Impressive - Martin Fagan

Clum

You're all getting way ahead of yourselves. If his come back plans include a marathon he's learned nothing in his career. 1 finish from 4 and the one he finished injured him badly. His track record suggests a dnf in Dublin, if he makes the starting line.

robinph

yosser hughes wrote: »

Everyone knows the rules? You don't obviously. You've no problem with him running though? How very noble of you.

Aware of the rules. Doesn't mean that they are right though.

average_runner

Clum wrote: »

You're all getting way ahead of yourselves. If his come back plans include a marathon he's learned nothing in his career. 1 finish from 4 and the one he finished injured him badly. His track record suggests a dnf in Dublin, if he makes the starting line.

Thought alot of that was down to his coach training methods?

average_runner

robinph wrote: »

Aware of the rules. Doesn't mean that they are right though.

Did u ever make a bad mistake but was forgiven?
Now if he does again its goodbye

robinph

Goes to see what direction the group is thinking in the Tyson Gay / Russian marathon runner (who I'm not going to try and spell on the mobile) thread...


Hmm, so one guy should get a more severe ban, but our guy is alright really and just took a couple of bad cchoices and should be let back in.

These threads are normally a lot more critical in their opinion of the drug cheat, the ban handed out and what they should be allowed to do after the ban.

Clum

average_runner wrote: »

Thought alot of that was down to his coach training methods?

Maybe, but his last marathon was with a different coach to his first few. He had no difficulties running cross country or shorter road races (10k to half mara) under either coach so I think it's the marathons that didn't suit him, not the coaches.

Robin, I don't condone his return, just making observations on his previous form.

rom

If those in our society get a 2nd chance. An example is someone who drink drives and kills someone. An example from the other day. http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/civil-engineer-who-killed-man-while-drunk-driving-wrong-way-down-dual-carriageway-jailed-for-three-years-30236422.html

He gets a 15 years driving ban on top of a 3 years in Jail. If he is allowed behind the wheel of a car again then a drug cheat should get to run again. IMHO both should get life bans but this is how our society works.

curtisbrown

There's an interview with Fagan in yesterday's Irish Times, I can't post the link

Krusty_Clown

curtisbrown wrote: »

There's an interview with Fagan in yesterday's Irish Times, I can't post the link

Wondered how long it would be, before this thread was resurrected. I expect there will be some heated debate over the next couple of days. Here's the article: Irish Times.

And just for those who don't know yet, he won the Terenure 5 mile today, in a time of 24:23, out sprinting Freddy Sittuk. He was 30 seconds ahead of Joe Sweeney, so he seems to be in really good form. As a former hero of mine, I'm very much on the fence every time I hear a positive race result. I think it's great to see him re-gain his confidence and racing form, but I'm not sure how much I welcome the results. It's almost a shame that reformed drug-cheats who have served their time can't compete in a separete class in a race, that would allow them to compete against everyone else, but not enjoy the plaudits or rewards.

career_move

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Wondered how long it would be, before this thread was resurrected. I expect there will be some heated debate over the next couple of days. Here's the article: Irish Times.

And just for those who don't know yet, he won the Terenure 5 mile today, in a time of 24:23, out sprinting Freddy Sittuk. He was 30 seconds ahead of Joe Sweeney, so he seems to be in really good form. As a former hero of mine, I'm very much on the fence every time I hear a positive race result. I think it's great to see him re-gain his confidence and racing form, but I'm not sure how much I welcome the results. It's almost a shame that reformed drug-cheats who have served their time can't compete in a separete class in a race, that would allow them to compete against everyone else, but not enjoy the plaudits or rewards.

Thanks for the link. Nice article. Not too sure about the bit in bold though. It seems a bit patronising or something - ya we'll let you play with us but in a different part of the yard sort of thing He obviously trains as hard or harder than anyone else why shouldn't he get the plaudits and rewards for being the best on the day?

paddybarry

I can only imagine how tough it is struggling with a mental illness. I could easily see how someone could make some bad choices in that state of mind.

Should they have to pay for that mistake for the rest of their days? I dont think so. The shame and embarrashment is punishment enough, especially for someone who was revered in their chosen sport.

The lad made a mistake, held his hands up, took his punishment.

