Benitez not happy with Fergie

Mr Alan

i aint calling you a liar my good man x x x x x

mormank

PHB wrote: »

Anyone who thinks United get favoritist treatment from the FA is joking themselves. Any sensible person can see this. In some areas, they get away with stuff, just like everyone else does in some areas. Fergie knows how to manipulate refs, as do the United players. At the same time, the amount of penalties we should get is nowhere close to the amount of penalties we deserve. Ronaldo was defo fouled in the box by Carvalho yesterday, no doubt about it, defo penalty, nothing done, except book Ronaldo and Carvalho. That said, I think that problem is of Ronaldo's doing to an extent. On other stuff, United are used to set examples, which is pretty ****ing annoying, see Evra this year.

Rooney is extremly aggressive to refs. No doubt about it. Refs need to book him. Then again, if they stopped ****ing up so much, maybe he wouldn't have so much to give out to them about. I don't want him to stop, because it works and he gets away with it. As for the Mascherano debate again, I don't really care anymore. Maybe refs should be more consistant, but ultimately, Mascherano was stupid to do what he did, and we would have won the game anyway, so

As for this being a sign of Benetiz cracking. It was a weird comment. But I don't think its why United beat Chelsea, and I don't think its why Liverpool drew with stoke. It's just an easiest explanation than Liverpools attack lacks some potency and Chelsea's defending leaves much to be desired. Also, it's more fun. That said, his following comments about Gill are pretty weird, so maybe he is cracking. But I really can't see Rafa cracking under pressure personally, he seems too chillaxed for it. I think he's just distracting attention from his teams inadequcies, something that Fergie has been doing for years, something Mourinho loves to do.

im sorry but your first sentence here is complete tripe..yes once or twice ye have been held up as examples, rio for example, but to say evra didnt deserve his ban is rubbish.

to say utd dont get the amount of penos they deserve is rubbish unless your saying that no teams get the amount of penoes they deserve but utd almost get the full amount they deserve whereas otherteams get nowhere near it..utd also dont give away as many penoes as they deserve..im sure of the exact stat but im pretty sure utd have given away one peno at old trafford in the 500 years or summit!!! you have more chance of winning the league than gettin a peno at old trafford..and dont waste ur time sayin its cos ye never committed a foul in the box cos that is simply wrong..

as for rooney, blatantly shouldve been sent off over the course of the game yesterday, who knows if he got the first yellow for the boswinga thing he couldve been sent off before the end of the game, boosting chelsea morale and endin up with a draw or chelsea victory..ha.

utd fans really annoy me with how they just dont see the favouritsm they get from refs..its almost like they think its normal. its not guys.

p.s. boggles if u are reading this plz dont respond, ur arguments are like that of a 12 yeaar old most of the time...

Ruskie4Rent

Deleted User wrote: »

It's quite obvious really. He ran all the way back, won the ball well only to have Bosingwa illegally get his body between Rooney and the ball, which the ref didn't punish. i highly doubt there was any other reason for it unless Webb made a move on Colleen before the game, which I doubt, and Rooney was letting him have it. Let's not get too technical here. It was clear to see that was what was annoying him.

Still though, should he really get that annoyed? Stuff like that is always going to happen in a match. Under the respect thing, he should've been booked. You have to ask why he wasn't.

With that in mind, i think the respect inititive is a load of bollox anyway. We shouldn't complain when we see a ref realise that this is a big game, things are always going to get a bit heated and some players are going to go off one.It's agood thing when refs keep the game at 11v11 in tense games like that without it boiling over into violence. Some times players need a bit of slack, and to be allowed get their temper tantrum out of their system.
It's a bit rich when one set of fans single out someone on another team when there are probably players that have a go at refs like rooney on every team in the premiership.

Mitch Connor

Mr Alan wrote: »

i aint calling you a liar my good man x x x x x

I say I am not trying to excuse his behavior, but explain what his own justification may have been (in response to the 'fact' he kicked out 'unprovoked') and you state that I am trying to excuse it.

Mr Alan

mormank wrote: »

p.s. boggles if u are reading this plz dont respond, ur arguments are like that of a 12 yeaar old most of the time...

