Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Is the dole too generous?

Options
135678

Comments

  • Options
    #62
    RiverWilde
    Closed Accounts Posts: 419 ✭✭RiverWilde


    The begruding attitude displayed on here towards people unlucky enough to be on the dole is quite surprising.

    If you have a job why the hell would you begrudge someone else a hand up by the state?

    It seems that some people on here would rather people wound up living in a ghetto with their children in care and probably scarred for life.

    Which is better - help someone who has lost a job find a new skill, career path, job etc and survive the economic loss and ultimately benefit society in the long term or allow market forces to crucify them and their families?

    It is the states duty to my mind to protect the vulnerable in society. That's what it's there for otherwise where is the rationale for the state in the first place?

    Riv


  • Options
    #63
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    hobochris wrote: »
    The dole should be at a level where people on it can just about live. If they want more money then they should get a job.

    Where? I'd love a new job, currently looking. Have a job but will have to work about 12 hours a day and get paid 9-5 to keep it for little more than minimum wage.
    Serenity Now! wrote: »
    Why not review the other parts of the Social Welfare benefit system instead?
    For instance, why does a double-earning couple in the 41% (+1% levy of course) tax bracket receive child benefit per child? Why should people already earning well qualify, without even a means test, for a benefit when they already have money to raise those children?

    How many actually claim it that are in that bracket? Would it be worth reforming?
    Serenity Now! wrote: »
    Example:
    Married professional Couple.
    He earns €45,000 gross pa.
    She earns €40,000 gross pa.

    Two kids (5 and 7yrs old). One of them in private schooling.
    4-Bed House.
    Two cars (08 and 06 reg).
    Two vacation trips pa. One abroad. One in Ireland.

    You think they should receive a welfare payment every month?

    No but are they actually claiming it?

    How much is rent supplement? Is it depending on how much rent you pay or whats the story? I never looked into it.


  • Options
    #64
    turgon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭turgon


    oh well , okay wrote: »
    why not tweak the system so they're found out .

    In what way though?
    RiverWilde wrote: »
    The begruding attitude displayed on here towards people unlucky enough to be on the dole is quite surprising.

    To be honest Riv, Ive been unemployed for the last 13 weeks due to an injury, and Im pretty sure I could have walked into the dole office and got money if I wanted. But I didnt because I live at home and I dont need it that much. But if it was means tested and they were like here take 20 euro to give to your parents for keeping you up id be cool. But I wasnt going to milk 200 euro when I didnt need it.

    Unemployment benefit is great, and I hope there wont be a time when ill really need it. Im just saying that it needs to be rationalized and means tested.


  • Options
    #65
    oh well , okay
    Registered Users Posts: 93 ✭✭oh well , okay


    So your using the money from you unemployment benefit to drive to your employment

    Try re-reading the sentence I think you'll find there's an if in it .Plus I've stated several times that I'm in full employment I'm only talking hypotheticals ;although my expenses would be real .


  • Options
    #66
    turgon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭turgon


    oh well , okay wrote: »
    Try re-reading the sentence I think you'll find there's an if in it .Plus I've stated several times that I'm in full employment I'm only talking hypotheticals ;although my expenses would be real .

    Sorry :)


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #67
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Options
    #68
    CamperMan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,835 ✭✭✭CamperMan


    Irlbo wrote: »
    The answer is no,try and live on it for a week

    I did try it a few years ago... we were rolling in it... we got dole money, rent paid for, medical cards.... and we were able to save money...., Yes... the dole is too generous and should be cut by 50%.

    Before you start moaning, you really should try and live off the dole in the UK... now that is tough!


  • Options
    #69
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    CamperMan wrote: »
    I did try it a few years ago... we were rolling in it... we got dole money, rent paid for, medical cards.... and we were able to save money...., Yes... the dole is too generous and should be cut by 50%.

    Before you start moaning, you really should try and live off the dole in the UK... now that is tough!

    Sure who knows if things get any worse or prices go any higher here we may all be on the dole and then we can all see how we get on. I believe in the dole and when it comes to looking after children when a person is out of work there is not enough money for food,clothes,bills, etc, and the dole does not go far enough. I do not know anybody that got rich on the dole.


  • Options
    #70
    CamperMan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,835 ✭✭✭CamperMan


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    Sure who knows if things get any worse or prices go any higher here we may all be on the dole and then we can all see how we get on. I believe in the dole and when it comes to looking after children when a person is out of work there is not enough money for food,clothes,bills, etc, and the dole does not go far enough. I do not know anybody that got rich on the dole.

    you mention children.... you get child benefit for that..

