Time to bring back the death penalty

Cianos

Yet another thread on the death penalty. And for some reason I don't feel like contributing to this one....

...but, the thread seems to be in dire need of clarity so to summarise;

• The death penalty has been proved to be ineffective as a cime deterrent.
• It costs more to execute people than to keep them alive in prison for their entire lives.
• That saved money could (and should) be put towards better social servicing to help reduce cases like this and other less severe cases that in some cases may lead to cases like this. Prevention being better than cure. Cases.
• No matter what system you have in place, there will always be a % chance for innocent people to slip through and be unjustly executed. If these innocent people are imprisoned, at least you are giving them time to appeal their case as new evidence comes to light, or new technology comes in to use that proves their innocence and clears theirs and their families name, as has been done many times before.

There. And I even used bullet points.

mountainyman

Before the communists came to power China had a chronic opium addiction crisis. The death panalty was central in the elimination of opium in China.

my death penalty system in a modern state and without the ridiculous expectation that no innocent person will be killed will be highly successful.

At any rate those who are killed won't reoffend.

Robbo

Cianos wrote: »

Yet another thread on the death penalty. And for some reason I don't feel like contributing to this one....

...but, the thread seems to be in dire need of clarity so to summarise;

• The death penalty has been proved to be ineffective as a cime deterrent.
• It costs more to execute people than to keep them alive in prison for their entire lives.
• That saved money could (and should) be put towards better social servicing to help reduce cases like this and other less severe cases that in some cases may lead to cases like this. Prevention being better than cure. Cases.
• No matter what system you have in place, there will always be a % chance for innocent people to slip through and be unjustly executed. If these innocent people are imprisoned, at least you are giving them time to appeal their case as new evidence comes to light, or new technology comes in to use that proves their innocence and clears theirs and their families name, as has been done many times before.

There. And I even used bullet points.

You also forgot that the European Court of Human Rights and by extension the EU would have an absolute fit if the Learned Council of AH Keyboard Warriors For Justice and Retribution had there way.

But hey, it would be a handy way to crowbar in the Lisbon Treaty into a thread...

kleefarr

Cianos wrote: »

Yet another thread on the death penalty. And for some reason I don't feel like contributing to this one....

...but, the thread seems to be in dire need of clarity so to summarise;


[*]The death penalty has been proved to be ineffective as a cime deterrent.

There. And I even used bullet points.

Looks like murder increased when the death penalty was reduced, according to this..

Cianos

Emperor mountainyman, circa 2050 wrote: »

Before the communists came to power Ireland had a chronic alcohol crisis. The death penalty was central in the elimination of alcohol in Ireland.

my death penalty system in a modern state and without the ridiculous expectation that no innocent person will be killed was highly successful.

At any rate those who were killed didn't reoffend.

fixed

Nodin

mountainyman wrote: »

Before the communists came to power China had a chronic opium addiction crisis. The death panalty was central in the elimination of opium in China.

I suggest you read up on that, and not on some pro-death penalty blog either.

Lockstep

kleefarr wrote: »

Looks like murder increased when the death penalty was reduced, according to this..

That's the problem with graphs and statistics.
Also, where is your graph from? What countries/states etc is it referring to?
http://www.law.columbia.edu/law_school/communications/reports/summer06/capitalpunish
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/MurderRateGraph.gif

http://davecoop.net/rate.htm

kf1920

So first we start with the murderers,
Then move on to the drug dealers
Then the Rapists and Molesters
Then the bank robbers
Then the thieves
Then the Drunk Drivers
Then the litterers
Then the Jay Walkers
Then The kids who don't do their Homework
Then those who swear

It doesn't make sense to introduce a death penalty with our judicial system is a joke. We have laws that have loop holes (Statutory Rape), We have a bail system thats belief is that a hardened criminal will stop being one when facing a jail term.

We have jails that are like breeding and training grounds for criminal "Reform school was my primary school, St. Patrick's Institution my secondary school, and Mountjoy my university - they taught me everything I know."

We release criminals earlier if they behave because of overcrowding? Should we not keep those who mis behave in prison longer? The longest road trip is from the court house to the prison, it knocks a quarter of the term off!

So before we start wiping out those social miscreants how about we tackle the problem correctly? Hard time for possession of drugs, Hard time for possession of Firearms, Life sentences that mean "Your Life" Not 8 years.
Bail only for those who do not pose a risk to society, i.e. minor charges for non repeat offenders

Until we have a proper Judicial System in place and not a farce, we shouldn't even contemplate a Death Penalty.

