Transport 21 - The remake

Sponge Bob

Which bit of

"THERE IS NO MONEY"

does McGuckian not understand ?

Punting stuff like this out when we cannot even fill our potholes any more is seriously daft !

IIMII

Yeah. And was watching Primetime on Tue about the rail projects. I'd love to see the Navan line up and running (and I hope it still is built) but I think we are so deeply in sh1t at the moment that much of what was promised should be parked. At least the WRC is well under way - that and Croke Park can be the trophy legacy's of the boom. I love the way the WRC crowd slipped in the dig at Dunboyne costing the same as Ennis Athenry (which I doubt) when EA will carry only 2 busloads of passengers a day, when Clon-Dun will carry thousands of passengers a day over a much short distance

Nostradamus

crocro wrote: »

fcuking marvellous idea, brian. looking forward to the next already.

Oh the visionary sustainable projects just keeps a comin...

Newtowncunnigham could be rail hub


18 April 2008
Newtowncunnigham could be a major centre of rail development in Donegal if plans by a top transport researcher are taken on board by government.
The e700 million extension of the Western Rail Corridor from Sligo to Derry, going through Donegal Town and Letterkenny, is included in a e6 billion proposed expansion of the national rail network submitted to the Department of Transport by Dublin-based transport researcher, Brian Guckian.

Speaking to the 'Journal' yesterday Mr. Guckian said his plan would propose that trains would leave Derry's east bank, follow the old Co. Donegal Railway line to Newbuildings, cross the Foyle at Carrigans and then up to Newtowncunnigham where buses from Buncrana, Carndonagh etc could provide a passenger feeder service from Inishowen for those planning to go by rail to Dublin.

Asked if it was feasible to lay rail tracks into Inishowen, Mr. Guckian remarked: "In England they have been laying down what is described as 'ultra light' railtracks which can be used by, basically, a tram. It's a very low cost track, around about £1.5m a kilometre. Most of the old track bed from Buncrana is still there so it could well be possible. It would certainly open up Inishowen for tourism. Taking this kind of track further north into, say, Carndonagh, would, I believe, be problematical."

The Department is curently seeking submissions from the public on how to make transport in Ireland more sustainable.

Mr Guckian has said he's also putting a proposal to Translink in the North for the re-opening of the line between Derry and Portadown as part of a through route to Dublin.

"This new proposal would complement the Sligo rail link and would also give direct connection by rail from Dublin to Letterkenny in three-and-a-half hours, as well as boosting communities in Fermanagh and Tyrone," he said.

Mr. Guckian welcomed significant progress to date on the Sligo to Derry rail link proposal and said that it was non-political, feasible, affordable and viable. He expressed confidence that communities and their public representatives in the Northwest working together would make it happen.

He said: "Last year I published research and development work on the proposal that suggested the link would generate environmental, social and economic benefits of e80m a year to the region. Further tourist benefits could amount to at least e20m a year, particularly as the link would complete a "Round Ireland" rail route that could be marketed as a unique national tourism product.

"The data also indicated that the capital cost of the link could be recouped in a 10-year period, and it is eligible for EU and Cross-Border funding," he said.

Mr. Guckian said the rail links would transform the North West and were essential for sustainable social, economic and tourism development.

He commented: "I have always believed the people in the North-West are more clued in on this issue than most. Down South we have politicians calling for big motorways when there is an almost derelict rail track close by. With the growing cost of oil, the increasing cost of motor vehicles/lorries etc, the stress of driving and trying to find parking in a very overcrowded city why don't we use rail which is more than three to four times more cost efficient than road transport.

"Taking all those motor cars and lorries off the road would also be very beneficial for our environment and the health of our communities"

Gruffalo

Newtowncunningham / New York, shur you couldn't tell the difference.

Irish and Proud

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Which bit of

"THERE IS NO MONEY"

does McGuckian not understand ?

Punting stuff like this out when we cannot even fill our potholes any more is seriously daft !

