Munster v Ulster at Thomond Park, predictions anyone?

barnesd

Goose81 wrote: »

The only ulster players that should start are ferris,best,wallace and maybe humphreys for the easier games.

Talk of anyone else is stupid.

Darren Cave has shown he can play centre but I would still rate earls and fitz as a far higher talents and would much prefer to see Earls in there if fitz is to be moved to the wing.Also Bod is playing alot better this year and will not and should not be dropped.

I wouldnt even warrant Cave a bench spot tbh,he isnt versatile at all like the other two and unlike earls he is playing his position of choice regularily and unlike fitz he is allowed to play rugby,gaffney is trying his best to make sure fitz doesnt nail that 13 or 12 spot.

If Earls was performing as Cave is in the centre the hype machine would have gone into overdrive, messageboards would be going nuts and papers would be calling for him to be starting in the 6N. Cave is a massive talent, and like I said if Fitz is worth a start in the centre Cave would be too. I stand by that.

thehighground

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

First of all we are not going to get a grand slam under O'Gara on current form anyway. Humphreys is playing better therefore we have more of a chance of winning a grandslam under him. Secondly to not drop a player because he could go on a Lions tour when he is playing poorly is ridiculous you play the best players avaliable to win the current objective or you experiment this isn't a charity.

Secondly to those including BOD alongside ROG,Dempsey,Stringer and DOC get a grip hes top try scorer in the Heineken Cup and is the most in form centre in Europe right now. Its funny how in Britain people are talking of him being a shoe in for Lions captaincy (See Sky Poll, Sky Pundits, English rugby pundits etc.) yet in Ireland people are saying he should be dropped, unbelievable.

I hate to break it to you, but the Sky pundits have dropped BOD from their listing for the Lions. ROG, POC & David Wallace are the only Irish players to be included at the moment

POC heads the popular vote on Sky for Lions Captain (BOD is second though).

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,12050_4650513,00.html

As for Planet Rugby - the entire Munster pack plus ROG & Earls are in the "pack your bag" sections. BOD has been dropped to 'Standby'.

http://www.planetrugby.com/Story/0,18259,3819_4099600,00.html

Presumably since you have used these pundits/sources to back up your argument, they are still valid.

As for the bolded part - please read my post again - I specifically said if the older player deserved their place on form.

If you don't operate on form, and apart from it being wrong to discrimate on age, what does that say to the younger players - they don't even have to try and they get an international cap!

thehighground

barnesd wrote: »

If Earls was performing as Cave is in the centre the hype machine would have gone into overdrive, messageboards would be going nuts and papers would be calling for him to be starting in the 6N. Cave is a massive talent, and like I said if Fitz is worth a start in the centre Cave would be too. I stand by that.

Wasn't Earls moved to the wing for the Churchill Cup to accommodate Cave in the centre. Is that because Earls is more versatile or Cave is regarded as the better player?

TBF, Munster Rugby/Kidney have kept a lid on the hype machine by keeping Earls out of the media as much as possible. I presume Williams is doing the same for Cave.

Goose81

thehighground wrote: »

I hate to break it to you, but the Sky pundits have dropped BOD from their listing for the Lions. ROG, POC & David Wallace are the only Irish players to be included at the moment

POC heads the popular vote on Sky for Lions Captain (BOD is second though).

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,12050_4650513,00.html

As for Planet Rugby - the entire Munster pack plus ROG & Earls are in the "pack your bag" sections. BOD has been dropped to 'Standby'.

http://www.planetrugby.com/Story/0,18259,3819_4099600,00.html

Presumably since you have used these pundits/sources to back up your argument, they are still valid.

As for the bolded part - please read my post again - I specifically said if the older player deserved their place on form.

If you don't operate on form, and apart from it being wrong to discrimate on age, what does that say to the younger players - they don't even have to try and they get an international cap!

As of the last round of the Heineken cup Bod was the form 13 in Europe.He has played little since.Sky sports dont know their arse from their elbow.Im not even gona bother reading the links but im sure they are also ful of English players that have done nothing to warrant a spot.

edit,I had to read it,curiosity got the better.Il tell you what if Mcgeechan brings Jamie Robinson ahead of Bod I will give you 50 bills.

barnesd wrote: »

If Earls was performing as Cave is in the centre the hype machine would have gone into overdrive, messageboards would be going nuts and papers would be calling for him to be starting in the 6N. Cave is a massive talent, and like I said if Fitz is worth a start in the centre Cave would be too. I stand by that.

