Asked to produce / refused to look at cert

pipsqueak · 19-12-2008 6:12pm

D_murph wrote: »

i didnt say they were all power trippers :rolleyes:

as far as silly season goes, thats what i thought when i saw your posts on here about someone being harassed for doing nothing wrong. so you advocate this kind of behaviour do you :eek:? good man!!!

its silly season on here all year anyway. no matter what the OP in a lot of these threads says, theres always the likes of you that are poised at the keyboard to jump on them at first sight. even when they admit they were in the wrong, are willing to accept the consequences but just want to ask a question regarding what to expect in fines/points etc.

i can imagine if the same story was being told by one of your mates in the pub etc, you would believe it but its all too easy to bash someone from behind the safety of a fibre-optic line these days :rolleyes:.

ok sure!

lightening · 19-12-2008 6:48pm

pipsqueak wrote: »

not as such

Either you are or you aren't or you want to be!

You asked me earlier on to point out where the Gard was rude, I did. Do you still think its acceptable for public servants to be rude?

pipsqueak · 19-12-2008 7:12pm

lightening wrote: »

Either you are or you aren't or you want to be!

You asked me earlier on to point out where the Gard was rude, I did. Do you still think its acceptable for public servants to be rude?

Goes both ways my man, plenty of gardai out getting abuse on a daily basis from so called decent members of the public, of course i agree gardai should be mannerly,

fletch · 19-12-2008 8:07pm

Omg talk about wasting your time! Had a similar incident where a copper accused me of talking on my mobile while driving, I had no phone in the car at the time, offered him to search the car, drove straight to the local station and made a complaint. Chancers

lightening · 19-12-2008 9:20pm

pipsqueak wrote: »

of course i agree gardai should be mannerly,

That's what this was all about, as such.

Seth Brundle · 20-12-2008 12:10am

Chief--- wrote: »

The law is used only against boy racers...or, sorry "modified enthusiasts" who insist on putting sh1tbox bore exhausts on their car that keep alot of people awake at night in built up areas.

Which law?

Traumadoc · 20-12-2008 2:06am

One day I was in the fathers car and he was driving to his office a garda car was blocking his entrance and he politely beeped the horn, the gardai took offence to this and was quite aggressive. After my father parked the car the garda came into my fathers carpark and demanded to see his documents.

He then demanded that the documents were produced in Donnybrook garda station within 10 days - sort of a deliberate inconvenience to punish my father for daring to make a garda move his vehicle.

I generally find gardai to be polite and professional, but there is a significant minority who have trouble engaging with the general public in a non-confrontational manner.

Anan1 · 20-12-2008 2:15am

Traumadoc wrote: »

I generally find gardai to be polite and professional, but there is a significant minority who have trouble engaging with the general public in a non-confrontational manner.

The problem is that the Gardai have no effective supervision. It's a job that will always attract the odd power-tripper, and a failure to deal with this minority makes the job of the decent & professional majority that much harder.

unkel · 20-12-2008 2:19am

The one thing I don't understand is why a Garda would ask a driver to produce documents at a Garda station when there isn't anything wrong with the car or the driver. This is not good practice, to put it mildly.

Anan1 · 20-12-2008 2:43am

unkel wrote: »

The one thing I don't understand is why a Garda would ask a driver to produce documents at a Garda station when there isn't anything wrong with the car or the driver. This is not good practice, to put it mildly.

Particularly not when the driver's taken the trouble to have the documents with him!

unkel · 20-12-2008 3:16am

Anan1 wrote: »

Particularly not when the driver's taken the trouble to have the documents with him!

Indeed.

SV · 20-12-2008 3:53am

Chief--- wrote: »

The law is used only against boy racers...or, sorry "modified enthusiasts" who insist on putting sh1tbox bore exhausts on their car that keep alot of people awake at night in built up areas.

Oh ffs, please don't compare the two.

There's a big BIG difference between modified enthusiasts and boy racers. :mad:

pipsqueak wrote: »

Garda was jealous of this????mmmm doubt it somehow!!!

Someone clearly doesn't know what a good car is.

by8auj6csd3ioq · 20-12-2008 6:09am

Chief--- wrote: »

The law is used only against boy racers...or, sorry "modified enthusiasts" who insist on putting sh1tbox bore exhausts on their car that keep alot of people awake at night in built up areas.

and so it should be and i can tell you they will not get away with that here.boy racer blackspot here now

by8auj6csd3ioq · 20-12-2008 6:12am

ClioV6 wrote: »

Oh ffs, please don't compare the two.

