Protest at U2's tax exile status

dublinario

U2 the entity moved its business dealings to The Netherlands, which is good business acumen. People might have a moral qualm, regarding it as monetary slight-of-hand, but I don't agree with attacking Bono (as opposed to U2) over it.

I'm not a U2 fan, but Bono gives hugely of his time. He gives so much of his time, that if he never donated a euro to charity, he'd still be doing proportionally more than the vast majority of people.

javaboy

Degsy wrote: »

No i wouldnt.
I might be quiet happy to trouser the cash but i wouldnt stoop to lecturing people about how they should donate thiers.
If he's a musician he should make music and shut up about everything else.
If he believes in what he's spouting he should renounce his worldy wealth and go and live in africa,helping people like that leper priest.

He can generate more donations and help for the third world by doing what he's doing than by simply giving all his money away. It's like the story of the Golden Goose.

IvySlayer

How many U2-bashers also use Limewire to illegally download music/films which is costing the government money in terms of VAT....How many are shopping in the North.....

Degsy

javaboy wrote: »

He can generate more donations and help for the third world by doing what he's doing than by simply giving all his money away. It's like the story of the Golden Goose.

Who listens to a 4 foot,balding midget in a crappy band?
Governments?
The only awareness he's generating is awareness of himself.

I'm glad they are protesting because alot of people wouldn't know about this. They play themselves off as working class heroes who'll always be about helping the poor. Their Irish-ness is probably their biggest selling point. Yet God forbid they should pay taxes here like the rest of us. That's just for us peasants you know?

dublinario

javaboy wrote: »

It's like the story of the Golden Goose.

Exactly. And we all remember how that story ended. The Golden Goose, having returned to Narnia with Repunzle, the Ginger Bread Man, probably Humpty Dumpty, and several other oddballs, lived happily ever after (until dying of Syphilis at the ripe old age of 84). The parallels with Bono's tax thing are endless.

Wagon

Degsy wrote: »

90 quid?

Something like that. It's not uncommon though, good bands and musicians do it too. ie. The Rolling Stones, Paul McCartney... And **** acts like <snip>....something like 120 euro when she played here last wasn't it?

Degsy wrote: »

No i wouldnt.
I might be quiet happy to trouser the cash but i wouldnt stoop to lecturing people about how they should donate thiers.

I don't have much respect for any band that insists on charging that amount of cash for a gig. The best one I've heard was Micheal Eavis asked the Rolling Stones to play Glastonbury in 2007 and they said they would...if they got £1,000,000 for it. He refused, probably because the ticket prices for the whole festival would have gone through the roof and other smaller bands would have suffered the concequences as well as the public, as it would put people off from going. We got The Who instead and what a gig that was!

ejmaztec

dublinario wrote: »

Exactly. And we all remember how that story ended. The Golden Goose, having returned to Narnia with Repunzle, the Ginger Bread Man, probably Humpty Dumpty, and several other oddballs, lived happily ever after (until dying of Syphilis at the ripe old age of 84). The parallels with Bono's tax thing are endless.

I think you must have read the hard-core version.

IvySlayer

IvySlayer wrote: »

How many U2-bashers also use Limewire to illegally download music/films which is costing the government money in terms of VAT....How many are shopping in the North.....

People still spend their money. Instead of buying a cd they buy a pack of cigs and some booze. Therefore - Illegal downloading actually boosts the government coffers. Fact.

Degsy

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

I'm glad they are protesting because alot of people wouldn't know about this. They play themselves off as working class heroes who'll always be about helping the poor. Their Irish-ness is probably their biggest selling point. Yet God forbid they should pay taxes here like the rest of us. That's just for us peasants you know?

Maybe the shiitehawk is off campaigning for donations from other countries to help ireland out of its economic crises..
Yeah..maybe..pictures of unemployed white people doesnt sell records.

T-K-O

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

People still spend their money. Instead of buying a cd they buy a pack of cigs and some booze. Therefore - Illegal downloading actually boosts the government coffers. Fact.

There is only one word to describe that - bollox.

thelordofcheese

Degsy wrote: »

If he believes in what he's spouting he should renounce his worldy wealth and go and live in africa,helping people like that leper priest.

Of course this segues nicely into your bizzare theory about not giving any aid at all, because you've set the impossibly high standard that unless you renounce everything you're not actually taking it seriously enough.

People don't have donate everything, and they can donate more than just cash. Regardless of which side of your musical snobbery bono lies, the drop the debt campaign would be far less prominant without bonos involvement.

And in typical irish fashion, whenever anyone reminds us of the unholy clusterfuck that is the third world and asks that we try and help there's always someone at the back desperate to **** on that person. Lord only knows why though.

