Luas for Cork: get the crayons out!

Amtmann

I couldn't find another thread on this, so I said I'd start one.

Bearing in mind:

1) the new commuting train improvements due to come on stream (Blarney to Midleton etc., and the new Dunkettle station);
2) the volume of commuters coming into Cork from the west (Bandon, etc);
3) plus the resident population, not to mention Douglas, Mahon, Eagle Valley etc.;
4) an ever more congested south ring road;
5) a growing student population;
6) projected population increases

is a LUAS for Cork justifiable? Obviously not on a Dublinesque scale, but on a more limited level.

It seems to me that a LUAS for Cork would have to pass by, or close to, Dunkettle, Mahon, Douglas, Wilton, Bishopstown, UCC, Bus Station, Kent Station. I'd envisage the line going down College Road and Barrack Street (which would obviously be made a car-free zone) towards the centre from UCC. Or, perhaps, towards the centre along Western Road.

Anyone care to get their crayons out and design a line? What type of operating hours and frequency would you run a Cork LUAS at?

invincibleirish

I think there is a thread here and one on the old P11 boards which went into some level of detail.

My own simple plan would be have a rough alignment: Ballincollig-CIT-Bishopstown/Wilton/CUH-UCC-Grand Parade/Pt St-Bus Station-Kent-North Docklands-South Docklands-Douglas-Mahon

Cork Councils putting together City transport review over past few months i believe, light rail being considered apparently as well as trolley buses?, the previous review ruled out light rail for but Cork City Co. are seemingly working towards developing a City Centre-Mahon axis for such a project.

Putting in a LUAS line like above would mean you could completely overhaul bus services as so many direct An Lar/South Mall services would not be needed and could be used as feeder services for sprawl like Ballincollig/Wilton & Douglas/Mahon.

Then you could ban or congestion charge the city centre.

Its great to dream.

bill_ashmount

I'd be happy with a proper bus system and a few cycle lanes.

Amtmann

You won't get a proper bus system until the number of cars on the roads falls markedly, particularly along routes where commuter traffic enters the city (e.g. Wilton Road/Dennehy's Cross etc.). Busses in Cork are slow. Supply a LUAS and ban cars from the City Centre and approaching streets/roads and bus/tram usage will take over.

thejuggler

Not going to happen any time soon. A more cost effective and faster resolution would be to redraw the bus routes so that they don't do cross city journeys.
If the existing buses we have were to run from the edge of the city centre to the suburbs that they serve the route frequency would improve dramatically.

The biggest disincentive regarding bus services in Cork is that the waiting time is too long on most routes. Also the city bus network should include all suburbs. Places like Blarney and Ballincollig are now effectively City suburbs and passengers should pay a city bus fare.

A Luas would be nice but even in celtic tiger days we didn't have a hope of getting one. Even the plan to open the railway stations at Kilbarry and Blarney is on the long finger. If the Midleton Railway project was not as advanced when Amgen pulled the plug it too would have been mothballed. A better bus service is the only hope in the short to medium term.
However there is neither the will nor the inclination in union driven bus eireann to change anything for the better. Putting a double decker on the Ballincollig route is their biggest innovation in the last decade.

Blitzkrieger

Corks too small for a light railway. Both in terms of population and the size of the streets. Parking levys + ParkNRide ftw.....

fastrac

I attended a meeting of the Blarney Historical Society recently and they had the plans of all the old tramlines and railways in the city.Trams running from Blackpool to Blackrock via City centre.Superb picture of The Muskerry Tram going past a Sundays Well tram at Victoria Cross,No need for new plans just work around the old plans and save millions

E92

Never mind the size of Cork - the city's streets are too narrow in many places for a bus lane in even one never mind 2 directions, so how the hell are we going to find space for a tram as well?

That's why we will never have a Luas in Cork.

I'd love to see an underground system though, but I don't think we have the population for it. I also don't turst our ability to plan either - if we were ever to get something like this we need to get Germans and let them design it whatever way they want cause they'll do it right and it will actually work.

Wallacebiy

Electric, articulated buses .

Far cheaper to install , less damage to roads and infrastucture and away you go . Much more sensible plan . Luas is a dogs dinner in my opinion

invincibleirish

E92 wrote: »

the city's streets are too narrow in many places for a bus lane in even one never mind 2 directions, so how the hell are we going to find space for a tram as well?

