niall mellon charity?whats the big deal

woodseb

eth0_ wrote: »

That's a really stupid comment to make. There's no cholera or typhoid epidemics in SA. But the people in townships in SA are DIRT POOR just like those in darfur and zimbabwe. They have no sanitation. They live in huts constructed from whatever materials they can find.

.

eh? that was my point, explain why the comment was stupid

LaMer

If it's that bad, why aren't there sanctions placed on SA until the government sort their people out? IMO leaving people to live in slum townships is unforgivable.

Countries like India, SA etc who are guilty of this have no place doing business with the rest of the world.

The government of South Africa is currently working to meet the housing needs of people. Do you get that there was massive irregularities in the housing system before 1994 that are difficult to rectify? Until 1994 the government tryed to ignore the urbanisation of the Black Africans, they had laws preventing it (Group Areas Act, formation of "homelands" etc), thats how slums developed as "informal settlements". They aren't leaving people to live in shacks; 100 years of institutional inequality, 100 years of substandard housing for blacks and rapid urbanisation has developed these shanty towns. IMO sanctions would be a pretty retarded step, since the current situation isn't the ANCs fault.

EDIT: And if they have no place in doing business with the world how are they gonna rectify these problems? Grow money to make houses? come on.

Dave!

eth0_ wrote: »

That's a really stupid comment to make. There's no cholera or typhoid epidemics in SA. But the people in townships in SA are DIRT POOR just like those in darfur and zimbabwe. They have no sanitation. They live in huts constructed from whatever materials they can find.

The people going over there to work for this charity are doing more harm than good. Think of all the trademen in SA who could be EMPLOYED by this charity - instead they are sitting around watching white middle class men come over to increase their own sense of self-satisfaction. It's just like those idiots in charities sending goats to poor african farmers without realising goats damage crops.

The Irish tradesmen train the locals to be builders. The majority of the people working on the developments ARE South Africans. 95% of them were previously unemployed. The people who live in the new houses previously lived in shacks made out of scrap metal.

So..... how exactly are they doing more harm than good?

If it didn't exist then the SAfricans would still be living in sh*t houses, still be unskilled, still be unemployed.

Tipsy7

Why does the involvment of celebrities devalue the work done by a charity???

Dinter

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Again, no one is saying charity is wrong, that the NMT isn't doing great work that it's not good to help people worse off than ourselves.

That's all a given..

Well let's give the op a chance to show he's singing from the same hymn sheet will we?

irishvamp90 wrote: »

it had that model one glenda in south africa with the charity interviewing a property tycoon and pr guru.its like a fake charity for wannabe sociallites.

Hmmm ok so. That's not quite the same point at all. Guess you'd better give us your honest feelings on the Neil Mellon Charity, Vampy.

irishvamp90 wrote: »

rant over it sickens my ****

Hmmm well Flutts here, reckons your major problem is z list celebs using worthy causes to try and raise their own dismal popularity and in fact that's the point he's defending.

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

What knots the OPs kex, is the amount of so called celebrities who use the charity as a vehicle to project their media footprint and who wouldn't lift their little finger to do SIMILAR WORK in Ireland.

Nicely put so just to make sure you're both aligned you'd better give us the crux of your argument again.

irishvamp90 wrote: »

they said 2000 people have been over to south africa its a pity these people wouldnt help at home here in ireland.

Really vamp, and they were all media whore celebs were they? Nah I don't think so. So tell us then Vampy, what's the real issue?

irishvamp90 wrote: »

i started just helping with old people just a simple thing like time no money,no fancy balls.

Ah someone doesn't feel appreciated for his charity work and is having a little tantrum at the people who dare to actually get something back from their charitable intentions. Fair enough so Vampy. Nice to have it nailed down.

walshb

Ok, lets get real with this issue. All sides aside, did anyone ever stop to think
of the possible harm Mellon and co are creating in SA with their
imposing charity?

I watched the documentary about a year ago and I saw many many SA
people, yes, mostly white; but they are still people and still SA people, basically very
irritated that the Irish were forcing their' good will' upon SA when it was NEVER
asked for.

They were saying why don't the Irish basically GET lost and go do some charity in their own country. They are building houses on land and it is causing furter hostility between
whites and blacks.