So Mister Cowen and your Cronies how about you do what is needed in this country and not force a second unwanted and previously rejected independence-stripping Treaty down our throats!

An Fear Aniar

No, the death pernalty is barbarous, it makes all of us murderers.

However, I would be in favour of penal servitude rather than cosy cells with TV.


.

kleefarr

kickoutthejams wrote: »

That's the problem with graphs and statistics.
Also, where is your graph from? What countries/states etc is it referring to?
http://www.law.columbia.edu/law_school/communications/reports/summer06/capitalpunish
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/MurderRateGraph.gif

http://davecoop.net/rate.htm

I think it's based on the US. But would that make any difference? Murder in US is the same as murder in Ireland.

stovelid

Since I read that feedback thread, I can't stop laughing when I see the OP's name. I'll make a donation to SSF if the admins change his name to MountAnyMan for a day.

TX123

Cianos wrote: »

Yet another thread on the death penalty. And for some reason I don't feel like contributing to this one....

...but, the thread seems to be in dire need of clarity so to summarise;

• The death penalty has been proved to be ineffective as a cime deterrent.
• It costs more to execute people than to keep them alive in prison for their entire lives.
• That saved money could (and should) be put towards better social servicing to help reduce cases like this and other less severe cases that in some cases may lead to cases like this. Prevention being better than cure. Cases.
• No matter what system you have in place, there will always be a % chance for innocent people to slip through and be unjustly executed. If these innocent people are imprisoned, at least you are giving them time to appeal their case as new evidence comes to light, or new technology comes in to use that proves their innocence and clears theirs and their families name, as has been done many times before.

There. And I even used bullet points.

How would it be expensive. Brought into a room and shot in the head. A few yo yo's thats all then throw the corpse in a fire. Once a crime is commited you lose all rights and deserve to be treated like muck. People for the penalty are the ones who hate crime and want to live in a better society and those against it are hippies that protest about trees.

Wagon

Probably all been said but I couoldn't be arsed reading through 9 pages. Sort out the legal system properly for a start, if someone is given a 15 year sentence, the serve the full 15 years etc... No getting off easy. Try to eliminate as best we can the amount of wrong convictions etc... Then consider death penalty when there's a very solid legal system behind it. Sometimes it's needed to keep the good people alive.

thelordofcheese

mountainyman wrote: »

The problem with the death penalty is that it is final.

Fix'd.

mountainyman

My username relates to my love for mountains it has nothing to do with me being a rampantly priapic and indiscriminate homosexual (which I amn't btw)


The death penalty will be brought back.
If crime is out of control in this country but could be wiped out by hanging 200 people then those who oppose the death penalty oppose Ireland.
Those who oppose Ireland are traitors (or foreigners with an axe to grind).

The penalty for treason.

thelordofcheese

mountainyman wrote: »

My username relates to my love for mountains it has nothing to do with me being a rampantly priapic and indiscriminate homosexual (which I amn't btw)


The death penalty will be brought back.
If crime is out of control in this country but could be wiped out by hanging 200 people then those who oppose the death penalty oppose Ireland.
Those who oppose Ireland are traitors (or foreigners with an axe to grind).

The penalty for treason.

I'm not listening to you anymore, you're batshit loco.

TripleAce

mountainyman wrote: »

Is it time to bring back the death penalty and actually USE IT?!

That 13 year old who shot the mechanic
Option 1 hold his hand
try and rehabilitate him
lock him up again
hold his hand again
lock him up again

Option2 dangle him at the end of a rope dangle the fellow who gave him the gun at the end of a rope


Which option is the best

I know that innocent people will die if we introduce and use the death penalty but it is a price worth paying.

Option 2 - Screw the motherf*cker!

mountainyman

kf1920 wrote: »

S Life sentences that mean "Your Life" Not 8 years.

How is that better than death penalty. It is more expensive but why keep someone alive for life in prison jus get rid of them.

chrussell

mountainyman wrote: »

My username relates to my love for mountains it has nothing to do with me being a rampantly priapic and indiscriminate homosexual (which I amn't btw)


The death penalty will be brought back.
If crime is out of control in this country but could be wiped out by hanging 200 people then those who oppose the death penalty oppose Ireland.
Those who oppose Ireland are traitors (or foreigners with an axe to grind).

The penalty for treason.

