Death Penalty Poll

Shulgin

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

How creepily disturbing that only one-quarter of people think it is immoral....

A person may deserve to die, but no one has the right to kill.

I was thinking the same thing. Killing or torturing them etc solves nothing, and incarceration costs the state a fortune. Make them give something back to society in some way.

TripleAce

The poll is not fair! Votes for "yes" are distributed across 4 options, whereas votes for "No" only across 2 options.

I think a YES-NO poll would do.

I voted YES by the way.

I would also establish a Fascist form of government.

AckwelFoley

TripleAce wrote: »

The poll is not fair! Votes for "yes" are distributed across 4 options, whereas votes for "No" only across 2 options.

I think a YES-NO poll would do.

I voted YES by the way.

I would also establish a Fascist form of government.

This is an AH poll

cornbb

Lyra Shaggy Weapon wrote: »

Not looking to get your banned or any of that crap, it is something that happens on boards a lot. "omg if you think that way then you are stupid" etc etc. I prefer to argue or debate without getting personal, which a lot of people seem to do.

Hmmmmm, a little hypocritical no?... Practice what you preach dude.

Lyra Shaggy Weapon wrote: »

Are people jsut plain stupid or something?

The amount of people going for that job is immence. Be lucky to get any reply at all. Sending out multiple CV's and following them up is not enough to get you a job anymore. It seems that most people in a secure job, or a job for that matter, seems to think that it is piss easy to get a job. Now it will be if you have the education and the experience, unfortunately I graduated in a recession giving me very little experience. Employers once went for someone with experience in full time work, now that experience must be in said sector. TImes have changed and it is not as easy as it once was, ffs, I thought that was common knowledge.

Good for you, unfortunately I do not have the comfort of travelling abroad for work.

I do not know who states if the qualification is recognised or not, but there is a body there for it. Sure if there was none I would have changed my 4 years at college for one of them online degrees which you can buy basically.

Lyra Shaggy Weapon wrote: »

LOL goodluck with that one

I don't understand how so many people are just "stuck in their ways" little ignorant world some of you people live in. Wake up...

Actually I hope your job is not so secure and you need to get another one soon, that would be a right kick in the teeth for you there.

If a qualification is not recognised in a country then what is it worth? Nothing, saying that the person may still be able to do the duty, but goodluck with no FETAC etc etc.

Lyra Shaggy Weapon wrote: »

You are as ignorant as the sun is bright...

I don't sit on my hole all day drinking tea in my PJ's. firstly I do not wear PJ's. If you think that agencies are the good samaritans and want to help people, well I suggest you crawl back into your hole and think how secure your cushy little public sector job is. Agencies advertise "hollow" jobs or jobs that are already taken, or let me simplify it further for your barin to manage, THEY LIE

I have no doubt in my mind that the jobs are there, but what we have here is more competition and applications for the same job. I went for an interview 2 weeks ago, there were 18 interviews for ONE position. 6% or something? Yea it's easy to get a job alright.

Goodluck to the poles... how soon are they going exactly?

thelordofcheese

Lyra Shaggy Weapon wrote: »

Considering that you need to be 100% in a criminal court and not like a civil court. The chances of a serial rapist or murderer not getting caught and an innocent victim being presecuted is almost non existant. For a death sentence you must be 100% without a doubt. Not like sending somebody to prison.

The term is "beyond reasonable doubt", which acknowledges that we can never be '100%' certain in anything. The goal you've set is impossible to reach and highlights exactly why your argument is fundimentally flawed. It assumed a complete knowledge that does not exist.

also, this

The chances of a serial rapist or murderer not getting caught and an innocent victim being presecuted is almost non existant

I'm calling bullshit on that.

mountainyman

TripleAce wrote: »

The poll is not fair! Votes for "yes" are distributed across 4 options, whereas votes for "No" only across 2 options.

I think a YES-NO poll would do.

I voted YES by the way.

I would also establish a Fascist form of government.

I set the Poll up and I am pro death penalty.

slipss

mountainyman wrote: »

It is much cheaper than life meaning life imprisonment. China eliminated opium addiction through large scale use of the death penalty in the 1950s. Ireland could do the same to heroin addiction.

China did a lot of things since the end of the second world war my friend, and the rewards were great, destroyed the opium market in the country, produced one of the fastest growing economies in the world, developed a space program and nuclear technology, and all this with out maiming, killing, detaining or oppressing a single innocent perso........ohhh, wait.









