3X13 "Dual" ***Caution may contain Spoilers***

TheIrishGrover

Otacon wrote: »

Travelling faster than light, theoretically, allows you to go backwards and forwards in time.

No, travelling SLOWER than the speed of light allows you to forward in time

Well.... I suppose travelling at ALMOST the speed of light would cause a time dialation effect for flashette and ando which would mean that they could end up back where they started. Damn, as DirkVoodoo said above: Matt Parker had the answer after all!!!!!

'twas still sh1te though

DirkVoodoo

Ah, I just watched the last bit there (I admit, I got bored and couldn't watch it all).

So no more super-soldier. Ok, another Heroes storyling with an abrupt dead end and essentially no consequences. Nearly everything back to the way it was.

So, volume 4 will in fact be prison break season 2 meets heroes. I wonder will Wentworth Miller get a cameo as a fugitive with super powers.

Nervous Wreck

J-blk wrote: »

And why is everyone assuming Peter got his original powers back? From what was shown, it only seems like he got flight, by injecting the formula (which is officially the crappiest power in the show).

The cut on his face also healed, implying that all his powers were returned to him.

TheIrishGrover

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

The cut on his face also healed, implying that all his powers were returned to him.

Didn't notice that. Well spotted. Was gonna rewatch it ep to see but couldn't be ar5ed

JohnK

There was no scar at the start when he was talking to Nathan over the body so that might just be an oversight.

J-blk

JohnK wrote: »

There was no scar at the start when he was talking to Nathan over the body so that might just be an oversight.

I just watched it there to confirm - the scar is definitely there in the beginning and the end - it didn't heal.

JohnK

Maybe I'm getting confused with an alternate timeline Peter but exactly which scar are we talking about now?

J-blk

The one on his right cheek...

Here he is right at the beginning of "Dual":



and here he is right at the end of the same episode:



So it doesn't seem like his healing ability returned, which still leaves us at only flight, which could mean he did not get his original power(s) back at all...

JohnK

Ah so thats the one. I was looking for something like this: http://heroeswiki.com/Image:You_look_different_without_your_scar.JPG

J-blk

JohnK wrote: »

Ah so thats the one. I was looking for something like this: http://heroeswiki.com/Image:You_look_different_without_your_scar.JPG

Ah ok, I think that's yet another forgotten season 1 plotline of a possible future that never happened .

But yeah, the one I meant was the one on his cheek and in this episode it does not heal - in a way, they kind of had to deal with both Peter and Sylar's powers, as they are essentially too powerful. So I'm not too sure they'd give Peter his original powers back that easily (and who knows what the hell they'll do with Sylar at this point). Then again, Arthur was meant to be the scary big bad and look how that ended up...

Goodshape

His original power was "learning" other powers from people he encounters... maybe he just has to learn each power over again. Nathan was there at the time, so he can fly. Claire wasn't, so no healing yet.

I guess you could argue that it's a bit of a plot-hole... as it's the memory or 'feeling' or whatever of those people which gives him his extra powers, and he still has his memory. But plot-holes seem to be an accepted plot-device in Heroes at this stage; so I wouldn't be surprised.

J-blk

Goodshape wrote: »

But plot-holes seem to be an accepted plot-device in Heroes at this stage;

Heroes doesn't have plot-holes, it has plot-craters .

If Peter's powers were the only problem I have with the show at this stage I'd be happy - but I think they've managed to steadily screw the whole thing up since season 2. No improvement whatsoever so far...

Derek Coleman

Wait a minute people. We have been screaming at the writers to get rid of Time Travel and Power swapping and now they have done it! And all in the one episode.

Peter has his power back but it's reset to the beginning so all he has is flight at the moment. Hiro has no power so neither of them will have the ability to time travel. So the only time travel that can be done is with Ando and Daphne together. And I don't think they will use that again.

I really liked the way they destroyed all the main locations that have been over used so that we can move on to new places.

This episode gave me what I wanted. Time Travel - gone, Power swapping - gone, Formula - gone, Arthur and Sylar - gone(maybe).

The whole show is a mess but at least they got rid of the worst things before the new Volume started.

P.S. I don't think Ando kills Hiro in the future. He probably gives him back his powers somehow when he fires his red lightning at him.

Goodshape

Derek Coleman wrote: »

Wait a minute people. We have been screaming at the writers to get rid of Time Travel and Power swapping and now they have done it! And all in the one episode.

This 'volume' has been better than season two imo... but really, that's not saying too much.

And if you remember Season Two (painful, I know) they did essentially the same thing there --- ****ed it up all season long, then hit reset at the end to give them selves a chance of redemption.

