EU legislation will allow authorities search your PC remotly without a warrent.

Terry · 05-01-2009 4:08pm

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Would you let the authorities into your house and rummage through your filing cabinet and personal belongings including letters etc without a warrent?

Yes.
I've nothing to hide.
Do you?

lisbon_lions · 05-01-2009 4:16pm

Im glad some people have no issue with this, thats great.

What if you have a 14 yo daughter - you are quite happy for some middle aged men to trace through her emails and check her browsing history then so?
Well good for you, thats great.

Danbo! · 05-01-2009 4:17pm

Stekelly wrote: »

If anything they'd probably just find some stuff for you that you thought you'd lost.

Actually I did mislay my plans to overthrow the government, and my documents with solid proof of the existence of the NWO.

Danbo! · 05-01-2009 4:18pm

lisbon_lions wrote: »

What if you have a 14 yo daughter - you are quite happy for some middle aged men to trace through her emails and check her browsing history then so?
Well good for you, thats great.

:rolleyes: I would assume, if I had a 14 yo daughter, that she would be looking at bebo or chatting on MSN, wheres the problem?

Ciaran500 · 05-01-2009 4:19pm

<3BeingIN6th wrote: »

Yes.
I've nothing to hide.
Do you?

I'm starting to think he does. I remember one of his threads was complaing that they were putting a limit on moving large amounts of undeclared money across borders.

LEIN · 05-01-2009 4:20pm

lisbon_lions wrote: »

What if you have a 14 yo daughter - you are quite happy for some middle aged men to trace through her emails and check her browsing history then so?

I think that is the reason that its been set up. To protect the children.

dade · 05-01-2009 4:22pm

MackDeToaster wrote: »

witness Gordon Brown shutting down Icelandic banks using anti-terrorist legislation of all things, or anti-terrorist legislation being used by county councils to see who's trying to get their kids into schools in different boroughs .

got any links to these incidents

CreepingDeath · 05-01-2009 4:28pm

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

According to a London Times report, the police hacking process, called "remote searching," enables law enforcement to gather information from e-mails, instant messages and Web browsers, even while hundreds of miles away.

UK "security services" have been allowed to intercept e-mail since 2000. Linky

Sure weren't they scanning all phones, faxes and e-mails on Ireland for years during the troubles ? Can't find the link, but fairly sure it was well documented.

MackDeToaster · 05-01-2009 4:31pm

<3BeingIN6th wrote: »

Yes.
I've nothing to hide.
Do you?

I am honestly at a loss to understand this

All I can think of is that you have full faith that the state is 100% benevolent and that it will remain forever so?

I have nothing to hide either, but I need just look at repressive states around the world and even experiences in Donegal to see that this is wishful thinking and as far as I'm concerned this would be a step too far.

I also think that it's completely and utterly futile as any serious criminals will of course be well aware of it and simply go offline, use encryption, vpn, etc etc. Which begs the question, what ultimately is the point ?

thelordofcheese · 05-01-2009 4:35pm

lisbon_lions wrote: »

What if you have a 14 yo daughter - you are quite happy for some middle aged men to trace through her emails and check her browsing history then so?

I know you're trying to phrase this in a super sinister way; young girl, middle aged man, THE INTERNET, but really what exactly would you see as the problem here?

Terry · 05-01-2009 4:36pm

CreepingDeath wrote: »

UK "security services" have been allowed to intercept e-mail since 2000. Linky

Sure weren't they scanning all phones, faxes and e-mails on Ireland for years during the troubles ? Can't find the link, but fairly sure it was well documented.

Now that you mention it, I do remember a few instances where they were monitoring IRA mobile phone calls. Wouold have been in the 088 days. Not GSM, the previous one.

They also monitored British roayls and leaked information about prince Charles wanting to be a tampon. That may have been the press though. My memory is hazy.

At the end of the day, if you have nothing to hide then you have nothing to worry about.

Abusing bittorrent? Me? Let them come and get me.
I'll go back to blank tapes if needs be.

Ckal · 05-01-2009 4:36pm

<3BeingIN6th wrote: »

Yes.
I've nothing to hide.
Do you?

Every person in the world has a right to privacy. Whether they are hiding something or not, this right is being denied.

Terry · 05-01-2009 4:38pm

MackDeToaster wrote: »

I am honestly at a loss to understand this All I can think of is that you have full faith that the state is 100% benevolent and that it will remain forever so?

I have nothing to hide either, but I need just look at repressive states around the world and even experiences in Donegal to see that this is wishful thinking and as far as I'm concerned this would be a step too far.

I also think that it's completely and utterly futile as any serious criminals will of course be well aware of it and simply go offline, use encryption, vpn, etc etc. Which begs the question, what ultimately is the point ?