Find space by closing off streets to private traffic? using the alignment i outlined above you are essentially losing roadspace in Ballincollig/Curraheen Rd/Western Rd/College Rd/Grand Parade/South Mall then moving onto a new alignment using proposed developments in the Docklands and accompanying bridges with it, then back onto the roads down into Douglas village.

You'd be closing some streets and reducing the capacity of others.

Dont think Cork is too small for a LUAS, Angers in France has a similar metropolitan population and they've just announced a light rail line for their City.

Given 80% plus of the City's population is on the southside then one line is all that would really be needed to completely change the cities commuting habits.

bill_ashmount

invincibleirish wrote: »

Given 80% plus of the City's population is on the southside then one line is all that would really be needed to completely change the cities commuting habits.

:eek: Is this accurate? I wouldn't have thought it was that lob-sided.

invincibleirish

bill_ashmount wrote: »

:eek: Is this accurate? I wouldn't have thought it was that lob-sided.

I believe it is as defined by adding up all population inside and outside the city Boundaries, so Carrigaline etc. would be included.

The larger Cork urban area has anywhere between 1/4 and a 1/3 of a million of people. There is enough people to make light railway feasible, its just a question of whether the Councils plan well enough to encourage development.

The original CASP plan was a roaring success on the roads side, but meant the city was depopulated whilst the the commuter belt swelled. Any future transport plans for the city should take into account utilising the Docklands as imo thats the only way funding will ever be achieved for light rail in the city.

pure speculation of course, as mentioned the biggest innovations in Cork public transport in the 21st Centruy are in order: 1) new 13km railway line(delayed),2) hourly trains to Dublin, 3) return of the doubledeckers and a a couple of new routes(none of which have 7 day timetables:rolleyes:). So Cork is a million miles away from being a public transport friendly city.

Typewriter

I'm with the Greens on this although I would have a second line going from Airport-Grange-Douglas-City Centre-Blackpool-Glanmire. And maybe extend the Mahon line to Carrigaline via Mount Oval. West Cork should have a proper broad-gauge rail line.

Amtmann

green_jesus wrote: »

I'm with the Greens on this although I would have a second line going from Airport-Grange-Douglas-City Centre-Blackpool-Glanmire.

Agreed.

What about operating hours folks?

DWCommuter

Relax folks. Recession is going to do the job for us. Just watch as congestion eases in our cities and towns as people have no job to which they can drive to. McWilliams hasn't spotted that one yet, so I'm claiming it. You heard it here first!;)

markpb

The best crayons anyone could use would be ones used to draw pictures of new politicians who understand the need to plan for the long term, not the next election.

bill_ashmount

invincibleirish wrote: »

I believe it is as defined by adding up all population inside and outside the city Boundaries, so Carrigaline etc. would be included.

Hmm, then surely Blarney and Glanmire need to be included in the Northside projections. It just seems massively overbalanced to me to say 80-20, although saying that I don't have accurate figures to hand.

schween

There's a plan like this in motion for Galway. The GLUAS they're calling it. It would be great if it was built but I very much doubt it will. In this country the policy is to build houses as far as the eye can see and then try get yourself out of a mess. If they built rail, and then medium or high density accommodation around it...but hey then our councillors wouldn't have anything to bicker over in our council chambers

Ckal

Random question. But would a tram "on stilts" be cheaper than digging up roads etc? And would it be viable for Cork?

dowlingm

Well, there could have been a light rail line through Blackrock and Mahon if they didn't pedestrianise the old line and throw a sewer line down it.

corktina

dowlingm wrote: »

Well, there could have been a light rail line through Blackrock and Mahon if they didn't pedestrianise the old line and throw a sewer line down it.

closed for how many years now? 70 is it? I think an alternative use, no, hold hard TWO alternative uses is quite justified much as the romantic trainspotter inme would love to see the Cork Blackrock and passage line (and all the otehrs) reopened:D

invincibleirish

bill_ashmount wrote: »

Hmm, then surely Blarney and Glanmire need to be included in the Northside projections. It just seems massively overbalanced to me to say 80-20, although saying that I don't have accurate figures to hand.