Earls hasnt got a run in the centre anywhere near as much as Cave.Im not saying Earls should go 13 im saying I would opt to pick him ahead of Cave there,because from what I have seen of both Earls has more natural talent and will be a better player,as will Fitz who hasnt been allowed to play rugby this season .

Erin Go Brath

Absolutely woeful stuff from Munster. I know it wasn't our strongest team, but shockingly bad performances allround nonetheless.
Its good (from an Ireland perspective) to see Ulster getting it together these days. They have improved beyond recognition in the last 3-4 months, and a few of their players will be edging close to an Ireland start during the 6 Nations i would feel.

With regards the injuries to O'Gara and others. Ireland desperately need to blood new players and a new number 10 is a priority this season, so an opportunity for Humphries or Keatley to be thrown into a start is a good thing.

Brewster

barnesd wrote: »

If Earls was performing as Cave is in the centre the hype machine would have gone into overdrive, messageboards would be going nuts and papers would be calling for him to be starting in the 6N. Cave is a massive talent, and like I said if Fitz is worth a start in the centre Cave would be too. I stand by that.

I would agree with this..... However, dont think Cave should be starting for Ireland yet. Ireland's best backline taking a balanced approach between form and experience, which you must do, is:

Redden
O Gara
Trimble
Wallace
O Driscoll
Bowe
Kearney

buck65

Wallace and Trimble and Bowe?
Wow - the earth shudders

Brewster

buck65 wrote: »

Wallace and Trimble and Bowe?
Wow - the earth shudders

Do I detect a touch of sarcasm in your posting?!

Not really sure how to respond to your posting? Bowe is currently in posession of 14 shirt and is doing very well at Ospreys. Dont think his position is under threat in the Irish set up? He is the man in posession and I dont believe there are better alternatives. Horgan, Murphy, Fitzgerald maybe?? Not for me...

Paddy Wallace is the only genuine no. 12 we have in the country. He has enough pace to play at 12, he can kick, he can pass, he has a good rugby brain and I think he could bring the best out of Drico. Paddy is a very elusive runner, is playing super stuff for Ulster in the 12 shirt and theres not a better player in the position. Who are alternatives? Earls? Horgan? Fitzgerald? No thanks. Its a no brainer. Forget about the Paddy Wallace of two years ago, not good enough for Ireland stuff. He wasnt then, now he most definitely is.

Andrew Trimble is in the form of his life, playing with renewed confidence. He is consistently playing left wing for Ulster and has learned how to play that position. In years gone by, he was playing centre for Ulster yet was being asked to play out of position on wing for Ireland which was unfair to the lad. Now he developed the tacking skills and positional sense to play on the wing. He is as strong as an ox and I think Ireland should look to play him as a winger with the option of playing him centre if needs be. I am thinking towards 2011 here. I believe Earls will push Trimble all the way here for this position, but just for experience I would plump for Trimble at the moment.

You would obviously pick a different backline, but ive given the reasons behind my selections.

Kearney has to be fullback, we must look to develop him in this position. However, as you didnt refer to him in your earth shuddering statement I am asssuming you agree with me on this!

Amazotheamazing

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

Secondly to those including BOD alongside ROG,Dempsey,Stringer and DOC get a grip hes top try scorer in the Heineken Cup and is the most in form centre in Europe right now. Its funny how in Britain people are talking of him being a shoe in for Lions captaincy (See Sky Poll, Sky Pundits, English rugby pundits etc.) yet in Ireland people are saying he should be dropped, unbelievable.

It's not unbelievable, it simply shows people in Ireland see more of him than people in England do.

BOD is nowhere near his best.

daveharnett

I have yet to see Hurley catch a difficult high ball in any match. How the guy is considered a full back baffles me.
Hayes got mullered in the scrums.
Lewis, like Earls looks well short of the finished article.
Howlett wasn't at the races at all.
Work rate was way below par. Horan and Fla spent most of the game hiding on the wing. Even the two Donnachas were quiet by their standards.