He now deserves a second chance. I hope he goes on and achieve great things.

groovyg

I wish he would stop giving interviews to Ian o Riordain and playing the friggin victim card.

rovers_runner

paddybarry wrote: »

I can only imagine how tough it is struggling with a mental illness. I could easily see how someone could make some bad choices in that state of mind.

Should they have to pay for that mistake for the rest of their days? I dont think so. The shame and embarrashment is punishment enough, especially for someone who was revered in their chosen sport.

The lad made a mistake, held his hands up, took his punishment.

He now deserves a second chance. I hope he goes on and achieve great things.

Why does mental illness serve as an excuse or reason even for breaking the rules in what was not a life or death situation. He was blessed with talent for a sport and chose to cheat to gain an advantage over his competition. IMHO it should be one strike and you are out, enter for fun if you like but never have the right to compete again.

He knowingly took the risk and has ruined his reputation and the faith people put in athlethes in general.

It's a sad day for any race organizer when a drug cheat turns up and wins against honest people. I feel very sorry for sportsworld and their race which has history.

overpronator

misread that post

paddybarry

rovers_runner wrote: »

Why does mental illness serve as an excuse or reason even for breaking the rules in what was not a life or death situation. He was blessed with talent for a sport and chose to cheat to gain an advantage over his competition. IMHO it should be one strike and you are out, enter for fun if you like but never have the right to compete again.

He knowingly took the risk and has ruined his reputation and the faith people put in athlethes in general.

It's a sad day for any race organizer when a drug cheat turns up and wins against honest people. I feel very sorry for sportsworld and their race which has history.

Mental illness is not an excuse. However, I can see how someone suffering mental illness can make bad choices. I dont think that such choices should result in 'life sentence'.

I have never suffered from a mental illness but in my job as a teacher, I have come across students who have had mental illnesses. It is really frightening the hold it can take over someone.

career_move

rovers_runner wrote: »

It's a sad day for any race organizer when a drug cheat turns up and wins against honest people. I feel very sorry for sportsworld and their race which has history.

Please spare us the sanctimonious rubbish. Sportsworld obviously have no problem with him if they invited him

rovers_runner

career_move wrote: »

Please spare us the sanctimonious rubbish. Sportsworld obviously have no problem with him if they invited him

Do you know that for sure ?
Wouldn't have thought anyone would queue up to invite a drugs cheat to head the field of their race...

career_move

rovers_runner wrote: »

Do you know that for sure ?
Wouldn't have thought anyone would queue up to invite a drugs cheat to head the field of their race...

As per the Irish times article

There are others who believe Fagan still has the talent which in 2009 saw him break John Treacy’s Irish half-marathon record, when running 60 minutes and 57 seconds for the 13.1 miles. They include the organisers of some better-known road races, including tomorrow’s Terenure 5 mile who have invited Fagan to run. He hopes he can return that favour by delivering a decent performance.

rovers_runner

career_move wrote: »

As per the Irish times article

There are others who believe Fagan still has the talent which in 2009 saw him break John Treacy’s Irish half-marathon record, when running 60 minutes and 57 seconds for the 13.1 miles. They include the organisers of some better-known road races, including tomorrow’s Terenure 5 mile who have invited Fagan to run. He hopes he can return that favour by delivering a decent performance.

I take my point back so, pity that some people are willing to allow this carry on.
Hope the Donore lads tell him where to go...

menoscemo

rovers_runner wrote: »

Do you know that for sure ?
Wouldn't have thought anyone would queue up to invite a drugs cheat to head the field of their race...

Yes, they announced earlier in the week on their FB page that they were inviting him.
https://www.facebook.com/terenure5mile/photos/a.722328414486453.1073741828.312594505459848/759341677451793/?type=1&theater

mithril

paddybarry wrote: »

He now deserves a second chance. I hope he goes on and achieve great things.

Seemed a very likeable guy and got a warm reception in Terenure today.
However, the article is very soft and does not deal with any of the points raised by Paul Kimmage and others who have made a convincing case that he has told a pack of lies about the circumstances in which he took drugs. Not sure he deserves a second chance in these circumstances.

adrian522

Yeah that article is poor, comes across as O'Riordan is a close friend or something?

wrstan

Indeed Fagan thinks one of the reasons he can perhaps go with this decision to run again is that he doesn’t feel he stole anything from anybody, or even cost them a place on any team.

I can't quite believe I just read that!

LacticAthlete

Great Article from Ian, asks all the right questions, deals with all the issues and paints Fagan in the light he should be painted.....

is what i would say if i was Fagan.