Using 2002 CSO figures, Cork City NW & NE have just under 50k of an official pop. of nearly 125k. southside/northside breakdown would be around 66/33, but when adding in burbs like Glanmire & Blarney to the North and Carrigaline/Passage West, Ballincollig, bits of Douglas/Bishopstown/Togher etc to the south, it would push the ratio close to the 80/20 mark in favour of the enlarged southside.

dowlingm

corktina - how many years was the Harcourt line closed for again?

corktina

only about 40 id say...:D totally different scenario...:cool:

snubbleste

The CLUAS

jaffa20

I drew a map for the new luas in cork

Judgement Day

Of course a tram/light rail system for Cork would be a good idea but it will never happen with the useless politicians you have down there. Look how long it took to get a partial re-opening of the Youghal line which first proposed in the Cork Land Use & Transportation Study of 1978! The Midleton reopening is proving so expensive that it will probably put off any prospect of further railway development in the Cork area. The line from Midleton was still passed for passenger traffic as recently as 1988 but due to CIE/IEs unique interpretation of the concept of 'mothballing' it ended up little better than a cart track. I wish you luck.

namloc1980

Bored so I decided to get the crayons out. Here's my idea for a tram line in Cork:



Going from Left to right (west to east)



Start at CIT and come in along the Model Farm Road. It would be possible to extend the line to Ballincollig from here in future. Turn down the Wilton Road at Dennehy's Cross. A spur line could be built here to serve CUH and Bishopstown. A stop at Victoria Cross and onto the Western Road with a stop at the Mardyke. Onto a stop at the gates of UCC. Continue in the Western Road and onto Washington Street.



Stop at the Courthouse. Down Washington Street and swing onto the Grand Parade with a stop there. Down the South Mall and over the City Hall Bridge with a stop there - 2 minute walk from the Bus Station. Down the quay to Albert Quay.



Down Centre Park Rad with a stop at Docklands to cater for the 'future' Docklands development. Further stops at Centre Park Road and Páirc Uí Chaoimh. The line would then use the old Blackrock Railway line with stops at Blackrock Village, the new Eden development, the CSO and terminate at Mahon Point.

The line covers many high people traffic places such as: CIT, Model Farm Road IDA estate, Victoria Cross, UCC, City Centre, South Mall, Páirc Uí Chaoimh, Mahon Point. The line would be approx 11.5km in total.

It could link to a future second line from Blackpool to Douglas via the city centre.

Anyway just put it together for fun because there's no political will to sort out Cork's shambolic public transport system at the moment.

JupiterKid

I think Cork is really the only other city in Ireland that could sustain a LUAS type light rail system. The best line IMO would be one that runs from west to east, serving the CIT, the County Hall, UCC, the City Centre, the new Docklands area (with a link to Kent Station) and Mahon Point/Douglas.

Critical to its success would be the degree with which it interfaced with existing public transport - such as bus and rail - services. I think only 1 line with a possible spur would realistically be viable for city as small as Cork.

Typewriter

namloc1980 wrote: »

The line would then use the old Blackrock Railway line...

:eek:

I don't think so.

The old line is now a very popular well established greenway. Maybe Luas could divert into Blackrock station from the unused land on the Maria then straight out again heading up behind Aldi and towards Mahon Point. This might only be tolerated if provisions were made to keep a pedestrian right of way.

antoinolachtnai

How wide is the old railway/new greenway?

Victor

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

How wide is the old railway/new greenway?

AFAIK, it was built as single track, mostly in a limestone cutting.

The greenway could be maintained if it was single track, but you would need to widen the cutting to maintain it with double track. Its been a greenway for at least 25 years.

Former Blackrock station here: http://www.bing.com/maps/default.aspx?v=2&FORM=LMLTCP&cp=sngf65g8ym65&style=b&lvl=2&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&phx=0&phy=0&phscl=1&scene=27178203&where1=blackrock%20cork&encType=1 just might have been double track.

Typewriter

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

How wide is the old railway/new greenway?

Around Blackrock the line was first built as Irish broad gauge (5 foot 3 inches) double track but was later converted to narrow gauge (3 foot) double track (the only ever double track narrow gauge railway).



Some more pics here... http://www.panoramio.com/photo/3884925

Edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cork,_Blackrock_and_Passage_Railway

Treora

Blitzkrieger wrote: »

Corks too small for a light railway. Both in terms of population and the size of the streets. Parking levys + ParkNRide ftw.....

Are you kidding. Google Linz, an amazing trammed city with a bus and tram exclusive corridor going down main street. It would gain respect and enable it to increase its population density.

namloc1980

green_jesus wrote: »

:eek:

I don't think so.