Dub13

IvySlayer wrote: »

How many U2-bashers also use Limewire to illegally download music/films which is costing the government money in terms of VAT....How many are shopping in the North.....

The same people are not banging on about increasing aid.

Shopping in the North is a different issue,company's down here have been riping us off for years I have no problem going were the deals are.

javaboy

Degsy wrote: »

Who listens to a 4 foot,balding midget in a crappy band?
Governments?

For some reason, yes they do. Also a lot of well off people who want to be seen to be associated with good causes. I don't care what their motivations are but you can't deny that he generates charitable donations.

dublinario wrote: »

Exactly. And we all remember how that story ended. The Golden Goose, having returned to Narnia with Repunzle, the Ginger Bread Man, probably Humpty Dumpty, and several other oddballs, lived happily ever after (until dying of Syphilis at the ripe old age of 84). The parallels with Bono's tax thing are endless.

Um yeah ok. The analogy is that Bono/the Golden Goose is generating donations/eggs for the third world/farmer by doing what he is doing. Take away Bono's platform (money and fame) or the Golden Goose's life and they can no longer generate donations/eggs.

I would have thought it was quite straightforward.

T-K-O

People love to hate on Bono and he can be an annoying little twat

but two things are FACT.


1. U2 Concerts are something special.
2. He brings great awareness to poverty.

dublinario

javaboy wrote: »

Um yeah ok. The analogy is that Bono/the Golden Goose is generating donations/eggs for the third world/farmer by doing what he is doing. Take away Bono's platform (money and fame) or the Golden Goose's life and they can no longer generate donations/eggs.

I would have thought it was quite straightforward.

Woah, woah, slow down professor brainiac. If, as you say, Adam Clayton is the Golden Goose, then who the hell is Bono? Repunzle? Strike three, doctor Finklestein, Repunzle was a woman. And you call yourself a mythologist? A pox on your house, sir. A pox.

Creature

Wagon wrote: »

Not completely true.

Well ticketmaster had a bit of a kick up the hole a few years ago over their really overpriced tickets and rightfully so. Dunno where to find any information on it though (it's been a while since i heard it). The artist and label decide how much to charge for their gigs.

I saw <snip> a few weeks ago. And it only cost 15 euro to see them.

<snip> have been going for years and are populular worldwide. Great band, 25 - 30 euro a ticket.

<snip>: 25 euro a ticket.

The Undertones: 20 euro a ticket and they've been going nearly 30 years.

So it's not all ticketmaster's fault. I tend to agree with Degsy on this one.

You're not really comparing those bands to U2 are you? Did you see those bands in a massive stadium like environment in a headlining slot? I'm gonna wager you didn't and that the venues were small to mid sized indoor venues.
I seriously doubt that the amount of staff required to get those gigs up and running came even close to the amount employed to get the average U2 gig going.
Though I agree that 90 euro is rather expensive, comparing the price of a U2 gig to that of The Undertones or <snip> is pretty ****ing stupid.

U2 were popular when the internet wasn't around and people had to buy albums in shops. Not to mention all the gigs they did over the years and the sheer amount of stuff they recorded and the royalties they probaby get and the numerous awards they somehow managed to win. and yet they still charge 90 euro a ticket? Bollocks. Pure greed.

Right so because they have been very successful they should just stop charging and go on an exhausting world tour without getting paid. Of course yes it's all so clear now your mighty logic overwhelms me with clarity.

ejmaztec

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

People still spend their money. Instead of buying a cd they buy a pack of cigs and some booze. Therefore - Illegal downloading actually boosts the government coffers. Fact.

And also, I don't think that any of the these people are pretending to be Mother Teresa.

Degsy

thelordofcheese wrote: »

the drop the debt campaign would be far less prominant without bonos involvement.

There's one thing i hate and thats hypocrites.
HE tells the world to drop the debt,yeah?
Then he goes and sues somebody over a hat and a pair of shiity jeans worth paenuts.
He's a hypocrite in the fullest sense of the word.

Wagon

Creature wrote: »

Though I agree that 90 euro is rather expensive, comparing the price of a U2 gig to that of The Undertones or The Datsuns is pretty ****ing stupid.

Well, seeing as how you want to reply like an asshole I may as well treat you like one. You clearly are a U2 fan offended that I don't like the band you do and I gathered that from your short **** stained reply.

They were indeed in small/medium venues, all have been around for many years (except for <snip>, still been going since 2001). They were just examples. I have a problem with paying 90 euro for a single gig and it doesn't matter how successful you are, you don't need to charge that price.

Right so because they have been very successful they should just stop charging and go on an exhausting world tour without getting paid. Of course yes it's all so clear now your mighty logic overwhelms me with clarity.