Ian should be hauled over the coals for this, disgraceful!!


Also...

"From there, after both declaring our relative lack of fitness, like all runners do, we start out on a few slow loops around UCD, repeatedly asking each other if the pace is okay."

No Ian, just no.

Krusty_Clown

career_move wrote: »

It seems a bit patronising or something - ya we'll let you play with us but in a different part of the yard sort of thing He obviously trains as hard or harder than anyone else why shouldn't he get the plaudits and rewards for being the best on the day?

I know what you mean, but I don't think patronising is the right word. Maybe 'discrimination' is a better fit. And yes, it would be a form of discrimination (discrimination can be both positive and negative) that would allow him to play in the same playground, without affecting the results of those who opted not to cheat; those who train equally as hard, but don't take the perceived short-cuts. I'm all for forgiveness (not that he wants my forgiveness!) and actually would have no problem toeing the line in a race with him (for however brief a period that was), but the idea of him taking prize-money over those who have achieved their success without cheating just doesn't sit well with me. I'd imagine it doesn't entirely sit well with Martin either. I wouldn't think he's in it for the money (there's not a lot to go around), but to try and regain some self-respect.

robinph

If he's able to be running that pace and out sprinting someone else to the line then he should have been running as a 26 minute pace maker for the other guys.

thirstywork2

rom wrote: »

Back on the scene is not doing a 10k where 6 people break 40 mins. FFS parkrun is more competitive than that. Is he allowed do fun runs or sponsored walks? Come back to me when he enters a competitive race.

Would you call today a competitive race?

thirstywork2

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I know what you mean, but I don't think patronising is the right word. Maybe 'discrimination' is a better fit. And yes, it would be a form of discrimination (discrimination can be both positive and negative) that would allow him to play in the same playground, without affecting the results of those who opted not to cheat; those who train equally as hard, but don't take the perceived short-cuts. I'm all for forgiveness (not that he wants my forgiveness!) and actually would have no problem toeing the line in a race with him (for however brief a period that was), but the idea of him taking prize-money over those who have achieved their success without cheating just doesn't sit well with me. I'd imagine it doesn't entirely sit well with Martin either. I wouldn't think he's in it for the money (there's not a lot to go around), but to try and regain some self-respect.

Not sure about today's race but all the races Martin has ran so far he has given back the money and not accepted a cent.
Yes he will try regain respect but some people won't forgive him and that is their right to.
Mistakes made and a big one but Martin is a likeable guy and im glad to see him back racing(again I have my opinion like anyone)
I remember two years ago a customer came into me and was from Westmeath and I asked her about her training ect.She told me a guy called Martin was coaching a large group of first time marathon runners in the town.Turns out it was Martin and doing this free just to see others enjoy the thrill of their first marathon.
He did not kill anyone but cheated and for me it's time to move on.

nerraw1111

thirstywork2 wrote: »

Not sure about today's race but all the races Martin has ran so far he has given back the money and not accepted a cent.
Yes he will try regain respect but some people won't forgive him and that is their right to.
Mistakes made and a big one but Martin is a likeable guy and im glad to see him back racing(again I have my opinion like anyone)
I remember two years ago a customer came into me and was from Westmeath and I asked her about her training ect.She told me a guy called Martin was coaching a large group of first time marathon runners in the town.Turns out it was Martin and doing this free just to see others enjoy the thrill of their first marathon.
He did not kill anyone but cheated and for me it's time to move on.

Sure Armstrong had Livestrong. Anecdotes are just that. Feck all to do with doping and cheating. Nice stories but doesn't change anything. Not referring to anyone in particular. Cycling is littered with nice guys who doped.

ultrapercy

rovers_runner wrote: »

Why does mental illness serve as an excuse or reason even for breaking the rules in what was not a life or death situation. He was blessed with talent for a sport and chose to cheat to gain an advantage over his competition. IMHO it should be one strike and you are out, enter for fun if you like but never have the right to compete again.

He knowingly took the risk and has ruined his reputation and the faith people put in athlethes in general.

It's a sad day for any race organizer when a drug cheat turns up and wins against honest people. I feel very sorry for sportsworld and their race which has history.[/Q

if every aspect of life operated a one strike policy there wouldnt be any life. In my experience the people who demand the highest standards very seldom set them. Its great to preach from on high but you if you do you have to live there.