The old line is now a very popular well established greenway. Maybe Luas could divert into Blackrock station from the unused land on the Maria then straight out again heading up behind Aldi and towards Mahon Point. This might only be tolerated if provisions were made to keep a pedestrian right of way.

I thought about this and obviously it's not ideal. However there is approx 6km of walkway in this area (Marina to Rochestown and then around the Mahon Penninsula back to Blackrock). Using c. 2km of that as a vital public transport corridor is acceptable IMO and most of the walkway (c.4km) will remain intact. The reason to use the old line is to avoid disruption to existing roads in this area.

namloc1980

JupiterKid wrote: »

I think Cork is really the only other city in Ireland that could sustain a LUAS type light rail system. The best line IMO would be one that runs from west to east, serving the CIT, the County Hall, UCC, the City Centre, the new Docklands area (with a link to Kent Station
) and Mahon Point/Douglas.
Critical to its success would be the degree with which it interfaced with existing public transport - such as bus and rail - services. I think only 1 line with a possible spur would realistically be viable for city as small as Cork.

A link to Kent is vital. As a first step a pedestrian access onto Horgan's Quay is a must. This shouldn't be too difficult (of course we're still waiting for the station to be turned around facing onto the Quay) and would significantly cut down on walking times to the city centre / bus station.

bk

Lads, lets be realistic here, with Bus Eireann planning to cut bus services and reduce them to just 7pm, we can't even operate a very basic bus service, never mind the expense of a Luas.

For just a fraction of the cost to build a Luas, we could run a decent bus service in Cork. We really need to focus on fixing th Cork Bus Service before even thinking about a Luas.

First thing that needs to be done is get rid of BE and replace it with a dedicated Cork Bus Company (like DB), partly owned by Cork City and County councils.

Increase the number of buses, increase frequencies, new routes, bus lanes, etc. We need a service more like DB which is vastly superior to Cork Bus (Corkonian living in Dublin).

Typewriter

Interesting article here.

€ 573 Million Innovative "Tram-Train" Rail System Proposed for Cork

Tuesday September 16, 2008 15:03 by Brian Guckian.

Scheme Requires Cancellation of Proposed Northern Ring Road.

CORK City and County Councils could show genuine support for European Mobility Week and for Sustainable Transport policies in general by cancelling their unsustainable proposed Northern Ring Road scheme and spending the funds on an innovative € 573 million city- and county-wide rail system using continental European "tram-train" technology instead, a national sustainable transport researcher and campaigner, Brian Guckian, has said.

"Tram-train" technology, originally pioneered in Germany, uses rail vehicles similar to conventional trams, but which can run on the existing rail network as well as on-street. Mr. Guckian said that Cork lent itself very well to this technology as it had good penetration of conventional rail, and was also suitable for on-street light rail.

The technology combines both tram and conventional rail systems so that in future, it was possible that services could run through from Midleton, Cobh and Blarney into the city centre and on to destinations that were rail-served in the past, such as Ballincollig, Passage, Carrigaline and Bandon. The format was popular in Germany and France and was about to be trialled in the UK.

Mr. Guckian said he had carried out outline work on a wide-ranging proposal that would see 95 km of re-built railway and 29 km of adapted existing railway providing a comprehensive, genuine and sustainable tram-train network for Cork city and county. Based on cutting-edge European transport technology, it powerfully challenged the failed US-style highway-building policies of the Councils which dated from the 1960s and which were now greatly out-moded at a time of increasing fuel prices and climate change.

The proposal would also serve Cork Airport and the main industrial centres, and featured a city centre loop that would take in the main retail and leisure areas and the university. The network could also be engineered to carry freight, for which there currently was an enormous potential market as road freight became increasingly costly.

At an overall estimated cost of € 573 million, Mr. Guckian pointed out that in comparison, the proposed Northern Ring Road - which was contrary to EU policies on sustainable transport - had been estimated to cost € 500 million. He said it was time for the Councils to show courage, to "kick the roads habit" and fully embrace sustainable transport policies that included not just comprehensive rail development, but also road conversions to facilitate the development of key cycle- and pedestrian-only "Greenways" through the city. "It's time to live in the 21st century and to leave the 1960s behind", he said.

The tram-train rail system proposal could be implemented jointly by Cork City and County Councils, the Railway Procurement Agency and Iarnrod Eireann and would feature full public participation as mandated by best practice in community planning and by EU legislation.

