Chiropractor

duffman08

Hi Lads and Ladies,

Could people recommend a good chiropractor that they have been to, and found to be good.
In the Kildare, Carlow, dublin region.

Thanks

flywheel

Dr. Danny Schaill

http://fitzwilliamhealth.ie

Mhmm...weetabix

Brenda Bower is really good. Based in Drumcondra
http://www.backtohealth.ie

EileenG

Clive Dennis in Swords. 01-8403305.

Does the job, doesn't bring you back for extra sessions and can turn a breech baby.

duffman08

Reason i require one is, as i have posted on here before. i am having lower back problems.
And some Hamstring problems which i think it could be linked in some way.
I've been to physio's and they say my hamstrings are not tight, when i do tweak my hamstrings they are not serious tweaks like a grade 3 tear, there minor tears which is leading me to think that something is pulling on it from up higher rather than me running on tight hamstrings causing the problems.
As i have stated before when i run, it seems like i am bending over too far backwards as i run.
My glutes are not over tight either. Could it be that it could be coming from my back or pelvis and could a chiropractor help me with this?

Mhmm...weetabix

duffman08 wrote: »

Reason i require one is, as i have posted on here before. i am having lower back problems.
And some Hamstring problems which i think it could be linked in some way.
I've been to physio's and they say my hamstrings are not tight, when i do tweak my hamstrings they are not serious tweaks like a grade 3 tear, there minor tears which is leading me to think that something is pulling on it from up higher rather than me running on tight hamstrings causing the problems.
As i have stated before when i run, it seems like i am bending over too far backwards as i run.
My glutes are not over tight either. Could it be that it could be coming from my back or pelvis and could a chiropractor help me with this?

You're really asking a grey area there. It really depends on what Chiro you go to. Ideally the the theory that they follow is the alignment of the CNS through spinal mechanics and some are stringent on this, they wouldn't look at hip mechanics as a cause of problems just a symptom. Brenda Bowers whom I recommended has done alot of postgrad work broadening her treatment spectrum.
Ideally if you think you have a Pelvic imbalance you'd be better served going to see a decent Osteopath as it's more holistic approach (conventional osteopathy) to treatment where they look at the whole body & believe everything effects everything else. Conventional Osteopathy still has some classical Osteopathy which believed the pelvic alignment was the key to overall musculo-skeletal health so the pelvic girdle positioning is paramount in treating the patient.

I would edit that but my brain is fried. In short, try a reputable conventional osteopath if you think it's your pelvis. Alternatively if you know the Chiropractor you choose treats everything as opposed to just spinal mechanics then go for it

Trippie

EileenG wrote: »

Clive Dennis in Swords. 01-8403305.

Does the job, doesn't bring you back for extra sessions and can turn a breech baby.

He also had a clinic in Naas as far as im aware

duffman08

Reason i mentioned chiropractor was that they physio i have been seeing has treated me for locked Facet Joints in my back before, i just think it has to be all linked in someway.
as i have stated before i play Gealic Football at a reasonalbly high level, i'm 23 and i play midfield which requires a good level of fitness and stamina. So its nothing to do with my fitness levels or anyhting like that.
i'm just thinking of going to get another opinion from maybe a chiropractor or if someone could recommend someone else to tend to my problems as the physio i use is the club (chartered) physio and just seems to treat the problem have to get me back playing rather than getting to the bottom of whats causing the issue(s).

toggle

duffman08 wrote: »

Reason i require one is, as i have posted on here before. i am having lower back problems.
And some Hamstring problems which i think it could be linked in some way.
I've been to physio's and they say my hamstrings are not tight, when i do tweak my hamstrings they are not serious tweaks like a grade 3 tear, there minor tears which is leading me to think that something is pulling on it from up higher rather than me running on tight hamstrings causing the problems.
As i have stated before when i run, it seems like i am bending over too far backwards as i run.
My glutes are not over tight either. Could it be that it could be coming from my back or pelvis and could a chiropractor help me with this?

