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Now they want to take away our minimum wage

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  • #62
    Red Sleeping Beauty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,443 ✭✭✭Red Sleeping Beauty


    Mickah wrote: »
    WE HAVE NO MONEY!
    .

    Ireland has plenty of money . As it happens, it's those few capitalists who control the majority of the wealth.


    Cut the dole by Euro 50 a week ?
    Mother of jaysis, I'm about to pass out here reading this nonsense


  • #63
    Hazys
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,510 ✭✭✭Hazys


    ScumLord wrote: »
    I know Irish manufacturing companies that moved their factory's to Poland but still charge the same amount here for the end product. It's greed plain and simple. You can't punish the average employee for the mistakes of management.

    So if you were in charge of setting the prices, you would charge a fair price?

    Obviously if they could of charged a cheaper price, that would have increased sales and increased profit, they would have.

    You can blame the Fat Cats all you like, it was still the average Irish person buying the product at the price they set. In the boom times we didnt care about finding the best value. We went to bars and restaurants not looking at the prices spending at will, the owners set the prices to maximise their profits as anybody would do. Now we want to blame them because we were so carefree with our money?


  • #64
    deleriumtremens
    Closed Accounts Posts: 491 ✭✭deleriumtremens


    alan dunne 27 wrote: »
    Ireland has plenty of money . As it happens, it's those few capitalists who control the majority of the wealth.


    Cut the dole by Euro 50 a week ?
    Mother of jaysis, I'm about to pass out here reading this nonsense

    Perhaps 50 is a bit much but do you genuinely think it that the suggestion of cutting the dole by any amount is "nonsense"? If a persons weekly income from working is barely above (or in some cases less than) the dole, of course they are going to go on the dole. This puts more pressure on the government to cut it..keeping 20% of the adults available for work in this country on 204 quid a week isnt going to be easy with feck all tax coming in.


  • #65
    ScumLord
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Hazys wrote: »
    So if you were in charge of setting the prices, you would charge a fair price?

    Obviously if they could of charged a cheaper price, that would have increased sales and increased profit, they would have.

    You can blame the Fat Cats all you like, it was still the average Irish person buying the product at the price they set. In the boom times we didnt care about finding the best value. We went to bars and restaurants not looking at the prices spending at will, the owners set the prices to maximise their profits as anybody would do. Now we want to blame them because we were so carefree with our money?
    Lol, true. I suppose it is wrong to blame a business for being business like. They do need to be put on a leash though.


  • #66
    astrofool
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,480 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    spank_inferno wrote: »
    I fixed your post for you.
    Ireland can become competitive by decreasing the maximum pay.
    The head of Bank of Ireland was paid nearly €4 million euro in 2006.
    Taking as an approximation that amounts to the yearly wage costs of 220, thats right 220 minimum wage workers.

    Competitiveness! does this country know the meaning of the word?!

    That is stupid, if that money doesn't go on wages, it gets taxed on profit at the corporation tax rate, which is lower than the top rate of tax.

    The guy at the top is not what determines how competitive we are, but what the guy at the bottom earns. Social welfare should be cut by 10%, and min wage should be dropped by 50c or so, and then frozen for X number of years (giving businesses a guarantee that their costs won't spiral). We can then begin trying to attract companies into the country. If we do this right, we can increase competition and lower the cost of living at the same time.


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  • #67
    deadhead13
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,034 ✭✭✭deadhead13


    realcam wrote: »
    Well, like judge Judy would say 'cop on, you're not meant to'. :D
    Minimum wage jobs aren't exactly the foundation for a happy family life. If you want a house and kids and all that get a better job. I wouldn't dream of starting a family on a minimum wage.

    Don't be so smug. Its not an option for some. Are you seriously suggesting that the low paid shouldn't have children.


  • #68
    Gummy Panda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,919 ✭✭✭✭Gummy Panda


    I can understand the need to lower wage costs but i just find this funny after most of our TDs have refused to take a pay cut and haven't been forced to.


  • #69
    engrish?
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 911 ✭✭✭engrish?


    Jesus, this forum has turned into a monty python sketch. Live with it lads, we all need to take a cut. Stop looking for people to blame and start thinking how you can help to fix it. Most of us are going through tough times, our parents did it, their parents did it, even ug and ugella the cave couple had bad times when the wooley mamoth died out and left them little to eat.