More disturbing than all of the above, Munster looked totally rudderless without O Connell and O Gara - no decision making, no plan B, no composure. If both were on the pitch, I would still have backed Munster 50 minutes in. Without them, we hadn't a prayer.

Have we had a worse home result in the professional era? I can't think of one.
Big challenges ahead - both competitions are in the balance over the next two weeks. We have beaten better teams with worse players, but not with the mentality we showed on Saturday.

premierstone

daveharnett wrote: »

Work rate was way below par. Horan and Fla spent most of the game hiding on the wing. Even the two Donnachas were quiet by their standards.

:D Not sure what game you were watching

thehighground

Goose81 wrote: »

As of the last round of the Heineken cup Bod was the form 13 in Europe.He has played little since.Sky sports dont know their arse from their elbow.Im not even gona bother reading the links but im sure they are also ful of English players that have done nothing to warrant a spot.

edit,I had to read it,curiosity got the better.Il tell you what if Mcgeechan brings Jamie Robinson ahead of Bod I will give you 50 bills.

Those in-form for the Lions were taken just after the last HCup rounds. It was RugbyFanatic who referenced British pundits to back up his theory that BOD is the best Centre in the world. I personally don't think they mean too much at this stage (particularly the Planet Rugby one which nearly has the entire (eligible) Munster team as certainties to travel with the Lions next summer (with a few Welsh players)

Goose81

thehighground wrote: »

Those in-form for the Lions were taken just after the last HCup rounds. It was RugbyFanatic who referenced British pundits to back up his theory that BOD is the best Centre in the world. I personally don't think they mean too much at this stage (particularly the Planet Rugby one which nearly has the entire (eligible) Munster team as certainties to travel with the Lions next summer (with a few Welsh players)

TBh I can see POC,DOC,O'Gara,O'Driscoll,Kearney and maybe Murphy,D Wallace,Ferris and Bowe going from ireland.Before they have slightly dipped in form I would have included fitz and earls as surprise inclusions.

I can also see the selection having alot of political calls for English players not deserving.They need to sell jerseys and England is the biggest market.

If the team is picked fairly it will be made up of roughly 60% welsh 30% Irish and 10% English and Scottish,that wont happen though.

Stev_o

Goose81 wrote: »

TBh I can see POC,DOC,O'Gara,O'Driscoll,Kearney and maybe Murphy,D Wallace and Bowe going from ireland.Before they have slightly dipped in form I would have included fitz and earls as surprise inclusions.

I can also see the selection having alot of political calls for English players not deserving.They need to sell jerseys and England is the biggest market.

If the team is picked fairly it will be made up of roughly 60% welsh 30% Irish and 10% English and Scottish,that wont happen though.

Considering out of all the coaching staff there is so far one English man its unlikely. Based on AI it would be 50/50 Welsh Scottish given their performance. Since we havent played SA its just a lucky dip which of our players will get picked.

RugbyFanatic

thehighground wrote: »

I hate to break it to you, but the Sky pundits have dropped BOD from their listing for the Lions. ROG, POC & David Wallace are the only Irish players to be included at the moment

Thats funny I was watching a programme on sky sports only the other day where Ashton and other pundits were discussing how it was essential BOD was kept injury free for the Lions tour and how essential he is to the squad.

POC heads the popular vote on Sky for Lions Captain (BOD is second though).

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,12050_4650513,00.html

I was actually referring to the poll posted the other day funnily enough on munsterfans.com (feel free to search for it) where BOD won the poll with 35% of the votes.

As for Planet Rugby - the entire Munster pack plus ROG & Earls are in the "pack your bag" sections. BOD has been dropped to 'Standby'.

http://www.planetrugby.com/Story/0,18259,3819_4099600,00.html

To be honest anything that says ROG should pack his bags along with Earls who is yet to have a starting place for Ireland is not something I would take too seriously.

Presumably since you have used these pundits/sources to back up your argument, they are still valid.

