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Germany putting the foot down

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    #92
    Zynks
    Registered Users Posts: 1,693 ✭✭✭Zynks


    Dannyboy83 wrote: »
    Between Obama fining off-shoring and Germany's harmonising tax rates, this may be just the excuse that an multinational would need to pull out of Ireland.

    Yep, this is very worrying.

    On the good side this will finally force the country to change its focus on jobs in foreign companies to the creation of Irish enterprise with international capabilities and more national R&D targeting retention of IPR in the country.


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    #93
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    Zynks wrote: »
    On the good side this will finally force the country to change its focus on jobs in foreign companies to the creation of Irish enterprise with international capabilities and more national R&D targeting retention of IPR in the country.
    Absolutely, but the sounds being made by government at the moment are not encouraging. A lot of rhetoric about stimulating the property/construction sector and making ourselves more competitive to attract foreign investment. But then, I suppose this is just reflecting the wishes of the average voter.


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    #94
    peasant
    Registered Users Posts: 17,819 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    Zynks wrote: »
    Yep, this is very worrying.

    On the good side this will finally force the country to change its focus on jobs in foreign companies to the creation of Irish enterprise with international capabilities and more national R&D targeting retention of IPR in the country.

    Thou shalt not worry, aren't we the bestest "knowledge economy" of them all?

    *snigger*


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    #95
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    djpbarry wrote: »
    Absolutely, but the sounds being made by government at the moment are not encouraging. A lot of rhetoric about stimulating the property/construction sector and making ourselves more competitive to attract foreign investment. But then, I suppose this is just reflecting the wishes of the average voter.

    The thing is if they actually wanted indigenous industry, they wouldn't be saying this to the average worker now would they?

    It sends the message that the government are going to sort it out and get jobs for the country when it most likely isn't going to be the case which will only prolong our problems.

    Its FF trying to keep people happy long enough to vote for them. Selling the country out for the party, nothing new then.


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    #96
    Zynks
    Registered Users Posts: 1,693 ✭✭✭Zynks


    Funny to hear "foreign jobs for the Irish" while in the background it is "French jobs for the French" and the "British jobs for the British"and "buy American".... It would be great to see a change in approach. Not that foreign jobs aren't good, but this over dependency is a real threat to us and our future.


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    #97
    orangetictac
    Registered Users Posts: 252 ✭✭orangetictac


    turgon wrote: »
    I think you have lost all respect that anyone would have for you with that outdated declaration. Modern Germany is not old Germany. "They" aren't around anymore.
    This post is way overrated:p


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    #98
    LoanShark
    Registered Users Posts: 949 ✭✭✭LoanShark


    I think the german has a point...
    why would a person who represents and avg of 25,000 people get more money than a person who represents 250,00?

    Why would a leader of a country with four million get more than a leader of a country that has x+y million?

    I think it is about that our government 'clean the toilet seat before they sit down again'..
    As a nation we are WAY overpriced in EVERYTHING we do, From our basic hourly wage to our very overpaid bankers,politicans etc..
    We are in the hot steamy stuff now and we can't figure out why other countries are taking pot shots at us!!

    I reckon that when a new government is elected there should be a standard starting wage for TD's when elected say €45,000 and have a basic starting salary for office expenses say €27,000...
    Then start having reviews on an annual basis which then allows them to have incriments of say €5k per year which would then allow them to earn potential of €70k at the end of their 5yrs in govt..
    In the public sector also have the same idea,have five year contracts with a fixed starting price and have the same process..

    IF we dont sort out this country, The ECB will!!!
    And they will do it in such a way that a swift kick up the arse will actually feel good in comparison..


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    #99
    conchubhar1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,653 ✭✭✭conchubhar1


    well we cant expect the irish to do anything about it


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    #100
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    LoanShark wrote: »
    I think the german has a point...
    why would a person who represents and avg of 25,000 people get more money than a person who represents 250,00?