-Boggles-

mormank

FatherTed wrote: »

You need to watch that game again. Mascherano was yapping at the ref throughout the first half. He kept at it and I think the ref just had had enough of him.

correct me if im wrong but im assuming yapping is slang for talkin..so what ur sayin is that the ref didnt like masch talkin to him so he sent him off..hmm, didnt know u could be booked for talkin to a ref...i know u could be booked for cursin or for showin disrespect but talkin??? hmm

Article by Duncan White writing in the Sunday Telegraph

(who is by no means a Fergie man)

HAS Rafael Benitez cracked? Has he fallen for the oldest of Sir Alex Ferguson’s ruses? Or was this Benitez seizing the initiative, a calculated attack designed to undermine the Manchester United manager’s formidable, not to say intimidating, influence?

Benitez is an almost compulsive intriguer. He has spent the last year engaged in a loosely concealed attempt to undermine his own chief executive, Rick Parry, employing innuendo and double-speak rather than coming out and clearly defining his position. He tussles for every advantage behind the scenes at Liverpool. Yet this attack on Ferguson is not the Machiavellian scheme some might attribute to Benitez. Leaving aside, for a moment, the accusation that he has risen to Ferguson’s bait, it is worth examining the validity of Benitez’s various accusations. Disinformation and half-truth abound. Charge 1: “We have seen players sent off at Old Trafford and we do not see our opponents sent off.” There has only been one player sent off at Old Trafford this season. In September, Middlesbrough’s Emanuel Pogatetz was shown the red card after he went in twofooted on Rodrigo Possebon. The young Brazilian midfielder was lucky to avoid serious injury and both the Boro manager Gareth Southgate and Pogatetz apologised. There can be absolutely no dispute.

Two players have been sent off for the opposition at Anfield this season. Wigan’s Luis Antonio Valencia was sent off for two bookings in October in a game that Liverpool won 3-2. His first caution was for encroaching on a free-kick. At the time Wigan manager Steve Bruce said: “It’s difficult enough coming to Anfield, but you need some fairness. Two minutes after Valencia was dismissed, [Nabil] El Zhar tackled Mario Melchiot in the same way and... nothing. That’s what annoys us.”

The other player to be sent off at Anfield? Nemanja Vidic of Manchester United.

Hardly fits Benitez’s conspiracy does it? Charge 2: “During the Respect campaign, and this is a fact, Mr Ferguson was charged by the FA for improper conduct after comments made about Martin Atkinson and Keith Hackett. He was not punished. He is the only manager in the league that cannot be punished for these things.” Ferguson was charged for making some pathetic and disparaging remarks about Atkinson after the FA Cup quarter-final defeat to Portsmouth in March. Carlos Queiroz, his then assistant, was also charged. Both were cleared by an independent commission, not the FA.

In regards to Hackett, Ferguson accused him of being biased towards Chelsea after John Terry’s red card against Manchester City was rescinded. Ferguson looked paranoid – the decision to send off Terry had been considered pretty harsh – and not a little self-interested as Terry was freed up to play United. And perhaps the FA’s failure to punish Ferguson was a weakness. But to suggest other managers get punished misses the mark. Everton’s David Moyes has been fined £5,000, Phil Brown has been fined £1,000 and Roy Keane received no fine over charges of improper conduct. All were warned about their future conduct.
While this might show that the Respect campaign is a sham, it does not suggest the FA are cracking down on anyone. Not a touchline ban to be seen. Oh, except for Ferguson, who was given a two-game ban for abusing Mike Dean after a the 4-3 win over Hull in November. He also got a £10,000 fine. So he is the one manager who has been substantially punished by the FA this season. Charge 3: “Then he was talking about the fixtures. Two years ago we were playing a lot of early kickoffs away on Saturdays when United were playing on Sundays – and we didn’t say anything.” Ferguson’s claims of an antiUnited bias in the fixture schedule are laughable. But so is Benitez’s countersuggestion that United were favoured in the past.

True, Liverpool did play five away fixtures in the early Saturday slot in the 2006-07 season, losing two, winning two and drawing one. But then United also played five away games for the Saturday matinee audience. Again, Benitez seems to have his facts wrong.