    Focus on the solution, not the problem or how it happened.


  • #70
    deadhead13
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,034 ✭✭✭deadhead13


    engrish? wrote: »

    Focus on the solution, not the problem or how it happened.

    I have complete lack of trust in the people dreaming up with these "solutions"


  • #71
    m5ex9oqjawdg2i
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,220 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    realcam wrote: »
    Well, like judge Judy would say 'cop on, you're not meant to'. :D
    Minimum wage jobs aren't exactly the foundation for a happy family life. If you want a house and kids and all that get a better job. I wouldn't dream of starting a family on a minimum wage.

    So you believe that all people on minimum wage were on minimum wage all their lives, they shouldn't be allowed have families or have the same rights as those on higher salaries? Are you saying that all families in a minimum wage household are planned? They put themselves in this situation on purpose?

    People were made redundant, some are out of college and cannot move on from their college jobs.
    alan dunne 27 wrote: »
    Sorry, it was sarcasm :)
    Someone on the dole or going between min wage jobs isn't going to say "Oh, the country needs me to take a hit. Grand so, I'll give up what little money I get per week to help those cowboys who cause the mess get back to their bonuses"

    Oh I know that, but I meant that people on minimum wage or social welfare know what the deal is, they know how hard it is, while people on higher wages don't have a clue, so it is easy for them to say. Get me?
    deleriumtremens wrote: »
    Perhaps 50 is a bit much but do you genuinely think it that the suggestion of cutting the dole by any amount is "nonsense"? If a persons weekly income from working is barely above (or in some cases less than) the dole, of course they are going to go on the dole. This puts more pressure on the government to cut it..keeping 20% of the adults available for work in this country on 204 quid a week isnt going to be easy with feck all tax coming in.

    Yes it is complete nonsence, try living on 200 euro a week, it's not easy. Take my word for it. Every cent you spend you worry about. Unemployment will not reach 20%, it will peak at about 12% - 13%. I agree that if the wage is cut, then more people are likely to opt for the dole, but signing on is not as easy as it was 6 months or a year ago. You know?

    It's not a matter of "minimum wage V social welfare" it's about people surviving on pittence. If we recieved a cut in either, we would like to see some cuts in prices in the retail sector. Somebody living on their own, in shared house for 80 euro a week could just about afford it. Just about. This takes into account that the person in question only uses neccesities. Lives on the very basics. I dunno, people are targeting the wrong sector...


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  • #72
    engrish?
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 911 ✭✭✭engrish?


    deadhead13 wrote: »
    I have complete lack of trust in the people dreaming up with these "solutions"


    If you have a better solution, present it, otherwise, put your faith and confidence in those that do. The minute you start thinking your going to fail, you have already failed.


    I realise I sound like a fortune cookie but I sincerely believe in what I am saying.


  • #73
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    You can't reduce the cost of living without reducing the minimum wage.

    It determines everything. You need a low minimum wage and other salaries to come down proportionately to decrease the cost of living. Otherwise companies will continue charging what they charge and the people that can pay it will (ie. the people not affected).

    This applies to everyone, public, private and misc.


  • #74
    Red Sleeping Beauty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,443 ✭✭✭Red Sleeping Beauty


    Alec High Soprano wrote: »
    Oh I know that, but I meant that people on minimum wage or social welfare know what the deal is, they know how hard it is, while people on higher wages don't have a clue, so it is easy for them to say. Get me?

    Indeed :)

    We could , if we wanted to , stretch the generailisations to say that ...
    These "scum" on the dole and jumping between min wage jobs don't understand how politics,economy, Ireland, the World works and therefore no decision that's made concerns them as they're just sheep.


  • #75
    Red Sleeping Beauty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,443 ✭✭✭Red Sleeping Beauty


    engrish? wrote: »
    If you have a better solution, present it, otherwise, put your faith and confidence in those that do. The minute you start thinking your going to fail, you have already failed.


    I realise I sound like a fortune cookie but I sincerely believe in what I am saying.

    If you stand up like a nail, then you will be knocked down.


  • #76
    m5ex9oqjawdg2i
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,220 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    thebman wrote: »
    You can't reduce the cost of living without reducing the minimum wage.

