niall mellon charity?whats the big deal

Fulton Crown

As someone who has travvelled extensively in the African Continent I have to agree with the posters who feel that this whole Mellon thing has turned into a sort of Lough Dergh with sun.

Sure they do "good work" but the inescapable fact is that this is a wholly inneficient way to deliver the aid...but of course will salve the various conciences as well as massage some egos.

Use the money to TEACH the natives the various skills and invest in EDUCATION is IMO the way to go.

But of course Johnny White Collar wouldnt get his feel good factor and the conversation around the dinner tables in South Dublin would be a little more mundane....

walshb

Fulton Crown wrote: »

As someone who has travvelled extensively in the African Continent I have to agree with the posters who feel that this whole Mellon thing has turned into a sort of Lough Dergh with sun.

Sure they do "good work" but the inescapable fact is that this is a wholly inneficient way to deliver the aid...but of course will salve the various conciences as well as massage some egos.

Use the money to TEACH the natives the various skills and invest in EDUCATION is IMO the way to go.

But of course Johnny White Collar wouldnt get his feel good factor and the conversation around the dinner tables in South Dublin would be a little more mundane....

Good point, but I ask? Why can't the SA people teach the SA people?
Why is it that the Irish are needing to impose?
Are the SA people not capable?

Tim Robbins

Is it better to teach a man to fish or give them the fish?

edanto

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Is it better to teach a man to fish or give them the fish?

It's better to teach them how to fish. Which is why I work full time for an education charity. (Suas Educational Development if you're interested)

One of our programmes sends volunteer teaching assistants to Kenya and India each year. Last year 80 people donated a total of 30,000 hours work as teaching assistants and mentors - and fundraised to cover their costs and a large donation to the schools.

But this is not a discussion about which type of charity is better, what's the best intervention to improve equality in the world, or any of those other issues that I care deeply about.

The topic of the thread is "what's the big deal about Niall Mellon" and I'm defending his charitable idea as being worth while, effective and good value, all things considered.

I'd welcome any other threads on those broader issues, but I'm only interested in getting into this with people that are prepared to take the time to research the issues instead of just firing off the first thing that comes into their head. (not directed at you Tim, more at walshb).

edanto

walshb wrote: »

Dave, let it go. I don't need to concede to anything. The evidence is there and you will try to defend the indefensible.

When he asked you to, you refused to back up your claims with any links to evidence, or indeed any kind of generally accepted fact other than what you typed again and again.

In that case, he was perfectly within his rights to call bullsh1t. I suspect that he bowed out because he was bored of going round in circles with you.

That's all I want to say on that, no need to question me on it, I won't expand.

edanto

Tha Gopher wrote: »

Now, while the intention is good, surely it would be more beneficial to just pay local SA builders to build the homes. Creates employment and has the same end housing result.

I find it a bit frustrating when I go to the trouble of researching something and someone is too lazy to read the whole thread, or even the page before them, before they post.

Dave! wrote: »

They employ 2,000 South Africans year round

me, at post 148 wrote:

http://www.irishtownship.com/docs/Acc001.pdf

From their accounts - they transferred about 75% plus of the fundraised moneys to SA, presumably to pay for people and materials there, just like you are suggesting.

Tim Robbins

edanto wrote: »

The topic of the thread is "what's the big deal about Niall Mellon" and I'm defending his charitable idea as being worth while, effective and good value, all things considered.

It comes down to two simple questions:
1. Is it better than not doing it?
No. It's better to do something (even if its grossly inefficient) than absolutely nothing.

2. Are there more efficient ways of doing it?

Yes. Of course. There are more efficient ways of doing everything.

Especially charity stuff. It's difficult to put an objective barometer on how inefficient it is right now. But it sounds extremly inefficient, flying people that distance for that price when the country has massive unemployment.

Tha Gopher

edanto wrote: »

I find it a bit frustrating when I go to the trouble of researching something and someone is too lazy to read the whole thread, or even the page before them, before they post.

Its a long funking thread tbh.

noininnib

A friend of mine is going to SA with Niall Mellon in March. She says that the gaffers on the job will all be local trained up staff. Seems to me in the terms of the Chinese proverb, these men have been taught how to fish.

On another level: if the Niall Mellon charity has the beneficial side-effect of enticing a small pecentage of socialites (out of the total no. of volunteers) over to SA where they will be bossed around by local SA foremen, then that alone makes it worthwhile.

Fulton Crown

noininnib wrote: »

On another level: if the Niall Mellon charity has the beneficial side-effect of enticing a small pecentage of socialites (out of the total no. of volunteers) over to SA where they will be bossed around by local SA foremen, then that alone makes it worthwhile.

Really hmm ?

Makes it worthwhile ??? What are you on about friend ?

This "charity" is all about would be do gooders salving their conciences by "working" for a week in SA.

They are not used to spending their own dosh so they get other poor fools to pay for them.

Come back feeling all good about themselves an go back to their greedy selfish ways.

They don't fool E Fulton Crown...no sir...!

FlutterinBantam

noininnib wrote: »

A friend of mine is going to SA with Niall Mellon in March. She says that the gaffers on the job will all be local trained up staff. Seems to me in the terms of the Chinese proverb, these men have been taught how to fish.

On another level: if the Niall Mellon charity has the beneficial side-effect of enticing a small pecentage of socialites (out of the total no. of volunteers) over to SA where they will be bossed around by local SA foremen, then that alone makes it worthwhile.

Quite frankly and honestly I think most of them wouldn't need too much enticing.
Apparently, and I may be wrong here, but all you have to do is ring up their PR or promotion company negotiate a fee and away they go.