He is right that United played more Sunday games that season – nine to Liverpool’s five – but they are hardly advantageous if you are playing in the middle of the following week.

Jose Mourinho used to complain that the English league disadvantaged its Champions League competitors by failing to move games that undermined preparation for big ties. But then all teams have been disadvantaged equally.

Few managers take on Ferguson and come off unscathed. Benitez’s courage might be applauded if only his claims had more substance. Ferguson is petty and irrational, and he will wind you up until you crack.


Benitez might consider taking the higher ground in future.

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SlickRic

Ruskie4Rent wrote: »

Still though, should he really get that annoyed? Stuff like that is always going to happen in a match. Under the respect thing, he should've been booked. You have to ask why he wasn't.

With that in mind, i think the respect inititive is a load of bollox anyway. We shouldn't complain when we see a ref realise that this is a big game, things are always going to get a bit heated and some players are going to go off one.It's agood thing when refs keep the game at 11v11 in tense games like that without it boiling over into violence. Some times players need a bit of slack, and to be allowed get their temper tantrum out of their system.
It's a bit rich when one set of fans single out someone on another team when there are probably players that have a go at refs like rooney on every team in the premiership.

sorry but no

players can go off on one in a big game, but materialising that into kicking an opponent and refusing to show respect to the ref when you're being reprimanded is another thing.

rooney is singled out, not necessarily because he's definitely the worst (though I struggle to think of anyone on a par, nevermind worse tbh), its because he is a high-profile player who always gets away with it. whether its because of favouritism, or people don't want to take the 'edge' off him, its excused because its him

nobody deserves slack for violence or petulance. They're not thugs or children. They're professionals who play to a set of rules which should be abided by

Vic Vinegar

mormank wrote: »

correct me if im wrong but im assuming yapping is slang for talkin..so what ur sayin is that the ref didnt like masch talkin to him so he sent him off..hmm, didnt know u could be booked for talkin to a ref...i know u could be booked for cursin or for showin disrespect but talkin??? hmm

Yawn...

That was ages ago, get over it man!

Jazzy

Deleted User wrote: »

Article by Duncan White writing in the Sunday Telegraph

(who is by no means a Fergie man)

so he must be right then........


read that last paragraph of PHBs post. it makes more sense then any of the media atm. its all a deception, they just want ur $$$

Jazzy

Jazzy wrote: »

so he must be right then........


read that last paragraph of PHBs post. it makes more sense then any of the media atm. its all a deception, they just want ur $$$

Did you even read it? He took Benitez's "facts" and analysed them thoroughly. He didn't express opinion on them, he analysed them to see if they were valid claims.

Please read before commenting next time, cheers.

SlickRic

Few managers take on Ferguson and come off unscathed. Benitez’s courage might be applauded if only his claims had more substance. Ferguson is petty and irrational, and he will wind you up until you crack.


Benitez might consider taking the higher ground in future.


This sums it all for me to be honest. It would have riled Ferguson far more if he just left it...and if we'd ('Pool) gone on to win the league, just stayed silent and basked in the fact that he won without resorting to the pettiness Ferguson thrives on.

Now he will just get painted with the same brush.

But then again, much like Ferguson, will he care how he's depicted if we do win it? Probably not

Unearthly

mormank wrote: »

p.s. boggles if u are reading this plz dont respond, ur arguments are like that of a 12 yeaar old most of the time...

What's the text speak for irony?

Highsider

Could'nt be bothered reading through the last few pages but i get the general tone of it. It's pretty sad TBH. How anyone can suggest Utd don't get preferential treatment from referee's and the FA is laughable. You have to look no further than a view from the neutral fan and i have'nt talked to one yet who believes otherwise. That's not to say that from time to time Liverpool,Arsenal and Chelsea don't get things going there way but nothing to the extent of what Utd have enjoyed. Only realised there today when reading another forum that Utd went nine years woithout a penalty awarded againest them at OT. This is proof enough IMO.:mad:

Idu

mormank wrote: »

to say utd dont get the amount of penos they deserve is rubbish unless your saying that no teams get the amount of penoes they deserve but utd almost get the full amount they deserve whereas otherteams get nowhere near it..utd also dont give away as many penoes as they deserve..im sure of the exact stat but im pretty sure utd have given away one peno at old trafford in the 500 years or summit!!! you have more chance of winning the league than gettin a peno at old trafford..and dont waste ur time sayin its cos ye never committed a foul in the box cos that is simply wrong...

