Benitez not happy with Fergie

Villain

Mr Alan wrote: »

why? its just an article-a journalists opinion.

i agree some of the things Rafa says were a tad hypocritical, i have no issue with that.

I believe the whole reason for Rafas conference was to let Mr Ferguson know that Liverpool are not there to be bullied. Dalglish was the last manager we had who wasnt afraid of Ferguson.

Rafa was showing that he isnt either, that Ferguson should stfu, cause Rafa will bite back.

Hence the reason when Fergie came out and called him disturbed yesterday, Rafa came out and questioned Gills conflict of interest due to his dual roles with the PL & Utd.... its Rafa saying, **** you ferguson, you keep talking about me and my club & i'll talk about you-some of wat i say may be ****e, but i'll point fingers and have the world and its mother watching your club like a hawk.

I for one am delighted about that. We may not win the league this year, but we are fighting for it. Utd fans at the start of the season wouldnt have said we'd be top now, yet we are. We are improving all the time & Rafa is just drawing a line in the sane imo.

*all managers talk ****e Des, Ferguson is the ****ing King of it, so dont be pretending Rafa is letting himself down or any such thing. I firmly believe referees are afraid of SAF and so do a lot of people, Rafa saying that is not a big deal....and the RESPECT campaign is a farce when Rooney is allowed carry on the way he does week in week out. Rafa made a series of very valid points & a couple of ones that were less valid, but i'm ****ing delighted he made every single one of them

But they don't all come to a press conference with "Fhacts" on a prepared piece of paper and keep stating they are facts when they obviously aren't?

_blank_

Des wrote: »

In fact, if you go to that match thread, it's as plain as day what was going on.

some quotes about said incident

mayordenis wrote: »

a for **** sake stupid ref ruining the game, nando booked for giving out about persistent fouling masch should shut up though.

kaisersose77 wrote: »

No suprise, i was gonna post a few minutes ago that he would get sent off by the end of the match

~Marky~ wrote: »

What is Mascherano after doing?? :mad:

deise59 wrote: »

Absolute stupidity from Mash, he's probably just lost liverpool the match

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

Can't blame the ref, Mascherano was a f*cking idiot there

mike65 wrote: »

Bennet started this chain of events to a degree with a stupid yellow for the first foul of the game. That does'nt excuse Masch though.

Mike.

ROCKMAN wrote: »

100% agreement
but you could see it coming , he was ranting and raving since the first yellow.

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

No excuse for that but if it was Gerrard/Rooney/Terry/Lamps I doubt they would have been off. Ref is certainly doing his part for united today.

kaisersose77 wrote: »

Mascherano was at it everytime a decision went against Liverpool. He's the last referee you should be doing that against and wont be suprised if he sends off more today. Torres will have to calm down aswell.

Necronomicon wrote: »

It was so needless though. It was a Liverpool free kick, what was Torres complaining about in the first place? Madness from Mascherano, you could see Alonso trying to restrain him.

Madness aside though, United have really grown into the game and imo deserve to be up going into half time. Reina is having a bit of a bad one.

Roar wrote: »

That was stupid from mascherano. but fair play to the referee. if more players were shown yellow cards for shouting and abusing referees, players would stop doing it. it's mascherano's own fault, he has no one to blame but himself

BastardPrince wrote: »

Masch and Torres are the only two pool players at the races in the first half, add the fact that the ref was giving nothing to the two of them must have really been winding them up. Stupid from Macsh, couldn't expect anything else but as said the two were hardly shouting at the ref.

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

Reina is so dodgey! We need to work him more.

Mascherano might have crippled Liverpool, most refs wouldnt have sent him off but surley EVERYONE knows that Steve Bennett is just a dickhead, i knew after 11mins that Masch was getting sent off.

Aurelio has really impressed me today.

ntlbell wrote: »

big passion? Are you Andy gray?

