Comments in the Dail on Airsoft

Spetzcong

Airsofty wrote: »

No goggles - Cheap spriner pistols just the type of thing that will give the sport a bad name if someone looses an eyeball

Nobody's gonna lose an eyeball from being hit in the eye from something the power of a cheap springer pistol. Even a 1 joule AEG won't take out your eye. It would cause some bruising, and I'm sure it would be extremely unpleasant, but for an airsoft device to take someone's eye out it would need to be more powerful than 1.35 joules and hence illegal in the first place.

I think the IAA are doing their best to fight our corner in this and I give them my full support. As far as any restrictions on the sport are concerned I wouldn't like to see anything more severe than what the IAA have already proposed, stricter controls on retailing and a specific crime of brandishing in public should be enough to ensure that kids aren't getting their hands on airsoft devices and people who misuse airsoft devices get met with appropriate punishment.

Airsofty

Thats the point- its all about how its precived by the general public, and if its just a "toy" and harmless..there would be 0 need to imploy such rules around the sale and use of them

Look at some of the laws in other countries....


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_issues_in_airsoft

Rew

Hot AEG discussion is agiant the rules back on topic!

Stercus Accidit

An airsoft gun needs to be re-defined legally, there was some talk of this on the IAA forum.

Then It can be said that you must be a registered retailer to sell an airsoft gun commercially.

Also a replica firearm must be legally defined, and an appropriate offence added onto that for misusing it, and the gardai must be given powers to confiscate or prosecute at their discretion.


With that in place we'll be happy for a while, and without the need to register airsofters or have licences.

The only places allowed to sell the guns will have the say on who gets them, bar private sale.


I know this brings up the issue of online sales, but once you are over 18 that should be enough to be sold one online, any messing around after that, with the legal implications published on the website, is your own fault, and cant be micro managed by legislation.

Frank the Manc

lads this hasnt one thing to do with safety but the fact that the look relistic and may & most certainly are being used by criminals. These clowns couldnt spell one joule never mind grasp what it actually means.

the fact of the matter is that all this is about precieved threats and the need to be seen to be doing anything, they dont give a toss about the sport or the jobs that will be loss as a result of the ban.

they left themselves wide open on this one by not legislating in 2006 because as we all now know tha when you have a place tha sells scales, baggies and all other types of assorted scallywag stuff and they suddenly start selling replicas, be they a dirty WE for €160 or Mac 11 for €200, the types of persons that may frequent such shops wont think any thing of spending a couple of hundred on a shít gun.
if youre knocking out an oz or two of coke every week, thats nothing, walking around money really.

then this lad shows his "glock" to the lad who hes gets his stuff off of, who incidently is a bit more tasty and knows lads who could really put those to good use, that is how they started being used in armed robberies.

even if youre caught youll still looking at a shorter stretch because its a replica & couldnt harm anyone, youre legal aid solicitor can plead this fact alongside youre traumatic childhood as a mitigating factor to be considered during sentencing.

ignoring youtr 30 previous convictions.

retailers shoudl have been licenced from day one, simple as.

chem

No point in fighting it out here folks. Bring your fight to the man who plans to ban your sport. Minister Ahern Department of Justice:

Constituency Office

Dermot Ahern TD

28 Francis Street

Dundalk

Co. Louth

042 9329023



Dáil Office

Dermot Ahern TD

Dáil Éireann

Leinster House

Kildare Street

Dublin 2

01 618 3000



dermot@dermotahern.ie

gandalf

Before you all send off individual messages to Dermot Ahern it might be prudent to wait and see what is said at the IAA AGM and maybe to co-ordinate from there?

Doomofman

gandalf wrote: »

Before you all send off individual messages to Dermot Ahern it might be prudent to wait and see what is said at the IAA AGM and maybe to co-ordinate from there?

Yeah totally, the IAA know what they're doing so no one jump the gun on this

kdouglas

The IAA is currently finalizing a document to be sent to the minister and all other relevant parties, there will be a committee meeting tonight and the document should be sent tomorrow.

fayer

To clarify, and this is not to be taken by anyone as a licence to act the idiot or do anything stupid.