Find someone that does Active Release, google "active release"
They will be able to find and treat the underlying cause of your back pain and hamstring issues.

duffman08

is this speaking from experience toggle, or are you in this area of expertise

Mhmm...weetabix

toggle wrote: »

Find someone that does Active Release, google "active release"
They will be able to find and treat the underlying cause of your back pain and hamstring issues.

Active and passive release techniques are thought in Uk Osteopathy courses. Your putting all your eggs in 1 basket by going to some 1 who doesn't align skeletal structures & do soft tissue work.

duffman08

what would you recommend i do wheatabix does brenda treat other than spinal ect....

Mhmm...weetabix

Going by what you said earlier it does seem like you could have a rotated pelvis which is causing these problems. I myself go to a chiro Named Brenda Bowers but thats because she doesn't treat like a conventional Chiro, she's holistic (treats everything) I wouldn't go to another chiro because I don't know how they individually treat. IMO though, i'd find a reputeable conventional Osteopath in your area and go to them as they all are trained to treat holisticaly (it's the basic foundation of the principles).

The main people I'd be going to see would be:

Patrick Lane tel: 087 230 9808, he works in 2 clinics during the week. 1 in Malahide and the other is in Nutgrove shopping centre

Robert Marshall tel: 086 400 3089 again in Malahide Dublin

Victor Megannety Phone: +353 1 287 6468, Mobile: +353 87 8214837 in Greystones

The guys in the littlejohn clinic are also held in high esteem but I dont know them personally

I know a few more but I'd rate these guys highly

All these guys are listed below but use this website to search someone closer to your area if needs be
http://www.osteopathy.org.uk/find_osteo/osteopaths.php?searchtype=address&town=&pc=&osteo_country=RI&btn_search1.x=39&btn_search1.y=5

duffman08

is there anywhere i could go where both a chiropractor and osteopath work under the one building??
if not and i went to and osteopath and it was a job for a chiropractor or vice versa would they refer me or just take my cash and treat me anyways?
i obviously dont want that.

colly10

I went to a guy in Maynooth and found him to be excellent, theres only one guy there as far as I know (from Canada I think). My back was so bad that I couldn't play football, it was just getting worse and worse and then it was just too bad.
This guy worked on it for a few weeks and now it's perfect, hasn't troubled me in years.
Id highly recommend him. He also sorted out my dads back after someone crashed into him and he had years of back and neck pain till visiting him

Mhmm...weetabix

duffman08 wrote: »

is there anywhere i could go where both a chiropractor and osteopath work under the one building??
if not and i went to and osteopath and it was a job for a chiropractor or vice versa would they refer me or just take my cash and treat me anyways?
i obviously dont want that.

I cant think of anything a Chiropractor can do that a decent Osteopath cant. You don't tend to get them working together. Brenda use to have an Osteopath working for her at 1 stage but he left a few years back. I cant say anything about the cash thing apart from the everyone I've listed aren't that way inclined and are excellent. Not to say people I haven't listed and know are in the contrary to that.

flywheel

duffman08 wrote: »

is there anywhere i could go where both a chiropractor and osteopath work under the one building??
if not and i went to and osteopath and it was a job for a chiropractor or vice versa would they refer me or just take my cash and treat me anyways?
i obviously dont want that.

you could go for an assessment with a professional and find out what is wrong with you first... the place i mentioned has chiropractors, physical therapists, sports massage etc... you can decide after the assessment / report of findings what your next step can be...

duffman08

could you recommend a good osteopath then? readin in a previous thread, a fella had similar problems to mine, he went to an chiropractor to sort his back then an osteopath to sort his pelvis and he says he's had no problems since, would this be an option?

Mhmm...weetabix

duffman08 wrote: »

could you recommend a good osteopath then? readin in a previous thread, a fella had similar problems to mine, he went to an chiropractor to sort his back then an osteopath to sort his pelvis and he says he's had no problems since, would this be an option?