I used the sky pundits of which they all agreed BOD was the first name down, I used the sky poll of which BOD won and I referred to British rugby writters who have all stated not only will BOD travel but that he should also captain. I have no doubt that there are other pundits in sky etc. that say different but obviously they arent too good at their jobs if they think the top HC try scorer doesnt deserve to go.

As for the bolded part - please read my post again - I specifically said if the older player deserved their place on form.

If you don't operate on form, and apart from it being wrong to discrimate on age, what does that say to the younger players - they don't even have to try and they get an international cap!

You basically asserted it would be wrong to drop a player that might have a chance at Lions despite him being out of form and Humphreys in form. Nice try though.

thehighground

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

You basically asserted it would be wrong to drop a player that might have a chance at Lions despite him being out of form and Humphreys in form. Nice try though.

Nope. Post No. 149 doesn't say that (see below). Silly to try what you have just tried to do there.

I personally would prefer Ireland to win a Grand Slam anyway and get that monkey off our backs. We have no chance of winning a GS with a rookie international OHs. A delay of six months in their development towards the next world cup to a summer tour isn't going to make too much difference. And TBH, to drop players because they might not make the next world cup (because of their age) and who might have a chance of making the Lions tour this summer and they are actually playing better than the young player you want to give international caps to is just wrong.

Goose81

Stev_o wrote: »

Considering out of all the coaching staff there is so far one English man its unlikely. Based on AI it would be 50/50 Welsh Scottish given their performance. Since we havent played SA its just a lucky dip which of our players will get picked.

It will have nothing to do with the coaches.Pressure will be heaped from the suits.Why would England fans travel to see a team with 1 or 2 english?
Thats where the money comes from.

RugbyFanatic

thehighground wrote: »

Nope. Post No. 149 doesn't say that (see below). Silly to try what you have just tried to do there.

so you believe O'Gara is playing better than Humphreys?

:rolleyes:

thehighground

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

Thats funny I was watching a programme on sky sports only the other day where Ashton and other pundits were discussing how it was essential BOD was kept injury free for the Lions tour and how essential he is to the squad.

I have given you two references where BOD has been dropped from the Lions Listing by British based pundits (presumably on current form!).

I was actually referring to the poll posted the other day funnily enough on munsterfans.com (feel free to search for it) where BOD won the poll with 35% of the votes.

I'm a regular visitor to munsterfans. I never saw that poll (doesn't mean it doesn't exist - we Munster fans can be very objective). I would love to see BOD back to his best and going on the Lions, but the issue is that his fitness is a major problem for him.

I have posted a link to the Sky poll where POC gets the popular vote, not BOD. You claimed that it was only Irish begrudgery that we all don't think that BOD is back to his best.

To be honest anything that says ROG should pack his bags along with Earls who is yet to have a starting place for Ireland is not something I would take too seriously.

No one is asking you to. Personally think that ROG has as good a chance as any other OH at the moment - and way ahead with his kicking which with these ELVs could probably win the series for the Lions. Earls may be brought along for the experience. They need players who will be happy to play the mid-week games.

I used the sky pundits of which they all agreed BOD was the first name down, I used the sky poll of which BOD won and I referred to British rugby writters who have all stated not only will BOD travel but that he should also captain. I have no doubt that there are other pundits in sky etc. that say different but obviously they arent too good at their jobs if they think the top HC try scorer doesnt deserve to go.

I don't know who the Sky pundits are, but what is presently up on Sky's website tells a different story. Name one British rugby writer who has stated that BOD will travel & captain the Lions (without a proviso that he gets his old form and fitness back)? As for the Top Try Scorer not going - you do realise that the all-time Top Points scorer in the HCup is ROG Not a good argument for BOD to be included for his try scoring prowess in the HCup if that is the case.

thehighground

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

so you believe O'Gara is playing better than Humphreys?

:rolleyes:

Ulster fans will tell you that they have lost a few tight ML games because his kicking wasn't good enough. (Check his stats).

Now, ROG has pulled off a few kicks recently that have won games and bonus points (as well) when the chips were down recently.

btw, ROG was only on the pitch for 15 minutes against Ulster - who is to say that he would not have rallied the troops if he hadn't gone off injured. And he didn't start against Connacht.

So what are you basing your theory on that Ian Humphreys is better than ROG?