It is not, in it self, an offence under Irish law to produce or carry a replica firearm or anything that would potentially give a reasonable person cause to believe you are carrying or brandishing such, in a public place. (unless used in the course of escaping from Gárda custody or resisting arrest)

****I add again, DONT Take them out in public****

You can, however, be charged for assault for having such devices in public view, but it requires an individual to press changes and the court must satisfied that the person reasonably perceived a threat to them self. As you can imagine, this takes allot, and can prove an issue, plus their is not much case law on it.

The Airsofting community should see this as an issue that will let idiots cause us real problems.

I hope you would support the IAA in saying that a new offence of "carrying or brandishing an imitation firearm, in a public place, in a manner that could reasonably cause distress or harm to others" is a good move for Airsoft.

Yet again DO NOT TAKE THEM OUT IN PUBLIC, this is a mear technical point that needs to be filled, but will put Airsoft on a more solid footing in the eyes of the authorities as it is one of their major concerns.

Steve

Frank the Manc

gandalf wrote: »

Before you all send off individual messages to Dermot Ahern it might be prudent to wait and see what is said at the IAA AGM and maybe to co-ordinate from there?

whilst i see where youre comming from, i think the more emails sent the better, so that they can see that there is more than the IAA & its 100 odd members out there that are going to be affected, mine is sent anyway, i would encourage others to follow suit.

from what i can see it looks like a ban is on the way, one meeting with the opposition serves nothing, they are not in power unfortunately.

gandalf

Frank the Manc wrote: »

whilst i see where youre comming from, i think the more emails sent the better, so that they can see that there is more than the IAA & its 100 odd members out there that are going to be affected, mine is sent anyway, i would encourage others to follow suit.

from what i can see it looks like a ban is on the way, one meeting with the opposition serves nothing, they are not in power unfortunately.

My understanding is there have been other meetings in the background so saying they had one meeting with only the opposition is unfair.

You are of course most welcome to send you own responses. Personally I feel a co-ordinated response via the representative body for players of airsoft would be far more powerful than a bunch of individuals mailing the minister.

I would also ask if anyone does decide to send correspondence to the minister that they keep it civil and polite. (Obviously I am not suggesting that you are anything but that Frank )

TheDoc

Saw this dail script last night and immediatly contacted the iaa. I this morning received a phone call from them replying to me. Aplogies to the lads, as I'm told I kept them up a fair bit last night discussing the issue.

Most of the points relevant have been made here, so I wont repeat them. But from the response I got today, I am in total confidence the situation is been handled perfectly and I'm yet again re assured my airsoft kit will be safe to fight another day.

That €30 for iaa membership was the best money Shiva ever spent :P

And youll be happy to know ive completely calmed down from yesterdays finger mashing contest i had with myself, and I'm not sending any letters to anyone, I'll leave that to the pros.

G3-Nut

Frank the Manc wrote: »

whilst i see where youre comming from, i think the more emails sent the better, so that they can see that there is more than the IAA & its 100 odd members out there that are going to be affected, mine is sent anyway, i would encourage others to follow suit.

from what i can see it looks like a ban is on the way, one meeting with the opposition serves nothing, they are not in power unfortunately.

One man alone with an ill informed point of view cannot ultimately decide the faith of anything, wether it is sport or something else...regardless of how afraid you might be of his rant, that is all it was, a rant...this isnt stalin or hitler were talking about, he would have to provide sufficient proof that airsoft is a direct risk to the people of ireland, and health and safety...and then be backed up by many more than just himself

kdouglas

Yes, just like licensed handgun owners are a significant risk and practical pistol shooting is a means for criminals to train, they deserved to be banned alright....
</sarcasm>

Frank the Manc

gandalf wrote: »

My understanding is there have been other meetings in the background so saying they had one meeting with only the opposition is unfair.