The ref gave a free kick FOR the pool masch is moaning about something that has nothing to do with him at all.

use the passion to work your feet not your mouth

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

Andy Gray is right, the ref is a joke. The yellow for Torres was a disgrace. Mash was silly for giving descent, but hardly worth sending him off for it.

adox wrote: »

I think the fact that Mascherano was in Bennets face after every decision led to the sending off.

He was stupid and deserved to go.

Mr Alan

Villain wrote: »

But they don't all come to a press conference with "Fhacts" on a prepared piece of paper and keep stating they are facts when they obviously aren't?

Mitchs article was working under the assumption Rafa was talking about this season, he was talking about every season since he's been here.

Des wrote: »

some quotes about said incident

no one is arguing that mascherano shouldnt have been sent off.

just that Rooney constantly gets away with the same thing inexplicably.

Spud83

Mr Alan wrote: »

Mitchs article was working under the assumption Rafa was talking about this season, he was talking about every season since he's been here.



no one is arguing that mascherano shouldnt have been sent off.

just that Rooney constantly gets away with the same thing inexplicably.

Not inexplicably.

He is an English international.

PHB

Villain wrote: »

But they don't all come to a press conference with "Fhacts" on a prepared piece of paper and keep stating they are facts when they obviously aren't?

No, but they are in the school of online posting which after every statement people say FACT. And does anyone here respect those people?

_blank_

alanmurphy83 wrote: »

Not inexplicably.

He is an English international.

Exactly.

Mr Alan

alanmurphy83 wrote: »

Not inexplicably.

He is an English international.

Des wrote: »

Exactly.

so you can sign up for one conspiracy theory but not another?

why not say he is an England international who always plays under Alex Ferguson.....this imo, is wat makes him near untouchable to refs.

jaykay74

Mr Alan wrote: »

We are improving all the time & Rafa is just drawing a line in the sane imo.

Rafa is just doing a what now :pac::pac:

Mitch Connor

Mr Alan wrote: »

so you can sign up for one conspiracy theory but not another?

why not say he is an England international who always plays under Alex Ferguson.....this imo, is wat makes him near untouchable to refs.

how many times did he get sent off for similar at Everton? Its the same way Gerrard has got away with lots in his career. The same way Terry gets away with being a second goalkeeper (did it again yesterday). Same way Shearer got away with kicking Lennon in the head. The english golden boys don't get the same treatment.

astrofool

You've got to wonder if Terry practices those star jumps on the training field.

SlickRic

rooney's behaviour is on a different level to anyone else's though (bar cole in that incident last season when he turned his back on the ref). even terry doesn't dish out that level of abuse.

it's not excusable in any shape or form, even in moderation, but the slack given to rooney yesterday was mind-boggling.

lose ball to bosingwa, kick him violently for no reason other than he lost out, get blown up for it, reprimand the ref repeatedly, walk away, not come back when asked, still moan while again being reprimanded.

masch deserved to be sent off last season, but this was on another level. my feeling is (and this is only a feeling of course), is that the ref bottled it at old trafford in one of the biggest games of the season.

also, i get the feeling refs might take into account, wrongly, his naturally fiery demeanour. the fact his actions are in keeping with his general attitude to how he plays the game, refs i believe will be more lenient. as opposed to a giggs or fabregas doing it. With them it would be more out of character and maybe viewed as a more purely violent outburst

it's like the school messer getting away with lots more than the good boy who might step out of line once his whole life

Mr Alan

SlickRic wrote: »

rooney's behaviour is on a different level to anyone else's though (bar cole in that incident last season when he turned his back on the ref).

also worth noting the furore over Coles (England internationals) behaviour last year-one of the reasons the RESPECT campaign came about afaik as opposed to the wall of silence which meets Rooneys constant dissent and aggressive violent outbursts.

jesus_thats_gre

Mr Alan wrote: »

also worth noting the furore over Coles (England internationals) behaviour last year-one of the reasons the RESPECT campaign came about afaik as opposed to the wall of silence which meets Rooneys constant dissent and aggressive violent outbursts.

