3X12 "Our Father" ***Caution may contain Spoilers***

pyramuid man

Angela sends peter to kill Arthur with the Haitian, The catalyst is revealed and falls into the wrong hands. Sylar surprises this week with a humourous performance

Just seen it and was not too impressed.

Sylar was pretty entertaining I have to say.

Also Starring LeVar Burton

***Can we get a poll added and spoiler warning in thread title***

That was one of the best episodes ever - if not the best.

loved the scene between Hiro and his mother - very moving altogether

Nervous Wreck

The episode was decent until the appearance of Arthur in the past. Then it all went crap. Arthur's death was also very anti-climactic. Some of Sylar's lines were really weak but luckily Zachary Quinto is a ****ing boss actor and managed to pull it off. Was so hoping that Peter would get his powers back. The marine is super strong but who cares? So is Sylar, Mohinder, Knox and, formerly, Peter and Niki.

User45701

that was absoulte ****e

if daddy patrelli could not use his powrs to stop the bulet and sylar could use his and the fact that he is the sylar we know and love again he should have taken patrelli's powers instead of just killing him.

*sigh*

pyramuid man

Please use spoiler tags when talking about scenes in the show.

What happens to the catalyst

AdMMM

It was all going fine until about 15 minutes from the end. Arthurs appearance in the past was just terrible!

MatthewVII

It doesn't make sense that Arthur be dead for good, considering that both Sylar and Claire came back from the dead with their regeneration powers. Since the Haitian left at the end of the episode, shouldn't arthur be able to heal back to life?

DEmeant0r

Matthew,

Angela said that a bullet to the head would permanently kill a healer.

Derek Coleman

Ok one problem at a time people! Arthur got a bullet to the brain which we are told will kill a regeneration hero.
I agree that the episode was going great until Arthur took Hiro's power.

Now for a prediction...... Sylar is the most powerful thing on the planet now. So the only person to stop him would be Arthur. So remove the bullet from his head with a long nosed pliers and Arthur is back. And Maybe we'll see a team up of The Petrelli's now.

Just a guess.... Did you see The glow of smoke or whatever coming out of Arthur when he died? It looked like the Catalyst smoke but could that be all the powers he stole returning to the people he stole them from? We'll wait and see.

How can Matt and Ando run with Daphne? Did she carry them? Lazy lazy writers.

MatthewVII

DEmeant0r wrote: »

Matthew,

Angela said that a bullet to the head would permanently kill a healer.

that's true. My bad. I should really pay attention to things before ranting

wandatowell

I thought it was a great episode considering the past few have been touch and go

Derek Coleman

Strange question to ask people here but whats going on with Claires hair? Why does it look so odd like its a wig? It just doesn't look right. Isn't it funny the way things turn out.... the one character you want to die can't! :rolleyes:

EKRIUQ

I thought it was quite a good episode, instead of everything happening at 100 miles per hour. Some good scenes but hopefully back to action packed next episode.

Off topic:
Why is everything in spoilers? ruins the thread, this is a disscusion on the above episode not of future episodes

seraphimvc

time paradox anyone?:pac:

catalyst?the term 'magic' suits better.....wtf with that light...

awful haytian + peter-dad-ultimate-boss-cant-use-his-power +nonsense-dumbly-get-killed-by-sylar scenes - my IQ is not that low ffs

*sigh*i havent watched heroes for few weeks so i have no idea what happened.i am so regret now - watched this sh!te when i was bored just now online

the marine-super-army-reminds-me-of-xman/marvelcomic is completely put me off for watching it in future.

but good sylar acting tho:pac:feels like he is the only reason i might give Heroes a go some day

Fysh

That was an improvement on the last few episodes, I must admit. Sylar appears to be back on form - the scene in the lift was a great little reminder of what made the character so compelling to begin with And delighted to see Hiro's memory restored, the whole 10-year-old Hiro thing was old.

The single thing I liked best about the episode, though, was the introduction of the super-soldier project. Not exactly mind-boggling or ground-breaking in and of itself, but if they stick with it the show has a chance of moving into fresh new ground and getting back to what was so good in the first series. I'm actually looking forward to next week's episode, because hopefully they'll set up something compelling for Volume 4.