    My older brother is on the dole, 3 kids, and he can afford his booze, fags, DVD's, takeaways, taxis, new washing machines and tumble driers... broadband, sky TV..... and that is just the dole money, he does not work on the side, his rent is 700 a month and most of that is paid by the social welfare, if you tally it all up, with dole, medical cards, rent allowance, child benefits... I bet it's well over €500 a week... and what job would pay that...

    I know others on the dole that live the good life on it... and they don't have to worry about where the money comes from, they just get it each week

    SIMPLE.... if you are on the dole, you should not be able to afford luxury items like sky TV, takeaways, booze, fags, taxis, etc. you should have to work for them...

    what the government should be doing is giving the people on the dole €20 cash per week, then the rest in tesco food vouchers...


  • Options
    #71
    CamperMan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,835 ✭✭✭CamperMan


    the last time I was on the dole (many years ago),... we could save between €50 & €100 per week (we don't smoke or drink!!!)...


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #72
    Kintarō Hattori
    Registered Users Posts: 14,964 ✭✭✭✭Kintarō Hattori


    CamperMan wrote: »
    the last time I was on the dole (many years ago),... we could save between €50 & €100 per week (we don't smoke or drink!!!)...

    Well then you were very lucky. I know my GF certainly can't save anything from it. It literally just covers the bills.


  • Options
    #73
    CamperMan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,835 ✭✭✭CamperMan


    Kintarō Hattori wrote: »
    Well then you were very lucky. I know my GF certainly can't save anything from it. It literally just covers the bills.

    tell her to sell the car and stop buying the designer clothes and fancy makeup....


  • Options
    #74
    CamperMan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,835 ✭✭✭CamperMan


    Kintarō Hattori wrote: »
    Well then you were very lucky. I know my GF certainly can't save anything from it. It literally just covers the bills.

    you know, the more I mention it, the more it seems to be a better prospect for me on the dole than being self employed ... I might just go and sign on the dole Monday and have no worries... :D


  • Options
    #75
    dolliemix
    Registered Users Posts: 4,048 ✭✭✭dolliemix


    CamperMan wrote: »
    you know, the more I mention it, the more it seems to be a better prospect for me on the dole than being self employed ... I might just go and sign on the dole Monday and have no worries... :D

    Too right

    Unfortunately very true at this time. There are many people out there trying to keep there businesses alive and knowing that they're losing possibly thousands every week.

    A simpler life would be to go the dole.

    Sad thing is these people who are going further and further into debt are still paying taxes for people who are on the dole complaining that they're not getting enough.


  • Options
    #76
    CamperMan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,835 ✭✭✭CamperMan


    dolliemix wrote: »
    Too right

    Unfortunately very true at this time. There are many people out there trying to keep there businesses alive and knowing that they're losing possibly thousands every week.

    A simpler life would be to go the dole.

    Sad thing is these people who are going further and further into debt are still paying taxes for people who are on the dole complaining that they're not getting enough.

    If I went on the dole, I would be far better off, guaranteed


  • Options
    #77
    TheNog
    Registered Users Posts: 4,160 ✭✭✭TheNog


    RiverWilde wrote: »
    The begruding attitude displayed on here towards people unlucky enough to be on the dole is quite surprising.

    I dont think the majority of people here are bearing a grudge on people on the dole. If there is anyone who does have that grudge are just being insensitive.
    RiverWilde wrote: »
    If you have a job why the hell would you begrudge someone else a hand up by the state?

    No one is against a hand up but I am against a hand-out which some of us think the current dole rate is. There is no incentive to find work for the lifers on dole.
    RiverWilde wrote: »
    It seems that some people on here would rather people wound up living in a ghetto with their children in care and probably scarred for life.

    Not true but it is a little sensationalist view of this thread.
    RiverWilde wrote: »
    Which is better - help someone who has lost a job find a new skill, career path, job etc and survive the economic loss and ultimately benefit society in the long term or allow market forces to crucify them and their families?

    Help by all means, maybe through community service to teach new skills but current state of our economy we cannot afford these handouts for much longer. So I say reduce the dole or at least have it means tested so as to reduce the risk of damaging the economy further in the short and long term.
    RiverWilde wrote: »
    It is the states duty to my mind to protect the vulnerable in society. That's what it's there for otherwise where is the rationale for the state in the first place?

    Riv

    It certainly is the states responsibility to protect the vulnerable but we cannot support an unrealistic position any longer that we could have a cuple of years ago.