The point?
The creation of more IT jobs of course.

ejmaztec · 05-01-2009 4:40pm

CreepingDeath wrote: »

UK "security services" have been allowed to intercept e-mail since 2000. Linky

Sure weren't they scanning all phones, faxes and e-mails on Ireland for years during the troubles ? Can't find the link, but fairly sure it was well documented.

Yep, GCHQ in Cheltenham had access to all ROI phones - and still do, I believe.

CreepingDeath · 05-01-2009 4:42pm

MackDeToaster wrote: »

I also think that it's completely and utterly futile as any serious criminals will of course be well aware of it and simply go offline, use encryption, vpn, etc etc. Which begs the question, what ultimately is the point ?

To make it more difficult for terrorists and criminals to communicate.
If someone uses strong encryption, then they might get special attention.

Your right though, serious criminals probably already use advanced encryption. Assuming the security services don't have some secret quantum computer to break all existing encryption methods already.
Which wouldn't exactly surprise me.... look at Colusus in World War II, it broke the German enigma codes and was probably 20-30 years ahead of its time.

Sure people think todays encyption is safe.... it's only safe today because current computers would take hundreds of years to crack the codes by brute force.
In 10 years time they will easily be broken.
So, if the security services were patient, they could store all encrypted messages they intercept until such time as they could break them.

You'll have to wait until NTL roll out a quantum encryption network for home users for decent privacy !

faceman · 05-01-2009 4:43pm

Wow, id love some high flying security or secret service agent to have a cool file on me with a big TOP SECRET spread across the top of it in red ink. That would be cool.

although id imagine my file will probably look something more like this:

Subject: IRL-4,564,123
Result: Spends far to much time on boards.ie
Threat level: Swears alot

CreepingDeath · 05-01-2009 4:45pm

faceman wrote: »

Wow, id love some high flying security or secret service agent to have a cool file on me with a big TOP SECRET spread across the top of it in red ink.

There's an idea... make a few red coloured TOP SECRET folders and leave them on the trains and buses for people to find

Wreck · 05-01-2009 4:49pm

I kinda agree with RTDH on this one (there's a first) - this kind of action should definetely require a warrant, the procedure should be exactly the same as getting a warant to search a house etc.

How are they going to do this though? Do the police in the UK have some kind of super secret hacker training college? Cause as far as I am aware, it's actually pretty dificult to do something like this.

parsi · 05-01-2009 4:55pm

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

A new edict by the European Union's council of ministers in Brussels has paved the way for international law enforcement agencies to begin remote searching and sharing the information with each other.

Any chance of a link to the "edict" ?

Donald-Duck · 05-01-2009 5:00pm

MackDeToaster wrote: »

I am honestly at a loss to understand this All I can think of is that you have full faith that the state is 100% benevolent and that it will remain forever so?

I have nothing to hide either, but I need just look at repressive states around the world and even experiences in Donegal to see that this is wishful thinking and as far as I'm concerned this would be a step too far.

I also think that it's completely and utterly futile as any serious criminals will of course be well aware of it and simply go offline, use encryption, vpn, etc etc. Which begs the question, what ultimately is the point ?

Actually, you'd be suprised at how many people were caught by using their mobile friend to call another person to plan such and such a thing

lisbon_lions · 05-01-2009 5:11pm

thelordofcheese wrote: »

I know you're trying to phrase this in a super sinister way; young girl, middle aged man, THE INTERNET, but really what exactly would you see as the problem here?

I dont know, maybe the possibility to identify the whereabouts of a teenage daughter based on her chats with friends online, being available to unknowns or crooked coppers - might start ringing alarm bells in your head no?

CreepingDeath · 05-01-2009 5:12pm

Wreck wrote: »

How are they going to do this though? Do the police in the UK have some kind of super secret hacker training college? Cause as far as I am aware, it's actually pretty dificult to do something like this.

There's plenty of conspiracy theories that certain governments forced communication companies to give them access, so they can intercept all communications.

In which case, they're scanning through all the communications between you and any internet machine ( e-mail server, DNS server, internet proxy server ).

Also, if I wanted to intercept all HTTPS encrypted traffic I'd demand all the private certificates from the internet certificate providers which would let me read most of the traffic in a "man in the middle" attack.

Hacking an individual PC... who knows, they could have backdoors for Microsoft software. There's plenty of conspiracy theories out there on what they could do.

The easiest way is probably to park a conspicuous white van with blacked out windows outside your house and try hacking into your wireless router.

Cow Moolester · 05-01-2009 5:18pm

Wreck wrote: »

I kinda agree with RTDH on this one (there's a first) - this kind of action should definetely require a warrant, the procedure should be exactly the same as getting a warant to search a house etc.

How are they going to do this though? Do the police in the UK have some kind of super secret hacker training college? Cause as far as I am aware, it's actually pretty dificult to do something like this.