So now we've had two mostly dreadful and almost entirely written-off seasons. Certainly doesn't bode well.

J-blk

Derek Coleman wrote: »

P.S. I don't think Ando kills Hiro in the future. He probably gives him back his powers somehow when he fires his red lightning at him.

I don't think that future even matters any more - there's no "powers for everyone" outcome anyway so why would that part come true? It's another possible future that never came to pass...

Though I'm pretty sure Hiro will get his powers back and soon - he was on the list of "fugitives" and with no powers, there'd be no good reason to go after him. And if Peter has his full power-absorbing ability back, well nothing has really changed again, has it? Volume 4 better pick up from the get-go...

Mr. K

I thought it was a pretty good episode. I agree with most of the complaints about this season and I'm glad the "Villains" volume is over. I kinda wish there were a few more lasting characters introduced after Season 1 though, especially Adam and...well, just him really. I thought he was interesting, not quite main villain material though. Arthur's re-introduction was utterly pointless, you've really got to wonder about the writing process for this show sometimes.

So glad Peter got his powers back. He's not too bright or interesting, but his powers are very cool indeed. We all know Sylar's gonna be back, so hopefully we'll see a big showdown between them before it's all over.

Ando's now Fabian Cortez! Is...is that nerdy? I instantly thought of him...

Nalz

J-blk wrote: »

to Meredith walking around with a gun (she can er... throw flames from her hands, why the hell does she need a gun?).
..

Think it was to hit Sylar at his "pressure point" behind his next with. Flames I dont think would of had the same effect

eVeNtInE

This post has been deleted.

kaiser soza

Weird to see Micah back and notice Nathan didn't show a picture of Sylar,also great to see Evil Nathan but why does any preminition never come true,I was hoping to see Adam back.

JohnK

No sign of Peter either I think. Presumably he isnt going to tell them about himself so he'll probably just ignore Peter and hope noone starts asking questions about his family.

J-blk

Trilla wrote: »

Think it was to hit Sylar at his "pressure point" behind his next with. Flames I dont think would of had the same effect

Ah yes, fair point. Though how the hell any of them expected to get a chance to shoot Sylar in the back of his head is beyond me...

JohnK wrote: »

No sign of Peter either I think. Presumably he isnt going to tell them about himself so he'll probably just ignore Peter and hope noone starts asking questions about his family.

Yep, no sign of him. And no sign of Ma Petrelli either I think... Seems Nathan is covering up the fact that any Petrellis have abilities, as that would cast suspicion on himself too.

dubhdara3

J-blk wrote: »

Yep, no sign of him. And no sign of Ma Petrelli either I think... Seems Nathan is covering up the fact that any Petrellis have abilities, as that would cast suspicion on himself too.

Personally I would think, if he showed a picture of his mother, his brother and even his illegimate daughter, then someone is gonna ask the questions about him.

While I thought the season as a whole was rubbish, and went off in a weird tangent, in the end I thought it might actually come back, and lead to a similar future as the one shown in season 1 (Five Years Gone).

The difference being... it would be the real Nathan as President, but the superpowered people are still outcast's who are being hunted by one of their own, and Peter leading the resistance.... if done right, the next Volume could be their most interesting... (big IF there tho )

Bubs101

I didn't think it was bad tbh. The Sylar plot premise was solid, even if the delivery was uninspired but I'm hoping that this will lead to the beginning of super mean future leather wearing Claire as she left her mother. Amazed he didn't take the puppet master ability

Also, don't know why people are just assuming that Mohinder just got cured, to have survived the blast he must have gotten healing powers and there was no point in healing him just to kill him.

marie_85

Figured out what 'Heroes' reminds me of.

You know that game, in which one person starts telling a story, then the next person tells the next part, then someone else and so on... It's fun when there's a group of you sitting round in a circle and you can laugh at how ridiculous the story is getting. Not so much when it's supposed to be a halfway decent TV show.

I mean, where was the Haitian during this? The last we saw of him, Peter was snarling at him to 'Go after Sylar' and then next thing we know, Sylar's playing mindgames with Claire and Co and there's no sign of the Haitian.

Don't even get me started on the time travel bit. I did laugh though when out of the characters there, Parkman was the only one the writers had to explain the Theory of Relativity.

Nathan. *sigh* They've pretty much ruined his character. His arc in S1 was good - the dodgy politician with doubts and an inner core that came out at the right moment to save his brother. Since then, he's changed his mind more times than a big... changy... thing. Why did he have to have such a complete 180 two or three episodes before the end? Why not just gradually build up to it during the season.

Sylar should have died at the end of S1. I've never warmed to him and ZQ does my head in with his cartoonish acting.