A lot of these people are "professional" walk leaders, etc using their public profile to trouser a few extra bob.

Not saying there is a thing wrong with that, but hey, charity it ain't,so let's nail that one rapido friend.

Oisinjm

mountainyman wrote: »

It is the stupides thing I have ever heard of. A load of tradesmen from a country where tradesmen aren't that good go and build houses in a country with a surplus of labour and a shortage of money.

It's bullsh1t. If they trained people in Africa up that'd be one thing but the whole thing is moronic. Its main advantage is that the participants really feel good about themselves because they give their time rather than money. That is an advantage for the participants not the recipients.

It is illogical.

They do train people in africa up aswell.

walshb

What is it with the Irish; making out that the South Africans are retarded and are waiting
on US to show them how to build a house?:rolleyes:

So, who the hell is building all the Stadia for the 2010 WC. Are the Irish going to show how it's done?

There are more than enough people, money and resources in SA to help themselves without waiting for the doo gooder Paddy to start lecturing them on bloody house building.

All it's doing is causing problems in these countries; Irish folks forcing their "charity"
upon people.

I really would love to know how many UNITS Mellon and crew have built in Ireland for NOTHING?

Villain

Jesus some people really could do with educating themselves about the situation

walshb

Villain wrote: »

Jesus some people really could do with educating themselves about the situation

So, who are these people and what's the education?

Villain

Your previous post suggests you know very little about the situation.

walshb

And so does yours. Why not enlighten me then if I know so little.
What have I said that is untrue or incorrect?

You claim I know so little, but fail to say why?:rolleyes:

Villain

walshb wrote: »

And so does yours. Why not enlighten me then if I know so little.
What have I said that is untrue or incorrect?

You claim I know so little, but fail to say why?:rolleyes:

Ohhh rolleyes, how mature.

The week or 2 that Niall Mellon sends Irish people over to SA is purely a PR exercise to raise funds and raise the profile of the charity, they have trained a huge number of SA natives and built thousands of home over the years, the number of houses that the Irish build in a week compared to the total number built by the charity is tiny.

Sadly many people who have been trained by the charity to build houses and have gone to work on the Stadia for the World Cup, in an ideal world the SA government would look after their own and the Irish Charity wouldn't be needed but thats not the case.

I have many issues with the charity in relation to the week that the Irish spend out there but the fundamentals of the charity imo are sound.

So roll eyes away but you might want to learn a little more about the situation

walshb

Villain wrote: »

Ohhh rolleyes, how mature.

The week or 2 that Niall Mellon sends Irish people over to SA is purely a PR exercise to raise funds and raise the profile of the charity, they have trained a huge number of SA natives and built thousands of home over the years, the number of houses that the Irish build in a week compared to the total number built by the charity is tiny.

Sadly many people who have been trained by the charity to build houses and have gone to work on the Stadia for the World Cup, in an ideal world the SA government would look after their own and the Irish Charity wouldn't be needed but thats not the case.

I have many issues with the charity in relation to the week that the Irish spend out there but the fundamentals of the charity imo are sound.

So roll eyes away but you might want to learn a little more about the situation

Ok, but how does that disprove or educate ON anything I have said. All I said was that the Irish have a cheek to try and portray SA folks as being unable to build houses without OUR training. SA folk don't need Irish to train them how to build bloody houses; anyway, they had houses long before Mr Mellon forced the charity on the country, and houses that they were damn proud of

Villain

walshb wrote: »

Ok, but how does that disprove or educate ON anything I have said. All I said was that the Irish have a cheek to try and portray SA folks as being unable to build houses without OUR training. SA folk don't need Irish to train them how to build bloody houses; anyway, they had houses long before Mr Mellon forced the charity on the country, and houses that they were damn proud of

As I said in an ideal world the SA government would train them but that doesn't happen, and also training them is well and good but they need the materials to build the houses which the charity provides

RATM

Ive no doubt this charity does good work in South Africa and it is to be welcomed. But tbh he had over 50 African countries to pick to set up in that continent and he chose the richest one possible, rich in resources, tourism, FDI.

Could of went to plenty of other places where help is needed far more IMO.

Villain

RATM wrote: »

Ive no doubt this charity does good work in South Africa and it is to be welcomed. But tbh he had over 50 African countries to pick to set up in that continent and he chose the richest one possible, rich in resources, tourism, FDI.

Could of went to plenty of other places where help is needed far more IMO.

Have you been to the townships in SA RATM?

While I agree many other African countries are worse off in relation to SA, the divide between the rich and poor is scary, many Irish Charities do great work in Africa but SA has been forgotten or seen as not needing charity which is very far from been the case.

dolly13

walshb wrote: »

Ok, but how does that disprove or educate ON anything I have said. All I said was that the Irish have a cheek to try and portray SA folks as being unable to build houses without OUR training. SA folk don't need Irish to train them how to build bloody houses; anyway, they had houses long before Mr Mellon forced the charity on the country, and houses that they were damn proud of

Irish volunteers do not train the SA work force at least not in an official capacity. They are trained on the ground by the full time South African work force.

LaMer

RATM, to the people of SA who live in the slums and townships, the country is a 3rd world country, the conditions are woeful, crime is rampant and murder is a survival strategy.

Niall Mellon has a government contract to build these houses, as far as I'm aware, the SA government is doing their best, but with most industry located in the cities and the repeal of pass laws + segregated areas in the 1990s, and the advent of free black movements the countryside literally just drained into the cities, so thats while you have people in such bad areas. People are willing to live in shacks as long as they can make a living.