You may want to choose someone else to be your shining light of how these kinds of measures in a country make it better.

TripleAce

mountainyman wrote: »

I set the Poll up and I am pro death penalty.

Spread the "NO" across several options, and leave the "YES" into 1 consolidated option....it will, make the % of yes look better, trust me

slipss

Lyra Shaggy Weapon wrote: »

That is something I never understood. Rape seems to be viewed as a lesser crime with armed robbers getting larger sentences.

It's to do with governments viewing crimes against the state and the system as deserving of worse punishments than crimes against the individual, if someone is raped they will in alot of cases still go on to produce a lifetime of tax, if a bank gets robbed of a million quid that money is gone from the system forever, but that's going wildly of topic.

Alot of good points in the rest of you're post.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Calling someone ignorant is not an insult, seriously. Saying I should drop my pitchfork does. Ignorance = lack of knowledge.

Yea ok I may have questioned peoples intelligence, asking if they were stupid. No direct insult there, nor was anybody targeted.

I also didn't insult someone because they didn't view my opinion to be the be all and end all...

Lordofcheese, you're right it's impossible to be 100% about anything. Take a look at the discovery channel though, some of them criminals do NOT deserve to live. Watch it and tell me they do.

You know something that I would like to see? Instead of the normal prison and the death penalty? Hard labour, where they work and build things and repay society for their wrong doings. Life of hard labour would;t be a bad thing, now would it? Oh wait there's the constitution and the human rights activists... pfft!!!

thelordofcheese

Lyra Shaggy Weapon wrote: »

Lordofcheese, you're right it's impossible to be 100% about anything. Take a look at the discovery channel though, some of them criminals do NOT deserve to live. Watch it and tell me they do.

They do.
Or rather, they do not deserve to die in order to make you feel better.

Lyra Shaggy Weapon wrote: »

You know something that I would like to see? Instead of the normal prison and the death penalty? Hard labour, where they work and build things and repay society for their wrong doings. Life of hard labour would;t be a bad thing, now would it? Oh wait there's the constitution and the human rights activists... pfft!!!

Yes, what a terrible system we have, were we don't have the state murder and torture people just to keep fickle, blood hungry mobs happy.
It's all so awful!

biko

Hanging? How crude.
Injection is where it's at.

cornbb

Lyra Shaggy Weapon wrote: »

Calling someone ignorant is not an insult, seriously. Saying I should drop my pitchfork does. Ignorance = lack of knowledge.

Yea ok I may have questioned peoples intelligence, asking if they were stupid. No direct insult there, nor was anybody targeted.

I also didn't insult someone because they didn't view my opinion to be the be all and end all...

Oh come on, do you want me to quote you in even bigger letters?

Just to repeat, you said in this thread:

I prefer to argue or debate without getting personal, which a lot of people seem to do.

In one example from several other threads today, you said:

You are as ignorant as the sun is bright...

How is that not a direct, targeted personal insult?

Come off it. Being able to argue properly includes the ability to back up statements (not opinions) that you have made with facts, and the ability to admit when your bullsh*t bluff has been called. You can clearly do neither.

JaneyMc

I never used to agree with the death penalty, but then I read about Josef Fritzel. In extreme cases where the victim of the crime suffers severe trauma/torture resulting in death and there is an air tight case, I say lock them up in solitary confinement for 10 years then stick the needle in their arm.

Zynks

If only there was a way to get an island where it was absolutely impossible to escape where serious criminals could be sent to live for ever and let them try to establish whatever sort of society they want, produce their own food and look after themselves...wait, isn't that how Australia started?

The big problem here is that some people are and remain a serious threat to society. They don't deserve to be part of any civilised society, nor should it cost large amounts of money to keep them away.

In my view, a person convicted for a serious crime against other humans has no rights. As a means to deter criminals, Irish jails are a joke. I personally resent to know that so much of money that could be used in schools and looking after the elderly is going to pay for well documented luxuries (in jail terms) available to people that will never have anything positive to add to society.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Zynks wrote: »

If only there was a way to get an island where it was absolutely impossible to escape where serious criminals could be sent to live for ever and let them try to establish whatever sort of society they want, produce their own food and look after themselves...wait, isn't that how Australia started?

The big problem here is that some people are and remain a serious threat to society. They don't deserve to be part of any civilised society, nor should it cost large amounts of money to keep them away.

