Now they want to take away our minimum wage

10-02-2009 4:45pm

RasTa wrote: »

It is time for the dole que to take a 10% cut. Although I do feel sorry for the people who have a mortgage who are now on it

people who have mortgages are the people who've credits built up and are on the other type of dole..

the bog standard dole for wasters should be dropped by 20-30 euro at least.

Boskowski · 10-02-2009 4:45pm

Alec High Soprano wrote: »

200 euro is not a lot of money to live off. Bad idea taking a cut there.

And why should it be? You're getting it for doing nothing after all.

S.I.R · 10-02-2009 4:48pm

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/business/2009/0210/nera.html

One of these Fianna Fail wallys has more or less just suggested that the minimum wage be reduced. Newstalk has ran with the story and they're lovin it - they had one of these bloody "experts" on and was saying how even those getting the most paltry pitiful (minimum) wage should be taking a hit.
They also had some knob (the filter would've replaced the word I'd like to use with ****) from the Green sub Fianna Fail party on and she was hmming and ahhing her way through and just repeating the same political drivel/rhetoric we've heard for too long.

this is why we need someone exciting i power... like irelands hottest man in ireland... Baz from Rte....

if we're gonna die poor, might aswell do it lookin stylish Loike....

deadhead13 · 10-02-2009 4:51pm

realcam wrote: »

And why should it be? You're getting it for doing nothing after all.

No. You pay tax all your working life. When you are laid off you entitled to benifits. It is not for nothing.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 10-02-2009 4:52pm

realcam wrote: »

And why should it be? You're getting it for doing nothing after all.

I paid my dues, I have every right to be on social welfare. I sincerely hope you get a taste of it soon. It might wake you up.

It's a damn weak argument you have there...

ManFromAtlantis · 10-02-2009 4:52pm

min wage is too high. how can we be competitive.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 10-02-2009 4:58pm

ManFromAtlantis wrote: »

min wage is too high. how can we be competitive.

Could you sustain a family, provide shelter, food and pay the bills, pay for the costs of education (free my arse), clothes and entertainment for 312 a week? Oh and whatever deductions out of that too... Wouldn't think so.

I would say most that say it should be cut are living at home with their parents or a partner, sponging of someone somewhere, don't actually know what it's like to live on such little money and still call it "life". Probably have good paying jobs, or are too young to understand. Probably never had money worries, probably don't have a clue...

traffic_cone · 10-02-2009 5:00pm

fukcing government. enough said!

Red Sleeping Beauty · 10-02-2009 5:00pm

ManFromAtlantis wrote: »

min wage is too high. how can we be competitive.

Thank you for your excellent addition to this ongoing discussion

Alec High Soprano wrote: »

I would say most that say it should be cut are living at home with their parents or a partner, sponging of someone somewhere, don't actually know what it's like to live on such little money and still call it "life". Probably have good paying jobs, or are too young to understand. Probably never had money worries, probably don't have a clue...

Here here. You're not going to find anyone on the scratcher saying "way hey lets cut that pesky minimum wage , it's draggin our country into the graveyard" :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

deleriumtremens · 10-02-2009 5:03pm

ManFromAtlantis wrote: »

min wage is too high. how can we be competitive.

I agree with this. Understandably a bitter pill to swallow, (I myself am on the dole), would anyone here disagree that cutting the minimum wage by a bit and also decreasing the dole to maybe 190 a week in line with this, would help the economy more than not doing it? Seriously wage costs in this country are still at the unnaturally high levels reached as a result of the unnatural growth in the boom years, surely its time for wage cost to fall a bit.

ManFromAtlantis · 10-02-2009 5:04pm

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

Thank you for your excellent addition to this ongoing discussion

ongoing discussion? thought it was open and shut with my excellent addition.