You are of course most welcome to send you own responses. Personally I feel a co-ordinated response via the representative body for players of airsoft would be far more powerful than a bunch of individuals mailing the minister.

I would also ask if anyone does decide to send correspondence to the minister that they keep it civil and polite. (Obviously I am not suggesting that you are anything but that Frank )

i know that there has been problems in the past with trolls & the IAA but i do think that they need to have some bit of an outlet for info on boards, i rarely check their site due to time constraints and the fact that there is little traffic there when compared to other forums.

for many, boards is their first & for some only point of contact regarding airsoft, so i do think they need to keep people updated.
you only need to look at all the members that view proportionate to those who bother their holes posting.

I agree with you whole-heartidly about leters being civil, we dont need to give them any more ammo.

Frank the Manc

G3-Nut wrote: »

One man alone with an ill informed point of view cannot ultimately decide the faith of anything, wether it is sport or something else...regardless of how afraid you might be of his rant, that is all it was, a rant...this isnt stalin or hitler were talking about, he would have to provide sufficient proof that airsoft is a direct risk to the people of ireland, and health and safety...and then be backed up by many more than just himself

he doesnt have to prove a thing, to anyone, hes a politition who can do what he likes, unless kept in check.

Tigger

G3-Nut wrote: »

One man alone with an ill informed point of view cannot ultimately decide the faith of anything, wether it is sport or something else...regardless of how afraid you might be of his rant, that is all it was, a rant...this isnt stalin or hitler were talking about, he would have to provide sufficient proof that airsoft is a direct risk to the people of ireland, and health and safety...and then be backed up by many more than just himself

thats simply untrue i'm afraid

G3-Nut

Frank the Manc wrote: »

he doesnt have to prove a thing, to anyone, hes a politition who can do what he likes, unless kept in check.

there is a lot more to it than just ticking a box

Frank the Manc

G3-Nut wrote: »

there is a lot more to it than just ticking a box

it was the polition being kep in check i was referring to i.e. when theymake a istake as ignorant & ill-informed as this, then they need to be let know, by as a vocal and concentrated means as possible.

G3-Nut

Frank the Manc wrote: »

it was the polition being kep in check i was referring to i.e. when theymake a istake as ignorant & ill-informed as this, then they need to be let know, by as a vocal and concentrated means as possible.

ah my mistake man! yeah i dont disagree with what you did, but i dant agree either, letting them know were here is fine, but having someone like the IAA represent that is also fine, why change a plan that already works

chem

G3-Nut wrote: »

One man alone with an ill informed point of view cannot ultimately decide the faith of anything, wether it is sport or something else...regardless of how afraid you might be of his rant, that is all it was, a rant...this isnt stalin or hitler were talking about, he would have to provide sufficient proof that airsoft is a direct risk to the people of ireland, and health and safety...and then be backed up by many more than just himself

Hi G3. I know where you are coming from. The problem is one man alone CAN and said he WILL ban airsoft. He has the power at the end of a ballpoint pen to make it illegal over night The same minister has banned handguns because of what MIGHT happen some day with the misuse of a licenced handgun. No proof need. No proof of a link between criminal use and licenced pistols. No direct risk to the people of Ireland. He has the power to ban anything he likes and its in law for him to do it.

I dont want this to become a post on real steel. But you can learn from what we are putting up with at the min.

I have emailed the minister several times, called his clinic, invited him to the range.............No reply. Yet he said he cant understand why anyone would want a pistol. Even though he never fired one!! Or talked to anyone who shoots pistols.

What im saying is. The handgun ban came in when, questions were asked of the minister about all the licenced handguns now in the country. This was picked up on by the press. Minister had to act and its us that got it in the neck.

And from joe duffy yesterday to the ministers statement last night on banning airsoft. Its not looking good for either sport.

tonky

Frank the Manc wrote: »

whilst i see where youre comming from, i think the more emails sent the better, so that they can see that there is more than the IAA & its 100 odd members out there that are going to be affected, mine is sent anyway, i would encourage others to follow suit.

from what i can see it looks like a ban is on the way, one meeting with the opposition serves nothing, they are not in power unfortunately.