There's a big BIG difference between modified enthusiasts and boy racers. :mad:

Someone clearly doesn't know what a good car is.

do modified enthusiasts make noise like the little boy racers if so they are fair game. no one has any right to keep people awake cause nuisance with their 'enthusiasm' But if they don't cause noise them good luck to them and enthuse away

Traumadoc · 20-12-2008 10:33am

I hear the modified drivers going around, but to be honest they are no more annoying than the 40+ year old neighbour with his harley, or the 2 stroke motor bikes up in the forest behind me .

Young men in souped up cars will always draw the ire of the law and other old fogies. if they were in gangs on motorbikes they would still get the same attention.
Its human nature for old fogies to be mistrustful of gangs of young men.

oleras · 20-12-2008 12:32pm

kbannon wrote: »

Which law?

Some environmental noise pollution thingie im sure.

galwaytt · 20-12-2008 1:19pm

Anan1 wrote: »

I'd be making a complaint. Did you get his number?

+1 on that. This is Garda rant #2 today, so I reckon there's a direction gone out, from somewhere.........

galwaytt · 20-12-2008 1:32pm

kbannon wrote: »

Which law?

+1 on that.

A Garda standing on the side of the road has no capability to determine the legality, or otherwise, of the note/sound of an exhaust.

First, there's a pile of entirely legal, yet lounder-than-standard exhausts available, and I'm quite sure some Gardai would take the view they 'sound illegal' (whatever that is.......:rolleyes:).

Legality is also influenced by the age of the car: older cars don't have to conform to current standards, for a start. Secondly, unless someone goes to the trouble of enquiring first, from the 'offending' part, the part number, and seeing if it carries a CE mark, they really have no business pursuing this.

Then there's the issue of the sound - I'm quite sure 99% of people, Gardai included, don't know what a decibel or frequency (Hz) is.

This is important to the OP, as, his car is a rotary, and the inherent frequency of the exhaust note, even if identical to that of another car, measured on a decibel meter, has a different frequency - it's because of the rotary engine's characteristics. Rev one up and you'll see what I mean.

It's this very simple principle that causes the sound of 2-stroke mopeds to drive people nuts, yet entirely tolerate the sound of the open-piped Harley of their neighbour. In all likelihood, the H-D is illegal, and the moped legal, but the human ear is more 'bothered' by the frequency of the 2-stroke sound. As an owner of both, believe me !!

This then demonstrates that, if the OP's case is as stated, that what we're dealing with here is a lack of understanding of the issue - noise. And nobody with a lack of that understanding has a place, or right tbh, to be trying to enforce any issue in respect of it.

As for the documents etc., I'd take issue with the refusal of an officer to look at them when produced. 'Computer' my ass - does this mean if the computer is down, or there's a power cut, that they can't process paper ? Rubbish. If this goes to court, I'd make that point known to, and if it doesn't, a letter to the Super is in order.

Turner · 20-12-2008 1:45pm

galwaytt wrote: »

+1 on that.

A Garda standing on the side of the road has no capability to determine the legality, or otherwise, of the note/sound of an exhaust.

First, there's a pile of entirely legal, yet lounder-than-standard exhausts available, and I'm quite sure some Gardai would take the view they 'sound illegal' (whatever that is.......:rolleyes:).

Legality is also influenced by the age of the car: older cars don't have to conform to current standards, for a start. Secondly, unless someone goes to the trouble of enquiring first, from the 'offending' part, the part number, and seeing if it carries a CE mark, they really have no business pursuing this.

Then there's the issue of the sound - I'm quite sure 99% of people, Gardai included, don't know what a decibel or frequency (Hz) is.

This is important to the OP, as, his car is a rotary, and the inherent frequency of the exhaust note, even if identical to that of another car, measured on a decibel meter, has a different frequency - it's because of the rotary engine's characteristics. Rev one up and you'll see what I mean.

It's this very simple principle that causes the sound of 2-stroke mopeds to drive people nuts, yet entirely tolerate the sound of the open-piped Harley of their neighbour. In all likelihood, the H-D is illegal, and the moped legal, but the human ear is more 'bothered' by the frequency of the 2-stroke sound. As an owner of both, believe me !!

This then demonstrates that, if the OP's case is as stated, that what we're dealing with here is a lack of understanding of the issue - noise. And nobody with a lack of that understanding has a place, or right tbh, to be trying to enforce any issue in respect of it.

