Luas for Cork: get the crayons out!

markpb

JHMEG wrote: »

Same reason they're re-doing the Navan line in Irish gauge - because it connects to the existing Irish gauge network.

In fairness, that's a terrible reason The further Irish Rail can be kept away from new rail projects, the better as far as I'm concerned.

JHMEG

markpb wrote: »

If you have a well designed bus network, good priority and a customer-responsive bus operator, you can have a bus service that's as good as light rail but for a fraction of the cost.

I would agree, and I think Cork city has a pretty good road network - probably the best of any Irish city. Certainly better than say Galway which is plagued by narrow streets.

JHMEG

markpb wrote: »

In fairness, that's a terrible reason The further Irish Rail can be kept away from new rail projects, the better as far as I'm concerned.

Absolutely, but I'm only talking about the rail network, not the company that runs it.

(If the new Navan line was laid to Laus gauge, it'd end in Clonsilla)

Cookie_Monster

dagetz wrote: »

Ok yeah standard might be cheaper but im pretty sure the heavy rail is too wide for car lanes, i remember it being dicussed on the news when they were putting it in.

gauge has nothing to do with heavy or light rail. You can have narrow gauge heavy rail if you wish

dagetz wrote: »

Well thats why I am saying they should have cobh and midleton trains running on the luas lines and then all the intercity running on the heavy rail. I dont understand why when they were putting in the new midleton line that they didnt use standard gauge, especially if you said its cheaper, it doesnt need to be heavy its not carrying any cargo

because then the stock would be unusable everywhere else and you'd have to buy new trains, new maintenance depots & rigs, different spares and a whole host of other things.

dagetz

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

because then the stock would be unusable everywhere else and you'd have to buy new trains, new maintenance depots & rigs, different spares and a whole host of other things.

The point is that cork needs a tram system so yes you would have to buy a whole new system but cobh and midleton should be on that system as well. Changing only cobh and midleton to a different system and not putting in a luas would be utterly pointless but you are going to have to buy the kit for the luas anyways

KCAccidental

Cork doesn't NEED light rail infrastructure, it just needs a proper integrated public transportation system. population density in the cork metropolitan area isn't high enough to demand that a light rail system be implemented.

a much more sensible and cheaper solution for present day Cork would be a Bus Rapid Transit system using right of ways that could be upgraded to light rail when there is sufficient demand in the future. a high frequency BRT line (or two) would solve a lot of the problems with commuting in the western suburbs especially. a ballincollig -> mahon point line would be a viable alternative.

have to agree with the creation of a Cork transportation authority to clear up the mess that is BE's city network. a complete rethink of bus routing is needed.

dagetz

KCAccidental wrote: »

Cork doesn't NEED light rail infrastructure, it just needs a proper integrated public transportation system. population density in the cork metropolitan area isn't high enough to demand that a light rail system be implemented.

a much more sensible and cheaper solution for present day Cork would be a Bus Rapid Transit system using right of ways that could be upgraded to light rail when there is sufficient demand in the future. a high frequency BRT line (or two) would solve a lot of the problems with commuting in the western suburbs especially. a ballincollig -> mahon point line would be a viable alternative.

have to agree with the creation of a Cork transportation authority to clear up the mess that is BE's city network. a complete rethink of bus routing is needed.

If you think that it can be presented in a way that it doesnt have to use the roads, predestrians dont stay onto it (other wise the buses will have to travel slowly and it'll defeat the purpose) and it is electrified and cars dont stray into the lanes im behind you 100%. I think you will find what people found out hundreds of years ago that the best way to do that is to put them on rails. What are trams except buses on rails. I also think that the enviromental impact should be considered so the buses would ideally be elctrified. We are talking about in essence a tram here. Also when you put in all the proper bus stops and create all the lanes and buy the new buses is it really going to be that much cheaper. Why not do it right and leave it ready for when the city does have the population base for this kind of transport in 5 years?

T Corolla

Do you think you would get 28.4 million passengers per annum to use the service. Apart from commuters would there be populaion density to justify
Would it be better to introduce double decker buses on heavier used routes and maybe electrify the commuter line from Mallow to Midelton. On the same note what are the ridership figures for the commuter lines.

Judgement Day

dagetz - while some of your facts are a bit mangled I would agree 100% with you that Cork should have some form of Light rail system - preferably Luas style. However, it would be ridiculous to go messing about with the existing standard gauge lines to enable through running. Cork station is a good distance from the City Centre and this could be got over by running a light rail system from the back of the existing station across to Merchants Quay and on in to Patrick Street. Another line could run via Albert Quay to connect with a new route using the old Cork, Blackrock and Passage Railway. Much of the trackbed of this line is in use as a walkway. Just a couple of thoughts but I reckon that there has been far too much emphasis on road building in Cork and the planners (?) will have decades to rue their mistakes.

spacetweek

Judgement Day wrote: »

Just a couple of thoughts but I reckon that there has been far too much emphasis on road building in Cork and the planners (?) will have decades to rue their mistakes.

BRT in the centre of the road is probably the way to go in Cork, in my opinion. The cost and capacity of a Luas is too high for this context.

Wesley Johnston gives some outline costs of BRT compared to LRT. I know the figures are for Belfast, and since Belfast is much larger it's debatable whether they should be going with BRT, but that's neither here nor there. Cork is too small for large scale LRT deployment and when reading those costings it should be born in mind that the higher LRT costs are only justifiable if you're going to be filling the trams. Cork wouldn't most of the time.