Did anyone STOP to think that these houses were being mistreated and the folks supposedly benefitting were renting them out and making money off them, all the while they went and remained in their own towns in their original 'houses'

Did the SA people come and ASK Mellon to 'please help us sir and please build us houses' NO, he imposed himself on them and this is the problem I see with all these so called charities. They are interfering in countries affairs and maybe they are GENUINE, but it is still,causing problems.

Can you imagine a heap of SA folks over here and imposing themselves on our people. I don't think it would be all simply 'hunky dory.'

Finally, SA is a very powerful and resourceful and dynamic country and if folks really want to believe that they cannot themselves build a few 'pissy' houses and are
somehow waiting on the IRISH to sort them out, well, more fool you!

walshb

Dave! wrote: »

The Irish tradesmen train the locals to be builders. The majority of the people working on the developments ARE South Africans. 95% of them were previously unemployed. The people who live in the new houses previously lived in shacks made out of scrap metal.

So..... how exactly are they doing more harm than good?

If it didn't exist then the SAfricans would still be living in sh*t houses, still be unskilled, still be unemployed.

So who the feck is building all the stadia for the WC?

Are the Irish also training the people for this massive project?

You would swear the people of SA were handicapped and couldn't do a thing
without the GREAT IRISH:rolleyes:

Baby4

This post has been deleted.

FlutterinBantam

Good.

Now that we have cleared up the fact that these'celebs' are just PR junkies,ligging on yours and my donations,as they do all their lives, by the way,it ensures that any Charity using those wasters will not benefit from the Flutt's largesse.

Look BEHIND the headlines my friends!!

There is always an angle.

edanto

walshb wrote: »

Ok, lets get real with this issue. All sides aside, did anyone ever stop to think
of the possible harm Mellon and co are creating in SA with their
imposing charity?

Did anyone STOP to think that these houses were being mistreated and the folks supposedly benefitting were renting them out and making money off them, all the while they went and remained in their own towns in their original 'houses'

Did the SA people come and ASK Mellon to 'please help us sir and please build us houses' NO, he imposed himself on them and this is the problem I see with all these so called charities. They are interfering in countries affairs and maybe they are GENUINE, but it is still,causing problems.

Yes, I think you'll find that they did STOP and think about what they were doing. Of course the television show found some people to give out about it - controversy has a much higher news value than almost anything else. Combine controversy with some begrudgery about a high profile Irish do-gooder and you've got a great news story!

So what if the people that were given the houses want to rent them out? Are you saying that we should be so superior to the South Africans to say that for some reason they can't become landlords?!! Are they not adult enough to decide the best use to make of their new house? Maybe the money they get from rent helps the family far more then the new house would.

And for all those that want to do something about the problems that we have in Ireland....

http://www.volunteeringireland.ie/page.php?id=15

http://www.volunteer.ie/volunteeropportunities_search.htm

You have to search this stuff out - put a bit of effort into it. Of course charities aren't going to be able to advertise as widely as businesses, that would be a waste of money. Instead they use celebrities, because we know that will make the news, we use inventive ways to get our story covered, and hope that by doing so we'll make more people aware of the reasons for doing charity work.

Perhaps you might like to know how wealthy/poor you are compared to everyone else in the world? Think you're in the top 50%? top 40%? Find out!!

http://globalrichlist.com/

walshb

edanto wrote: »

Yes, I think you'll find that they did STOP and think about what they were doing. Of course the television show found some people to give out about it - controversy has a much higher news value than almost anything else. Combine controversy with some begrudgery about a high profile Irish do-gooder and you've got a great news story!

So what if the people that were given the houses want to rent them out? Are you saying that we should be so superior to the South Africans to say that for some reason they can't become landlords?!! Are they not adult enough to decide the best use to make of their new house? Maybe the money they get from rent helps the family far more then the new house would.

And for all those that want to do something about the problems that we have in Ireland....

http://www.volunteeringireland.ie/page.php?id=15

http://www.volunteer.ie/volunteeropportunities_search.htm

You have to search this stuff out - put a bit of effort into it. Of course charities aren't going to be able to advertise as widely as businesses, that would be a waste of money. Instead they use celebrities, because we know that will make the news, we use inventive ways to get our story covered, and hope that by doing so we'll make more people aware of the reasons for doing charity work.