It's definitely an option a very expensive, time consuming and most likely unnecessary way to go about it.

duffman08

do you work in this field weetabix?
i think i'm going to try a chiropractor, i shall give him a ring tomoro to arrange an appointment and see what he says.i suppose one appointment/consultation wont hurt/break the bank or consume too much of my time.
Money wouldnt really be an issue if i could get to the bottom of the problems, i obviously dont want money going down the drain.

Mhmm...weetabix

duffman08 wrote: »

do you work in this field weetabix?
i think i'm going to try a chiropractor, i shall give him a ring tomoro to arrange an appointment and see what he says.i suppose one appointment/consultation wont hurt/break the bank or consume too much of my time.
Money wouldnt really be an issue if i could get to the bottom of the problems, i obviously dont want money going down the drain.

Unfortunately I don't Duffman, put 3 years of my life into studying Osteopathy but things happened, I dropped out and I haven't been in a position (or quite frankly the drive) to go back.
Aslong as the guy is good at what he does and is flexible in his treatment he should be able to get you sorted. Make sure he actually tells you what his diagnosis is so if you feel you want to change you can be advised on your next step. I know that's 1 trick the cowboys use, they wont give you an accurate diagnosis so they can keep bringing you back.

Ah yeah money/time is never the problem when it comes to health I just know from experience and am lucky to be in a position where I know individuals who can fix me up! Good luck with it anyway

toggle

Mhmm...weetabix wrote: »

Active and passive release techniques are thought in Uk Osteopathy courses. Your putting all your eggs in 1 basket by going to some 1 who doesn't align skeletal structures & do soft tissue work.

Active Release Techniques is a patented soft tissue technique that is taught in post graduate courses only. You'll find in the next 5-10 years that it will become a lot better known. AC Milan football club currently have a certified Active Release Provider on board. www.activerelease.com
Its myofascial release which is taught at undergraduate osteopathy, as far as I know there are no Osteopaths in the UK or Ireland that have taken training in Active Release.

Duffman: is this speaking from experience toggle, or are you in this area of expertise
Actually its both so I've been a patient and a health practitioner I had a Osgood schlatters disease (http://www.sportsinjuryclinic.net/cybertherapist/front/knee/osgood.htm) when I was in my teens and living in the states, and I tried everything to get some pain relief you name it I tried it. It wasn't till I went to the Chiropractor that I was able get help. I then was lucky enough to come across a Chiropractor in the US that did Active Release. It was the combination of the two that help me the most, in a couple of treatments all my pain was gone.

Mhmm...weetabix

toggle wrote: »

Active Release Techniques is a patented soft tissue technique that is taught in post graduate courses only. You'll find in the next 5-10 years that it will become a lot better known. AC Milan football club currently have a certified Active Release Provider on board. www.activerelease.com
Its myofascial release which is taught at undergraduate osteopathy, as far as I know there are no Osteopaths in the UK or Ireland that have taken training in Active Release.

Duffman: is this speaking from experience toggle, or are you in this area of expertise
Actually its both so I've been a patient and a health practitioner I had a Osgood schlatters disease (http://www.sportsinjuryclinic.net/cybertherapist/front/knee/osgood.htm) when I was in my teens and living in the states, and I tried everything to get some pain relief you name it I tried it. It wasn't till I went to the Chiropractor that I was able get help. I then was lucky enough to come across a Chiropractor in the US that did Active Release. It was the combination of the two that help me the most, in a couple of treatments all my pain was gone.

I actually just saw this reply now. Toggle, they mightve patented the name but try telling any Osteopath that's gone through the course since the 2000 registration (and probably before that)that they haven't learned & practice Active release techniques and you'll be laughed out of their office. I'm pretty sure the same goes for physical therapist's and physio's. Soft tissue work while actively moving limbs is nothing new. Out of interest what field do you work in?