    It determines everything. You need a low minimum wage and other salaries to come down proportionately to decrease the cost of living. Otherwise companies will continue charging what they charge and the people that can pay it will (ie. the people not affected).

    This applies to everyone, public, private and misc.

    Yes I know this, thing is, if we take from the already poor, they couldn't afford the products in the first place, why would this change anything? Ideally it would, but unfortunately we avoid the rich, they can still afford it, they will still buy it.

    Like I keep saying, we are not targetting the right people.


  • #77
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    Alec High Soprano wrote: »
    Yes I know this, thing is, if we take from the already poor, they couldn't afford the products in the first place, why would this change anything? Ideally it would, but unfortunately we avoid the rich, they can still afford it, they will still buy it.

    Like I keep saying, we are not targetting the right people.

    It depends on who the biggest group is. That is who we should target and also the rich as it'll make it easier for everyone else to take the hit.

    Most people spend what they earn or close to it so when you reduce anyones wage they will feel it.

    I agree that minimum wage should be left reduced later on. Ideally you should reduce everyone at once I suppose but not by doing something like tax cuts. You want to reduce the amount paid to them not take some of it off them as employers will still have to pay for the increased taxes which they can't afford right now.


  • #78
    deadhead13
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,034 ✭✭✭deadhead13


    engrish? wrote: »
    If you have a better solution, present it, otherwise, put your faith and confidence in those that do. The minute you start thinking your going to fail, you have already failed.


    I realise I sound like a fortune cookie but I sincerely believe in what I am saying.

    By "the people dreaming up the solutions" I meant FF. Putting faith and confidence in them would be stretching it a bit.


  • #79
    IvySlayer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,190 ✭✭✭✭IvySlayer


    alan dunne 27 wrote: »
    All four of those chains that you mentioned need to be taken to task with regards their Anti-Union policy. They're scum, utter scum in my absolutely final and humble opinion.

    Less Trade Unions the better imo.

    I work minimum wage, seriously CANNOT afford it to be reduced. I've already had my pay cut last year.


  • #80
    Nehaxak
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,717 ✭✭✭Nehaxak


    engrish? wrote: »
    If you have a better solution, present it, otherwise, put your faith and confidence in those that do. The minute you start thinking your going to fail, you have already failed.


    I realise I sound like a fortune cookie but I sincerely believe in what I am saying.

    I have one..

    1) Disband IBEC, they're nothing more than a lobbyist/PR spin group based loosley on legalised slavery and the worst aspects of capitalist society.
    2) Raise the minimum wage by €1
    3) Raise the sentence to minimum 10 years prison for employers who break the minimum wages law.
    4) General election
    5) Stop supporting and giving loans to shít businesses who abuse staff and use them as nothing more than slave labour.
    6) Wage cut of 30% for all government ministers.
    7) Stop the use of consultants in government departments, the HSE and generally any public service. You're fulltime or you can fck off, stop being greedy raping money from the system.
    8) Give retailers and distributors until March 2009 to drop their prices or force them too.
    9) Legislate against nepotism (sic?) in government (the use of family or friends as staff members).
    10) Instigate compulsory military service on a staggered basis (depending on family circumstances) for anyone between the ages of 18 and 25 who is either long-term unemployed or not in school/college. For example, those with kids be based near enough to their local communities while serving their military service while those living at home with their mammies can piss off overseas on peacekeeping duties once properly trained.


  • #81
    Red Sleeping Beauty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,443 ✭✭✭Red Sleeping Beauty


    IvySlayer wrote: »
    Less Trade Unions the better imo.

    I work minimum wage, seriously CANNOT afford it to be reduced. I've already had my pay cut last year.


    You're on minimum wage and you've had a pay cut and you don't want another one ... oh, you are, and I'm going out on a limb here, you are anti-union?

    Man, this country really really fuck with my head. Some people have missed the (last) proletariat boat.
    No workers of the world unite and take over from anyone no ?


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  • #82
    Red Sleeping Beauty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,443 ✭✭✭Red Sleeping Beauty


    Nehaxak wrote: »
    I have one..