In my view, a person convicted for a serious crime against other humans has no rights. As a means to deter criminals, Irish jails are a joke. I personally resent to know that so much of money that could be used in schools and looking after the elderly is going to pay for well documented luxuries (in jail terms) available to people that will never have anything positive to add to society.

Theres arcatraz :P Or we could ship them off to bear island in cork and have the army keep an eye on them Wait... use them as "enemy" in live fire exercises... that would be sweet

greyed

mountainyman wrote: »

I set the Poll up and I am pro death penalty.

You would'nt mind your taxes being used to kill people. Nice.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

cornbb wrote: »

Oh come on, do you want me to quote you in even bigger letters?

Just to repeat, you said in this thread:


In one example from several other threads today, you said:


How is that not a direct, targeted personal insult?

Come off it. Being able to argue properly includes the ability to back up statements (not opinions) that you have made with facts, and the ability to admit when your bullsh*t bluff has been called. You can clearly do neither.

Hold on, you take the word "ignorant" as an insult? It's not meant to be an insult. No offence but tangents? Do we need to continue about this? on and on and on... it definately is getting tired and boring.

As for the other posters inserting words and twisting my sentences... cop on. I never said torture. Nor did I say murder.

Murder: "unlawful premeditated killing of a human being by a human being "

We are talking about lawfully killing someone as a result of repeatedly commiting a serious offence, like rape or murder.

As Cornbb has said, it is cheaper to have someone locked up for life. Yet if that person does in fact get a chance for parole, is released back into society and reoffends, then what? Shouldn't get that chance.

Also. As for being guilty beyond a doubt. Take this scenario. Man and woman abduct women for their sexual pleasure, film it and then murder the victim. Tapes are found and the man and woman are arrested. Woman admits to it and gets 12 years for killing 3 people, one of them is her fcuking sister, (which she only gets 2 years for) I think the guy got life, but he raped and killed more women. Now the woman who served 12 years in prison is now out, she is in her 40's and has a normal life, she even has a child (maybe more now) Tell me that is wrong. This woman helped this man abduct many many women for that mans sexual pleasure... 12 years... 12 short years for taking 3 lifes and ruining many more.

Èibhear

Cianos wrote: »

Nice way to explain your points. Anyway...

Cost: It costs more to execute someone than to keep them in prison for the rest of their lives.

I would say that it is fairly cheap to execute someone. For example
Lethal Injection Consists Of:

• Sodium Thiopental (lethal dose - sedates person)
• Pancuronium Bromide (muscle relaxant-collapses diaphragm and lungs)
• Potassium Chloride (stops heart beat)
• The offender is usually pronounced dead approximately 7 minutes after the lethal injection begins.

Cost per execution for drugs used : $86.08

Now I am not sure how much it costs someone to support someone for 10, 20, 30, 40 years in prison, but it has to be more then $86.08.....
Some people argue there are more costs to it but it can be made very cheap. Grab inmate, strap him to a table, spend the $86 on the drugs, inject him.. wallah, much cheaper.

Deterrent: It is widely shown that the death penalty is not a very effective deterrent. The main reason being that most people who commit serious crimes are mentally unstable and thus are not really mindful of the consequences of their actions.

Well, if they weren't mentally stable, and weren't in control of themselves then they shouldn't receive the death penalty as that is a legal defense.
The people who are often charged commit crimes with intent, planning, detail, etc. No one can really say how many people it has deterred because there probably isn't a very reliable poll for such a question. I would imagine it would be quite a few. Prison does NOT scare alot of people, especially repeat offenders who often feel more comfortable in prison then on the outside (ie institutionalized), but no one wants to be on Death Row. So if someone knows that he isn't going to be staying at the Govie in with cable TV, cooks, weight rooms, laundry service, etc... but in a small cell by himself waiting to die, he might re-think his actions.

Revenge: Ok, you want the law system to be built around a philosophy of revenge? Good luck with that one, we'll see how long it lasts. So you think it's ok to risk executing innocent people just so victims can exact revenge (on what could sometimes be the wrong person)? Executing the criminal is not going to take the memory of the crime away, it only gives a temporary outlet of relief for the victim or the victims family.

I don't believe in revenge being a part of capital punishment. When you take it along that road, you risk becoming no better then the person on trial. Thats not to say that the victims of the family cannot feel relief from the punisment, but it shouldn't be the intention of the courts.