Perhaps you might like to know how wealthy/poor you are compared to everyone else in the world? Think you're in the top 50%? top 40%? Find out!!

http://globalrichlist.com/

Again, do research on SA and you may just find that this country is NOT all that poverty
stricken. Why should my tax go towards SA when SA is a more powerfully resourced country by a long shot compared to Ireland. Sure, SA has poverty, but it also has damn wealth and enough of it to sort their 'housing' problem out.

BTW, did the folks in the shanty towns ASK Mellon and the Irish for this charity
Did they actually ask for it and NEED it?

I have been to these towns and the pride those people have is unreal and the
way they keep their 'houses' is amazing. So what is it with the Irish
and this attitude that 'you people need us, you people are handicapped, you people
depend on us?'

To me, this attitude is so damn patronising and insulting!

Listen, about the renting out. The whole poxy idea is that the houses
were to be built for the people because Mellon and CO are telling US
that the people need the housing. So, if they NEED the housing, why the hell aren't they living in the housing. They are renting and making money. So, the damn houses aren't REALLY needed for what we were told!
They are needed so the folks can rent and make money.
Don't try and worm out of it by what you are saying

Dave!

walshb wrote: »

So who the feck is building all the stadia for the WC?

Are the Irish also training the people for this massive project?

You would swear the people of SA were handicapped and couldn't do a thing
without the GREAT IRISH:rolleyes:

If the people building the stadia were building houses for the people in the townships, then there wouldn't be much cause for Niall Mellon to be over there would there?

Evidentally the SA government is more concerned with building stadia than houses, so it's up to an NGO to do it.

walshb

Dave! wrote: »

If the people building the stadia were building houses for the people in the townships, then there wouldn't be much cause for Niall Mellon to be over there would there?

Evidentally the SA government is more concerned with building stadia than houses, so it's up to an NGO to do it.

So there's the bloody problem. If we are going to JUMP every time some folks won't help their own people, what bloody use is that. What sort of message is that?

What incentive does that give the SA folks. So, lets screw a lot of our own, sure who cares, the good old mugs in Ireland will sort out the peasants. Yeah, that's real clever.

This is a NO brainer to me; I don't see how one can use the argument that
SA have all the resources in the world to stage World Cups; but they
somehow cannot sort out shanty towns with houses, but wait; the Irish
are there for that. Well, I have zero problem with the Irish helping, but when
my tax is aiding this SHAM, then I am entitled to answers!

I saw a documentary on the dreadful housing conditions that some folks in Ireland are facing and how the houses are just 'unlivable'; yet I didn't hear of one instance where a TRADESMAN or men went and repaired one single house for FREE. Yet, we are meant to believe that these same men and women are so damn charitable? Give me a freaking break!

walshb

It's absolute crazy!

Mellon and CO tell us that the poor SA people need
proper housing and that we will provide it. They build the houses
and a lot of the houses aren't even used by those they were built
for. They are rented out.

Then when this gets brought up, the excuse is made
that the folks are entitled to RENT them. Maybe they are entitled, but don't then
tell me the houses were needed. You can't have it BOTH ways!


The folks who supposedly NEEDED the houses are RENTING them
So, logic tells me that those folks DIDN'T need or want the houses
in the first place; but wait, they do want them now, because now they see
that they can make a quick buck from them. Crazy is an understatement!

FlutterinBantam

As well as providing sunshine breaks for liggers and freeloaders:mad::mad:

Dave!

walshb wrote: »

So there's the bloody problem. If we are going to JUMP every time some folks won't help their own people, what bloody use is that. What sort of message is that?

What incentive does that give the SA folks. So, lets screw a lot of our own, sure who cares, the good old mugs in Ireland will sort out the peasants. Yeah, that's real clever.

Ah, so you don't support any NGOs? What about in Zimbabwe, where inflation must be about a gazillion % by now because of Mugabe? You don't think the rest of us have a responsibility to help if we can? What about the likes of UNICEF? They provide aid to the likes of Yemen, Swaziland, Mozambique, as well as South Africa and Zimbabwe. Or even domestically you have charities like Barnardos, who help Irish kids when the government fails to.