That's not to say it doesn't have its faults - the supposedly emotional dialogue between Claire and Young HRG, or Hiro and Ma Nakamura, felt pretty clunky and trite, although not as bad as some recent episodes have been. The time travel aspect of the story is baffling and doesn't really make any sort of sense (if the episode shows what always happened [ie self-consistent time loop, a la Terminator One] then Kaito Nakamura would have warned Hiro that he would one day travel to the past and become the catalyst, but if it shows Hiro/Pa Petrelli changing the past, then none of the events that originally happened between the "16 years ago" and the start of series 1 would have happened - ie if Pa Petrelli stole the catalyst to take to the future, none of the heroes should have developed their powers in the present of series one).

I'm glad to see Pa Petrelli bite the bullet, though. I know he was supposed to be this ominous Big Bad, but frankly he was never written well enough to rise beyond being the Heroes equivalent of JR in Dallas.

seraphimvc

wah?bullet in head kill a regen hero???what about the huge trauma injury claire had back in season1????that was defo a bigger hole that made by bullet in her head

Fysh

seraphimvc wrote: »

wah?bullet in head kill a regen hero???what about the huge trauma injury claire had back in season1????that was defo a bigger hole that made by bullet in her head

I've been wondering about this, to be honest. Given the general idea of how regenerative powers would work (brain's repair centre working over-time and at a much higher efficiency than normal), I think the notion is that if you destroy the repair centre you can effectively "kill" the individual. This doesn't exactly gel with Claire's "resurrection" in season one, unless in her case the repair centre wasn't destroyed by the branch in her head, just impaired in some way (partially severed and unable to repair itself until the branch was removed, for example).

...

Oh good god, I'm over-thinking this stuff again.

Nervous Wreck

Fysh wrote: »

I've been wondering about this, to be honest. Given the general idea of how regenerative powers would work (brain's repair centre working over-time and at a much higher efficiency than normal), I think the notion is that if you destroy the repair centre you can effectively "kill" the individual. This doesn't exactly gel with Claire's "resurrection" in season one, unless in her case the repair centre wasn't destroyed by the branch in her head, just impaired in some way (partially severed and unable to repair itself until the branch was removed, for example).

...

Oh good god, I'm over-thinking this stuff again.

That's what I always reckoned too....

lostexpectation

what was with all the close ups.

will they go back on what happened in this ep?

oeb

Fysh wrote: »

That's not to say it doesn't have its faults - the supposedly emotional dialogue between Claire and Young HRG, or Hiro and Ma Nakamura, felt pretty clunky and trite, although not as bad as some recent episodes have been. The time travel aspect of the story is baffling and doesn't really make any sort of sense (if the episode shows what always happened [ie self-consistent time loop, a la Terminator One] then Kaito Nakamura would have warned Hiro that he would one day travel to the past and become the catalyst, but if it shows Hiro/Pa Petrelli changing the past, then none of the events that originally happened between the "16 years ago" and the start of series 1 would have happened - ie if Pa Petrelli stole the catalyst to take to the future, none of the heroes should have developed their powers in the present of series one).

Kaito Nakamura did not know that Hiro traveled to the past, only his mother knew, and she died just after she found out. Also, the catalyst is only needed to make the formula, 16 years ago, all the current (artificial) heroes (Nathan, Nikki etc) would have already recieved the treatment. And the natural ones would not have needed the catalyst anyway.

I think it has retained a consistant timeline.

Cabaal

I liked it up until Peter's dad went back in time and took Hiro's powers, that just seemed out of place for some strange reason....good otherwise

J-blk

seraphimvc wrote: »

wah?bullet in head kill a regen hero???what about the huge trauma injury claire had back in season1????that was defo a bigger hole that made by bullet in her head

Wasn't that the case where the branch had to be removed for her to be healed though (during the autopsy)? I think she would have stayed dead if the branch was left lodged in her skull. Same thing happened down the line with Peter and a piece of glass stuck in his head... So if the bullet is not removed from Arthur, he should stay dead...