"God instituted Capital Punishment for the crime of murder (Genesis 9:5-6), which was singled out as an attack upon God himself and the most serious offense. "

"There were 36 separate offenses throughout the Old Testament (Book of Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, & Deuteronomy) that were punishable by death including Murder (no pity), rape, sacrificing to false gods, and so on. We can find instances of execution being carried out in the Bible (e.g., Leviticus 24:10-16). It was practiced both in ancient Israel (as reflected in the Old Testament) and in Judea in the first century (as reflected in the New Testament). Execution was given theological justification, both in the Old & New Testament. The Pentateuchal rationale for capital punishment was not basically in terms of societal order, and thus modern utilitarian values (e.g., does it deter?) have no bearing on the validity of the biblical attitude toward the penalty even though the Bible states it does deter (Deuteronomy 19:20; also see: Eccles. 8:11). The motive for capital punishment was not human desire for vengeance (retribution)"

Finality: Same as above.

Organ Harvesting: :rolleyes:

Im not sure if that is really possible, atleast with the lethal injection and gas chamber. It would be nice, I am sure some family out there would appreciate it to no end, but the donor would have to agree, and the risk of poisoning would have to be eliminated in order to work

Just my .02

dfx-

Don't want to repeat meself from the previous threads..I'm pro death penalty and don't take too seriously the people who are not but advocate making people's lives unbearable with life terms, solitary confinement or any otherwise termed state-sponsored cruelty imposed for life on another human being. Revenge dressed up in its most reprehensibly cold blooded form.

JaneyMc wrote: »

I never used to agree with the death penalty, but then I read about Josef Fritzel. In extreme cases where the victim of the crime suffers severe trauma/torture resulting in death and there is an air tight case, I say lock them up in solitary confinement for 10 years then stick the needle in their arm.

But are you sure he did it? Can the legal system be sure it wasn't someone else? [/standard legal flaw excuse]

gebbel

I want the animal from Galway who murdered the Swiss girl executed. Can't get it out of my head a year later

mountainyman

She was her parent's only child.

MM

galwayrush

gebbel wrote: »

I want the animal from Galway who murdered the Swiss girl executed. Can't get it out of my head a year later

If that bastard was executed for a previous murder, that Swiss girl would be alive today.

chrussell

greyed wrote: »

You would'nt mind your taxes being used to kill people. Nice.

Have you read some of this guys quotes??? I doubt he pays taxes

dan719

OctavarIan wrote: »

Did I mention torture? I just said the lethal injection was too soft a way to go out. There are many ways to quickly and cleanly kill someone without it being classified as torture.

Can you back that up? The lethal injection is currently being challenged in the USA under 'cruel and inhuman punishment' and it is looking increasingly likely it will be abandoned. The rationale is that those most likely to be skilled in the use of the required equipment to carry out the execution,i.e those with medical training are forbidden from directly taking part in any execution, the prolonging of the process (in some cases it can take up to an hour to find a suitable vein) falls under the definition of needle torture.

sillysasauge

The pro-death penality people aren't interested in justice, they want revenge and that's a ****ty basis for a legal system.

inpornitrust

ordinary_story wrote: »

no - but I'm all for capital punishment and hard labour, bring back the stocks

defo and public beatings 50 lashes for wearing white socks with a tracksuit tucked inside them:D

thelordofcheese

sillysasauge wrote: »

The pro-death penality people aren't interested in justice, they want revenge and that's a ****ty basis for a legal system.

Hey! gimme back my post!

greyed

chrussell wrote: »

Have you read some of this guys quotes??? I doubt he pays taxes

I dont like state murder. Must be 12.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

sillysasauge wrote: »

The pro-death penality people aren't interested in justice, they want revenge and that's a ****ty basis for a legal system.

People opposed the death penalty are tree huggers and hippies... Peace out man. Why do people insult those who vote for something? "OMG people who vote for the opposition are braindead nutjobs" It's sad, really is... I respect your decision, I may not agree with it but I don't bash you for it.

If you took the time to read the thread (I understand this may be difficult as it is long) you would see that we are not out for blood and revenge, but the death penalty could act as a preventative method for crime.... COULD

inpornitrust wrote: »

defo and public beatings 50 lashes for wearing white socks with a tracksuit tucked inside them:D

What is with that style, seriously... It's hidious.

greyed wrote: »

Must be 12.

What? What are you talking about? 12 eggs?