blood all over this lads head and it was so obvious!

Look i think batman would be bashed by superman but again its not real life just like pro wrestling, as roper said, these mma pro wrestlers came from real martial arts and just made money through pro wrestling, your not getting that.

Fozzy

cowzerp wrote: »

I watched wwf before it was wwe and it was just as fake but just less story lines, i remember 1 event and they poured some fake alone all over this lads head and it was so obvious!
Look i think batman would be bashed by superman but again its not real life just like pro wrestling, as roper said, these mma pro wrestlers came from real martial arts and just made money through pro wrestling, your not getting that.

When I said pre-WWE, I wasn't talking about 2001, I was talking about the '70s and before. How much of that have you seen?

You cannot tell me with a straight face that all pro wrestling did for Funaki, Tamura, Sakuraba, Shamrock, Suzuki and Takada was provide them with a paycheck. It enabled them to do so much more in bringing MMA into the mainstream in Japan. I can't understand how anyone could deny this, unless they haven't read about it before and just refuse to believe it because of a pre-conceived notion that all pro wrestling is the same as what WWE puts on


EDIT: Here's one of many good articles explaining the role of pro wrestling in the evolution of MMA: www.sherdog.net/forums/f2/great-article-link-between-mma-pro-wrestling-japan-675263

rovert

Roper wrote: »

And that atom bomb? 1945? That's right, pro wrestling.

Look when we talk about pro wrestling, we're talking about a few guys who were real fighters in other arts who made a bit of money on the side by acting out some rigged fights. Don't make it out to be some kind of genesis for MMA it simply wasn't. It may have created a market and it is what it is but that's it.

Personally I cannot stand pro wrestling, but I see the massive marketing machine that is the WWE and what it has given the UFC in terms of fanbase and ideas. I credit that.

cowzerp wrote: »

I watched wwf before it was wwe and it was just as fake but just less story lines, i remember 1 event and they poured some fake alone all over this lads head and it was so obvious!
Look i think batman would be bashed by superman but again its not real life just like pro wrestling, as roper said, these mma pro wrestlers came from real martial arts and just made money through pro wrestling, your not getting that.

It seems one side in this thread is backed up by historical facts and the other seems to be based on generalisations about something they don’t understand. How many more facts need to be posted before the penny will drop? You can deny it all you want but the question isn’t was MMA influenced by Pro Wrestling the extent of it is only in question. Every historian I’ve read makes the very many links between the two, it is hardly a minority opinion here. If you personally can’t then I question your own understanding of the history of MMA. None of these historians I’ve read have ever claimed a connection I’ve found unreasonable so I don’t know where that Atomic bomb line came from MMA is a multi discipline, multi cultural, multinational combat sport which Pro Wrestling had a pretty significant part in shaping considering it isn’t a pure sport.