Protest at U2's tax exile status

Dub13

Does anybody know if many turned up for this...?

The IrishTimes

Protest at U2's tax exile status

RONAN McGREEVY

Protesters have demonstrated outside the Department of Finance against U2’s decision to move their tax affairs to the Netherlands to avoid paying tax on their royalties in Ireland.

The protest was organised by the Debt and Development Coalition Ireland (DDCI) which campaigns on issues related to the developing world. The coalition contains such organisations as Concern Worldwide, Trócaire, Oxfam and various Catholic missionary orders.

U2 moved their publishing arm to the Netherlands in 2006 after the Government capped tax-free earnings for artists at €250,000. Previously, U2 had been one of the biggest beneficiaries of Ireland's tax-free status for artist royalties.

The coalition met Minister for Finance Brian Lenihan who pointed out that the Government had abolished the Cinderella rule where people could say they had not spent a day in Ireland if they left by midnight.

“We have tax treaties with other countries that regulate where you pay tax. There is a problem with smaller countries that have to set up deliberate tax havens. We are raising that at EU level,” the Minister said though he did not address the specific issue of U2’s tax affairs. The band are resident in Ireland for tax purposes.

Accounts for 2007 for U2 Ltd show the band paid out more than €21 million in wages in 2007 in a relatively quiet year where they were not touring or releasing new material.

Bono impersonator Paul O’Toole reworked the lyrics of I Still Haven’t Found What I’m Looking For to mock the band’s decision. “I know avoiding tax ain’t fair/it’s just because I’m a millionaire, I don’t need to pay like you, no, I won’t pay like you/because I still haven’t learned about democracy.”

Mr O’Toole said: “Their music does not bother me. It is their policy of avoiding tax that bothers me. Bono talks about dead kids, but he won’t pay a penny towards it.”

Mr O’Toole posed with a mock-up of a donation to the world's poor in one hand and a large sack of unpaid tax in the other.

The DDCI is following it up with the launch of an “international song contest” inviting re-worded versions of U2 classics to highlight the band’s stance on tax.

It is timed to coincide with the release of U2's new album No Line on the Horizon which goes on sale at midnight on Friday.

DDCI co-ordinator Nessa ní Chasaíde said the decision to holding the protest outside the department of Finance was to highlight the fact that U2’s tax avoidance measures deprives the Irish exchequer of taxation revenue that could be spent on development aid.

“Bono has championed the call for increases in aid to impoverished countries, yet in his personal life he is engaged in tax avoidance issues and it is tax avoidance that is undermining the possibility of developing countries fighting their way out of poverty,” she said.

“The practice of being able to move your finances around easily and without high levels of transparency is extremely problematic for developing countries. The kind of practice that U2 is engaging in is part of that problem.”

Nobody from U2 was available for comment, but the band will defend their tax measures in an extensive interview to be published in this newspaper on Friday.

super_furry

Greedy twats. I'll take pleasure in illegally downloading their album.

Then deleting it, because they're ****e.

Jesus Wept

Here we go again.

Oh The Humanity

They truly are sh1te and have been for many years.

Can they not remove themselves to the Netherlands and get the fook out of the newspapers.

I refuse to read the daily Bono/U2 story and Im sure the vast majority of people also do.....are there no marketing people taking note of this fact and realising that the daily Bono/U2 story is an eyesore and needs to be removed....FORTHWITH !

kevmy

Don't understand the big deal.

They done it a couple of years ago.

They can do what they want with their own tax affairs.

Bono gives plenty of money to charities himself so I don't see how U2 not paying tax here affects things in that regard.

Anyway Bono does pay tax here just not the publishing arm of U2 (which has 4 other members the 3 lads and Paul McGuinness)

Jesus Wept

Oh The Humanity wrote: »

I refuse to read the daily Bono/U2 story

..

chin_grin

So when are we gonna create the sticky "AH:Breaking News" thread?

I think the less Ireland has to do with U2 the better.

(played over black and white images of the band)
Please, if you love Bono and the Edge enough take them in as your own. Give x euro a month and you can have a personal band to do to as you wish. Personally? Slow and painful torture. Playing their own whiney sh*t to them Gitmo style.

Degsy

kevmy wrote: »

Don't understand the big deal.

They done it a couple of years ago.

They can do what they want with their own tax affairs.

Bono gives plenty of money to charities himself so I don't see how U2 not paying tax here affects things in that regard

The dwarfish littel hypocrite should give ALL of his money away if he believes in it so much..but does he?
not a bit.
Driven by pure greed,they should take thier money-grabbing arses and go and live in africa.