Totally agree with the above, everyone affected by this should email/contact the Minister asap, word your communication carefully & politely, of course.
The IAA have done sterling work on behalf of its members, now it's time for all of us to make our voices heard.

G3-Nut

chem wrote: »

Hi G3. I know where you are coming from. The problem is one man alone CAN and said he WILL ban airsoft. He has the power at the end of a ballpoint pen to make it illegal over night The same minister has banned handguns because of what MIGHT happen some day with the misuse of a licenced handgun. No proof need. No proof of a link between criminal use and licenced pistols. No direct risk to the people of Ireland. He has the power to ban anything he likes and its in law for him to do it.

I dont want this to become a post on real steel. But you can learn from what we are putting up with at the min.

I have emailed the minister several times, called his clinic, invited him to the range.............No reply. Yet he said he cant understand why anyone would want a pistol. Even though he never fired one!! Or talked to anyone who shoots pistols.

What im saying is. The handgun ban came in when, questions were asked of the minister about all the licenced handguns now in the country. This was picked up on by the press. Minister had to act and its us that got it in the neck.

And from joe duffy yesterday to the ministers statement last night on banning airsoft. Its not looking good for either sport.

I see what you mean mate...time to get back to airsoft tough before we get the thread locked or worse:o

chem

tonky wrote: »

Totally agree with the above, everyone affected by this should email/contact the Minister asap, word your communication carefully & politely, of course.
The IAA have done sterling work on behalf of its members, now it's time for all of us to make our voices heard.

To anyone who thinks to leave it up to the IAA alone. Just think. If you woke up in the morning and had one email from a body saying they represent (lets say 800 people. Dont know figures). Or if you woke up and checked your emails and there were 800 seperate emails. All with "airsoft ban" as the title. Which would you be more worried about as a minister looking for peoples votes???

I have sent an emails against the ban on airsoft and its not my sport. We all stand together now my friends

TerrorFirmer

If something is made illegal overnight, what sort of margin is given to say, retailers? For example, say any particular airsoft shop had 200 varying rifles, what are they expected to do with them? Are they given time to arrange disposing of them aboard, or are they just expected to hand in the 'illegal' items worth thousands upon thousands of euro?

Even on a personal basis....can you imagine the fury if it were made illegal, of having to hand in/over/whatever your aeg collection....

Frank the Manc

make no bones about it, the legislation that will be brought in to ban handguns will also ban or at the very least restrict airsoft ownership.

now is the time to make our voices heard, that goes double if your a RS shooter, regardless of youre view on pistols or what you hold a cert for, this is only the beginning.

im extremely surprised that there isnt more activity on this thread, this is not something that is goin to go away if we just close our eyes and hope the IAA is going to magically sort it all, and i dont meant any offence by that to the IAA.

if you sit back and go "ah sure someone else will do something about it" you will not be in possession of any legally held airsoft this time next year.

G3-Nut

chem wrote: »

To anyone who thinks to leave it up to the IAA alone. Just think. If you woke up in the morning and had one email from a body saying they represent (lets say 800 people. Dont know figures). Or if you woke up and checked your emails and there were 800 seperate emails. All with "airsoft ban" as the title. Which would you be more worried about as a minister looking for peoples votes???

I have sent an emails against the ban on airsoft and its not my sport. We all stand together now my friends

hes a politition guys, hes not gonna read even 10 emails with the same heading, he has someone do all that for him and give him a basic review of it, either way, 800 saperate emails, or one representing 800, hes only gonna get one page to his desk:rolleyes: i personally will not react until it is discussed at the AGM:)

sean.carolan100

If it ment thousands upon thousands of euros worth of aegs would have to be handed up from both retailers and "Skirmishers ( as there so fondly called" , the law would be very hard to pass and would most likely be taken nto the supreme court ( Or sumthing :P)

amaughan

whats the email address for this dude ha