Potholes like the 1980s and 1990s? :eek::eek::eek:

Try foreclosing (using the CAB) on the assets of people who got us into this economic mess! :mad::mad::mad:

...maybe, just maybe we might then have the dosh to avoid the above nightmares!!! :):)

Regards!

strassenwolf

What a great, informative place boards.ie is!

I've been in all 32 counties - if we're still allowed to say that:D - and I have worked for periods of time in about 6 of them.

But I have to confess that I had never even heard of Newtowncunningham until today.

In around 40 years of living in Ireland, working in Ireland, and following events and developments in Ireland from overseas, this location has never entered my consciousness.

I am confident that I am not alone.

I'm currently without ready access to a detailed map of Ireland, so I'm working on trust that the place does actually exist.

I am somewhat puzzled as to why it should become a rail hub

Gruffalo

strassenwolf wrote: »

What a great, informative place boards.ie is!

I've been in all 32 counties - if we're still allowed to say that:D - and I have worked for periods of time in about 6 of them.

But I have to confess that I had never even heard of Newtowncunningham until today.

In around 40 years of living in Ireland, working in Ireland, and following events and developments in Ireland from overseas, this location has never entered my consciousness.

I am confident that I am not alone.

I'm currently without ready access to a detailed map of Ireland, so I'm working on trust that the place does actually exist.

I am somewhat puzzled as to why it should become a rail hub

I can sense the stress and torment caused by your lack of knowledge of Newtowncunningham so I attach the wikipedia link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newtowncunningham

After reading this I am sure you will agree that it is a waste to put a railway hub there. It is an airport that is needed.

sdanseo

I still don't understand why the government can't see the benefits of an Obama-esque capital expenditure program that lasts the length of the recession. It provides thousands upon thousands of jobs and we'd be left with nothign short of state-of-the art infrastructure that would last decades if done right.

I don't know how Obama is funding his idea, given the trillion-dollar deficit, but if we could crack the funding hump through borrowing, tax hikes, whatever is nessecary it would be worth it in the end. Better to be employed and paying 30/50pc tax rates than not employed, for those of us who arent lazy beggars that is.

bill_ashmount

strassenwolf wrote: »

In around 40 years of living in Ireland, working in Ireland, and following events and developments in Ireland from overseas, this location has never entered my consciousness.

I am confident that I am not alone.

HeHe, I thought I was the only one

crocro

sdonn_1 wrote: »

I still don't understand why the government can't see the benefits of an Obama-esque capital expenditure program that lasts the length of the recession. It provides thousands upon thousands of jobs and we'd be left with nothign short of state-of-the art infrastructure that would last decades if done right.

The US stimulus package is 787bn over 10 years. on a per capita basis, that's like ireland spending an extra 1bn a year.

Ireland is already spenidng nearly 8bn this year on capital projects in 2009. 3.6bn is going on transport in 2009 with two thirds going to roads.

BendiBus

sdonn_1 wrote: »

I still don't understand why the government can't see the benefits of an Obama-esque capital expenditure program that lasts the length of the recession.

This came up on Prime Time the other night.

Money spent in America stays largely in America.

If Ireland spends large amounts on infrastructure, lots of it is on imports - products, expertise, people. So the economic benefit in Ireland is far lower. Much of the spend helps to stimulate the economies of other countries.

You still get the infrastructure but not the same spinoff benefits.

IIMII

Which is why they are talking about breaking ground ready projects

DWCommuter

No metro, no Navan and no interconnector. Add to that no luas link up and we can all pat ourselves on the back for a job well done.

Who's surprised? Im not. Regardless of recession, it wouldn't have been completed anyway. FF talked a load of ****e. Always have done and always will. The opposition aren't much better either. The is a public transport allergy in Irish politics.

As for Brian Guckian? Here's one that I'll hang out in public. I once said to him in conversation that we can't go around proposing projects all over the place such as a luas from Attymon to Loughrea (i was joking). His response......"why not Derek?"

Enough said.