CreepingDeath

Where's Bob Geldof, maybe he can organise an "Ireland AID" concert for us.

Mr. Incognito

Point and throw sticks but you'd do the exact same thing in their shoes so save me the holier than thou speech.

If it's a choice between my pocket and the taxman- pass me the blunt and the wooden shoes.

And yes their music is **** but who cares.

chin_grin

CreepingDeath wrote: »

Where's Bob Geldof, maybe he can organise an "Ireland AID" concert for us.

Didn't you hear? AIDS. It's finally funny!

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Degsy wrote: »

The dwarfish littel hypocrite should give ALL of his money away if he believes in it so much..but does he?
not a bit.
Driven by pure greed,they should take thier money-grabbing arses and go and live in africa.

FFS, do you troll about everything?

You think that people donating to charity should give all their money or nothing at all? Why should he give all his money away?

Good band, always have been. The begrudgers of Ireland will always hate them though...

gerry28

If U2 live here they should pay tax here. If all the rich people like bono paid their tax it would go a long way to helping this country. He helps Africa for the glory and should consider helping his own country too.

AngryBadger

Paul O' Toole wrote:

Bono talks about dead kids, but he won’t pay a penny towards it.

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

Seriously though, moving their affairs to The Netherlands does make Bono's constant wnaking himself off about "the poor" seem like total hypocrisy.

T-K-O

Again this is the Governments fault not Bono or U2... IMO this is the same as all those stupid perks that are available to the private sector..

It's human nature to take advantage of these loop holes its up those stupid dead brain idiots in the Dail to sort it out.

Fanny Cradock

gerry28 wrote: »

If U2 live here they should pay tax here. If all the rich people like bono paid their tax it would go a long way to helping this country. He helps Africa for the glory and should consider helping his own country too.

They do pay tax.

Dub13

Presley Damaged Scout wrote: »

Good band, always have been. The begrudgers of Ireland will always hate them though...

Do you not think its hypocritical to be asking the Government to increase aid and on the other hand avoiding paying tax here..?

Degsy

Presley Damaged Scout wrote: »

Good band, always have been. The begrudgers of Ireland will always hate them though...

the "begrudhgers" of ireland were the ones who put them where they are now..it was the "begrudgers" who bought thier records and wentto their gigs.
How did U2 repay the people who made thier career?
Charge them massive prices for concerts,harangue them into giving away thier money to charities and piss off abroad to avoid paying tax.
Utter,utter scumbags.

Tech3

AngryBadger wrote: »

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

Seriously though, moving their affairs to The Netherlands does make Bono's constant wnaking himself off about "the poor" seem like total hypocrisy.

Its taxes their paying. It will go straight to our lovely corrupt government. What has that got to do with the poor. Many people would do the same if they were in that sort of position. It makes perfect economical sense. Their music sucks btw.

gerry28

They do pay tax.

Not in the same why your average PAYE worker has to.

T-K-O

tech2 wrote: »

Its taxes their paying. It will go straight to our lovely corrupt government. What has that got to do with the poor. Many people would do the same if they were in that sort of position. It makes perfect economical sense. Their music sucks btw.

Exactly or some twat sitting in a government build scratching his...

Now everyone should pay the taxes but this country makes it really difficult when we have to listen to the likes of Lenihan and Biffo :rolleyes:

AngryBadger

tech2 wrote: »

Its taxes their paying. It will go straight to our lovely corrupt government. What has that got to do with the poor. Many people would do the same if they were in that sort of position. It makes perfect economical sense. Their music sucks btw.

The lovely, corrupt government is the only government around right now, and the ****ty state of affairs is the ONLY state of affairs right now. So who're you suggesting people pay taxes too instead?

What it's got to do with the poor is that in theory taxation is supposed to pay for everyone to have a certain basic standard of living including education and medical treatment. Without basic levels a lot more people would wind up on the breadlines.

Effectively Bono is advocating helping people in other countries while happily refusing to pay his share of the costs of helping people in his own country.

End of.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Dub13 wrote: »

Do you not think its hypocritical to be asking the Government to increase aid and on the other hand avoiding paying tax here..?

They pay taxes. Why should they keep their company here? It makes perfect business sence to relocate.

Degsy wrote: »

the "begrudhgers" of ireland were the ones who put them where they are now..it was the "begrudgers" who bought thier records and wentto their gigs.
How did U2 repay the people who made thier career?
Charge them massive prices for concerts,harangue them into giving away thier money to charities and piss off abroad to avoid paying tax.
Utter,utter scumbags.