    My 2 cent and remember I was once on the dole myself and lived on alot less money.


  • Options
    #78
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Options
    #79
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Well if you want to work that out, you'd have to actually tally up the costs for each.

    I know the rent supplement or whatever its called wouldn't actually cover my rent in the cheapest accomodation I could find and I don't live in Dublin, I commute in each day to work.

    I think some of the dole money should be transferred to rent supplement and rent supplement should be monitored to see how much each person needs for rent with an overall cap to keep people from living in expensive accomodation since the state shouldn't carry that burden.

    Overall though, the Dole should really cover someone temporarily for a few months to live in the house they live in when they are laid off so they can focus on getting a new job. If after a few months they are still unemployed then they should be made adjust to cheap accomodation and get rid of all the luxuries.

    At the end of the day, the person that turns up looking like a hobo and smell worse isn't going to get a job.


  • Options
    #80
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Options
    #81
    turgon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭turgon


    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Yeah but a problem is if they genuinely cant find work at all.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #82
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Options
    #83
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Most people in this country only have one language though which cuts down on options for places to work.

    I wouldn't have any problems working in another country but I don't speak their language.

    I speak some French but their fooked too :P Come to think of it, which EU country won't be fooked?


  • Options
    #84
    Danno
    Registered Users Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    Another element of our society is the amount of drug dealers and drug users claiming benefit. IMHO, if anyone is convicted while in reciept of a social welfare payment should have all money cut, given food stamps instead.


  • Options
    #85
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Options
    #86
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    Danno wrote: »
    Another element of our society is the amount of drug dealers and drug users claiming benefit. IMHO, if anyone is convicted while in reciept of a social welfare payment should have all money cut, given food stamps instead.

    Maybe but I'd rather they be forced to do community service to earn the food stamps until they find a proper job TBH. Don't give them the spare time for crime!
    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Yeah but they learn young and like you said, our education system isn't great for foreign languages.

    The older you get, the harder it is to learn. They also have much higher exposure to English every day in their nation. I mean a lot of the media they are exposed to is in English and it makes it incredibly easier to learn that way.

    I was very good at French but I forget it because I have no exposure. When I run into a French person it starts to come back if they start talking to me.

    That is something we lose out on in Europe. It easier for them to come here than the other way around.


  • Options
    #87
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Options
    #88
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    True it just reduces the likelyhood of people doing it. It takes balls to move to another country when you can't talk to the people there without them being willing to speak their second language in their own country.

    I don't think it would go down too well in France for example :)

    Most businesses would work primarily in English if a multi-national but you are definitely going to need the native language too. No way you'd get away with that one. You'd have to do classes here to learn and then go in my opinion and hope you pick up the rest and work out your problems in the first few weeks.


  • Options
    #89
    SAVE_ME.222
    Closed Accounts Posts: 153 ✭✭SAVE_ME.222


    PRSI - if you are gonna cut the dole, you have to reduce PRSI also. I've paid over €4000, not to mention what my employers have contibuted, since beginning work. I could claim the full dole for 20 weeks and not have taken a cent from the state.


  • Options
    #90
    Kintarō Hattori
    Registered Users Posts: 14,964 ✭✭✭✭Kintarō Hattori


    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    I hope to god you don't ever wind up being able to make those decisions. My GF has been unemployed now for about 3 months. She's gone to plenty of interviews, gone to just about every recruitment agency there is and applied for more jobs on the net than I could count. People simply aren't employing at the moment and it's as simple as that. I can assure you that she would much rather be out working than spending her time at home.

    She is at least being productive at home and is studying for the QFA diploma while she's not working so she'll be more qualified when things do pick up.
    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    So you want to ship the unemployed out of Ireland and put the problem elsewhere. You are aware aren't you that this is a GLOBAL recession and most other countries within the EU are in the same position.
    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Why can't we do the same? English is a global language and most other countires within the EU speak it to some degree. What use is polish in france or slovakian in spain?
    I agree that far too much emphasis is placed on irish and our children should learn a language that will benefit them within the EU.
    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Your arguements do really seem rather poorly thought out. Because 'irish people speak english they should have a fair shot of communicating in whatever country they wind up in'......... while english is a global language and it can get you by in a multi-national company you still need to speak the language of the country you're going to be in. You would need to educate this 'workforce' you are talking about in multiple languages which would be very very difficult to implement. What's the guarantee of getting them a job in the country you've sent them too?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #91
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


Advertisement