So let's just abandon all of these and the various governments will snap out of it and all will be dandy, yeah?

walshb wrote: »

Well, I have zero problem with the Irish helping, but when my tax is aiding this SHAM, then I am entitled to answers!

How much tax is going towards the Niall Mellon Trust? As I understand it the money is all raised by volunteers You got a link/numbers?

walshb wrote: »

I saw a documentary on the dreadful housing conditions that some folks in Ireland are facing and how the houses are just 'unlivable'; yet I didn't hear of one instance where a TRADESMAN or men went and repaired one single house for FREE. Yet, we are meant to believe that these same men and women are so damn charitable? Give me a freaking break!

Listen bud, the only people in Ireland worse off than those living in townships in SA, are homeless people.

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

As well as providing sunshine breaks for liggers and freeloaders:mad::mad:

You mean... sunshine breaks that they pay for? What's the problem?

Bloody*Mary

I know three people who over the years have gone to SA on this trip. All three would see it as some sort of wanky status symbol - that they are giving up their free time to help the poor in SA. Funnily enough, when they've come home,without exception,it's all been about who they met and what parties they've gone to and how GREAT they are for having gone. None have described the contitions or have made any attempt to help in another 'low profile' way. I can guarantee these three people would not have gone had it not been for the celebrity angle of this trip or teh fact they are escaping the winter here to the sun of SA. I'm not knocking what they do down there and I'm sure there are people that go for the right reasons but not anyone I know.

walshb

Dave! wrote: »

Ah, so you don't support any NGOs? What about in Zimbabwe, where inflation must be about a gazillion % by now because of Mugabe? You don't think the rest of us have a responsibility to help if we can? What about the likes of UNICEF? They provide aid to the likes of Yemen, Swaziland, Mozambique, as well as South Africa and Zimbabwe. Or even domestically you have charities like Barnardos, who help Irish kids when the government fails to.

So let's just abandon all of these and the various governments will snap out of it and all will be dandy, yeah?



How much tax is going towards the Niall Mellon Trust? As I understand it the money is all raised by volunteers You got a link/numbers?



Listen bud, the only people in Ireland worse off than those living in townships in SA, are homeless people.



You mean... sunshine breaks that they pay for? What's the problem?

Real good argument. We are discussing SA and you bring up other countries.
SA is a very very powerful country. Why not address the issue?

Can you answer my queries regarding the renting scams in the country and how Mellon
is telling us the houses are needed, yet the folks are renting them and making money off them. We were TOLD the houses were for the people and were needed, not needed
for scams

Hmm, travellers in Ireland live in squalor; where are the NGO's building them free houses. That's how they choose to live; just like in the shanty towns; that is how they CHOOSE to live, so why are The Irish over imposing their 'charity' and 'good will'

These people have been living and damn surviving for years and years without trouble. Then, the Irish see a chance to make a name for themselves as angels of mercy and try to impose. It is now leading to scams, and trouble between whites and blacks!

Again, leave all the others out of it. The issue is the housing in SA and that's where we should be focusing on. Does SA need my tax? After all my research into the country and its diversity, wealth, power, population and desire, NO, we might just need their TAX!

I don't know how much, but our government does provide funding
to the Mellon trust. That is FACT, direct and indirect!

And it does give aid money to SA. Freaking madness!

rod flanders

walshb wrote: »

So who the feck is building all the stadia for the WC?

Niall Melon's crew

rod flanders

Dinter wrote: »

Good on you Tri.

Don't bother justifying what you did here. Charity shouldn't need to be justified and nor to people doing it need to flagellate themselves to ensure they're doing it in the proper spirit and not enjoying themselves.

Go away, do your thing and remember no matter how much you enjoyed it, it won't be half as much as the people you built houses for enjoy them.

Well done again.

Dinter are you feeling ok. This is the complete opposite to what you said about the lawyers building houses in Zambia back in July.

walshb

rod flanders wrote: »

Dinter are you feeling ok. This is the complete opposite to what you said about the lawyers building houses in Zambia back in July.

Lawyers doing something for nothing? Now alarm bells surely should have been ringing!::D

Dave!

walshb wrote: »

Real good argument. We are discussing SA and you bring up other countries.
SA is a very very powerful country. Why not address the issue?