If he's going to pop his head up in public spouting baloney like lines to Derry, Sligo and wherever, then he deserves all the public redicule that sensible and realistic people can throw at him. In my opinion he's identical (albeit different projects) to other so called rail campaigners. They like getting their names in the papers and on radio. They don't actually give a toss about real commuters. They only care about the little worlds they inhabit and their little projects that deliver no mass moving solutions.

With T21 in tatters, cut backs hacking into existing infrastructure and a future thats looking pretty bleak, what a pity that all we have now in the public domain are lunatics and crazy proposals and an irrelevent rail lobby.

Where did it all go wrong?

Who cares.:D

Judgement Day

Derek - Just had a look at your latest blog - you're a sad and twisted individual just like I used to be! My advice - Guinness, Magners League & Heineken Cup Rugby.......with PaddyPower.com picking up the bill! It works for me. :):)

Nostradamus

DWCommuter wrote: »

Where did it all go wrong?

DWCommuter

Judgement Day wrote: »

Derek - Just had a look at your latest blog - you're a sad and twisted individual just like I used to be! My advice - Guinness, Magners League & Heineken Cup Rugby.......with PaddyPower.com picking up the bill! It works for me. :):)

Tonight its Ireland V Bulgaria and pints galore! The nutjobs and political sluts can have the internet all to themselves. And I promise not to log on drunk!!!

1huge1

Nostradamus wrote: »

Ha brillaint

D'Peoples Voice

sdonn_1 wrote: »

I don't know how Obama is funding his idea, given the trillion-dollar deficit......

To avoid going off topic, I'll keep it short!
But at the minute what is happening is

the US treasury issues bonds on behalf of Government,
the US banks buy those bonds, giving the Government the needed cash
the US Federal Reserve prints more money, then gives this money to US banks in exchange for the Government bonds!

Net effect The Government has more money and there is more money in circulation. The Irish central bank can't print money without authorization from ECB, so we need private investors to use own cash to give to our government, but based on past history who would trust them to invest it wisely.

Thats said, the ECB are buying Government bonds from the banks in order to pump liquidity into the market!

paulm17781

Metro North has not been scrapped. Not sure what's happening with the interconnector.

http://breakingnews.ie/ireland/eyaueysngbid/

Nostradamus

paulm17781 wrote: »

Metro North has not been scrapped. Not sure what's happening with the interconnector.

http://breakingnews.ie/ireland/eyaueysngbid/

I suspect the Interconnector will be binned and the PPT back on the cards. Yeah I know...but....

D'Peoples Voice

paulm17781 wrote: »

Metro North has not been scrapped. Not sure what's happening with the interconnector.

http://breakingnews.ie/ireland/eyaueysngbid/

I love the last sentence - classic PR stuff.

serfboard

I don't see how you could read that article and conclude that it is not being scrapped.

However, Mr Dempsey said today that the cabinet had decided that the project would continue until all construction tenders were submitted.

He said the cost of the project would be re-evaluated

So, they're not scrapping it today. They're just going to wait until all the tenders are in and go - "How Much?:eek:" and then scrap it.

DWCommuter

serfboard wrote: »

I don't see how you could read that article and conclude that it is not being scrapped.



So, they're not scrapping it today. They're just going to wait until all the tenders are in and go - "How Much?:eek:" and then scrap it.

Exactly. Considering the stage its at now it would be a PR disaster to pull the plug at this point. Its not costing the state anything significant at the moment.

Im still not convinced the financial situation allows us the luxury of Metro North. Certainly the more economically experienced than me seem to think its a non runner in monetary terms.

A Government will always wait until they run out of road before delivering the bad news.

BluntGuy

When are the government going to say "we can't afford Metro North and Interconnector".

We simply can't.

End of story.

DWCommuter

BluntGuy wrote: »

When are the government going to say "we can't afford Metro North and Interconnector".

We simply can't.

End of story.

MN when the tender/planning phase is complete. The interconnector will just quietly disappear off the radar.

At this stage if we can't stick to any grand scheme that includes the important rail projects, then I'd rather see a smaller sum of money spread across smaller public transport schemes.

Realistically its time for Irish Rail to get creative. The RPA may aswell shut up shop. We can have it reopened when we work out a genuine* way to stimulate the economy.