Overall I wasn't impressed with this one either - very anticlimactic. And they've been building up this whole "heroes vs. villains" thing all season yet it still has gone nowhere and that doesn't seem like it will change with the next episode...

Is the catalyst now gone forever? It seemed to just "evaporate" out of Arthur there...

The best parts were definitely Sylar being his old self - both in the office when the other workers stepped in and in the elevator .

It also seems that the Haitian's powers need to/can be focused and are not a dampening field on every power around him. He was so focused on Arthur and struggling to keep him under control, that he couldn't affect Sylar at the same time.

DirkVoodoo

For Tim Kring to say that time travel is a bane of television writing, he seems increasingly dependent on it to thread his storylines together.

I was watching "Star Trek: Generations" the other day on Sky (Don't hit me, I hadn't seen it in ages) and the writers dug themselves into a similar mess. Picard ended up in this "Nexus" (place where time has no meaning, actually he might have been transported to an episode of heroes) and decides he has to go back and stop Malcolm McDowell's bad guy. Instead of saying "Actually, I'll go back to before my brother and nephew died, warn them to stay away from any fireplaces and then stop Soran before he blows up the first sun" he makes it impossibly hard and says "No, I have a better idea, send me back to the mountain top, after he has done most of the damage and leave me in a race against the clock to stop him!"

Sure, for dramatic purposes Picard chose the right option, but part of drama is believability, in spite of the medium being science-fiction or fantasy, the characters must be believable and have very human motivations. What Picard did was what Heroes has been doing all season: Make the unbelievable choice to further the plot, but in doing so removes any real credibility from the story.

I thought the episode was ok, but the constant time travel and incredible coincidences are becoming less interesting and more desperate. I would believe it more if Daphne just ran really fast around the earth and reversed time by reversing its spin around the sun.

astrofool

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

For Tim Kring to say that time travel is a bane of television writing, he seems increasingly dependent on it to thread his storylines together.

I was watching "Star Trek: Generations" the other day on Sky (Don't hit me, I hadn't seen it in ages) and the writers dug themselves into a similar mess. Picard ended up in this "Nexus" (place where time has no meaning, actually he might have been transported to an episode of heroes) and decides he has to go back and stop Malcolm McDowell's bad guy. Instead of saying "Actually, I'll go back to before my brother and nephew died, warn them to stay away from any fireplaces and then stop Soran before he blows up the first sun" he makes it impossibly hard and says "No, I have a better idea, send me back to the mountain top, after he has done most of the damage and leave me in a race against the clock to stop him!"

Sure, for dramatic purposes Picard chose the right option, but part of drama is believability, in spite of the medium being science-fiction or fantasy, the characters must be believable and have very human motivations. What Picard did was what Heroes has been doing all season: Make the unbelievable choice to further the plot, but in doing so removes any real credibility from the story.

I thought the episode was ok, but the constant time travel and incredible coincidences are becoming less interesting and more desperate. I would believe it more if Daphne just ran really fast around the earth and reversed time by reversing its spin around the sun.

Ah, but in Star trek, they have a policy not to meddle in the time line, so Picard chose the least meddlesome time to go back (i.e. just minutes before he went in).

Fysh

oeb wrote: »

Kaito Nakamura did not know that Hiro traveled to the past, only his mother knew, and she died just after she found out.

Oh, I know Kaito didn't explicitly know who Adult Hiro was back in the past. My point was that if he got a clear look at Adult Hiro when he was there, then came home a while later to find Adult Hiro gone and his wife dead, then discovers much later that his son has developed the ability to manipulate time and space, he could conceivably make the connection: "Hmmm, my wife wanted to make our son the catalyst > Hmmm, it turns out my son can travel in time > Now I come to think about it, there was a guy around the house who looked suspiciously like him the day before she died!"

This is what you'd expect if we're talking about a self-consistent time-loop story (ie events have "always" happened this way, there's always been a single timeline, it's just that certain parts of it are looped). The Kaito Nakamura thing doesn't guarantee it, I just think it would be a bit odd.