You're the one not addressing the issue. The NMT is an NGO providing aid in another country where the government of that country has neglected to do so. Ireland is an example of this. There are many NGOs and privately run charities in Ireland.

I'm asking, do you think we should disband them, and leave the government to do their work, since they should be doing it in the first place?

walshb wrote: »

Can you answer my queries regarding the renting scams in the country and how Mellon is telling us the houses are needed, yet the folks are renting them and making money off them. We were TOLD the houses were for the people and were needed, not needed for scams

Where are you getting info about this 'renting scam'? Any numbers on how widespread it is?

The only info I can find on it is from an Irish Times article:

Another dilemma to emerge relates to the reappearance of shacks beside the beneficiaries' new homes. While the idea is to eradicate shacks in the long term, people are so poor they often rebuild the flimsy dwellings and rent them out to others in need of a place to stay. But Mellon sees this development as less problematic, viewing it as "entrepreneurship by people who have limited ways to make money".

So in reality it seems it's not the new houses, but rather the SHACKS that get rented out.

Or do you have a source that says it's the new houses that are rented? TBH it wouldn't surprise me, because there seems to be a problem in other areas of SA where people come in and force residents to pay them rent in flats, etc. That's a law and order issue though, not much NM can do about that.

But again, if you could provide a source that would be tip top.

walshb wrote: »

Hmm, travellers in Ireland live in squalor; where are the NGO's building them free houses. That's how they choose to live; just like in the shanty towns; that is how they CHOOSE to live, so why are The Irish over imposing their 'charity' and 'good will'.

These people have been living and damn surviving for years and years without trouble. Then, the Irish see a chance to make a name for themselves as angels of mercy and try to impose. It is now leading to scams, and trouble between whites and blacks!

What, do they have an alternative? The travellers do in some cases and choose not to. That's up to them. Where's the black South Africans' alternative?

They apparently want the houses, since that's what they told Niall Mellon when he went over originally in 2002. And because they've been welcomed back every year. And because the SAfricans help with the building and get jobs out of it. And because they move into the houses.

On what are you basing your assumption that they WANT to live in shacks?

Also, what conflict between blacks and whites are you talking about that wasn't there before? I read one article that mentioned that Niall Mellon received death threats from the rich white SAfricans for helping the blacks.

But on a more positive note, an account from one of the recipients of the houses:

"It is amazing what is happening. Some of the rich whites from across the river, those we work for, are beginning to help us. When we lived in shacks they would not even come into the township, but now they see we are human beings.

"A few whites are paying to build their staff homes, and others are helping by buying things like furniture. We have dignity and pride now because of our homes, so they see us differently, but it is the Irish who led by example," she explained to The Irish Times .

walshb wrote: »

I don't know how much, but our government does provide funding to the Mellon trust. That is FACT, direct and indirect!

If you don't provide evidence for that then you can write off that point, because it's baseless.

BTW some stats:

*The charity has built almost 10,000 new homes since 2002.

*It employs between 1,700 and 2,000 local South Africans year round.

*Over 3,000 volunteers have travelled with NM to SA since 2002.

*Volunteers include:

50 Irish bankers
Sean Dunne
a group of chiefs of staff from the US Congressional Black Caucus

NMTT worldwide chief executive Paddy Maguinness said while everyone’s presence was applauded, the Americans’ attendance was an important development in terms of securing future funding.

*The projects were also visited by:

the Heads of Housing from Johannesburg
the regional African director of the World Bank
eight senior staff members from Congress in Washington
Desmond Tutu

walshb

The trust does receive help in some form from the govt, even if it is in tax breaks etc, it is a form of help

Look, Dave, you believe that SA needs US, so be it. I don't want to change your mind.
I will not be fooled for a sec about it. You say they are welcomed back each year?
Damn right they are, aren't they providing free houses, who wouldn't invite them back.

Does this mean it's solving the REAL problem. You say SA are neglecting their people.
Well, they should continue to do so as long as Ireland are there to sort that out!

SA is a country more than capable of solving its own problems.
Will it support and FIX all its problems? No, it will support and fix
most and leave the Irish to clean up the dirt!

