My squats are seriously lacking

cardio,shoot me

i leg press 250kg for 15 reps but i can only squat 60kg for 8 reps squats are way harder indeed

Pro-Nutrition

cardio,shoot me wrote: »

i leg press 250kg for 15 reps but i can only squat 60kg for 8 reps squats are way harder indeed

I hear ya man. I am strong on legpress, my best has been 500kg for 6-8 and when it comes to squat I would be really struggling. But thats the way it goes. I blame it on my height

cardio,shoot me

500kilos, nice , i hope to get to that one day, im only 15 atm but ive started to see improvements, i also blame my height on squat, seems like im the only one struggling to get below parallel im 6ft3 and inflexible as hell, havent touched my toes since i last fell of my bike

BobbyOLeary

So you're using an inferior exercise instead of taking time to become flexible enough to squat? A few workouts with some light enough weights will stretch you out enough to go below parallel. Get off that leg press and get squatting.

cardio,shoot me

BobbyOLeary wrote: »

So you're using an inferior exercise instead of taking time to become flexible enough to squat? A few workouts with some light enough weights will stretch you out enough to go below parallel. Get off that leg press and get squatting.

where do u get that idea, i do both with equal intensity, just cause i said i struggle at squatting doesnt mean i take it easier, i go below parallell, i throw plates under my heals to make sure i do, im not boasting or anything but my form is perfect, and i would never call leg press an inferior exercise, there both brilliant, i do squats twice a week and leg press twice a week for about 8 sets on each

BobbyOLeary

and i would never call leg press an inferior exercise

Oh? Please explain how a leg press is not inferior to a barbell squat. Where does it match or exceed the squat in any way?

And the fact that you can use bigger weights is not a valid answer.

danburke

A routine that I have found works well for me is to squat 30% of my max squat so 40kg (max single lift is 120kg) for as long as i can keep my form, so about 4 minutes, then over to the leg press and do 3 x 10 by 85kg, then 3 x 8 (hamstring machine) 65kg and then 3 x 10 70 kg calf extensions with the squat bar..

The idea is to focus on technique and build up the time to 8 1/2 minutes squatting before you move up in weight on the bar...

In the two months I've been doing it my time has gone from 1m to 4m squatting and leg press from 55kg to 85kg and so on...

A good tip for form that my chiropractor gave me is to stand facing a wall with you face and toes as close and possible and to concentrate on bending only from your hip..

I'm in no way an expert or anything but i like this workout

p.s. I'm only 5'7 and weigh 63kg

cardio,shoot me

BobbyOLeary wrote: »

Oh? Please explain how a leg press is not inferior to a barbell squat. Where does it match or exceed the squat in any way?

And the fact that you can use bigger weights is not a valid answer.

Your avoiding ur initial mistake in stating i dont squat with as much heart as i do leg press, my strength has nothing to do with it, i merely stated i find squats alot harder, and i made this evident by comparing weights i was doing, and i feel comparing a leg press to a barbell squat is like comparing apples and oranges, there both good, why choose? But if u must ask i have some reasons as to why i feel one is no worse than the other, The squat stresses all the musclulature of the back and to some degrees traps and delts, going high on squat can cause problems if u have already incurred back problems, (and if u want to go big on the squat, u may find you have to use a weightlifting belt which i hear causes problems with form, which is something i dont want to sacrifice at any costs) while the leg press only puts weight on the hips and legs and i feel it also isolates the quads, calves and hamstrings more cause of the sheer poundages on the machine, while the squat also works your core muscles also, not that this is a bad thing but im using squat as a leg exercise. So here you are many reasons why i find both exercises equally worthy of equal time in the gym.On a side note u mentioned bigger weights on leg press, i am not a fool you see, im also good at maths, and a standard leg press is set at an angle of about 45* if im correct, so to work out your actual weight your pressing, lets say its 700 pounds (some day ), thats works out 700*sin45 which = 495 pounds, so the actual weight isnt that high