    +1

    And while there's some truth in the post that says €10K is stupid (even though it might reflect the level of "competence" of some of them), that's doing the maths the wrong way.

    166 TDs = 25,000 constituents each = 166 x €100,000
    16 TDs = 250,000 constituents each (as per Germany) = 16 x €100,000

    And that's only the tip of the iceberg, since they get paid "extra" for doing their job - being on committees, turning up for work, etc, and then there's the fees for all of the consultants and quangos and advisors.


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    #101
    ninty9er
    Registered Users Posts: 9,366 ✭✭✭ninty9er


    Have we gone back to 1933 in a time machine??

    Germany should keep its nose out of what's not it's business!! Especially considering the effect of Sarkozy's comments in the run-up to the last Lisbon Treaty. If I were Taoiseach I'd tell (not ask) European leaders to keep their mouths shut and noses out of what they have no role in and don't understand...being the Irish political system and the Irish electorate.

    We are not massivley over-represented based on the cubed root formula...it is 161, there are 165 + CC in the Dáil. In addition, the salary is proportionate to the job, not the number of constituents. Politicians are elected to represent, they are paid to legislate!

    Quite frankly, I couldn't give a flying fvck what the Germans think of our politicans' pay. What the electorate think is an entirely different matter, and of course political salaries are under review by the Review Body on Higher Remuneration in the Public Sector.


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    #102
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,792 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    ninty9er wrote: »
    Quite frankly, I couldn't give a flying fvck what the Germans think of our politicans' pay. What the electorate think is an entirely different matter...
    ...and the government doesn't give a flying fvck what the electorate thinks. Everyone's a winner.


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    #103
    Sand
    Registered Users Posts: 12,523 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    Have we gone back to 1933 in a time machine??

    Germany should keep its nose out of what's not it's business!! Especially considering the effect of Sarkozy's comments in the run-up to the last Lisbon Treaty. If I were Taoiseach I'd tell (not ask) European leaders to keep their mouths shut and noses out of what they have no role in and don't understand...being the Irish political system and the Irish electorate.

    We are not massivley over-represented based on the cubed root formula...it is 161, there are 165 + CC in the Dáil. In addition, the salary is proportionate to the job, not the number of constituents. Politicians are elected to represent, they are paid to legislate!

    Quite frankly, I couldn't give a flying fvck what the Germans think of our politicans' pay. What the electorate think is an entirely different matter, and of course political salaries are under review by the Review Body on Higher Remuneration in the Public Sector.

    Yeah, well thats the "Bloody Johnny Foreigner, coming over here, stealing our women/jobs/dignity" constituency well represented by our resident Fianna Failer. We could certainly do with a small amount of humility, quiet patriotism and civic responsibility. None of which will be found amongst our current political representives who mostly concern themselves with taking credit, dodging responsibility and charging the tax payer handsomely for their dubious services.
    Politicians are elected to represent, they are paid to legislate!

    Politicians are little more than county councillors. There is no real debate in the Dail. There is maybe 12-15 politicians in Ireland. The rest are simply winners of an electoral popularity contest where their job is only to show up for a few weeks out of an entire year, vote en masse as ordered by their party chief, and fill in a few forms for their constituents & show up for funerals.

    Politicians do not legislate. The cabinet ( or at least the 2 or 3 contained within the inner circle that dominate the others) legislates. The decisions are presented to the Dail to rubber stamp.

    I mean, you dismiss the German politicians - do they not represent? Do they not legislate? Do they not offer better value by representing more people for less pay?

    We pay our TDs vastly more than the German people pay their representitives on a tax payer by tax payer basis. Are you going to tell me we get value for our money?

    Honestly, check this out and then tell me how great our political representitives are. Please note that one of the Fianna Failers is so drunk/inbred that they fall off their perch and drag themselves backup to hang off the shoulder of another eejit.


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    #104
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    ninty9er wrote: »
    Have we gone back to 1933 in a time machine??

    Germany didn't rule Ireland in 1933 either :p

    I think you'll find there are many people that want politicians pay reduced and not just ze Germans!