Answer me this: What damn tradesmen do you know that has ever done
a charitable act on a house in Ireland? Not built, just a charitable deed.
Yet, they are OVER in SA doing marvelous work for 'free,' or at least
this is what we're led to believe!

I'm telling you, Africa and charity is a sure thing, Nobody can open their mouths
to query it in fear of being labeled racist or begrudgers'. Not saying you have
said this Dave; it's a general feeling I have

These charities are fueling the problem and prolonging the problem because as long as SA sees this gullible attitude from us, the longer they will take advantage!

Dave!

walshb wrote: »

The trust does receive help in some form from the govt, even if it is in tax breaks etc, it is a form of help

If the grand total of the Irish gvmt's contribution is in not taxing the NMT, then I don't see the problem really. If the charity didn't exist, then they also wouldn't be getting tax from them.

walshb wrote: »

Look, Dave, you believe that SA needs US, so be it. I don't want to change your mind.
I will not be fooled for a sec about it. You say they are welcomed back each year?
Damn right they are, aren't they providing free houses, who wouldn't invite them back.

Indeed.

walshb wrote: »

Does this mean it's solving the REAL problem. You say SA are neglecting their people.
Well, they should continue to do so as long as Ireland are there to sort that out!

I was wrong, the SA gvmt is not neglecting their people:

Even though the South African government has managed to build two million homes since 1994, a further two million homes at least are needed to tackle the current housing backlog, which in reality will grow as time passes.

SA is a country more than capable of solving its own problems.
Will it support and FIX all its problems? No, it will support and fix
most and leave the Irish to clean up the dirt!

So the NMT is simply helping the government speed up their own program.

walshb wrote: »

Answer me this: What damn tradesmen do you know that has ever done a charitable act on a house in Ireland? Not built, just a charitable deed.
Yet, they are OVER in SA doing marvelous work for 'free,' or at least
this is what we're led to believe!

I don't know any, what's your point? Does that mean that South Africans now don't need secure houses?

You might as well say "Chernobyl International are great for Chernobyl -- but what have they done to help Irish people?!"

Just because there's problems in one place doesn't mean the problems in another place go away. The gulf between our problems and the problems in Africa are so great that your point is laughable. You're implying that tradesmen should be at home fixing lights and door handles, rather than in another country BUILDING HOUSES FROM SCRATCH for people who live between sheets of metal. Get some perspective.

BTW, if you think that the volunteers are over in SA making money, then say so and back it up, otherwise shut the hell up and stop trying to muddy the water with sh*te like this comment:

Yet, they are OVER in SA doing marvelous work for 'free,' or at least
this is what we're led to believe!

Are you gonna back it up? No? Great, so that's more bullsh*t from you.

walshb wrote: »

I'm telling you, Africa and charity is a sure thing, Nobody can open their mouths to query it in fear of being labeled racist or begrudgers'. Not saying you have said this Dave; it's a general feeling I have.

These charities are fueling the problem and prolonging the problem because as long as SA sees this gullible attitude from us, the longer they will take advantage!

This is the only legitimate point you've made in this thread.

If you get all the charities out of Africa and leave them to their devices, then they may all come together and fix it, or the situation may degenerate further. Understandably, not everyone is willing to take that risk.

walshb

Dave! wrote: »

If the grand total of the Irish gvmt's contribution is in not taxing the NMT, then I don't see the problem really. If the charity didn't exist, then they also wouldn't be getting tax from them.



Indeed.



I was wrong, the SA gvmt is not neglecting their people:

Even though the South African government has managed to build two million homes since 1994, a further two million homes at least are needed to tackle the current housing backlog, which in reality will grow as time passes.

SA is a country more than capable of solving its own problems.
Will it support and FIX all its problems? No, it will support and fix
most and leave the Irish to clean up the dirt!

So the NMT is simply helping the government speed up their own program.



I don't know any, what's your point? Does that mean that South Africans now don't need secure houses?

You might as well say "Chernobyl International are great for Chernobyl -- but what have they done to help Irish people?!"

Just because there's problems in one place doesn't mean the problems in another place go away. The gulf between our problems and the problems in Africa are so great that your point is laughable. You're implying that tradesmen should be at home fixing lights and door handles, rather than in another country BUILDING HOUSES FROM SCRATCH for people who live between sheets of metal. Get some perspective.