Hanley

cardio,shoot me wrote: »

Your avoiding ur initial mistake in stating i dont squat with as much heart as i do leg press, my strength has nothing to do with it, i merely stated i find squats alot harder, and i made this evident by comparing weights i was doing, and i feel comparing a leg press to a barbell squat is like comparing apples and oranges, there both good, why choose? But if u must ask i have some reasons as to why i feel one is no worse than the other, The squat stresses all the musclulature of the back and to some degrees traps and delts, going high on squat can cause problems if u have already incurred back problems, (and if u want to go big on the squat, u may find you have to use a weightlifting belt which i hear causes problems with form, which is something i dont want to sacrifice at any costs) while the leg press only puts weight on the hips and legs and i feel it also isolates the quads, calves and hamstrings more cause of the sheer poundages on the machine, while the squat also works your core muscles also, not that this is a bad thing but im using squat as a leg exercise. So here you are many reasons why i find both exercises equally worthy of equal time in the gym.On a side note u mentioned bigger weights on leg press, i am not a fool you see, im also good at maths, and a standard leg press is set at an angle of about 45* if im correct, so to work out your actual weight your pressing, lets say its 700 pounds (some day ), thats works out 700*sin45 which = 495 pounds, so the actual weight isnt that high

You have such misguided notions of what it actually takes to build big strong legs that I don't actually think there's any point in anyone engaging in this further...

BobbyOLeary

First off use some paragraphs, it makes it far easier to read.

Your avoiding ur initial mistake in stating i dont squat with as much heart as i do leg press

I never used those words. I said nothing about heart. Not once.

going high on squat can cause problems if u have already incurred back problems

So can lifting a bag of coal. Whats your point? Injured people should be careful when they squat? Of course, but neither you nor I are injured.

if u want to go big on the squat, u may find you have to use a weightlifting belt which i hear causes problems with form

Oh well if you heard it, it must be true. Buy the right belt and you won't have any problems. I would also guess that at 15 years of age and the fact that you're arguing the virtues of the leg press over the squat that you're not strong enough for this to make a lick of difference.

i feel it also isolates the quads, calves and hamstrings more cause of the sheer poundages on the machine

And with that point you've proved you don't know what you're on about. More weight means more isolation? Eh? So only when a certain amount of stress is placed on a muscle does it get utilised?

Listen, buy Starting Strength and read up a bit on squatting then get back to me. And get off the damn leg press.

cardio,shoot me

hmm ok, i see where i went wrong there , i myself am confused about what i last posted in regards to isolation, i dont know what i meant there. About the back problems,
i just fear back problems is all, i wasnt giving a reason about me in paticular, just reasons why the legpress is also good.
and yes i heard weight lifting belts can hurt your form, i agree i wont be going near one for a while cause of lack of necessity, just a point i thought id mention
and Hanley, im sorry if im new to this, but i tried to make some valid points, and these arent the only thing i do to build legs, i do various exercises.

cardio,shoot me

And by the way, what do u find wrong with the leg press that i should get rid of it altogether

BobbyOLeary

Fair play for admitting you're wrong, most people won't.

The leg press forces the body to take up a particular movement pattern regardless of anthropometry (how you're made up, ratios of limb length to torso length etc.) and it also removes the element of balance and core stability. Also it allows people to brag about huge weights when they're not actually very strong, which just pisses me off.

The barbell squat does everything the legpress claims to do and then some. It works your legs, back, abs and is pretty taxing mentally (try a set of 20 Rep squats if you don't believe me). The barbell squat, when properly executed, allows your joints to go through a much more complete ROM which has a larger transference to the "real world". There is never a need for a healthy beginner to leg press if squatting facilities are available.