    1) Disband IBEC, they're nothing more than a lobbyist/PR spin group based loosley on legalised slavery and the worst aspects of capitalist society.
    2) Raise the minimum wage by €1
    3) Raise the sentence to minimum 10 years prison for employers who break the minimum wages law.
    4) General election
    5) Stop supporting and giving loans to shít businesses who abuse staff and use them as nothing more than slave labour.
    6) Wage cut of 30% for all government ministers.
    7) Stop the use of consultants in government departments, the HSE and generally any public service. You're fulltime or you can fck off, stop being greedy raping money from the system.
    8) Give retailers and distributors until March 2009 to drop their prices or force them too.
    9) Legislate against nepotism (sic?) in government (the use of family or friends as staff members).
    10) Instigate compulsory military service on a staggered basis (depending on family circumstances) for anyone between the ages of 18 and 25 who is either long-term unemployed or not in school/college. For example, those with kids be based near enough to their local communities while serving their military service while those living at home with their mammies can piss off overseas on peacekeeping duties once properly trained.

    I was in total agreement you until your last point.
    Avatar says it all I suppose...


  • #83
    Nehaxak
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,717 ✭✭✭Nehaxak


    alan dunne 27 wrote: »
    I was in total agreement you until your last point.
    Avatar says it all I suppose...

    Ah Ché, such a rebel. He's so random...
    Can't have an uprising without the population being properly trained in advance.


  • #84
    IvySlayer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,190 ✭✭✭✭IvySlayer


    alan dunne 27 wrote: »
    You're on minimum wage and you've had a pay cut and you don't want another one ... oh, you are, and I'm going out on a limb here, you are anti-union?

    Man, this country really really fuck with my head. Some people have missed the (last) proletariat boat.
    No workers of the world unite and take over from anyone no ?

    I am anti-most-unions. Yes. Most of them are greedy bastards. Look at Dublin Bus. And the unions are partly at fault for the public service we cannot afford. Well done them. But this is going slightly off topic tbh.

    The minimum wage will not be cut. This is a Hawarden Kite, leaking something to see the publics reaction.


  • #85
    Red Sleeping Beauty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,443 ✭✭✭Red Sleeping Beauty


    I don't know man, there's other faces you could have there. Che's just a picture on a tshirt now. I don't think his face/image/name has that much power really.


  • #86
    Nehaxak
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,717 ✭✭✭Nehaxak


    alan dunne 27 wrote: »
    I don't know man, there's other faces you could have there. Che's just a picture on a tshirt now. I don't think his face/image/name has that much power really.

    Well, my true hero is Chavez really, must search out a decent pic of him...


  • #87
    Red Sleeping Beauty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,443 ✭✭✭Red Sleeping Beauty


    IvySlayer wrote: »
    The minimum wage will not be cut. This is a Hawarden Kite,.

    I thought that was official FF policy ? :pac:
    IvySlayer wrote: »

    leaking something to see the publics reaction.
    All the world over I will back the Masses against the Classes


  • #88
    Boskowski
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,361 ✭✭✭Boskowski


    Alec High Soprano wrote: »
    So you believe that all people on minimum wage were on minimum wage all their lives, they shouldn't be allowed have families or have the same rights as those on higher salaries? Are you saying that all families in a minimum wage household are planned? They put themselves in this situation on purpose?

    No I'm not. Fair enough. I dont have an answer to that.
    But since in most businesses the wage bill is the biggest cost factor Ireland has become uncompetitive with regards to manufacturing and other jobs. And since that has increased the cost of living now there seems no return. But something's got to be done. And if it is reducing the minimum wage then one would have to reduce the dole too.


  • #89
    Hazys
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,510 ✭✭✭Hazys


    Nehaxak wrote: »
    8) Give retailers and distributors until March 2009 to drop their prices or force them too.

    lol


  • #90
    nobodythere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,349 ✭✭✭nobodythere


    Not a bad idea if they take other measures to bring prices down around the country. But knowing our government, they won't.


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  • #91
    banshee_bones
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,160 ✭✭✭✭banshee_bones


    Smart Bug wrote: »
    Exactly.

    Our high minimum wage has undeniably led to an increase in our cost of living. However, lowering the minimum wage alone will not rejuvinate our economy or even halt it's decline. Action needs to be taken on businesses who charge exorbitant prices for their goods and services. I think the Competition Authority recently stated that it would look into capping prices in a number of sectors (groceries, clothes)?



    +1

    price of basic food and services in this country is shocking.

    and we dont even question these exorbent prices , we just roll over and take it like the chumps that we are. its a JOKE.


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