As for the documents etc., I'd take issue with the refusal of an officer to look at them when produced. 'Computer' my ass - does this mean if the computer is down, or there's a power cut, that they can't process paper ? Rubbish. If this goes to court, I'd make that point known to, and if it doesn't, a letter to the Super is in order.

Not this again, "its not illegal to alter your exhaust"

There should really be a sticky on it..

Galwaytt you do not know the law.

It is an offence under the "ROAD TRAFFIC (CONSTRUCTION, EQUIPMENT AND USE OF VEHICLES) REGULATIONS, 1963"

Check out 34(e)
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1963/en/si/0190.html

It is an offence to alter your silencer to make it louder. God knows why people do it.

Harleys and ferraris come with factory exhausts and are legal, they might be loud but generally you dont get harley riders or ferrari owners doing burn outs in lidl car parks at 2 in the morning.

Generally you get kids in modified opel corsas with big bore exhausts doing this and this is why the gardai prosecute so many for having modified exhausts. No decibel reading is required in irish courts like you see in britain.

Alot of people are getting the message, you no longer see too many 1.4 imprezas with big bore sh1t box exhausts trying to pass off for the real thing.

SV · 20-12-2008 2:07pm

Alexander Icy Brunette wrote: »

do modified enthusiasts make noise like the little boy racers if so they are fair game. no one has any right to keep people awake cause nuisance with their 'enthusiasm' But if they don't cause noise them good luck to them and enthuse away

I'm sure their cars are much louder than standard yes, but they don't go out to make nusiance or do "donuts" in car parks either.
Ridiculous.

and Chief, there's no such thing as a 1.4 impreza, if you're going to complain about people who modify their exhausts then at least know the most basic things about the cars.

Turner · 20-12-2008 2:15pm

ClioV6 wrote: »

I'm sure their cars are much louder than standard yes, but they don't go out to make nusiance or do "donuts" in car parks either.
Ridiculous.

and Chief, there's no such thing as a 1.4 impreza, if you're going to complain about people who modify their exhausts then at least know the most basic things about the cars.

You have obviously never been to a meet or cruise. I have been to i dont know how many.

Sorry, 1.4l or 1.5l or whatever the lowest impreza is.

SV · 20-12-2008 2:39pm

Chief--- wrote: »

You have obviously never been to a meet or cruise. I have been to i dont know how many.

Sorry, 1.4l or 1.5l or whatever the lowest impreza is.

I have been to plenty.
Met in a car park every time and told to 'move on' for no reason, standing around talking, looking at each others cars.. engines OFF.

What's the problem?

20-12-2008 3:00pm

ClioV6 wrote: »

Oh ffs, please don't compare the two.

There's a big BIG difference between modified enthusiasts and boy racers. :mad:

+1

I hate when people instantly call anybody in a modified car a boy racer. Yes some cars(corsas etc) have a loud exhaust for no reason but a lot have have loud exhausts as the engines are highly modified and would blow a cat or a silencer to bits when the engine is being pushed. A friend of mine has a straight through pipe absolutely no silencers or cats and yes its very loud because he is running big big power but he dosnt act the maggot so the cops never bother with him(as guards he has come across so far have been sound). He was stopped once and the garda actually had a chat with him about the car as he had an interest. If the Gardai concentrated on actual boy racers rather than people who have a genuine interest in cars then this thread would not have had to be started in the first place for gods sake the op's car is factory standard( I think).

Turner · 20-12-2008 4:27pm

ClioV6 wrote: »

I have been to plenty.
Met in a car park every time and told to 'move on' for no reason, standing around talking, looking at each others cars.. engines OFF.

What's the problem?

Were getting of topic here...

You obviously werent at the galway cruise. Somebody could have been killed!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJ5d94w5wKw

Im sure the local residents were happy to have the cruise in their area:rolleyes:

I wonder how many stopped at the checkpoint were prosecuted for non standard exhausts??

SV · 20-12-2008 4:40pm

Chief--- wrote: »

Were getting of topic here...

You obviously werent at the galway cruise. Somebody could have been killed!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJ5d94w5wKw

Im sure the local residents were happy to have the cruise in their area:rolleyes:

I wonder how many stopped at the checkpoint were prosecuted for non standard exhausts??

I wasn't no.
Yep, plenty of times there loads of people could have been killed. :rolleyes:
In that entire video I seen 2 cars messing..and for this..everyone else is guilty by association?

oh and the law states;
29. (1) Every vehicle propelled by an internal combustion engine shall, subject to the provisions of sub-article (2) of this article, be fitted with an exhaust silencer or other device suitable and sufficient for reducing to a reasonable level the noise caused by the escape of exhaust gases from the engine.