They pay tax. They do not charge a lot of their tickets, blame ticketmaster for that.

tech2 wrote: »

Its taxes their paying. It will go straight to our lovely corrupt government. What has that got to do with the poor. Many people would do the same if they were in that sort of position. It makes perfect economical sense. Their music sucks btw.

Exactly...

Degsy

gerry28 wrote: »

Not in the same why your average PAYE worker has to.

Not only that,they're jumping through hoops to minimise any contribution to the exchequer at all.
And this from the man who wants world debt written off.
The same man who took somebody to court over a hat.
A louse,that Bono.

T-K-O

Well if U2 move their company that's fine but they can feck right of when they start banging on about us meeting that gdp target.

I heard some bloke on the radio giving out because we are not going to meet what ever percentage we agreed to, I just thought WTF, we are broke as a joke and you want us to give more away.

Dub13

Presley Damaged Scout wrote: »

They pay taxes. Why should they keep their company here? It makes perfect business sence to relocate.

In a normal business I would agree,but this is a business fronted by a lobbying to in crease aid by the very same Government is is avoiding.

I wounder if the 'fly man' has been lobbying The Netherlands Government to increase aid.Probably not as it would not make the media here or in the US/UK.

Wagon

Presley Damaged Scout wrote: »

They pay tax. They do not charge a lot of their tickets, blame ticketmaster for that.

Not completely true.

Well ticketmaster had a bit of a kick up the hole a few years ago over their really overpriced tickets and rightfully so. Dunno where to find any information on it though (it's been a while since i heard it). The artist and label decide how much to charge for their gigs.

I saw <snip> a few weeks ago. And it only cost 15 euro to see them.

<snip> have been going for years and are populular worldwide. Great band, 25 - 30 euro a ticket.

<snip>: 25 euro a ticket.

The Undertones: 20 euro a ticket and they've been going nearly 30 years.

So it's not all ticketmaster's fault. I tend to agree with Degsy on this one. U2 were popular when the internet wasn't around and people had to buy albums in shops. Not to mention all the gigs they did over the years and the sheer amount of stuff they recorded and the royalties they probaby get and the numerous awards they somehow managed to win. and yet they still charge 90 euro a ticket? Bollocks. Pure greed.

twinytwo

Degsy wrote: »

The dwarfish littel hypocrite should give ALL of his money away if he believes in it so much..but does he?
not a bit.
Driven by pure greed,they should take thier money-grabbing arses and go and live in africa.

As if u wouldnt do the exact same thing in his shoes... once again get over yourself

Degsy

Wagon wrote: »

So it's not all ticketmaster's fault. I tend to agree with Degsy on this one. U2 were popular when the internet wasn't around and people had to buy albums in shops. Not to mention all the gigs they did over the years and the sheer amount of stuff they recorded and the royalties they probaby get and the numerous awards they somehow managed to win. and yet they still charge 90 euro a ticket? Bollocks. Pure greed.

90 quid?
I wonder what they'll be charging for their next gig so people can listen to McMidget prating on a bout the third world.
They've always been greedy,the idea of doing a cut-price or maybe free gig in Ireland never occured to them and now they live abroad,knowing the irish dopes will probably pay whatever they ask for thier latest crappy album.

Degsy

twinytwo wrote: »

As if u wouldnt do the exact same thing in his shoes... once again get over yourself

No i wouldnt.
I might be quiet happy to trouser the cash but i wouldnt stoop to lecturing people about how they should donate thiers.
If he's a musician he should make music and shut up about everything else.
If he believes in what he's spouting he should renounce his worldy wealth and go and live in africa,helping people like that leper priest.

Degag

Meh, if any of ye were bono, ye'd do the exact same thing... You'd all probably be happy with not paying tax though and not start campaigning for human rights.

dublinario

U2 the entity moved its business dealings to The Netherlands, which is good business acumen. People might have a moral qualm, regarding it as monetary slight-of-hand, but I don't agree with attacking Bono (as opposed to U2) over it.

I'm not a U2 fan, but Bono gives hugely of his time. He gives so much of his time, that if he never donated a euro to charity, he'd still be doing proportionally more than the vast majority of people.

javaboy

Degsy wrote: »

No i wouldnt.
I might be quiet happy to trouser the cash but i wouldnt stoop to lecturing people about how they should donate thiers.
If he's a musician he should make music and shut up about everything else.
If he believes in what he's spouting he should renounce his worldy wealth and go and live in africa,helping people like that leper priest.