Red Sleeping Beauty · 10-02-2009 5:05pm

deleriumtremens wrote: »

I agree with this. Understandably a bitter pill to swallow, (I myself am on the dole), would anyone here disagree that cutting the minimum wage by a bit and also decreasing the dole to maybe 190 a week in line with this, would help the economy more than not doing it? Seriously wage costs in this country are still at the unnaturally high levels reached as a result of the unnatural growth in the boom years, surely its time for wage cost to fall a bit.

How much money are you going to save on a tener a week from the dole ? Enough to plug this €20Bn gap ?

this thread's about the minimum wage btw.

spank_inferno · 10-02-2009 5:10pm

ManFromAtlantis wrote: »

min max wage is too high. how can we be competitive.

I fixed your post for you.
Ireland can become competitive by decreasing the maximum pay.
The head of Bank of Ireland was paid nearly €4 million euro in 2006.
Taking as an approximation that amounts to the yearly wage costs of 220, thats right 220 minimum wage workers.

Competitiveness! does this country know the meaning of the word?!

Competitiveness can be helped in other ways:
EG: Government in a popularity stunt do away with domestic rates
Local authorities have to get the money from somewhere so raise the rates for local businesses.

EG 2 Government in a popluarity stunt agree to benchmarking.
Local authorities have to pick up the tab so levy more charges on local businesses. Add this to unrealistic rents on most shop premises and I can see any reduction in minimum wage being used by employers to protect existing margins rather than incentivising employment.

A better way to incentivise employment would be to waive Employer PRSI contributions for the first 2 years of creating a new job

deleriumtremens · 10-02-2009 5:14pm

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

How much money are you going to save on a tener a week from the dole ? Enough to plug this €20Bn gap ?

this thread's about the minimum wage btw.

Not accounting for lost tax revenues (eg vat from the items the person would have bought with the extra 14.30 euro)....this year the government would save (taking 360000 people to be a likely average figure for numbers unemployed this year)......(360000 x 14.30 x 53) = 272.8 million euro taking the christmas bonus into account.

Sorry, when I did the sum on my calculator I thought it read 2.728 billion euro!! And here was i wondering why the government didnt just do that!

ScumLord · 10-02-2009 5:15pm

deleriumtremens wrote: »

I agree with this. Understandably a bitter pill to swallow, (I myself am on the dole), would anyone here disagree that cutting the minimum wage by a bit and also decreasing the dole to maybe 190 a week in line with this, would help the economy more than not doing it? .

It wouldn't help in the slightest. Do you think the likes of Dell are going to turn around and come back because the minimum wage (did Dell ever pay minimum?) went down? No, because we'd have to put it down to a quarter of what it is currently to compete with other countries in manufacturing.

rocally · 10-02-2009 5:15pm

Our min wage is too high , In the last number of years it has increased continually - it has made our labour costs for low skilled jobs very high and has forced hotels, manufacturing facilities and other such areas close down

I agree with the cost of living being high here and i can understand both sides but I have seen first hand how companies haven’t been able to continue operating because of the minimum wage increases. Companies have to budget and if you have a set amount for wages and the minimum wage jumps for €7 to €8.65 in 3 years then that 8.65 has to divide into the same budget - result - people lose jobs.

kraggy · 10-02-2009 5:19pm

Regarding the dole, I think those who are on it the longest should have it decreased by 10-15%.

They're obviously the ones who have been taking the piss for years as there was ample opportunity to find employment during the good times.

They've been sitting on their arses for who knows how long at the expense of me and you.

You can't really cut the dole for those who have been signing on for just the last year as they are a) more likely to be genuine and b) more likely to have mortgages than those on the dole for more than 2 years.

Too many scumbags have been enjoying free money for too long now. Time for them to start to feel a pinch at last.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 10-02-2009 5:19pm

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

Here here. You're not going to find anyone on the scratcher saying "way hey lets cut that pesky minimum wage , it's draggin our country into the graveyard" :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Excuse my ignorance, but could you explain this a little clearer please?

spank_inferno wrote: »

I fixed your post for you.
Ireland can become competitive by decreasing the maximum pay.
The head of Bank of Ireland was paid nearly €4 million euro in 2006.
Taking as an approximation that amounts to the yearly employment of 220, thats right 220 minimum wage workers.