Bringing up the Masch argument again is pointless but the incident with Ashley Cole the week beforehand had a big part to play in Mascherano being sent off.

By the letter of the law, the ref was right to send him off but you can't help but wonder if it would have happened if Cole didn't get away with what he did the week before.

Mitch Connor

SlickRic wrote: »

lose ball to bosingwa, kick him violently for no reason other than he lost out,

He felt Bosingwa elbowed/through an arm in his face, fouling him, to stop ronney getting past him. His behaviour is not excusable, but he would probably say he didn't kick out simply because he lost out - but because he was fouled.

SlickRic

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Bringing up the Masch argument again is pointless but the incident with Ashley Cole the week beforehand had a big part to play in Mascherano being sent off.

By the letter of the law, the ref was right to send him off but you can't help but wonder if it would have happened if Cole didn't get away with what he did the week before.

true, and while its a good point it is a moot one in the grand scheme of things. the fact is it is in place, should always have been, and yet mr rooney still gets away with it.

nevermind kicking an opponent with no provocation

Mr Alan

Mitch Connor wrote: »

He felt Bosingwa elbowed/through an arm in his face, fouling him, to stop ronney getting past him. His behaviour is not excusable, but he would probably say he didn't kick out simply because he lost out - but because he was fouled.

its funny, cause the bit in italics above, you say his behavious is not excusable. then in the bits in bold, you make excuses for it

SlickRic

Mitch Connor wrote: »

He felt Bosingwa elbowed/through an arm in his face, fouling him, to stop ronney getting past him. His behaviour is not excusable, but he would probably say he didn't kick out simply because he lost out - but because he was fouled.

i see your point, but i don't buy it for a second. There's no way he thought bosingwa elbowed him. arms are used all the time and players know when they're actually being elbowed.

rooney always hits out when he loses the ball, always. it's not because he thinks he is fouled. Look at any number of games to see proof of this

jaykay74

Mr Alan wrote: »

its funny, cause the bit in italics above, you say his behavious is not excusable. then in the bits in bold, you make excuses for it

Is excusing the same as explaining

helimachoptor

Mr Alan wrote: »

Giggs behaved impeccably with the linesman, he respectfully spoke to him. Giggs is a model pro.= and a great example of how players should behave.

Rooney ran at him like a gargoyle on acid and screamed at him for a minute before walking away throwing his arms about like the spoilt child he is.

Mr Alan.. cracking quote there!

As a United fan I would agree Rooney went f**king mental at the linesman at one stage I thought Giggs was going to have to pull him away from the linesman.

Ok it was a bad decision, I watched the replay and it took me a minute to see what had happened. Best way to deal with that situation is not to go nuts at the ref/linesman get the ball and stick it in the net (which is what happened) Rooney needs to calm down when approaching officials.

I really think the rugby way of just the captain being allowed speak is the way forward for all teams.

Mitch Connor

Mr Alan wrote: »

its funny, cause the bit in italics above, you say his behavious is not excusable. then in the bits in bold, you make excuses for it

Thought your grasp of english was better than that.

I didn't say what i think are his justifications for his response were an acceptable excuse for that response. Did I?

Mr. Presentable

Mitch Connor wrote: »

He felt Bosingwa elbowed/through an arm in his face, fouling him, to stop ronney getting past him. His behaviour is not excusable, but he would probably say he didn't kick out simply because he lost out - but because he was fouled.

I think all are agreed such behaviour is inexcusable. It matters not what reason he might or might not give.

So why did the referee excuse it?

SlickRic

nipplenuts wrote: »

I think all are agreed such behaviour is inexcusable. It matters not what reason he might or might not give.

So why did the referee excuse it?

that's what we're trying to work out!

rooney's hot headed rep means he gets leeway? is he an untouchable england goldenboy? alex ferguson's influence? big decision in a big game? old trafford intimidated him?

it must be one of the above because he saw it along with rooney reaction afterwards. if he saw it and came to the conclusion that it was within the rules of the game then...well...