Racing Flat

duffman08, you're putting a lot of faith into your belief that something in your back or pelvis is 'out of line'. This is rarely (if ever) the case I would say. Pelvic bones may sometimes appear out of line (on palpation or X-ray) but more often than not it's due to pelvic morphology - the fact that people have differnet shaped and sizes of pelvic bones on the 2 sides of their body.

Techniques aimed at 'realigning' malaligned spine/pelvis have also been criticised. Studies have shown that people who have a demonstrable 'alignment' problem on X-ray (I put it in commas because it is demonstarable by the person readin the X-ray, my opinion would be that it's more likely to be due to individual pelvic morphology assymetries) when they have treatment to 'realign' the pelvis, the pelvic bones are in the exact same position before and after! However, despite this, the person can still have relief of pain in response to the treatment - so the treatment probably had an effect at a neurophysiological level as opposed to realigning things correctly. Hope that makes sense.

If you look up www.backpaineurope.org you will see current European Guidelines for assessment and treatment of pelvic girdle pain, this states how there is no evidecne to support claims that malalignment of pelvic bones is a contributing factor to pain. That goes against the grain of what a lot of people believe (particularly lay people, and by some professionals).

My opinion would be that you either have a local hamstring problem - minor tears have led to scar tissue which are more likely to lead to further minor tears....possibly because the hamstrings are not able to cope with the high demands you place on them as a footballer - you may be fit elsewhere, but perhaps your hamstrings are not as fit as the rest of you if you get what I mean. Secondly, perhaps you have a motor control problem - the way you move your back may well lead to inappropriate stresses or forces going thorugh your hamstrings with subsequent minor injuries.

Best of luck anyhow, tbh finding someone good out there isn't the easiest...

Mhmm...weetabix

and by some professionals

I'd say by ALOT of professionals actually, considering Osteopathy (Definitely more so in classical but prevalent in mainstream) pelvic alignment is seen as a keystone to holistic well being. That's interesting, gonna have to have a look into it before I comment. From experience though I've seen pelvic realignment help with alot of musculoskeletal ailments so it's hard to say....

Racing Flat

Mhmm...weetabix wrote: »

That's interesting, gonna have to have a look into it before I comment. From experience though I've seen pelvic realignment help with alot of musculoskeletal ailments so it's hard to say....

As I said, it may well help with pain relief, but I wouldn't be too quick to attribute this to 'realignment'.

But if you do a 'realignment' technique to help a pain that is due to a 'bone that is out of line' and the pain goes away, you'll tend to attribute it to 'putting the bones back in line' as it will fit in with your beliefs, regardless of whether this actually happens or not.

Mhmm...weetabix

Racing Flat wrote: »

As I said, it may well help with pain relief, but I wouldn't be too quick to attribute this to 'realignment'.

But if you do a 'realignment' technique to help a pain that is due to a 'bone that is out of line' and the pain goes away, you'll tend to attribute it to 'putting the bones back in line' as it will fit in with your beliefs, regardless of whether this actually happens or not.

As I said, I'm not qualified to argue this so I'm not going to, but from what I'm reading your telling me that the alignment of the skeletal system doesn't have a direct effect on muscle attachements to the effected area and you CANT relieve this problem by using appropriate force to rectify this misalignment?

Racing Flat

Mhmm...weetabix wrote: »

As I said, I'm not qualified to argue this so I'm not going to, but from what I'm reading your telling me that the alignment of the skeletal system doesn't have a direct effect on muscle attachements to the effected area and you CANT relieve this problem by using appropriate force to rectify this misalignment?

I suppose what I'm saying is that the body doesn't get 'malaligned' at least not anywhere near as often as people think. i.e. the pelvis doesn't get rotated or raised on one side, a vertebra does not move out of place. Adjusting or manipulating joints, because it makes a clicking sound gives the impression that something is being put or snapped back into place, but this is not what explains the clicking sound.

I'm saying you can provide pain relief thorugh using appropriate force, but that the mechanism for that pain relief is not due to rectifying an alignment issue but rather due to a neurophysioogcial effect.