Whilst I would like to see some people...the mother of baby p in england for example...be given the death penalty, Its too fragile, a life is a life and if someone who didnt commit a crime got wrongly convicted then theres no turning back. Your reasoning is pathetic... those who oppose Ireland??? your an idiot

mountainyman

at least chrussell I know that there is an apostrophe in You Are

of course traitors should be killed

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

mountainyman wrote: »

My username relates to my love for mountains it has nothing to do with me being a rampantly priapic and indiscriminate homosexual (which I amn't btw)


The death penalty will be brought back.
If crime is out of control in this country but could be wiped out by hanging 200 people then those who oppose the death penalty oppose Ireland.
Those who oppose Ireland are traitors (or foreigners with an axe to grind).

The penalty for treason.

Some time ago, a user called Degsy wrote "who cares what you read in books". It was the studpidest thing ever written on boards. Your comment above is now second.

thelordofcheese

mountainyman wrote: »

at least chrussell I know that there is an apostrophe in You Are

of course traitors should be killed

Your terrible definition of 'traitor' is why people are making fun of you.

Your opinions are awful and you should stop talking now.

chrussell

thelordofcheese wrote: »

Your opinions are awful and you should stop talking now.

I'll second that

Wagon

Actually, how the **** does a 13 year old manage to get their hands on a gun in the first place?

javaboy

Mathew Reilly wrote: »

No matter what the pc brigade says..a 13yr old (unless retarded) knows the difference between life and death.

What about a 12 year old?
What about an 11 year old?
10 year old?
6 year old?
4 year old?

You have to pick an actual age to draw the line at. Please pick one and explain why.

mountainyman wrote: »

Innocent people (of the specific crime they are charged with) have to die for the death panalty to be efficient. You have to accept some collateral damage.

Those so called innocents are ususally criminals.

Tee hee. Always a riot mountainyman. Guildford Four is all I need to say here. And if you think it couldn't happen nowadays because of DNA or whatever, you're wrong.

kf1920 wrote: »

So first we start with the murderers,
Then move on to the drug dealers
Then the Rapists and Molesters
Then the bank robbers
Then the thieves
Then the Drunk Drivers
Then the litterers
Then the Jay Walkers
Then The kids who don't do their Homework
Then those who swear

This is the kind of hysterical nonsense that stifles proper debate. Your slippery slope hasn't happened in the USA. There's no reason why that would happen.

Einstein

Why not face facts that the Death Penalty aint ever gonna come back,
and talk constructively on how the Justice and punishment system can be improved.

I think it's california has the three strike rule. 3rd time charged its an automatic 20 year prison sentance. Do not pass go, do not collect €200.

Life sentance over here is 7 years (i think) and most people get out in half that. Its completley backwards. I've yet to hear a news story about a conviction where I've thought, thats a good result. Half of the scum that get convicted for serious crimes are in their early 20's. They goto prison, learn even more, and come back out in their late twenties worse than when they went in.

I remember being at a visit to mountjoy in college, and one of the prisoners says that he has no doubt that he'll be back in prison fairly soon after he gets out.

I'm sorry, but WTF let pr!cks like him out in the first place?

cson

I think one of the most absurd things about incarceration in this country is the creature comforts some prisoners are allowed. If my meory serves me right, some of them have flatscreen tv's in their cells :eek:

Another thing that struck me is how the Electoral Act 2006 allowed prisoners to have a postal vote. Again this is imo crazy. If you commit a crime that warrants incarceration your rights as regards voting should be witheld until such a time as you're released. Held in 'abeyance' is how one Chief Justice termed it.

javaboy

cson wrote: »

Another thing that struck me is how the Electoral Act 2006 allowed prisoners to have a postal vote. Again this is imo crazy. If you commit a crime that warrants incarceration your rights as regards voting should be witheld until such a time as you're released. Held in 'abeyance' is how one Chief Justice termed it.

I don't know. It does remove the "lock up the opposition supporters and then they can't vote" tactic favoured by corrupt regimes.

cson

cson wrote: »

Argument irrelevant.

Even if the proposal was brought to referendum the Irish electorate would never vote for it.

Sure that bastion of peace of tranquilty the USA are getting great results in reducing crime through their continued use of capital punishment. :pac:

while its no bastion of tranquility at least they can fight back

TX123

TX123 wrote: »

well name another method to remove crime. its drachonian by the way. im just looking out for innocent people. why should they suffer at the hands of scum. do you not agree that a society free from crime is good.

step aside everyone, I have the solution.
Make everything legal and then society shall be free from crime

easy peasy