He can generate more donations and help for the third world by doing what he's doing than by simply giving all his money away. It's like the story of the Golden Goose.

IvySlayer

How many U2-bashers also use Limewire to illegally download music/films which is costing the government money in terms of VAT....How many are shopping in the North.....

Degsy

javaboy wrote: »

He can generate more donations and help for the third world by doing what he's doing than by simply giving all his money away. It's like the story of the Golden Goose.

Who listens to a 4 foot,balding midget in a crappy band?
Governments?
The only awareness he's generating is awareness of himself.

I'm glad they are protesting because alot of people wouldn't know about this. They play themselves off as working class heroes who'll always be about helping the poor. Their Irish-ness is probably their biggest selling point. Yet God forbid they should pay taxes here like the rest of us. That's just for us peasants you know?

dublinario

javaboy wrote: »

It's like the story of the Golden Goose.

Exactly. And we all remember how that story ended. The Golden Goose, having returned to Narnia with Repunzle, the Ginger Bread Man, probably Humpty Dumpty, and several other oddballs, lived happily ever after (until dying of Syphilis at the ripe old age of 84). The parallels with Bono's tax thing are endless.

Wagon

Degsy wrote: »

90 quid?

Something like that. It's not uncommon though, good bands and musicians do it too. ie. The Rolling Stones, Paul McCartney... And **** acts like <snip>....something like 120 euro when she played here last wasn't it?

Degsy wrote: »

No i wouldnt.
I might be quiet happy to trouser the cash but i wouldnt stoop to lecturing people about how they should donate thiers.

I don't have much respect for any band that insists on charging that amount of cash for a gig. The best one I've heard was Micheal Eavis asked the Rolling Stones to play Glastonbury in 2007 and they said they would...if they got £1,000,000 for it. He refused, probably because the ticket prices for the whole festival would have gone through the roof and other smaller bands would have suffered the concequences as well as the public, as it would put people off from going. We got The Who instead and what a gig that was!

ejmaztec

dublinario wrote: »

Exactly. And we all remember how that story ended. The Golden Goose, having returned to Narnia with Repunzle, the Ginger Bread Man, probably Humpty Dumpty, and several other oddballs, lived happily ever after (until dying of Syphilis at the ripe old age of 84). The parallels with Bono's tax thing are endless.

I think you must have read the hard-core version.

IvySlayer

IvySlayer wrote: »

How many U2-bashers also use Limewire to illegally download music/films which is costing the government money in terms of VAT....How many are shopping in the North.....

People still spend their money. Instead of buying a cd they buy a pack of cigs and some booze. Therefore - Illegal downloading actually boosts the government coffers. Fact.

Degsy

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

I'm glad they are protesting because alot of people wouldn't know about this. They play themselves off as working class heroes who'll always be about helping the poor. Their Irish-ness is probably their biggest selling point. Yet God forbid they should pay taxes here like the rest of us. That's just for us peasants you know?

Maybe the shiitehawk is off campaigning for donations from other countries to help ireland out of its economic crises..
Yeah..maybe..pictures of unemployed white people doesnt sell records.

T-K-O

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

People still spend their money. Instead of buying a cd they buy a pack of cigs and some booze. Therefore - Illegal downloading actually boosts the government coffers. Fact.

There is only one word to describe that - bollox.

thelordofcheese

Degsy wrote: »

If he believes in what he's spouting he should renounce his worldy wealth and go and live in africa,helping people like that leper priest.

Of course this segues nicely into your bizzare theory about not giving any aid at all, because you've set the impossibly high standard that unless you renounce everything you're not actually taking it seriously enough.

People don't have donate everything, and they can donate more than just cash. Regardless of which side of your musical snobbery bono lies, the drop the debt campaign would be far less prominant without bonos involvement.

And in typical irish fashion, whenever anyone reminds us of the unholy clusterfuck that is the third world and asks that we try and help there's always someone at the back desperate to **** on that person. Lord only knows why though.

Dub13

IvySlayer wrote: »

How many U2-bashers also use Limewire to illegally download music/films which is costing the government money in terms of VAT....How many are shopping in the North.....

The same people are not banging on about increasing aid.

Shopping in the North is a different issue,company's down here have been riping us off for years I have no problem going were the deals are.

javaboy

Degsy wrote: »

Who listens to a 4 foot,balding midget in a crappy band?
Governments?