Squats are nasty, ugly, abusive lifts. They don't like you and will never be easy. That said, they're probably the most important lift for anyone to learn in their weight lifting careers. So that's why I want you to get off the damn leg press.

cardio,shoot me

remove altogether?, at the moment i do 4 sets of front squats and 4 sets of normal squats a week for about 8 reps, in next week the reps will up to 12 and then in another 4 weeks up to 15, with the weight dropping slowly to accomodate the extra reps.i go below parallell on normal squats, still trying to get down on fronts but im getting there. I also do standing calf raises and a a sitting calf machine in my gym and stiff leg deadlifts, lunges and a kind of squat machine[IMG]file:///C:/Users/E-r-i-c/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot.jpg[/IMG]

BobbyOLeary

Remove altogether. They're doing nothing that the Front Squats, Back Squats and Lunges aren't.

Where did you get that program by the way? You're doing an awful amount of compound leg work in those sessions. Really, at your age (and at mine, don't get me wrong), you've no need to be doing two types of calf raises along with all your squats. Also, you've no need to do hack squats, thats what that machine is for.

Could you post up your full program please? It seems a bit crowded and complex at the minute.

Colm_OReilly

I'd hate for this to sound like an attack but how can you say your form is perfect if you squat with your heels on plates?

cardio,shoot me

will i post it here or under my own topic?
edit: regarding my form, well, hmm, confused myself again, ill put it this way ,its the best i can do if i wanna get below parallel

BobbyOLeary

Just post it here, no point in starting something new.

What Colm means by the plates (I missed that, thanks Col) is that a squat with perfect form will have the feet flat on the ground. You're better off doing a few workouts with a lighter weight to stretch yourself out than rely on the plates. Your progress will slow down while you get used to it but its much better for you in the long term.

Hanley

BobbyOLeary wrote: »

Just post it here, no point in starting something new.

What Colm means by the plates (I missed that, thanks Col) is that a squat with perfect form will have the feet flat on the ground. You're better off doing a few workouts with a lighter weight to stretch yourself out than rely on the plates. Your progress will slow down while you get used to it but its much better for you in the long term.

Is the implication there that weightlifters don't have perfect squat form?

cardio,shoot me

okey dokey ill post it later tonight, i have another question, i was trying out squatting in the gym one day and i was using a stance slightly wider than shoulders with feet pointing out, i could go below parallell with this stance but someone in the rack beside me told me not to point my feet out. Is this Info i should stick to or is feet pointing out ok?

Transform

Jesus man you really need to talk to a trainer about a proper program or video your squats asap.All that leg work in one week just screams of over training and wasted time.

Every joe in the gym will give you a different opinion on leg work so stick to what your told here and you will not go wrong.

On a final point for ANY ONE - posting up your max lift on a leg press means shag all! I have seen plenty of guys lifting lots on it yet almost all look very unimpressive and couldn't manage 10reps of full squats or deadlifts with their own body weight.

Leg press is a glory/ego exercise

BobbyOLeary

Hanley wrote: »

Is the implication there that weightlifters don't have perfect squat form?

You know what I mean Hanley, squatting on plates isn't good form. With Oly shoes the heel elevation is directly tied to your feet and can't move.

BobbyOLeary

cardio,shoot me wrote: »

someone in the rack beside me told me not to point my feet out. Is this Info i should stick to or is feet pointing out ok?

Next time someone gives you advice in the gym ask them the reasoning behind their advice, note that "it's bad for your knees and I'm hoooge so I must be right" is not a valid answer. Pointing your feet out slightly (~30 degrees for me) is the right thing to do. It allows for correct patellar tracking in your knee as you descend. Your feet should be parallel to your quadriceps.

cardio,shoot me

ok well heres my program (brackets mean exercises i may sub in every 2nd day )
Day 1, chest back and shoulders: flat bench press;3 sets of 5. dips; 4 sets of 8. shoulder press; 3 sets of 5. upright rows; 3 sets of 5. T-Bar rows; 3 sets of 6-7. close grip pull ups; 4 sets of whatever reps i can manage. for chest i would alternate with press ups flat dumbell press and incline bench. Shoulders id swap in dumbell shoulder press and shrugs. Back id swap in wide grip pull ups and deadlifts.