Mr Alan

Tauren:yes i think you were trying to make excuses for it. Why else would you make up reasons for him to snap?

He felt Bosingwa elbowed/through an arm in his face, fouling him, to stop ronney getting past him.

how do you possibly know this unless he told you?

His behaviour is not excusable, but he would probably say he didn't kick out simply because he lost out - but because he was fouled.

the very fact that you even say, "his behaviour is not excusable, but" further leads me to believe, that perhaps subconsciously, you were trying to make excuses for Rooneys unacceptable behaviour.

Mr Alan

Mr Alan wrote: »

Tauren:yes i think you were trying to make excuses for it. Why else would you make up reasons for him to snap?



how do you possibly know this unless he told you?

It's quite obvious really. He ran all the way back, won the ball well only to have Bosingwa illegally get his body between Rooney and the ball, which the ref didn't punish. i highly doubt there was any other reason for it unless Webb made a move on Colleen before the game, which I doubt, and Rooney was letting him have it. Let's not get too technical here. It was clear to see that was what was annoying him.

jesus_thats_gre

Can we stop arguing bull**** unless someone can bring new information into it.. I can tolerate the bull**** when someone is at least trying to use stats but this has become a joke.

mormank

Dave! wrote: »

Not an OFFICIAL request?! :eek:

haha. nice. i was clearly not seriously makin this request. if i was serious i would pm a mod. nice to know if i was askin that a mod is allowed just take the piss outa me...i was worried that i would never mod anything cos i would take the piss alot..assures me to know id be allowed

SlickRic

Deleted User wrote: »

It's quite obvious really. He ran all the way back, won the ball well only to have Bosingwa illegally get his body between Rooney and the ball, which the ref didn't punish. i highly doubt there was any other reason for it unless Webb made a move on Colleen before the game, which I doubt, and Rooney was letting him have it. Let's not get too technical here. It was clear to see that was what was annoying him.

sorry, but how was it illegal?

and he's made these reactions before when he's lost the ball. so it's no excuse for it.

correction, there's no excuse anyway. even if it was illegal, bosingwa's attempts to get the ball didnt warrant a violent kick to the leg.

Jazzy

PHB wrote: »

As for this being a sign of Benetiz cracking. It was a weird comment. But I don't think its why United beat Chelsea, and I don't think its why Liverpool drew with stoke. It's just an easiest explanation than Liverpools attack lacks some potency and Chelsea's defending leaves much to be desired. Also, it's more fun. That said, his following comments about Gill are pretty weird, so maybe he is cracking. But I really can't see Rafa cracking under pressure personally, he seems too chillaxed for it. I think he's just distracting attention from his teams inadequcies, something that Fergie has been doing for years, something Mourinho loves to do.

PHB - Bag piping fact into news

pretty much spot on

Mr Alan

PHB wrote:

That said, his following comments about Gill are pretty weird, so maybe he is cracking. But I really can't see Rafa cracking under pressure personally, he seems too chillaxed for it.

you're right, Rafa wont crack, as much as Utd fans like to pretend he has.

the comments re:Gill today imo were because of Fergusons response yesterday when labelled him disturbed...the whole point of the press conference was for Rafa to show he is not afraid to engage Ferguson, Rafa speaking out again was Rafa saying-talk about me all ya want, i aint afraid of you & i'll give as good as i get.

Mitch Connor

Mr Alan wrote: »

Tauren:yes i think you were trying to make excuses for it. Why else would you make up reasons for him to snap?



how do you possibly know this unless he told you?



the very fact that you even say, "his behaviour is not excusable, but" further leads me to believe, that perhaps subconsciously, you were trying to make excuses for Rooneys unacceptable behaviour.

The elbowing gestures rooney made... it was a hint. Don't call me a liar Al.