Claire still is getting too much time and attention. And that wig she's wearing is awful. Very distracting.

Fysh

Hmmm. Having seen during the opening credits that Jeph "Extraordinary people doing the laundry and washup leading ordinary lives" Loeb wrote this episode, I resigned myself to more of the same faults that the rest of the season had. And they were definitely present, but at this point I'm tired and bored of even thinking about them.

Volume 4 has been set up with a potentially interesting premise, so I'll do what I did with series one - check out the first four episodes or so and decide from there. The firing of Jeph Loeb and return of Bryan Fuller give me hope that the writing will return to the consistency of series one. Although I have to say, of the three volumes so far two have had some pretty shonky writing so they'll not have an easy time pulling the show back. If the 4400 got canned for significantly lesser sins after its 4th series, I'm guessing someone at NBC is going to be looking very closely at the viewing figures for Volume 4...

DirkVoodoo

I was just reading there about the "batman 3" rumors and what Christopher Nolan will actually do (Eddie Murphy is the most desperate rumor to be made up by the tabloids thus far).

But as Nolan himself said, the Dark Knight was a definitive batman movie in his mind. When I told my 16 year old brother this, he looked at me with some puzzlement and said "yeah, but they have to make another", when I asked why he replied "because it has to be a trilogy".

It seems to be the problem with studio movie/television, we are constantly thrown sequels/new seasons when, from a narrative and artistic perspective, they might not be needed (money-money-money). I wanted a second heroes season as much as any person here, but looking back I think I would have held season 1 in much higher regard had the show ended there. I can't see quality programming surviving if the network heads continually interfere in the production/direction of shows. I have yet to watch the wire, but as I understand it you have 4 seasons of carefully planned story from differing perspectives of the same city. Heroes had an original vision (new season, ew heroes) but buckled to popular demand. So we get characters who have clearly completed their arcs making decisions just to fill up 40 mins. The Nathan story fits this perfectly, as mentioned previously. In season 1 you have a man conflicted with his ambition for political power and his shame in hiding an ability he doesn't understand. He comes to blows with his idealistic brother but in the end, with a pretty touching exhange of brotherly affection, saves the day.

Then season 2 happens, ok Nathan isn't dead and by some creative writing he doesn't have to live with any physical scars (even the mental ones heal half way through) and he saves his brother - again. Oh, we also think he dies again.

Hey, season 3, Nathan is alive! This man is harder to kill than Rasputin! Oh, he has found God, no wait he has acted like that never happened and is going back to being a senator (Hey, didn't he have an estranged family?). It seems now he wants to do some kind of superpowered UNICEF work, that's pretty noble. No, my mistake, he has fallen out with his brother (didn't he help him save the world in season 1?) and run off to help his father create a super powered army....

Ok, so you get the idea.

I'm left thinking of Firefly, there was a show which now sits proudly in my DVD selection along with Serenity. While I'm left thinking of what might of been with the "hands of blue" and all that, I will never have to look back and think "that was the point it all went wrong" (and looking back at Buffy and to a lesser extent Angel, I know this would have happened, sorry Joss).

Heroes may be beyond saving because perhaps there was no longer any story left to tell, or at least not for our current crop of heroes.

kaiser soza

It went as bad as the last stand aka X-Men 3 with Heroes and villians killed left and right and plot holes everywhere but I am still going to watch to see how long it takes for this show to be pushing dasieys.

User45701

J-blk wrote: »

The one on his right cheek...

Here he is right at the beginning of "Dual":



and here he is right at the end of the same episode:



So it doesn't seem like his healing ability returned, which still leaves us at only flight, which could mean he did not get his original power(s) back at all...

Are you sure peter just didnt get his orginal power of learning powers back and he could fly because Nathan was near him?

Derek Coleman wrote: »

P.S. I don't think Ando kills Hiro in the future. He probably gives him back his powers somehow when he fires his red lightning at him.

Wouldn't it be interesting if ando's power is the formula,

it could make existing powers stronger and also give powers to those that have none?

J-blk

User45701 wrote: »

Are you sure peter just didnt get his orginal power of learning powers back and he could fly because Nathan was near him?

No, I'm not sure he got his original power back, that was kinda my whole point. Most people are assuming that he did (which may very well be the case) but there was nothing in the episode to clearly indicate that. Somebody mentioned his cut healed by the end of the episode, establishing that he got all his powers back and I posted the screenies to clarify that didn't happen. I don't know if he got his original power back or not, but I think we'll find out very soon when the show returns...

Blazer

Reminds me of lost now..only watching it to see what happends really.
S2+S3 really screwed Heroes up.:mad: