3X12 "Our Father" ***Caution may contain Spoilers***

Sarn

Cuddleworthy wrote: »

also how did Arthur manage go back in time?
If he didn't take Hiro's power...

He used Peter's time travelling ability. Like other people I enjoyed this episode (apart from Arthur going back, how the hell did he pinpoint the time so perfectly?). Amazingly I thought Claire was good for a change.

11811

ah yeah, silly me!:o getting a bit head-melting trying to remember who the hell can do what...

eVeNtInE

This post has been deleted.

mewso

Ah that old nutshell. If someone mistakes you for the new member of staff (chef, gardener, driver) the real new member of staff conveniently never turns up.

Johnny Bitte

Sarn wrote: »

how the hell did he pinpoint the time so perfectly?

Was thinking of this my self. I can only assume he s a wizard?!?!?!?

First the fact he went back at all? I mean at what point did he find out hiro went back in time at all and then that he was in that exact place a that exact time.

I know its tv and sci fi but it truely is lazy lazy writing.

hussey

a real spoiler

Aurther will be in next week's episode, whether in the past or present day, I don't know!

Derek Coleman

If Heroes never introduced Time Travel or Power Swapping then this show would still be credible. But its a mess. An entertaining mess but a mess.

Here's a shout for why I think Peter will get his power back soon. The cut on his face is very noticable. Seems like its set up to give us visual confirmation of Peter's return to power.

calex71

ok ok just finished watching this and I ask you good people are the casting directors and writers on drugs?

The handing out of abilites thing ? And the guy how played the soldier they injected? Only now do i see the parallel in plot to heroes and the 4400.

They can't be that stupid, so the casting of a 4400 actor had to have been by intention. my question is why draw attention to the fact that the giving out of abilities was ripped off from the 4400? and then place an actor from that show in heroes ? said actor got his abilites in 4400 in the very same manor !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and here he is http://www.tvrage.com/person/id-37097/Chad+Faust

_CreeD_

What a weak episode in a season that's been very hit and miss. Time paradoxes, overplay for dramatic scenes (oh look it's Sylar and he's appeared out of the blue in this large room and we didnt' notice because we were busy thinking of killing Daddy), more Sylar character russian-roulette (it doesn't matter how well he pulls it off the writing on this is awful, all this mother/father/not mother/father, good/bad/neutral/really bad crap is worse than a soap opera). At this stage if they don't have a spectacular turnaround before the end of the season I won't be watching 4. Not to mention Hiro, a once cool developing character is now nothing more than an annoying semi-comedic break.
Season 1 was great because it didn't make the same old stupid mistakes and cliches, where did that go?

mewso

The_Goose135 wrote: »

Was thinking of this my self. I can only assume he s a wizard?!?!?!?

First the fact he went back at all? I mean at what point did he find out hiro went back in time at all and then that he was in that exact place a that exact time.

I know its tv and sci fi but it truely is lazy lazy writing.

Probably did a white-eyed maniacal drawing of it...which included a clock and calendar on the wall in the room he drew.

AlmightyCushion

With regards to sylar not being affected by the Hatian. I think what happened was that the Hatian lost control and could no longer block powers, at this exact millisecond Sylar just happened to appear and used his telekewhatsit to hold Arthur and the bullet in place. Still rediculous how well he timed it.

Sylar scenes were pretty good but overall it's not great. So much worse than the show I couldn't get enough of in season 1.

gazzer

One thing that I thought was really stupid last night was Ando wanting to use the serum so that he could go back in time to rescue Hiro. Did I miss the episode where a person could pick what power he/she wanted?

oeb

gazzer wrote: »

One thing that I thought was really stupid last night was Ando wanting to use the serum so that he could go back in time to rescue Hiro. Did I miss the episode where a person could pick what power he/she wanted?

They stated something earlier in the episode alluding to the fact that they could pick powers (At pinehurst)

Ste05

I completely agree there are huge holes in the plot, but I enjoy it for what it is, mindless fun, and IMO it's great to have the old Sylar back!!

Sarn wrote: »

He used Peter's time travelling ability. Like other people I enjoyed this episode (apart from Arthur going back, how the hell did he pinpoint the time so perfectly?). Amazingly I thought Claire was good for a change.

If you think about it, no-one knew where the Catalyst went, all everyone knew was that on the day Hiro's mother died she gave the Catalyst to someone (no-one knew who) but they would have known the rough time and date.

And until Hiro went back in time there was No Catalyst, it's sketchy but somewhat explainable. i.e. until Hiro reaches the age of (whatever he is now) there is no Catalyst because it's not in his mother anymore and it doesn't go to anyone else until the young version of Hiro travels back in time. All Arthur had to do was travel back in time with the powers he stole from Peter, and the invisibility power he also got from Peter to wait to see who gets the Power and then take it back.

Now there are obviously HUGE leaks in that story e.g. why didn't he just go back and take the catalyst from Hiro's Mum (when she was sick) before she gave them away but meh, they need to write something, maybe he needed to take Hiro's Powers away from him and so had to time it just so???

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

With regards to sylar not being affected by the Hatian. I think what happened was that the Hatian lost control and could no longer block powers, at this exact millisecond Sylar just happened to appear and used his telekewhatsit to hold Arthur and the bullet in place. Still rediculous how well he timed it.

Sylar scenes were pretty good but overall it's not great. So much worse than the show I couldn't get enough of in season 1.

What I think happened there was that the Haitian was concentrating solely on Arthur (remember he was falling down and saying he was too powerful), so when Sylar arrived the Haitian didn't have enough strength to keep both Sylar and Arthur powerless, so left Sylar alone but kept Arthur powerless, he even said "Arthur had to die" or something like that, hence he left Sylar alone. So Sylar wanted to know the truth, found it out and let Arthur die.

User45701

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

With regards to sylar not being affected by the Hatian. I think what happened was that the Hatian lost control and could no longer block powers, at this exact millisecond Sylar just happened to appear and used his telekewhatsit to hold Arthur and the bullet in place. Still rediculous how well he timed it.

Sylar scenes were pretty good but overall it's not great. So much worse than the show I couldn't get enough of in season 1.

Sorry but that cant be it, we have seen 2 people with powers fighting, sylar and peter can both use there telikenisis at the same time and hiro can teleport while being telikenisised (not a word)

anyway from what we have seen so far arther should have been able to either shove sylar back or else teleport away and he didnt meaning the hiatian can now choose who his powers effect, its a conscious effort - even though evidence to date suggests it is simply a effect he emits and the thing he does by choice is memory wipes

The Don

Ste05 wrote: »

I completely agree there are huge holes in the plot, but I enjoy it for what it is, mindless fun, and IMO it's great to have the old Sylar back!!

I just turned off my brain and watched it not expecting much but I really enjoyed it. It really was mindless fun. Sylar's one liners cracked me up .

It did fall apart once Arthur turned up in the past.

Ste05 wrote: »

What I think happened there was that the Haitian was concentrating solely on Arthur (remember he was falling down and saying he was too powerful), so when Sylar arrived the Haitian didn't have enough strength to keep both Sylar and Arthur powerless, so left Sylar alone but kept Arthur powerless, he even said "Arthur had to die" or something like that, hence he left Sylar alone. So Sylar wanted to know the truth, found it out and let Arthur die.

I agree, the Hatian was too putting all his focus on containing Artur to even notice Sylar and then too drained/wanted Artur dead to stop Sylar.

Sad to see Elle gone though

Nervous Wreck

calex71 wrote: »

ok ok just finished watching this and I ask you good people are the casting directors and writers on drugs?

The handing out of abilites thing ? And the guy how played the soldier they injected? Only now do i see the parallel in plot to heroes and the 4400.

They can't be that stupid, so the casting of a 4400 actor had to have been by intention. my question is why draw attention to the fact that the giving out of abilities was ripped off from the 4400? and then place an actor from that show in heroes ? said actor got his abilites in 4400 in the very same manor !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and here he is http://www.tvrage.com/person/id-37097/Chad+Faust

I've never watched The 4400 but I reckon (from what you're saying anyway), they're both ripping off the super-soldier project from the Captain America comics...... I think Nathan even used the phrase "super-soldier project".......

Fysh

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

I've never watched The 4400 but I reckon (from what you're saying anyway), they're both ripping off the super-soldier project from the Captain America comics...... I think Nathan even used the phrase "super-soldier project".......

Nathan did specifically use the phrase "super-soldier project", but in fairness at this point I don't think you can call it "ripping off" - it's been in popular culture for nearly 70 years.

Having watched the 4400, it's a less impressive and more grounded exploration of what would happen if people started developing superpowers. The first mini-series is well worth checking out, although bear in mind that:

a) the third seasonis a bit ropey (although it does return to quality by the end), and
b) the series was cancelled after season 4 without an overall conclusion (I'm guessing the writers were planning for a final 5th season to wrap it all up, but that's not happening now, sadly).

Volvagia

started well, and was a little bit better than most but Arthur in the past and the power inconsistincies ruined it.

Sloppy writing, i don't like the way powers change to suit the plot. And the dodgy time travel yet again.

I haven't really enjoyed this season that much, and chances are depending on how it ends i might not bother with the next one.

at least sylar was mildly entertaining.

Mr. K

Arthur has an annoying part of the show generally. His powers make him omnipontent, but he just doesn't seem threatening enough! Even though his death was a bit pathetic and forced, I don't really want him to come back unless he gets a little scarier.

Okay, regarding the healer's deaths. After Future Claire killed Future Peter (in the future!), I kinda assumed that Claire is a super healer of sorts: the others get a lesser version of her power. Adam didn't seem quite as unkillable as her, so Arthur's healing power wasn't as effective. Peter's version isn't as powerful as Claire's either.

Sylar's changing personality really does seem forced, it's like the writers realised that he's not nearly as effective when he's not murderous. It sucks that Elle died, but we're better off with bad Sylar!

Despite it's massive inconsistency, I've really enjoyed the last few episodes! Funny how Loeb's Red Hulk was mentioned several times too...

Nervous Wreck

Fysh wrote: »

Nathan did specifically use the phrase "super-soldier project", but in fairness at this point I don't think you can call it "ripping off" - it's been in popular culture for nearly 70 years.

Yeah I'll take that.

Ivan

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

For Tim Kring to say that time travel is a bane of television writing, he seems increasingly dependent on it to thread his storylines together.

I was watching "Star Trek: Generations" the other day on Sky (Don't hit me, I hadn't seen it in ages) and the writers dug themselves into a similar mess. Picard ended up in this "Nexus" (place where time has no meaning, actually he might have been transported to an episode of heroes) and decides he has to go back and stop Malcolm McDowell's bad guy. Instead of saying "Actually, I'll go back to before my brother and nephew died, warn them to stay away from any fireplaces and then stop Soran before he blows up the first sun" he makes it impossibly hard and says "No, I have a better idea, send me back to the mountain top, after he has done most of the damage and leave me in a race against the clock to stop him!"

Sure, for dramatic purposes Picard chose the right option, but part of drama is believability, in spite of the medium being science-fiction or fantasy, the characters must be believable and have very human motivations. What Picard did was what Heroes has been doing all season: Make the unbelievable choice to further the plot, but in doing so removes any real credibility from the story.

I thought the episode was ok, but the constant time travel and incredible coincidences are becoming less interesting and more desperate. I would believe it more if Daphne just ran really fast around the earth and reversed time by reversing its spin around the sun.

I only wish I could Thank you twice. Brilliant analogy and fantastic analysis of what was wrong with Generations and a running issue with Heroes. Post of the forum, imho

DirkVoodoo

*takes a bow*

Mark Hamill

User45701 wrote: »

Sorry but that cant be it, we have seen 2 people with powers fighting, sylar and peter can both use there telikenisis at the same time and hiro can teleport while being telikenisised (not a word)

Is that a typo? Hiro couldn't teleport away when Arthur held with telekinesis (did he teleport out of someone elses telekinetic hold before?)

Okay, regarding the healer's deaths. After Future Claire killed Future Peter (in the future!), I kinda assumed that Claire is a super healer of sorts: the others get a lesser version of her power. Adam didn't seem quite as unkillable as her, so Arthur's healing power wasn't as effective.

Really? Adam was shot full of arrows, stabbed with swords, blown up and left in a coffin for a period of time (few days at least) and still survived. In fact his powers where constently keeping alive (he was 400 odd years old), thats why he disintergrated when Arthur took them. The other powers Arthur takes don't seem to be any weaker (remember he actually takes the entire power from his victims, Peter only mimmicks them). He really should have regenerated after he was shot (he was only shot in the head, it was supposed to be base of the spine to kill him).

Sylar's changing personality really does seem forced, it's like the writers realised that he's not nearly as effective when he's not murderous. It sucks that Elle died, but we're better off with bad Sylar!

Elles death didn't make any sense though, Sylar already had her power, there was no need for Sylar to open her head to get her power so there should have been no compulsion to do so, unless the writers are saying he's a psychotic killer anyway, which wouldn't make any sense as he told Peter he wouldn't hurt him because he had nothing he wanted. Actually that reminds me, why didn't he take the Haitins power? There was a big juicy power waiting to be taken there when the Haitin was debilitated (two even) and yet he ignored him completely!

My god! The writing in this show is as consistent as a bi-polar schizophrenic with multiple personalities!

tvnutz

I too noticed the actor from the 4400 and it reminded me how much better the 4400 dealt with this storyline. I don't think Heroes "ripped it off",as i'd say the idea of giving powers to others has probably been in other shows or comic books etc.

But the 4400 did it really well,especially with the whole 50-50 aspect of it. Take the show of promicin (stuff that gave you powers) and you either had a 50% chance of getting a power or 50% chance of dying.

User45701

Mark Hamill wrote: »

Is that a typo? Hiro couldn't teleport away when Arthur held with telekinesis (did he teleport out of someone elses telekinetic hold before?)

season 1 - sylar and he teleported away
season 2 - did it happen again when hiro tried to kill adam in season 2?

Mark Hamill wrote: »

Elles death didn't make any sense though, Sylar already had her power, there was no need for Sylar to open her head to get her power so there should have been no compulsion to do so, unless the writers are saying he's a psychotic killer anyway, which wouldn't make any sense as he told Peter he wouldn't hurt him because he had nothing he wanted. Actually that reminds me, why didn't he take the Haitins power? There was a big juicy power waiting to be taken there when the Haitin was debilitated (two even) and yet he ignored him completely!

My god! The writing in this show is as consistent as a bi-polar schizophrenic with multiple personalities!

Very good point

You also just made me realise that claire is in fact dead, or should not be alive we assumed when sylar was tlaking with her head open at the beginning of this season when he said you are special and he couldent kill her ect. she was special because of the catalist, since she does not have it either she should have died there or else sylar didnt get to her to get her power.

Full_Circle

The_Goose135 wrote: »

Angela "I m you mommy"
Sylar "I ll be good so"
Daddy Patrelli "I m your daddy"
Sylar "I ll be bad for you"

discovers there not

"Rarrragh I m evil again"

Love that

Its got to the point now where I feel like there almost too many things to complain about.

When Arthur turned up in the past, my first thought was "wtf, he cant time-travel", but I completely forgot he got all of Peters powers when he sucked him dry. But being aware of exactly where and when the catalyst manifested seemed a bit hokey.

Ste05 wrote: »

If you think about it, no-one knew where the Catalyst went, all everyone knew was that on the day Hiro's mother died she gave the Catalyst to someone (no-one knew who) but they would have known the rough time and date.

I'm sorry, but when was it revealed that Hiros mother was the person who bestowed the catalyst on someone else? I thought the only thing people knew was that Hiros father hid the catalyst somewhere.

And while we're on that point.........even though Claire correctly guessed that the catalyst was being hidden inside of HER, everyone just took her wildly self-important and random guess at face value. No one tested her for it or even tried to extract it from her. Why not take it from her and put it into someone with decent powers? I guess since Hiro/Arthur/No-one has it now, that makes no difference.

And when it comes to Hiro, how come whenever he promises he can do something, he almost immediately and spectacularly FAILS at doing it? This must be the fifth or sixth time he's been charged with some task and he always ends up cocking it up.

Hiro obviously makes it back from the past, or else there'd have been a much OLDER and powerless Hiro wandering about the present day, doing nothing to instruct his bumbling, mindless younger self :rolleyes:

Even though she was the ****tiest of characters, I will miss Elle, for no other reason than that I love Kristen Bell. Her death was a blunt instrument used to spin Sylars character around on its head once again.

Finally, I hated how easily Arthur was done away with. If he doesn't somehow manage to regenerate and go on a killing spree, I'll be sorely disappointed :pac:


And wow, I didnt realise that the board edited out our swear works automagically! I thought people just did that out of kindness for the easily offended!!!

Mr.Nice Guy

I thought it was a good episode. I hope Arthur has been killed off as I'd become fed up with the character being rammed down our throats every episode. It's good to see Sylar back on form and far removed from the anti-hero bollocks of a few episodes back.

The only thing I didn't like was the Captain America storyline. I don't think the show needs another meathead and the super strength power I felt showed a lack of imagination.

Not a fantastic episode, but for this season anyway I think it ranks highly.

The series finale is next week yeah?

Overheal

User45701 wrote: »

that was absoulte ****e

if daddy patrelli could not use his powrs to stop the bulet and sylar could use his and the fact that he is the sylar we know and love again he should have taken patrelli's powers instead of just killing him.

*sigh*

its complications like this that were bound to arise from peter and sylar as characters, that they originally wanted new heroes focused on every season.

mikeruurds

This show is degenerating into a pile of crud. Season 1 was great and it's been downhill ever since. Way too many inconsistencies.

What a shame.