BTW, if you think that the volunteers are over in SA making money, then say so and back it up, otherwise shut the hell up and stop trying to muddy the water with sh*te like this comment:

Yet, they are OVER in SA doing marvelous work for 'free,' or at least
this is what we're led to believe!

Are you gonna back it up? No? Great, so that's more bullsh*t from you.



This is the only legitimate point you've made in this thread.

If you get all the charities out of Africa and leave them to their devices, then they may all come together and fix it, or the situation may degenerate further. Understandably, not everyone is willing to take that risk.

Mate, less of the insults. You don't agree with my view, big deal, Calm down and stop LETTING yourself down by resorting to the bullyy boy tactics. I made my point in a polite and respectful manner; either you do or simply don't converse with me.

I could have said all the stuff you threw at me about all the things you wrote.
Keep it polite and civil here. Don't drag this thread down into the gutter with your tactics

LaMer

So in reality it seems it's not the new houses, but rather the SHACKS that get rented out.

You're full of it, I've seen it first hand and the houses get rented out, the family go back to living in a shack.

As I've said before, you can't just magically make houses appear, things take time. Especially with the widespread nature of the problem Also have to take into consideration massive flight from the country to the cities for work, population growth, illegal immigration, etc. I've also said thet Niall Mellon has a government contract to build houses, so essentially he's not doing it of his own initiative.

walshb

LaMer wrote: »

You're full of it, I've seen it first hand and the houses get rented out, the family go back to living in a shack.

As I've said before, you can't just magically make houses appear, things take time. Especially with the widespread nature of the problem Also have to take into consideration massive flight from the country to the cities for work, population growth, illegal immigration, etc. I've also said thet Niall Mellon has a government contract to build houses, so essentially he's not doing it of his own initiative.

I have been told by SA people that I work with of the corruption going on
See, there is always someone willing to defend the indefensible and they
will throw in any 'red herring' to distort the picture.

LaMer

Yes aswell in any country with lower wages and an ineffective police force you'll get corruption, especially in the housing sector which is so big.

FlutterinBantam

And of course you will always get so called 'celebrities' willing to turn a blind eye to reality and jump on the self promotional bandwagon and the backwash of media exposure to promote their freeloading and vacuous lifestyle.

There are PLENTY of worthy causes here at home but of course those are not 'sexy' and don't involve airmiles and paparazzi .

Nobody,well very few in that liggerite class do anything for nothing,quid pro quo is the mantra there.

mark my words.

Dave!

walshb wrote: »

Mate, less of the insults. You don't agree with my view, big deal, Calm down and stop LETTING yourself down by resorting to the bullyy boy tactics. I made my point in a polite and respectful manner; either you do or simply don't converse with me.

I could have said all the stuff you threw at me about all the things you wrote.
Keep it polite and civil here. Don't drag this thread down into the gutter with your tactics

Gimme a break

Report my post if it's insulting, otherwise address the points or concede them.

LaMer wrote: »

You're full of it, I've seen it first hand and the houses get rented out, the family go back to living in a shack.

As I've said before, you can't just magically make houses appear, things take time. Especially with the widespread nature of the problem Also have to take into consideration massive flight from the country to the cities for work, population growth, illegal immigration, etc. I've also said thet Niall Mellon has a government contract to build houses, so essentially he's not doing it of his own initiative.

I'll have to take your word for it bud. If it's the case though, what's the problem? The good thing about the initiative is that the people have an ASSET which they can use however they need to. If someone gave me a new car, then I wouldn't necessarily drive it just because it was given to me. If I sell it then I could spend the 10k on a holiday for example.
Point being, if they have a proper house but no job to provide income, then of course they're going to rent out the new house or else the shack, depending on the circumstances. They'll have to prioritize. If I don't have enough money for clean clothes or for medicine, then I'm not gonna move into the house, I'm gonna rent it out.
If I have a job and can meet my expenditures in terms of food, water, medicine, clothes, then I'll move into the new house and probably rent out the old one.

It's certainly not a silver bullet to solve all of South Africa's problems, but it's better than nothing. Even if the NMT's only good point is that it employs 2,000 South Africans for the year, that's surely a good thing right?