It's amazing to me how Liverpool fans can actually say stuff like this with a straight face. United get the majority of borderline decisions their way at home but so do Liverpool, so do most big clubs when they play at home.

To say its only united that benefit from generous refereeing at home is laughable

mormank

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

Yawn...

That was ages ago, get over it man!

i didnt bring it up dude. and i am over it, in fact i think that if we go on to win the league by a couple of points we can look back at masch gettin sent off in this fixture as a factor in it..we beat utd at anfield, masch wassuperb in this game, a performance which i believe had alot to do with his sending off, and if he didnt play so well we may not have won the game leading to a significant points swing in utds favour..

Idu

Highsider wrote: »

Only realised there today when reading another forum that Utd went nine years woithout a penalty awarded againest them at OT. This is proof enough IMO.:mad:

It's hard to concede penalties when 90% of your opposition have 10 men in their own half for most of the game. Teams rarely attack United at Old Trafford so it's understandable why a record could go for that long. Much more likely theory than any pro utd bias from refs

mormank

Unearthly wrote: »

What's the text speak for irony?

nice however i was referring to the content of his arguments and not to how he simply used short hand similar to what ALOT of ppl use in texts and not just 12 year olds...

Mitch Connor

janets_on_clubs wrote: »

It's hard to concede penalties when 90% of your opposition have 10 men in their own half for most of the game. Teams rarely attack United at Old Trafford so it's understandable why a record could go for that long. Much more likely theory than any pro utd bias from refs

I'm sure there were a few peno's that should have been given that weren't - it does add up to 171 games, at least, after all. However, there were probably as many penalties NOT given to United too.

Idu

Oh yeah definitely, I mean the penalty decision United didnt get at home to Portsmouth last year arguably cost them a shot at the treble again. I just meant that its not like United were having clear penalty shouts against them in all 171 matches

Vic Vinegar

mormank wrote: »

i didnt bring it up dude. and i am over it, in fact i think that if we go on to win the league by a couple of points we can look back at masch gettin sent off in this fixture as a factor in it..we beat utd at anfield, masch wassuperb in this game, a performance which i believe had alot to do with his sending off, and if he didnt play so well we may not have won the game leading to a significant points swing in utds favour..

United were really poor that day at Anfield anyway, even if Masch didn't play well, they still would have lost tbh. I see your point though.

Ruskie4Rent

SlickRic wrote: »

rooney is singled out, not necessarily because he's definitely the worst (though I struggle to think of anyone on a par, nevermind worse tbh), its because he is a high-profile player who always gets away with it. whether its because of favouritism, or people don't want to take the 'edge' off him, its excused because its him

Terry, Lampard, Ferdinand, Gallas, Ashley Cole, Drogba, Macherano, Beckham does it, Keane did it, Carragher's no saint, there's loads of high profile players that do it and sometimes get away with it.

I'm not saying they are as consistant as rooney, but refs are only going to make a decion in the the context of the game being played, not if he has been a regular offender in previos games. I think the referee should realise that players sometimes might have a right to feel slightly agreived by something that happens in a game, all he needs to do is wait till he calms down, then tell him to shut up and play the whistle.

Players are going to be at least twice as fired up as the fans, and given the amount of abuse directed at the ref from the fans when they disagree with a decision, the ref shouldn't be offended when the same happens from a player.

SlickRic

Ruskie4Rent wrote: »

Terry, Lampard, Ferdinand, Gallas, Ashley Cole, Drogba, Macherano, Beckham does it, Keane did it, Carragher's no saint, there's loads of high profile players that do it and sometimes get away with it.

I'm not saying they are as consistant as rooney, but refs are only going to make a decion in the the context of the game being played, not if he has been a regular offender in previos games. I think the referee should realise that players sometimes might have a right to feel slightly agreived by something that happens in a game, all he needs to do is wait till he calms down, then tell him to shut up and play the whistle.