* Not property development.

murphaph

Budapest is forging ahead with Metro line 4 and line 5 is at advanced design stage, ready to go to construction next year by all accounts. Hungary is in the sh!t too by the way with massive unemployment and from what I saw, people are finding it tough there. I'm not saying we should plough on regardless of what happens but we must cut our cloth to suit our measure and that means slashing day to day expenditure so we can continue the capital programme at a reduced pace. We cannot afford to halt everything to pay the civil service wage bill or we will fall further behind our neighbours.

The Interconnector would obviously deliver more bang for the buck over MN any day so if either must be postponed it should be MN and a proper AerDart service should be set up in the interim to get passengers to the DART from the airport. We could even build a monorail a la Dusseldorf Airport:



It's 2.5km long (very similar distance to northern line, possibly even shorter?) and I've used it a few times and it's superb. It would have a continuing use even after MN is eventually built. Funnily enough when I went searching for the image I discovered that Dublin Airport actually owns 20% of Dusseldorf Airport. Make you wonder.

Nostradamus

Can we afford a Halfconnector just to the Green!

spacetweek

I'm relieved MN is going ahead. I never seriously thought they'd cancel it.

D'Peoples Voice

its not too bad - but wait until December's budget I guess.

Press Release from the DOT after the Mini-budget

The revised allocation of over €3 billion for 2009 will enable major progress to be made notwithstanding the economic downturn:
 
Public Transport - €972 million
 
This will enable progress on a wide range of projects, including:

    * Completion of construction on the Luas extension from Connolly Station to Docklands,
    * Opening of Phase 1 of the Western Rail Corridor from Ennis to Athenry,
    * Re-opening of the Cork-Midleton rail line leading to a major extension of commuter rail services in Cork,
    * Completion of construction on the Kildare Rail project providing four tracks and allowing for the trebling of passenger capacity,
    * Continuation of work on the Luas extensions to Cherrywood and Citywest,
    * Construction of Phase 1 of the Navan rail line,
    * The Dublin City Centre Resignalling project,
    * Planning works on Metro North
    * Planning works for the DART Interconnector,
    * Continuing investment in bus priority in Dublin and the regional cities.

 
Funding will be continued in 2009 for:

    * Public transport services
    * The Rural Transport Programme (providing some 20,000 passenger journeys in rural areas each week)
    * The Green Schools Programme (targeting by 2012 260,000 school children by providing walking/cycling/public transport alternatives to get to school). 

 
Roads - €1.99 billion
 
Adequate funding is being provided to ensure the completion on schedule of the road links between Dublin and the main regional cities of Cork, Galway, Limerick and Waterford. These major interurban routes are on time and on budget for completion by end 2010.
 
The NRA expects that eight major projects, totalling 156 km of dual carriageway road, will open to traffic this year. These are:

    * N4 Leixlip to M50 Junction,
    * N6 Athlone to Ballinasloe,
    * M7 Nenagh to Limerick,
    * M8 Mitchelstown to Fermoy,
    * N9 Waterford to Knocktopher,
    * M9 Kilcullen to Carlow,
    * N25 Waterford City Bypass,
    * N51 Navan Inner Relief Road.

 
Work will continue on a range of other important projects, totalling 322 km of road, including:

    * M3 Clonee to North of Kells,
    * N6 Galway to Ballinasloe,
    * N7 the Limerick tunnel,
    * M7 Castletown to Nenagh,
    * M7/M8 Portlaoise to Castletown/Cullahill,
    * N9 Carlow to Knocktopher,
    * N18 Gort to Crusheen,
    * N21 Castleisland Bypass,
    * M50 Upgrade Phase 2,
    * N52 Tullamore Bypass.

 
€448 million is being made available to local authorities throughout the country for the improvement and maintenance of regional and local roads. 

DWCommuter

It all concurs with what Ive said before. Existing projects continue in construction as contracts are signed. The really big stuff continues in planning as its costing peanuts.

We still await a gun to head moment. Thats when it goes tits up. This is all political strategy.