RugbyFanatic

thehighground wrote: »

I'm a regular visitor to munsterfans. I never saw that poll (doesn't mean it doesn't exist - we Munster fans can be very objective). I would love to see BOD back to his best and going on the Lions, but the issue is that his fitness is a major problem for him.

I have posted a link to the Sky poll where POC gets the popular vote, not BOD. You claimed that it was only Irish begrudgery that we all don't think that BOD is back to his best.

http://www.skysports.com/poll/results/0,19911,12782_53169,00.html its the same poll actually I viewed it 2 weeks ago as it was just put on munsterfans.com BOD was ahead 35% of the vote, POC had a mere 5% obviously munsterfans.com rallied together to skew the results

feel free to read http://www.munsterfans.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=16172&TPN=1 if you dont believe me

No one is asking you to. Personally think that ROG has as good a chance as any other OH at the moment - and way ahead with his kicking which with these ELVs could probably win the series for the Lions. Earls may be brought along for the experience. They need players who will be happy to play the mid-week games.

ROG on current form will not travel especially when there is only room for 3 OHs with 2 welsh ones in flying form and the versatility of flood and Cirpriani

I don't know who the Sky pundits are, but what is presently up on Sky's website tells a different story. Name one British rugby writer who has stated that BOD will travel & captain the Lions (without a proviso that he gets his old form and fitness back)? As for the Top Try Scorer not going - you do realise that the all-time Top Points scorer in the HCup is ROG Not a good argument for BOD to be included for his try scoring prowess in the HCup if that is the case.

I already stated Ashton was one of them I don't know the others names but the notion is BOD not only to travel but to captain.

BOD is the current top try scorer this season has ROG been the top point scorer this season?

thehighground

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

http://www.skysports.com/poll/results/0,19911,12782_53169,00.html its the same poll actually I viewed it 2 weeks ago as it was just put on munsterfans.com BOD was ahead 35% of the vote, POC had a mere 5% obviously munsterfans.com rallied together to skew the results

Opening post in the munsterfans thread states the vote is BOD 30.8% v POC's 24.3%. Not 35% v 5%. Munster fans probably hadn't even started voting at that stage.

feel free to read http://www.munsterfans.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=16172&TPN=1 if you dont believe me

I read on the first page of this thread that Stephen Jones in the Sunday Times backs POC for Lions ahead of BOD and Ryan Jones. He then goes onto drop BOD and still has POC ahead of Ryan Jones (worth mentioning that Stephen Jones is Welsh and hates Munster, Ireland and everything Irish).

ROG on current form will not travel especially when there is only room for 3 OHs with 2 welsh ones in flying form and the versatility of flood and Cirpriani

emm ... Cipriani. Even the English don't think he is the greatest thing since the sliced pan now. I think Hook is a great player, but suffers a bit from inconsistency which is why Stephen Jones is still very much in the picture for Wales.

I already stated Ashton was one of them I don't know the others names but the notion is BOD not only to travel but to captain.

So Brian Ashton is now all the British pundits? A lot more seem to be going for POC to captain the Lions (mainly because his chances of being fit are better than BOD). If BOD kept fit, he would be a shoo in for the captaincy (imo, it would mainly be a sympathy vote because of what happened to him on the last tour to NZ)..

BOD is the current top try scorer this season has ROG been the top point scorer this season?

BOD & Tommy Bowe both have 4 trys each. Paddy Wallace has 3 by the way. ROG is 4th top points scorer - but then agains, he plays for a team that are up against teams in good form (CA, Sale & Mauntaban) - unlike Wasps, Edinburgh & Castres! And both Planet Rugby & Sky Sports have picked ROG for the Lions on those showings!

btw, I think its way too early to be picking a Lions team now and geneally don't take any notices of these threads (which is why I didn't notice the one on Munsterfans).

barnesd

I didn't know Sky Sports were picking the Lions team this year.

bleg

lock thread please. this is getting absolutely ridiculous. lads, use PMs. the rest of us don't care about your bickering about which source should be used.

Crash

I'm with Bleg on this one. Waaaay off from the original topic of conversation. Start a Lions thread (again) if yee want, but this conversation ain't gonna continue here.