So non standard exhausts aren't illegal once they have a silencer fitted then right? or is that, too, up to the Garda :rolleyes:

Turner · 20-12-2008 5:04pm

I have been to alot of cruises and meets. I have seen what goes on at some

With regard to the exhaust its not up to the Garda. He simply brings the evidence to court and its up to the judge to convict.

I have seen hundereds of case where people had changed their exhausts from factory standard being prosecuted.

Generally they were being prosecuted for acting the fool aswell and had general "boy racer" charges....

such as

Neon lights (that are not white or red light), improperly fitted bucket seats, modified exhaust, tinted windows, aftermarket spoiler, aftermarket sun visor, no l plates, unaccompanied, oversized wheels, sirens fitted to their cars, reg plates not conforming.

All of which are illegal.

And i have seen peeople try to defend themselves with regard to tints and exhausts saying that it passed the nct and limo's have tinted windows, only to be shot down by the judge.

SV · 20-12-2008 5:23pm

Chief--- wrote: »

And i have seen peeople try to defend themselves with regard to tints and exhausts saying that it passed the nct and limo's have tinted windows, only to be shot down by the judge.

Where's the law against tinting btw?
Just curious on that one as I could never find one but the Gardaí(in general) are adamant it's illegal..

also, if their exhausts still had silencers on them then they did absolutely nothing illegal, can only assume those that went to court didn't have the silencers so.

Carawaystick · 20-12-2008 5:24pm

Chief--- wrote: »

It is an offence under the "ROAD TRAFFIC (CONSTRUCTION, EQUIPMENT AND USE OF VEHICLES) REGULATIONS, 1963"

Check out 34(e)
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1963/en/si/0190.html

It is an offence to alter your silencer to make it louder. God knows why people do it.
....
No decibel reading is required in irish courts like you see in britain.

the law states

Law wrote:

every silencer or similar contrivance which is required to be fitted under these Regulations shall be maintained in good and efficient working order and shall not have been altered in such a way that the noise caused by the escape of the exhaust gases is made greater by the alteration

Surely to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the noise is greater, decibel readings of the original and aftermarket exhausts would need to be given in evidence??

and section 29 ses

law wrote:

9. (1) Every vehicle propelled by an internal combustion engine shall, subject to the provisions of sub-article (2) of this article, be fitted with an exhaust silencer or other device suitable and sufficient for reducing to a reasonable level the noise caused by the escape of exhaust gases from the engine

So all you need to do is fine one high performance car tractor/lorry/motorbike with an original exhaust that is louder than the after market exhaust on the car in question.

crocro · 21-12-2008 1:55am

C_Breeze wrote: »

Sureley what he did was illegal?? ... It is like asking asking me to produce my driving licence, but I have it right here LOOK! .. NO go to your local garda station?

what are your thoughts.

To answer the original question, the garda had no right to oblige you to produce your insurance documents at a garda station, when you had supplied them to him there and then.

The relevant law is the RTA 1961, sec 69

[A garda may]...demand of the person the production of either a certificate of insurance or a certificate of guarantee or a certificate of exemption in respect of the use of the vehicle by the person on the occasion and, if the person refuses or fails to produce any such certificate then and there, he shall, unless within ten days after the day on which the production was demanded he produces such certificate in person to a member of the Garda Síochána at a Garda Síochána station named by the person at the time at which the production was demanded, be guilty of an offence.

The only hitch is that if you now fail to produce and the case goes to court, the garda may simple deny that you offered the documents there and then, and the judge may choose not to believe you.

You have to be realistic.

Turner · 22-12-2008 5:21pm

ClioV6 wrote: »

Where's the law against tinting btw?
Just curious on that one as I could never find one but the Gardaí(in general) are adamant it's illegal..

34(2)(b) of the same act.

Again no light test or anything like that is required. If the judge believes the gard that they would obstruct the drivers view. On a dark wet night it deffo reduces visibility.

Factory smoked glass is ok, but stick on tints and you are asking for trouble and or a summons. Its used to prosecute people with those stupid aftermarket half screen blacked out visors aswell that they have decided to stick on themselves.

I once saw a judge issueing 500 euro fines for tints! Most other judges will only fine 50-150 euro. But then again if you end up in court for this you obviously did something else wrong. No garda will summons you if everything else on your car is legal. Hence why gardai go to town on boy racers at these meets or cruises.

Asked to produce / refused to look at cert

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