Mr. Guckian concluded that at present Cork was a heavily roads-biased city, notwithstanding the re-opening of the short rail line to Midleton, and, like other cities, would need massive cultural and political change if it was to achieve national targets on emissions cuts and genuine reductions in car use and oil dependency.

ENDS

Contact: Brian Guckian 087 9140105 railprojects@eircom.net

markpb

bk wrote: »

First thing that needs to be done is get rid of BE and replace it with a dedicated Cork Bus Company (like DB), partly owned by Cork City and County councils.

Hopefully if ye do get a new bus company, it will be _nothing like_ DB :-)

bk

markpb wrote: »

Hopefully if ye do get a new bus company, it will be _nothing like_ DB :-)

Believe it or not, DB is vastly superior to the bus service in Cork and would be a vast improvement!!

I say that as a Corkonian living in Dublin.

dowlingm

The only way a Brian Guckian article would be interesting is if it involved him getting savaged by a flock of maurauding rabbits (what is the collective term for bunnies anyway?)

mickey rourke

namloc1980 wrote: »

Bored so I decided to get the crayons out. Here's my idea for a tram line in Cork:



Going from Left to right (west to east)



Start at CIT and come in along the Model Farm Road. It would be possible to extend the line to Ballincollig from here in future. Turn down the Wilton Road at Dennehy's Cross. A spur line could be built here to serve CUH and Bishopstown. A stop at Victoria Cross and onto the Western Road with a stop at the Mardyke. Onto a stop at the gates of UCC. Continue in the Western Road and onto Washington Street.



Stop at the Courthouse. Down Washington Street and swing onto the Grand Parade with a stop there. Down the South Mall and over the City Hall Bridge with a stop there - 2 minute walk from the Bus Station. Down the quay to Albert Quay.



Down Centre Park Rad with a stop at Docklands to cater for the 'future' Docklands development. Further stops at Centre Park Road and Páirc Uí Chaoimh. The line would then use the old Blackrock Railway line with stops at Blackrock Village, the new Eden development, the CSO and terminate at Mahon Point.

The line covers many high people traffic places such as: CIT, Model Farm Road IDA estate, Victoria Cross, UCC, City Centre, South Mall, Páirc Uí Chaoimh, Mahon Point. The line would be approx 11.5km in total.

It could link to a future second line from Blackpool to Douglas via the city centre.

Anyway just put it together for fun because there's no political will to sort out Cork's shambolic public transport system at the moment.

I like your plans, but i would have 2 lines it would be more efficent

dagetz

Cork is not too small for trams. Commute times into cork city are drastically more then they should be and this is due to the lack of public transport. This is what needs to happen.

1) The cork bus system needs to become a subsidery like in Dublin with Dublin Bus. They need to make their own profits and thus need to be profitable. The fares in Cork are way higher then they should be and therefore people avoid using the bus.

2) With regards to a water based transport system. While this is a very interesting purposal for cork moving a boat through water costs a huge amount of fuel. To move 5, 10 or even assuming that a bus would be full 50 people it is way more inefficient then a bus. Where it gets interesting is when you are moving hundreds of people using dual displacement hulls. Then it is fast and quite efficient (like in the bay area in San Fransisco) this system will work VERY well for cork in the future when it is larger as most of the city hubs are on the lee but we do not have the population base for it currently

3) With regards to the luas. Reintroducing a tram in cork city will be difficult. I do not think it is right or in the best intrest of the people to destroy whats left of corks original old railway lines. This is a very unique and beautifull aspect of cork and is used by corkonians far and wide. I myself use it quite often. A lot of the streets in cork are quite small but a one way system would work quite well on the majority of them. I would suggest running a tram down one of the lanes and setting up a one way circuit. I know this could be achieved quite readily on roads like college road where the western road is just below it so a circuit around UCC could be formed. The main hubs that need to be connected are, Ringaskiddy & Carraigaline, Cobh, Mahon, Blackpool

There is already a light rail system running to cobh, this should be made electric and although it would require changing to a different rail I think it would make most sense to keep the trains the same and make it a tram, there is a light rail system to midleton and they are working on extending it to youghal, again I think when they were rebuilding it I think they should have made the rail a Luas width but that can be changed at a later date. Patrick street and grand parade (with the new structuring) are ideal for trams to move through at slow pace unimpeeded by traffic. I think in many ways cork might be easier to "luas-ise" then dublin

corktina

i beg to differ, moving a boat though water is very cost effficent, the problem is it is also very slow.

dagetz

corktina wrote: »

i beg to differ, moving a boat though water is very cost effficent, the problem is it is also very slow.