    When do we get to vote if think they are being paid the right amount?


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    #105
    axer
    Registered Users Posts: 5,517 ✭✭✭axer


    ninty9er wrote: »
    Have we gone back to 1933 in a time machine??
    Why were we over paying out td's back then too?


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    #106
    ninty9er
    Registered Users Posts: 9,366 ✭✭✭ninty9er


    Sand wrote: »
    Politicians are little more than county councillors. There is no real debate in the Dail. There is maybe 12-15 politicians in Ireland. The rest are simply winners of an electoral popularity contest where their job is only to show up for a few weeks out of an entire year, vote en masse as ordered by their party chief, and fill in a few forms for their constituents & show up for funerals.
    :rolleyes:
    Sand wrote: »
    Politicians do not legislate. The cabinet ( or at least the 2 or 3 contained within the inner circle that dominate the others) legislates. The decisions are presented to the Dail to rubber stamp.
    I believe you'll find legislation, though it rarely fails from the government side, can be introduced by any of the 163 TDs currently sitting.
    Sand wrote: »
    I mean, you dismiss the German politicians - do they not represent? Do they not legislate? Do they not offer better value by representing more people for less pay?
    I didn't dismiss him, I dismissed his meddling in the affairs of another country. It doesn't even say if he's a member of Government. In other words, none of his business. I'm sure he does a fine job, as the majority of politicans do.
    Sand wrote: »
    Honestly, check this out and then tell me how great our political representitives are. Please note that one of the Fianna Failers is so drunk/inbred that they fall off their perch and drag themselves backup to hang off the shoulder of another eejit.
    I laughed at that myself. You'd be surprised how many people I spoke to AT the Ard-Fheis who asked the question; "what the fvck were all those idiots doing crowded round DDP?"
    thebman wrote: »
    When do we get to vote if think they are being paid the right amount?
    We don't. There's little enough interest in the job without putting off the people, many of whom already take a pay cut to do the job. We'd have independent gobdaws of all sorts running the country. If you think parochialism is alive now, that'd be a sight to behold.


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    #107
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    ninty9er wrote: »

    We don't. There's little enough interest in the job without putting off the people, many of whom already take a pay cut to do the job. We'd have independent gobdaws of all sorts running the country. If you think parochialism is alive now, that'd be a sight to behold.

    Taking the p*ss. So nobody except independents would do it for less money.

    Good one.


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    #108
    ninty9er
    Registered Users Posts: 9,366 ✭✭✭ninty9er


    thebman wrote: »
    Taking the p*ss. So nobody except independents would do it for less money.

    Good one.
    If less money was defined by the electorate! Less money no problem, but the average industiral wage for example just wouldn't wash.


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    #109
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    ninty9er wrote: »
    Have we gone back to 1933 in a time machine??

    Germany should keep its nose out of what's not it's business!! Especially considering the effect of Sarkozy's comments in the run-up to the last Lisbon Treaty. If I were Taoiseach I'd tell (not ask) European leaders to keep their mouths shut and noses out of what they have no role in and don't understand...being the Irish political system and the Irish electorate.

    We are not massivley over-represented based on the cubed root formula...it is 161, there are 165 + CC in the Dáil. In addition, the salary is proportionate to the job, not the number of constituents. Politicians are elected to represent, they are paid to legislate!

    Quite frankly, I couldn't give a flying fvck what the Germans think of our politicans' pay. What the electorate think is an entirely different matter, and of course political salaries are under review by the Review Body on Higher Remuneration in the Public Sector.

    The lady doth protest too much!


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    #110
    Sand
    Registered Users Posts: 12,523 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    I'm sure he does a fine job, as the majority of politicans do.

    A fine job, representing more people, at a lower cost to the tax payer....

    Amazing. How do they do it?
    If less money was defined by the electorate! Less money no problem, but the average industiral wage for example just wouldn't wash.

    If you were in it for the money, it wouldnt I am sure.


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