Mhmm...weetabix

Racing Flat wrote: »

I suppose what I'm saying is that the body doesn't get 'malaligned' at least not anywhere near as often as people think. i.e. the pelvis doesn't get rotated or raised on one side, a vertebra does not move out of place. Adjusting or manipulating joints, because it makes a clicking sound gives the impression that something is being put or snapped back into place, but this is not what explains the clicking sound.

I'm saying you can provide pain relief thorugh using appropriate force, but that the mechanism for that pain relief is not due to rectifying an alignment issue but rather due to a neurophysioogcial effect.

I dont know any professional that does claim it's anything to do with the clicking/cavitation sound, that's just gas been released from synovial fluid in the IVD's, it's a side effect of a HVT as opposed to part of the treatment! I've had vertebrae out of place put back in and have manipulated vertebrae myself both with immediate and long term pain relief so I cant agree with you at all on this. You also dont need to use HVT techniques to do this, you can use articulation or osilation techniques for this also which are alot less forceful.

This is an extreme example but what you're saying could be taken as for example that putting a dislocated shoulder back into alignment in the Glenoid labrum wont give pain relief? I'm pretty sure you're not suggesting that, so why cant it be taken down any misalignment in the body? I mean the body has neurovascular bundles almost everywhere, if they become impinged in the slightest i.e by an out of place carpal bone, how would moving this carpal bone back into place not relieve the symptom as your removing the cause?

I suppose what I'm saying is that the body doesn't get 'malaligned' at least not anywhere near as often as people think

Again, I dont have stats & figures on this, but any manipulative therapist worth their weight would argue this down to a tee. What field are you in out of interest? Your views sound very in line with "mainstream" medicine (this is not mocking I just don't know how else to put it)

Off to training so this is a bit rushed apologies for the sloppyness of it

Racing Flat

Mhmm...weetabix wrote: »

it's a side effect of a HVT as opposed to part of the treatment!

Agreed

Mhmm...weetabix wrote: »

I've had vertebrae out of place

Have you? How do you know? And what do you mean by out of place?

Mhmm...weetabix wrote: »

put back in

put back in where?

Mhmm...weetabix wrote: »

have manipulated vertebrae myself both with immediate and long term pain relief

Agreed - I've said in each of my posts that manipulation will provide pain relief. Just that this is not due to realignment.

Mhmm...weetabix wrote: »

You also dont need to use HVT techniques to do this, you can use articulation or osilation techniques for this also which are alot less forceful.

Agreed.

Mhmm...weetabix wrote: »

This is an extreme example but what you're saying could be taken as for example that putting a dislocated shoulder back into alignment in the Glenoid labrum wont give pain relief? I'm pretty sure you're not suggesting that, so why cant it be taken down any misalignment in the body?

i.e by an out of place carpal bone, how would moving this carpal bone back into place not relieve the symptom as your removing the cause?

Good examples there of dislocations where there is structural soft tissue damage - joint capsules or ligaments are torn so the joint dislocates, or bones are 'out of line'. However, do you think this happens in the lumbar spine/pelvis? The sacroiliac joint is incredibly stable. Such trauma would be needed to dislocate this (if possible) that the sacrum is far more likely to fracture first. Fair enough the pubic symphysis can 'slip' or move out of line due to trauma, and therefore could theoretically be put back in place via manipulation. Can lumbar spine facet joints dislocate? Possibly with large trauma, but I imagine this would not be very common - maybe just with bad car accidents or the like. Certainly facet joints or sacroiliac joints can be a source of pain for which manipulation will indeed provide pain relief. On that we agree. But the mechanism of that pain relief has nothing to do with realigning vertebrae or the pelvis in the vast vast majority of cases. Perhaps we have to agree to disagree on this.

Mhmm...weetabix wrote: »

Again, I dont have stats & figures on this,

Perhaps that's because there are no stats or figures for this because doislocations don't occur in this region? There are stats and figures to support the fact that there is no evidence that pelvic malalignment etc. exists (www.backpaineurope.com referred to above).