The more of your posts I read the better I feel about being me and not you. They should charge money, yes. Not 90 euro. You said yourself that you even thought that 90 euro was too much.

thelordofcheese

Degsy wrote: »

There's one thing i hate and thats hypocrites.
HE tells the world to drop the debt,yeah?
Then he goes and sues somebody over a hat and a pair of shiity jeans worth paenuts.
He's a hypocrite in the fullest sense of the word.

Hey now, don't sell yourself short, you hate plenty of things.


So let me get this straight, according to you the campaign to drop the debt owed by 3rd world countries and therefore the crippling levels of interest they have to pay back, is the work of a total hypocrite because of a court case whereby he tried to stop someone selling stolen goods as memorabilia. Am i getting you right here?

Now, while that might seem a tad petty (though understandable), i don't think it qualifies as hypocrisy. In order for it to actually be hypocrisy he'd have to be asking other people to drop the debt while doing the opposite himself. Like if Lola Cashman owed bono a sum of money and he was putting the squeeze on her while asking world governments to drop third world debt.
THAT would be hypocrisy. Not what you're talking about.

Just because someone has the audacity to make money AND try to relieve third world debt doesn't make them a hypocrite, no matter how much of grudge you have against them for inexplicable reasons.

Wagon

Look at what he've become lads! One mention of Bono and everyone starts fighting amongst themselves! Shouldn't we be working together?

asdasd

In order for it to actually be hypocrisy he'd have to be asking other people to drop the debt while doing the opposite himself. Like if Lola Cashman owed bono a sum of money and he was putting the squeeze on her while asking world governments to drop third world debt.

What? There is very little difference between leaving her off a debt, and letting her have some memorabilia which Bono is probably not going to wear, or want anymore anyway.

( anyway Bono wuldnt have given her a loan. Tightwad).

the real hypocircy is this

a) Bono wants Western countries to pay 0.7% of GDP in tax.
b) Bono moves - with U2 - to a lower tax regime when favourable conditions change in Ireland.
c) Result the old tax regime - Ireland - has to pay that tax from elsewhere.

Fratton Fred

The coalition met Minister for Finance Brian Lenihan who pointed out that the Government had abolished the Cinderella rule where people could say they had not spent a day in Ireland if they left by midnight.

“We have tax treaties with other countries that regulate where you pay tax. There is a problem with smaller countries that have to set up deliberate tax havens. We are raising that at EU level,” the Minister said though he did not address the specific issue of U2’s tax affairs.

Classic. Please don't tell me an Irish government minister actually said that

I wonder if there are similar protests in Seattle? http://www.finfacts.ie/irelandbusinessnews/publish/article_10005150.shtml

IvySlayer

Dub13 wrote: »

The same people are not banging on about increasing aid.

Shopping in the North is a different issue,company's down here have been riping us off for years I have no problem going were the deals are.

I'm just pointing out how hypocritical people are. They moan about U2 trying to avoid paying tax, when we as consumers do the exact same thing flocking up to Newrys.

yoshytoshy

Bono is the epitome of capitalisation ,hypocrite.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Degsy wrote: »

Who listens to a 4 foot,balding midget in a crappy band?
Governments?
The only awareness he's generating is awareness of himself.

You don't have any argument... stop, seriously.

Degsy wrote: »

There's one thing i hate and thats hypocrites.
HE tells the world to drop the debt,yeah?
Then he goes and sues somebody over a hat and a pair of shiity jeans worth paenuts.
He's a hypocrite in the fullest sense of the word.

So his helping the less well off is wrong? Someone stealing is wrong. Simple as. What have you done lately for society?

yoshytoshy

The only reason why bono gets involved with third world issues ,is because he's a guilty egotist.
Of course people want to help the third world ,but they don't wear stupid sunglasses and give a two fingered salute.
There are plenty of good people on the planet ,bono likes to tell people he is.

ejmaztec

Old Bono certainly takes the biscuit. He thinks he's the dog's.

Degsy

thelordofcheese wrote: »

interest they have to pay back, is the work of a total hypocrite because of a court case whereby he tried to stop someone selling stolen goods as memorabilia. Like if Lola Cashman owed bono a sum of money and he was putting the squeeze on her while asking world governments to drop third world debt.

First off where did you get the idea they were stolen?She says he presented them to her at the end of a tour and she presumed he wouldnt mind them being sold.
But he did mind..this wasnt about the jeans.
He used the courtcase to attempt to bankrupt somebody who had nothing like his level of wealth simply becaue she painted him in less than glowing terms in her book.
So,not only was it the work of a hypocrite but it was the work of a spitefull,mean-spirited hypocrte.
If he was as God-like as he pretends he wouldnt stoop to such low practises as he'd be above all that.