For some reason, yes they do. Also a lot of well off people who want to be seen to be associated with good causes. I don't care what their motivations are but you can't deny that he generates charitable donations.

dublinario wrote: »

Exactly. And we all remember how that story ended. The Golden Goose, having returned to Narnia with Repunzle, the Ginger Bread Man, probably Humpty Dumpty, and several other oddballs, lived happily ever after (until dying of Syphilis at the ripe old age of 84). The parallels with Bono's tax thing are endless.

Um yeah ok. The analogy is that Bono/the Golden Goose is generating donations/eggs for the third world/farmer by doing what he is doing. Take away Bono's platform (money and fame) or the Golden Goose's life and they can no longer generate donations/eggs.

I would have thought it was quite straightforward.

T-K-O

People love to hate on Bono and he can be an annoying little twat

but two things are FACT.


1. U2 Concerts are something special.
2. He brings great awareness to poverty.

dublinario

javaboy wrote: »

Um yeah ok. The analogy is that Bono/the Golden Goose is generating donations/eggs for the third world/farmer by doing what he is doing. Take away Bono's platform (money and fame) or the Golden Goose's life and they can no longer generate donations/eggs.

I would have thought it was quite straightforward.

Woah, woah, slow down professor brainiac. If, as you say, Adam Clayton is the Golden Goose, then who the hell is Bono? Repunzle? Strike three, doctor Finklestein, Repunzle was a woman. And you call yourself a mythologist? A pox on your house, sir. A pox.

Creature

Wagon wrote: »

Not completely true.

Well ticketmaster had a bit of a kick up the hole a few years ago over their really overpriced tickets and rightfully so. Dunno where to find any information on it though (it's been a while since i heard it). The artist and label decide how much to charge for their gigs.

I saw <snip> a few weeks ago. And it only cost 15 euro to see them.

<snip> have been going for years and are populular worldwide. Great band, 25 - 30 euro a ticket.

<snip>: 25 euro a ticket.

The Undertones: 20 euro a ticket and they've been going nearly 30 years.

So it's not all ticketmaster's fault. I tend to agree with Degsy on this one.

You're not really comparing those bands to U2 are you? Did you see those bands in a massive stadium like environment in a headlining slot? I'm gonna wager you didn't and that the venues were small to mid sized indoor venues.
I seriously doubt that the amount of staff required to get those gigs up and running came even close to the amount employed to get the average U2 gig going.
Though I agree that 90 euro is rather expensive, comparing the price of a U2 gig to that of The Undertones or <snip> is pretty ****ing stupid.

U2 were popular when the internet wasn't around and people had to buy albums in shops. Not to mention all the gigs they did over the years and the sheer amount of stuff they recorded and the royalties they probaby get and the numerous awards they somehow managed to win. and yet they still charge 90 euro a ticket? Bollocks. Pure greed.

Right so because they have been very successful they should just stop charging and go on an exhausting world tour without getting paid. Of course yes it's all so clear now your mighty logic overwhelms me with clarity.

ejmaztec

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

People still spend their money. Instead of buying a cd they buy a pack of cigs and some booze. Therefore - Illegal downloading actually boosts the government coffers. Fact.

And also, I don't think that any of the these people are pretending to be Mother Teresa.

Degsy

thelordofcheese wrote: »

the drop the debt campaign would be far less prominant without bonos involvement.

There's one thing i hate and thats hypocrites.
HE tells the world to drop the debt,yeah?
Then he goes and sues somebody over a hat and a pair of shiity jeans worth paenuts.
He's a hypocrite in the fullest sense of the word.

Wagon

Creature wrote: »

Though I agree that 90 euro is rather expensive, comparing the price of a U2 gig to that of The Undertones or The Datsuns is pretty ****ing stupid.

Well, seeing as how you want to reply like an asshole I may as well treat you like one. You clearly are a U2 fan offended that I don't like the band you do and I gathered that from your short **** stained reply.

They were indeed in small/medium venues, all have been around for many years (except for <snip>, still been going since 2001). They were just examples. I have a problem with paying 90 euro for a single gig and it doesn't matter how successful you are, you don't need to charge that price.

Right so because they have been very successful they should just stop charging and go on an exhausting world tour without getting paid. Of course yes it's all so clear now your mighty logic overwhelms me with clarity.

The more of your posts I read the better I feel about being me and not you. They should charge money, yes. Not 90 euro. You said yourself that you even thought that 90 euro was too much.