Obviously you have never had to foot the cost for the tiny engines that power a rib or other such boats which are considerbly lighter then cars. Theres is much more drag on the vessel then a car because you are trying to push it through a liquid rather then a gas. As far as speed goes the double hulled passenger ferries that ferry people across san fran harbour clock up about 30 knots which is quite fast but i dont think you could reach that speed in cork harbour due to the fact that the channel is too narrow in many places.

JHMEG

Last time I was in Cork city I was impressed by the road network. Is there a need for any rail?

dagetz

JHMEG wrote: »

Last time I was in Cork city I was impressed by the road network. Is there a need for any rail?

Quite necessary...commute times are way above what they should be for a city/town of this size and our public transport currently is slow inefficient and expensive. As far as im concerned you public transport can not work on the same pathways/roads as the standard traffic or it will never be faster so people will never use it

Typewriter

dagetz wrote: »

Cork is not too small for trams. Commute times into cork city are drastically more then they should be and this is due to the lack of public transport. This is what needs to happen.

1) The cork bus system needs to become a subsidery like in Dublin with Dublin Bus. They need to make their own profits and thus need to be profitable. The fares in Cork are way higher then they should be and therefore people avoid using the bus.

2) With regards to a water based transport system. While this is a very interesting purposal for cork moving a boat through water costs a huge amount of fuel. To move 5, 10 or even assuming that a bus would be full 50 people it is way more inefficient then a bus. Where it gets interesting is when you are moving hundreds of people using dual displacement hulls. Then it is fast and quite efficient (like in the bay area in San Fransisco) this system will work VERY well for cork in the future when it is larger as most of the city hubs are on the lee but we do not have the population base for it currently

3) With regards to the luas. Reintroducing a tram in cork city will be difficult. I do not think it is right or in the best intrest of the people to destroy whats left of corks original old railway lines. This is a very unique and beautifull aspect of cork and is used by corkonians far and wide. I myself use it quite often. A lot of the streets in cork are quite small but a one way system would work quite well on the majority of them. I would suggest running a tram down one of the lanes and setting up a one way circuit. I know this could be achieved quite readily on roads like college road where the western road is just below it so a circuit around UCC could be formed. The main hubs that need to be connected are, Ringaskiddy & Carraigaline, Cobh, Mahon, Blackpool

There is already a light rail system running to cobh, this should be made electric and although it would require changing to a different rail I think it would make most sense to keep the trains the same and make it a tram, there is a light rail system to midleton and they are working on extending it to youghal, again I think when they were rebuilding it I think they should have made the rail a Luas width but that can be changed at a later date. Patrick street and grand parade (with the new structuring) are ideal for trams to move through at slow pace unimpeeded by traffic. I think in many ways cork might be easier to "luas-ise" then dublin

You are VERY misinformed.

dagetz

green_jesus wrote: »

You are VERY misinformed.

Care to enlighten me?
If you are talking about the light rail system running to cobh i am looking at it out my window currently, They just introduced one to midleton which i know uses the same track because they run on the same rail nearly half the way and if you are talking about things being different widths, that was the whole reason the the dart, luas and normal trains can not use eachothers rails in dublin.

If you are so confident that I am misinformed please enlighten us all on this thread how that is the case exactly

markpb

dagetz wrote: »

If you are talking about the light rail system running to cobh i am looking at it out my window currently

He is talking about different gauges - the two new lines there are heavy rail lines with Irish broad gauge, the same gauge used by Dart, Suburban and InterCity rail stock. The Luas is the only operating light-rail, standard gauge line in the country (that I know of, anyway) and can't inter-operate with the others lines in Dublin or the lines in Cork.

And yet, it doesn't matter. I don't know what the obsession with gauge is on this forum. Passengers don't care. They care about a regular, reliable and reasonably quick way of getting around a city. The width between the wheels doesn't matter a damn. It happens that Luas has a better reputation than Dart but that doesn't mean we should rip up all the heavy rail lines and replace them, the gauge has (almost) no impact on passenger satisfaction.

Stark

bk wrote: »

Believe it or not, DB is vastly superior to the bus service in Cork and would be a vast improvement!!

I say that as a Corkonian living in Dublin.

+1