Competitiveness! does this country know the meaning of the word?!

Exactly...

While I think that people in high positions deserve a good wage, as they worked very hard for that position, I don't believe it should be such a wage that working one year will make enough money to last you the rest of your life. 4 million in one year is just outrageous. It's a complete joke. It's a mockery of the average people of Ireland. We get punished while the people that put us here in the first place reap the rewards. They are untouchable.

If I knew what to do, where to go, who to talk to to make a change I would. We need to remove these rogues from these highly responsible positions and give it to someone who cares more for the state of our country than their own salaries... I am just fed up hearing how they live a life of luxery, going unpunished while we live in desperation.

Mickah · 10-02-2009 5:20pm

We, Ireland as a country, cannot afford to pay our bills. It's a simple balance sheet.

Blaming all the "fat cats" (bankers/property developers/the government) and complaining about cuts in income (no matter what the source) will get us nowhere. WE HAVE NO MONEY!

We have to reduce our costs and we all have to play a part.

Reducing peoples income will bring down the high cost of living. It's already happening in the private sector. It's going to happen in the public sector (I have no time for them striking, play your part). Reductions in social welfare and the Dol are a forgone conclusion.

As is the minimum wage. It's too high. We have to get competitive.

I do think there should be a reasonable levy on people earning over a certain amount a year. Nothing excessive, maybe 2/3%. I do not know how much money that'll generate, but when compared to most they have more to spare.

ScumLord · 10-02-2009 5:21pm

rocally wrote: »

Our min wage is too high , In the last number of years it has increased continually - it has made our labour costs for low skilled jobs very high and has forced hotels, manufacturing facilities and other such areas close down

I know Irish manufacturing companies that moved their factory's to Poland but still charge the same amount here for the end product. It's greed plain and simple. You can't punish the average employee for the mistakes of management.

ManFromAtlantis · 10-02-2009 5:21pm

i fixed your post for you .

spank_inferno wrote: »

Ireland can become competitive by increasing the maximum pay.
The head of Bank of Ireland was paid nearly €4 million euro in 2006 and fair play to him - he employs loads of people .

Competitiveness! does this country now knows the meaning of the word?!

.

traffic_cone · 10-02-2009 5:23pm

hmmm

Boskowski · 10-02-2009 5:24pm

Alec High Soprano wrote: »

Could you sustain a family, provide shelter, food and pay the bills, pay for the costs of education (free my arse), clothes and entertainment for 312 a week?

Well, like judge Judy would say 'cop on, you're not meant to'.

Minimum wage jobs aren't exactly the foundation for a happy family life. If you want a house and kids and all that get a better job. I wouldn't dream of starting a family on a minimum wage.

Hazys · 10-02-2009 5:24pm

spank_inferno wrote: »

I fixed your post for you.
Ireland can become competitive by decreasing the maximum pay.
The head of Bank of Ireland was paid nearly €4 million euro in 2006.
Taking as an approximation that amounts to the yearly employment of 220, thats right 220 minimum wage workers.

Competitiveness! does this country know the meaning of the word?!

So communism instead it is then :rolleyes:

We are in difficult times, drastic measures have to be taken. It is unfair to cut minimum wage as the people on it didnt cause the recession, but do you want to do the fair thing and watch the country go down the toilet?

Cutting minimum wage seems like a good idea right now especially when we have the highest minimum wage in Europe (Luxembourg doesnt really count as a sample set), do we have the highest standard of living in Europe? Probably not, near the top tho.

Obviously this tough decision shouldn't be the only tough decision that has to be made over the next year or two.

rocally · 10-02-2009 5:24pm

I know Irish manufacturing companies that moved their factory's to Poland but still charge the same amount here for the end product. It's greed plain and simple. You can't punish the average employee for the mistakes of management.