I read about it in an article. There are pretty much only 2 ways they will do this:
1) Park outside your house and access your computer through the wireless network
2) Send you an e-mail with a virus attachment. Once you download it, it will give them access to your computer.

I also sort of agree with RTDH on this...too far a step IMO. I have nothing to hide but that still doesn't give anyone any permission to search through my stuff. That's pretty much your privacy thrown out the window.

Wreck · 05-01-2009 5:24pm

CreepingDeath wrote: »

There's plenty of conspiracy theories that certain governments forced communication companies to give them access, so they can intercept all communications.

In which case, they're scanning through all the communications between you and any internet machine ( e-mail server, DNS server, internet proxy server ).

Also, if I wanted to intercept all HTTPS encrypted traffic I'd demand all the private certificates from the internet certificate providers which would let me read most of the traffic in a "man in the middle" attack.

Well that's how I would have thought they would do it, by going to the ISP and tracking things that way, but this article is talking about them remotely accessing hard drives.

CreepingDeath wrote: »

Hacking an individual PC... who knows, they could have backdoors for Microsoft software. There's plenty of conspiracy theories out there on what they could do.

The easiest way is probably to park a conspicuous white van with blacked out windows outside your house and try hacking into your wireless router.

If there are backdoors in Microsoft software, I'm pretty sure criminal hackers would be using them way before police forces ever got a chance.

thelordofcheese · 05-01-2009 5:32pm

lisbon_lions wrote: »

I dont know, maybe the possibility to identify the whereabouts of a teenage daughter based on her chats with friends online, being available to unknowns or crooked coppers - might start ringing alarm bells in your head no?

Oh, right. It's rampant scaremongering time.
Excellent.

Firstly, why is this 'teenage daughter' so important? Why should her privacy be more sacred than anyone elses? Either you make the point that it encroaches everybodies privacy and we should be worried about that, or nothing.
Fuck this tabloid bullshit.

Second, why are you hellbent on making the connection between law enforcement officers and paedophiles and rapists. It's cheap, nasty and insulting to anyone who's able to think.

basically what you've posted is just a variant on this.

BaconZombie · 05-01-2009 5:33pm

There are A LOT of other ways of doing this that do not involve any human interaction on your side.

An encryption can be broken if you have enough processing power and time, but normal it does not need that much because people use weak passwords and normally reused then over and over again.

The right to privacy is something that EVERY human is entitled, this is another slip down a VERY slippery slope and will be hard if not impossible to recover from very soon.

Cow Moolester wrote: »

I read about it in an article. There are pretty much only 2 ways they will do this:
1) Park outside your house and access your computer through the wireless network
2) Send you an e-mail with a virus attachment. Once you download it, it will give them access to your computer.

I also sort of agree with RTDH on this...too far a step IMO. I have nothing to hide but that still doesn't give anyone any permission to search through my stuff. That's pretty much your privacy thrown out the window.

cornbb · 05-01-2009 5:43pm

I'm surprised and dismayed that so many people don't seem to give a sh*t about their right to privacy.

LEIN · 05-01-2009 5:49pm

cornbb wrote: »

I'm surprised and dismayed that so many people don't seem to give a sh*t about their right to privacy.

If it really happens then attitudes will change but its a laugh atm looking at the posts some people are coming out with. It is AH after all!

lisbon_lions · 05-01-2009 5:53pm

thelordofcheese wrote: »

Oh, right. It's rampant scaremongering time.
Excellent.

Firstly, why is this 'teenage daughter' so important? Why should her privacy be more sacred than anyone elses? Either you make the point that it encroaches everybodies privacy and we should be worried about that, or nothing.
Fuck this tabloid bullshit.

Second, why are you hellbent on making the connection between law enforcement officers and paedophiles and rapists. It's cheap, nasty and insulting to anyone who's able to think.

basically what you've posted is just a variant on this.

Absolute bollox, the scenario I offered was by way of example - call it tabloid if you may but the reality is that such an individuals privacy is at risk here, be they 14 or 84.

Moving onto your 2nd observation, there are unscruplous people out there in every profession, and do I hope your ability to think affords you this.

Unfortunately your propensity to think does not go sufficiently far enought to see that your right to privacy is being eroded.

Run_to_da_hills · 05-01-2009 6:01pm

<3BeingIN6th wrote: »

Yes.
I've nothing to hide.
Do you?

Do your or your kids have any unauthorized downloads? Mp3s, movies or material from torrent sites? A French proposal last year sought an internet ban for up to six months on individuals caught wilh illegal material on their PC.

The Authorities will set up "search robots" just like a Google search engine that will track PC's that are downloading unauthorized material. They can then hack into the HDD of any offending PC and use is as evidence in a prosecution. None of this can be fully effective until the EU enforces registered administration access which i can see is only around the corner.

EU legislation will allow authorities search your PC remotly without a warrent.

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