Players are going to be at least twice as fired up as the fans, and given the amount of abuse directed at the ref from the fans when they disagree with a decision, the ref shouldn't be offended when the same happens from a player.

fair point about taking it within the context of a game and reputations should mean nothing. Couldn't agree more.

I just think rooney does it THAT often that it's natural he'll be scrutinised more. plus the random acts of violence (stamping, kicking) compound the disrespect he can show. The players listed don't exhibit the violence to even a tenth of the degree he does.

It happens once every other game with him (probably a slight exaggeration but its certainly happened on at least 4 or 5 occasions in the last month). sooner or later one of these singular incidents should be punished, not because its accumulated over matches but because it simply needs to be punished as an act in itself

same as it should be punished if any player commits the same acts

mormank

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

United were really poor that day at Anfield anyway, even if Masch didn't play well, they still would have lost tbh. I see your point though.

i dont think so. it was javiers tackle on giggs on the byline that directly led to our winner so i think itd wouldve been a draw without his superb performance..not tryin to be pedantic jus genuinely think this..

Boggles

mormank wrote: »

p.s. boggles if u are reading this plz dont respond, ur arguments are like that of a 12 yeaar old most of the time...

Bit mean, I havn't been near a PC in hours.

Jazzy

Deleted User wrote: »

Did you even read it? He took Benitez's "facts" and analysed them thoroughly. He didn't express opinion on them, he analysed them to see if they were valid claims.

Please read before commenting next time, cheers.

my point being that the facts are right, they are just hypocritical. the writer in question doesnt give the right reasons as to why rafa ranted... that is why its a poor piece and sensationalist. it tries to underly the depth of whats going on with simple black and white.

i can get smugger if u want, cheers

_blank_

Jazzy wrote: »

my point being that the facts are right, they are just hypocritical. the writer in question doesnt give the right reasons as to why rafa ranted... that is why its a poor piece and sensationalist. it tries to underly the depth of whats going on with simple black and white.

i can get smugger if u want, cheers

The piece in question has picked apart Rafa's Rant and exposed it for what it is.

A complete shambles consisting of unwarranted whinging and hot air.

It's not sensationalist in the slightest, in fact, Rafa was being more sensationalist with his amateur dramatics when he suddenly produced his "list" at the press conference and started going on about mind games and "facts".

Facts that have been disproved by the journalist.

Of course, if Liverpool fans are going to blindly take everything Rafa says as gospel, then nothing any journalist writes will convince them otherwise.

Well done for proving that.

copacetic

jeez, talk about your bitter immature rants :rolleyes:

DeadSkin

Haven't read most of the thread, but what I take from the 'mind games' is this part in Tony Barrett's piece from the Liverpool Echo today;

This is a massive season for Benitez but it is also huge for Ferguson because he knows that if he is to fulfil his ambition of knocking Liverpool off their "f***ing perch" this is the best chance he is ever likely to get.

Title success for Liverpool would leave the United boss needing three more of his own for his life's work to be complete and having reached pensionable age two years ago he knows the sands of time are against him.

Jazzy

Des wrote: »

Facts that have been disproved by the journalist.

he just says they are hypocritical.

dunno... cant really take a Utd supporters view of this all too seriously. i mean look at this one -

Boggles wrote:

made to look like a fúckíng idiot

sorry lads, but just because u really really want rafa to have lost the plot and are willing to jump on board with any old journalists doesnt make u right. last season yeah, the egg did land on rafas face when drogba knocked us out... but he was right to have a go at unstable drogba, look wat happend when the pressure got to him in the final.

make it as black and white as u want lads, whatever suits. sure isnt that the way here anyway

edit-

Des wrote:

Of course, if Liverpool fans are going to blindly take everything Rafa says as gospel, then nothing any journalist writes will convince them otherwise.

im not taking rafa's word as gospel. i am however looking beyond wat is actually being said and deep reading wat could possibly be going on behind the scenes. but sure, put a full stop where it suits. it is all OPINIONS after all