No it's business plain and simple ,

Red Sleeping Beauty · 10-02-2009 5:25pm

kraggy wrote: »

Regarding the dole, I think those who are on it the longest should have it decreased by 10-15%.

They're obviously the ones who have been taking the piss for years as there was ample opportunity to find employment during the good times.
.

No they're not obviously the ones taking the piss. They're the people for whom stable employment has always been a rare thing .

kraggy wrote: »

Too many scumbags have been enjoying free money for too long now. Time for them to start to feel a pinch at last.

You're right, too many scumbags enjoying free money for too long. At least we agree on this

Alec High Soprano wrote: »

Excuse my ignorance, but could you explain this a little clearer please?

Sorry, it was sarcasm

Someone on the dole or going between min wage jobs isn't going to say "Oh, the country needs me to take a hit. Grand so, I'll give up what little money I get per week to help those cowboys who cause the mess get back to their bonuses"

Boskowski · 10-02-2009 5:25pm

deleriumtremens wrote: »

I agree with this. Understandably a bitter pill to swallow, (I myself am on the dole), would anyone here disagree that cutting the minimum wage by a bit and also decreasing the dole to maybe 190 a week in line with this, would help the economy more than not doing it? Seriously wage costs in this country are still at the unnaturally high levels reached as a result of the unnatural growth in the boom years, surely its time for wage cost to fall a bit.

Cut the minimum wage by 1 Euro to 1.50 and the dole by 25 a week.

Edited: Had 'dole by 50 a week ' there first, bit over the top maybe:D

Dont be at yourself · 10-02-2009 5:27pm

Nah lads, we don't need to cut the minimum wage, lower the dole, cut public spending or anything.

The solution is clear. We just need to get those few hundred greedy politicians to take a pay cut. That'll easily cover our 55 million euro-a-day overdraft!

Anyway, back to reality...

themadchef · 10-02-2009 5:29pm

Dropping the Min wage without bringing the dole into line will cause more people to go on the dole.

I know of two families, both with kids who were laid off recently and both are only €30 a week worse off on the dole. Why would they go back to working a 40 week in the wind and rain for €30... that's how people see it.

While they were working they were not entitled to the medical card..but now they are.

I'd hate to be on the dole, i feel sorry for the genuine hard working people of this country who find them selves in this position. Jobs will become available at much lower rates than previously paid. People have to realise a job is a job is a job... until things improve, take what you can. But if you get practically the same amount of money on the dole who can blame people for not wanting to work? The dole simply must be de incentivised when the jobs are there.

Reducing the minimum wage is not going to solve the problem. Employers who survived with little staff are not going to hire more just because their wage bill has fallen 10% ...they are going to use it to maybe stay in business, and maybe pay the electricity bill which seems to be growing by the month.

Molly30 · 10-02-2009 5:31pm

kraggy wrote: »

Regarding the dole, I think those who are on it the longest should have it decreased by 10-15%.

They're obviously the ones who have been taking the piss for years as there was ample opportunity to find employment during the good times.

They've been sitting on their arses for who knows how long at the expense of me and you.

You can't really cut the dole for those who have been signing on for just the last year as they are a) more likely to be genuine and b) more likely to have mortgages than those on the dole for more than 2 years.

Too many scumbags have been enjoying free money for too long now. Time for them to start to feel a pinch at last.

+1
there are people I know that are on the dole for yrs and have no intention of getting a job cos they are getting 200 a week for doing nothing, plus most of the rent paid plus a medical card and god knows what else! Apparently it wouldn't be worth their while working....but they do a day here and a day there on the QT to supplement their dole! Questions need to be asked of people that spend the entire celtic tiger on the dole....as there was plenty of work around! If they don;t address this and reduce the min wage, it won;t be worth people giving up all the things they get on the dole to go out and work!

Now they want to take away our minimum wage

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