Mhmm...weetabix wrote: »

"mainstream" medicine

Don't know what you mean by this term. But I am a proponent of a peer-reviewed evidence based approach to any form of treatment. i.e. if there is a new treatment this should be subjected to randomised controlled clinical trial, and if this demonstrates that it is effective, then it may be advocated as a form of treatment as appropriate. As opposed to the 'Your man down the road had a bad back - he had manipulation/herbs/acupuncture/medicine (dlete as appropriate)and he's great now - I'm going to go for manipulation/herbs/acupuncture/medicine' - an extremely common, but very unscientific approach!

Mhmm...weetabix

Originally Posted by Mhmm...weetabix View Post
Again, I dont have stats & figures on this,
Perhaps that's because there are no stats or figures for this because doislocations don't occur in this region? There are stats and figures to support the fact that there is no evidence that pelvic malalignment etc. exists (www.backpaineurope.com referred to above).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mhmm...weetabix View Post
"mainstream" medicine
Don't know what you mean by this term. But I am a proponent of a peer-reviewed evidence based approach to any form of treatment. i.e. if there is a new treatment this should be subjected to randomised controlled clinical trial, and if this demonstrates that it is effective, then it may be advocated as a form of treatment as appropriate. As opposed to the 'Your man down the road had a bad back - he had manipulation/herbs/acupuncture/medicine (dlete as appropriate)and he's great now - I'm going to go for manipulation/herbs/acupuncture/medicine' - an extremely common, but very unscientific approach!

Yeah, this is the flaw in my arguement at this stage as you're right, the stats aren't there only the theory so it cant be backed up on paper and I cant argue my points ny further. I just go by what I know work for myself and I've seen work in my time working in clinics while I was in Uni.

Have you? How do you know? And what do you mean by out of place?

When I say out of place I mean out of alignment to respect of the neutral position of the spinal column. The spine as you well know has kyphotic and lordotic curves throughout the column. Cervical & lumbar spine are lordotic, the thoracic & sacral are kyphotic. So say you take thoracic spine the orientation of the vertebrae is in flexion with superior facet that are convex & face posteriorly, superiorly & laterally. The approximate angles ( measurements taken from Kumar & Clarke) of declination transversely is 60 degrees and coronaly is 20 degrees. If the facets become locked in extended state (which again I have no numbers) mobility of the spine ,fluid dynamics are both restricted. Attaching structures such as erector spinae and multifidus muscles get stuck in lesion after a period of time which causes inervation of the area to become compromised. (sorry I'm getting to into the theory again)
Basically yes, I have had it done, I just cant prove it to you so it's back to square 1. I have to concede that I cant back any of this up so what can I say?

Racing Flat

Mhmm...weetabix wrote: »

When I say out of place I mean out of alignment to respect of the neutral position of the spinal column. The spine as you well know has kyphotic and lordotic curves throughout the column. Cervical & lumbar spine are lordotic, the thoracic & sacral are kyphotic. So say you take thoracic spine the orientation of the vertebrae is in flexion with superior facet that are convex & face posteriorly, superiorly & laterally. The approximate angles ( measurements taken from Kumar & Clarke) of declination transversely is 60 degrees and coronaly is 20 degrees. If the facets become locked in extended state (which again I have no numbers) mobility of the spine ,fluid dynamics are both restricted. Attaching structures such as erector spinae and multifidus muscles get stuck in lesion after a period of time which causes inervation of the area to become compromised. (sorry I'm getting to into the theory again)
Basically yes, I have had it done, I just cant prove it to you so it's back to square 1. I have to concede that I cant back any of this up so what can I say?

Perhaps we just disagree on semantics...As you say the spine can become restricted or stiff and techniques can certainly be used to make them less stiff, but this is not the same as an out of line joint such as a shoulder dislocation.

You have some amount of knowledge for the level of a 3rd year student! - for whatever reason you didn't go on in the profession, you're a loss to the profession.