Of course, the time-travel stories don't seem to be very well thought-out, beyond their short-term purpose as plot devices...

oeb wrote: »

Also, the catalyst is only needed to make the formula, 16 years ago, all the current (artificial) heroes (Nathan, Nikki etc) would have already recieved the treatment. And the natural ones would not have needed the catalyst anyway.

I could well be wrong on this part, I found the whole explanation of the catalyst to be inadequate and clumsy (like a lot of things this season). I'm probably mis-remembering Mohinder's comments about restoring people's abilities (during the eclipse) and how he'd need the catalyst to do it.

There again, the whole catalyst thing is going to need clearing up and I hope they don't just ignore it like they have other plot holes...

oeb

Fysh wrote: »

I could well be wrong on this part, I found the whole explanation of the catalyst to be inadequate and clumsy (like a lot of things this season). I'm probably mis-remembering Mohinder's comments about restoring people's abilities (during the eclipse) and how he'd need the catalyst to do it.

There again, the whole catalyst thing is going to need clearing up and I hope they don't just ignore it like they have other plot holes...

I see your point with the first lot (that I have edited out of my quote). But as to the rest, my understanding was that Mohinder ment to restore peoples abilities by simply giving them new abilities. The catalyst is needed for the serum, but you can also have abilities without ever getting the serum.

Johnny Bitte

What a bloody mess the whole thing is.

The big bad daddy who appears to have every single power that anyone can think of has the most anti climactic death ever.

We are all still waiting for this major power battle that we will never see because the writers are chicken ****.

Sylar is the one good thing left about the show and they ****ed him up.
Angela "I m you mommy"
Sylar "I ll be good so"
Daddy Patrelli "I m your daddy"
Sylar "I ll be bad for you"

discovers there not

"Rarrragh I m evil again"


and now time travel.
a super power like this can only work with serious limitations like only being able to jump when the moon is full and a lion ****s gold, that way it cant be used every single time a road block is reached.

Hiro should be killed or left lost in time for the show to survive or else its gonna be the same thing over and over.

Fysh

The_Goose135 wrote: »

We are all still waiting for this major power battle that we will never see because the writers are chicken ****.

I find myself in an odd position on that front - I quite liked the way that the first series didn't have a big climactic battle at the end, because it would have been a bit too predictable and formulaic. I liked that the actual chain of events in the ending flowed from the various characters and what we'd gotten to know of them over the course of the series.

That doesn't mean this strategy works overall - I'm getting very bored with the ongoing introduction or persistence of characters who should, by rights, be among the most powerful people on the planet and yet are rendered constantly powerless through the magic of Crap Writing.

So I'm not exactly hoping for a big powers throwdown, but I do hope that they'll either get on with it and actually show some serious super-powered fights or stop hinting at them and just get on with telling another story entirely.

The_Goose135 wrote: »

Hiro should be killed or left lost in time for the show to survive or else its gonna be the same thing over and over.

I agree; there doesn't seem to be much scope for developing him as an individual, and his power is far too likely to be abused as a reset button to remain in play. That being said, they may be planning to leave him powerless in the past - such that in series 4 we're presented with an older, more experienced but powerless Hiro.

J-blk

Fysh wrote: »

That being said, they may be planning to leave him powerless in the past - such that in series 4 we're presented with an older, more experienced but powerless Hiro.

That would be kind of interesting IMO but the writers of this show are way too chicken s**t to make any such drastic changes to their "core" cast. The most likely scenario is that by the end of the "Villains" volume, everything will have been swiped by the "reset button" and absolutely nothing that happened in the last 13 episodes or so will have any consequence. That's the major problem with the show now: nobody from the main cast ever really dies, nothing has any lasting consequences...

astrofool

Would Hiro still not be around in present day? It could be how he learned to fight properly (i.e. use a katana), and now be 16 years older.

11811

could be, provided he wasn't recused or killed.
also how did Arthur manage go back in time?
If he didn't take Hiro's power...

this time travel malarkey is getting ridiculous.
writing again was poor, some of the lines were dreadful.Cringeworthy stuff..