Day 2, arms and legs: tricep pushdown; 3 sets of 5-6. Skull crushers; 3 sets of 5-6. bicep curl; 4 sets of 5-6. squat(front or normal); 3 sets of 5-8. lunges; 3 sets of 10. legpress; 3 sets of 8.

then i do a day of cardio in which i include standing calf raises and the sitting machine for 3 sets of 12 each. every 4 weeks the reps change from 5-8 to 8-12 to 12-15.

i got the program off an mma fighter who used to bodybuild his name is brad corbally

Hanley

cardio,shoot me wrote: »

ok well heres my program (brackets mean exercises i may sub in every 2nd day )

Day 1 - chest back and shoulders:
flat bench press;3 sets of 5.
dips; 4 sets of 8.
shoulder press; 3 sets of 5.
upright rows; 3 sets of 5.
T-Bar rows; 3 sets of 6-7.
close grip pull ups; 4 sets of whatever reps i can manage.

for chest i would alternate with press ups flat dumbell press and incline bench. Shoulders id swap in dumbell shoulder press and shrugs. Back id swap in wide grip pull ups and deadlifts.

Day 2 - arms and legs:
tricep pushdown; 3 sets of 5-6.
Skull crushers; 3 sets of 5-6.
bicep curl; 4 sets of 5-6.
squat(front or normal); 3 sets of 5-8.
lunges; 3 sets of 10.
legpress; 3 sets of 8.

then i do a day of cardio in which i include standing calf raises and the sitting machine for 3 sets of 12 each. every 4 weeks the reps change from 5-8 to 8-12 to 12-15.

Broken down so it's a bit easier to read.

I don't see too much wrong with it to be honest.

Maybe some more hamstring work, and I'd drop the upright rows. But other than that it looks decent.

How many days do you train? 3x a week?

So Monday = day 1, Wedneday = day 2, Friday = day 1, Monday = day 2 etc etc ??

cardio,shoot me

hmm thanks for mentioning days a week i forgot, no it goes like this
Monday: day 1
Tuesday: day 2
wednesday: off
Thursday: day 1
Friday: day 2
Sathurday: cardio/ calves
Sunday: off
then it repeats

Edit: thanks for cleaning it up

delllat

cardio,shoot me wrote: »

hmm thanks for mentioning days a week i forgot, no it goes like this
Monday: day 1
Tuesday: day 2
wednesday: off
Thursday: day 1
Friday: day 2
Sathurday: cardio/ calves
Sunday: off
then it repeats

Edit: thanks for cleaning it up

is your main goal size or strength or bodybuilding?

cardio,shoot me

delllat wrote: »

is your main goal size or strength or bodybuilding?

at the moment i wanna get larger,leaner and stronger,i realise i cant get larger and leaner at same time but thats my goal for the next few years

delllat

cardio,shoot me wrote: »

at the moment i wanna get larger,leaner and stronger,i realise i cant get larger and leaner at same time but thats my goal for the next few years

at the risk of over simplifying things i would scrap the program ur doing
and concentrate on

bench
deadlift
squat

about twice per week as heavy as possible ,eat like a horse ,as clean as possible but heaps of calories

done correctly with enough intensity these 3 exercises will grow your entire body and add quality meat to your bones

BobbyOLeary

delllat wrote: »

at the risk of over simplifying things i would scrap the program ur doing
and concentrate on

bench
deadlift
squat

about twice per week as heavy as possible ,eat like a horse ,as clean as possible but heaps of calories

done correctly with enough intensity these 3 exercises will grow your entire body and add quality meat to your bones

Just do Starting Strength, its pretty much what you've described here and has a good track record of making small guys into big and strong guys. I've posted up about SS too many times to mention, do a search of the forum for it or google starting strength wiki.