Heat Pumps - post here.

DC999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120335642#Comment_120335642

gov.ie - Climate Action: Energy Efficiency in Buildings (www.gov.ie) says ‘Actions recently completed under previous Climate Action Plans to improve energy efficiency in buildings include: Oil boilers banned in new homes from 2022 and gas boilers [banned in new homes] from 2025.’ I don’t know it that’s legislation now, or in-flight to become legislation, or simply a recommendation. Would be wild opposition to it, but we need to to change to hit targets.

Once that’s in, I expect there will be a point in time when they do the same for older houses. I’m ok with that once there are supports to make older houses suitable. Or staying on gas we’ll still have CO2 from a huge older number of houses. It says ‘12.6% of Ireland’s greenhouse gases in 2020 includes emissions from fuel used for space and hot water heating in buildings’.

House wise in Dublin, they’re feck all new builds. No space unless it’s small estates. It’s all North county Dublin or commuter counties. Not suggesting there is only Dublin.  

Apartments would be perfect for heatpump I’d guess as the are insulated by their neighbours. Or better yet, connected to district heating as they are high density. 

Biker1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120335871#Comment_120335871

Yes the HLI is very high and the airtightness test result is poor.

Calahonda52

A guide, for illustration purposes only

The 55 degrees C in the slide below will be lower for a heat pump, 55 is for gas boilers and the 45 return is required for self condensing

the_amazing_raisin

I'd love to do a course is heating system engineering and design. Not to start a business or anything, more to understand the design process behind a system. And perhaps spec an upgraded system for my house 😁

Anyone done any of the heat geek courses? They look like they cover a lot of content but I'm worried they're focused on people who are already heating engineers

(Btw, I'm an engineer myself but mostly software engineering)

JoannaHiace

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120334768#Comment_120334768

Our family of 4 would more than likely use that amount of hot water a day for showers / baths etc.

Say you don't have a need for heating from the heat pump, but you don't have enough excess PV electricity to heat your cylinder... would you turn your heat pump on during the night for a short period to heat the water cylinder? Probably isn't massively efficient for doing this?

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120338118#Comment_120338118

In the case of some heat pumps like a Daikin, they will try to limit the power use to the amount of excess solar

So if you have 1kW of excess then the heat pump will try to stay within that

You're correct that it's less efficient, but when the energy is free then efficiency really doesn't matter a whole lot 😉

Cycling the compressor does increase wear but I believe most heat pumps have a minimum run time to prevent excessive cycling. That minimum run time will have been set with the heat pumps expected lifetime in mind so as to ensure the heat pump lasts that long

JoannaHiace

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120338172#Comment_120338172

Are you sure about Daikin? I asked them about integrating with solar pv and they didn't seem to know much about it.

I just asked Samsung also... they talk on their website about integrating with solar pv, but they seem to have no idea about what it actually is or how it works. They told me the serial number of the heat pump and told me to google it to find the instruction manual. I kid you not.

This was actually the guy responsible for Samsung heat pumps in Ireland.

If they're selling a heat pump that's supposed to have all this smart solar pv integrated technology built-in they should really know something about it.

I spoke with a very experienced installer in the UK and asked him about this also. He burst out laughing. Said that he heard about heat pump companies making these claims.... he said its all nonsense. Said that it's like saying that your "hairdryer is integrated with a power station". It's all smoke and mirrors.

I spoke with another extremely experienced installer in the UK. He said that he put the same questions to Panasonic, to some of the most senior UK team... and they didn't have any answers. Nobody knows.

JoannaHiace

Wondering if anyone has any perspectives on this...

Say you want to heat up a cylinder of water every day and you want to use your heat pump to do this, but not to provide heat to the house... what's the most sensible way for the heat pump to do this?

Is it on for a short period of time or a long time?

What COP are we looking at roughly?

Say that this is a summer time scenario... would you leave the heat pump do its thing during the night time so you benefit from night rates, and if your tank is well insulated enough then the water should still be good during the day?

Calahonda52

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120333635#Comment_120333635

Have you a link pls to the history

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120340506#Comment_120340506

Well I would kindly suggest to those installers that they head back to school 😂

To be fair, from what I know a lot of them aren't well experienced with electrics or solar power

I would recommend looking up the installer guide from the product below (I don't think boards will allow me to attach a 20MB pdf)

https://www.daikin.ie/en_gb/products/product.html/EBLA04-08E3V3.html#Installer-reference-guide-documents-b7f056ea11

If you look up section 9.2.4 it should have the info about connecting to a smart grid, where a digital input can be used to turn the heat pump on when there is excess solar

If you look for "Smart grid operation modes" then it'll describe the different modes. When set to "Recommend on" the heat pump will try to either heat the hot water or the room.

If there's an energy meter attached it will monitor the amount of power being exported and adjust the heat pump output to match

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120340522#Comment_120340522

So the heating system will have the hot water and space heating on different pipe circuits and are controlled by valves

Typically there's a 3 way valve which will control whether the water is being heated or space heating. I think most heat pumps won't do both at the same time

So heating up only the water effectively comes with the system

If you wanted to do it from solar PV then using the method from the Daikin manual described could do this. You would need to provide a digital signal from somewhere to tell the heat pump to switch on

It's possible your inverter could do this. Alternatively you could use an Eddi with the added relay board and proper configuration

the_amazing_raisin

Also, just to be 100% clear, I don't have a Daikin heat pump nor do I have any interest in selling them

So far they're the only installer I've found with a good solution for using the heat pump as a PV diverter

There's also another thread where a boards member has done the same thing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058104393/daikin-altherma-3-and-solis-inverter

zoom_cool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120340506#Comment_120340506

I know there is a dry contact to activate DHW on my Heat Pump so if I do get PV I will use a Shelley relay to monitor export and if above a certain level say 1kw then activate the dry contact which in turn will start heat the Hot water in the Cylinder. Crude but would work :-)

JoannaHiace

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120340888#Comment_120340888

Thanks so much @the_amazing_raisin ... that thread is UTTERLY FASCINATING!!!

What's your own view on going for an "All in One" unit vs. one with a wall mounted unit and a separate water tank?

The all-in-one units look great and are very compact.

I guess having a separate water tank gives you more flexibility to tinker with it in future? e.g. adding an eddi etc?

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120341469#Comment_120341469

So I've a Dimplex A6 heat pump and one of its "features" is that the controller is built into the hot water tank

You're correct that it limits flexibility, I can't install an Eddi for example. So if I'm ever upgrading the heat pump I'll probably just get a basic indoor tank and a monobloc outdoor unit

I think the split systems, where there's an indoor and outdoor unit linked by a refrigerant line are possibly more efficient but they're more difficult to install since you need to pressurise the system with refrigerant

THE ALM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120340868#Comment_120340868

This is the start of them, 7 so far, so you should see them all listed.

https://youtu.be/l77GHZmQ4CM

stiofan85

I'm trying to get a better handle on my Samsung Joule Gen 5 and water heating as I've never touched the panel until recently other than to turn it on after a power cut.

I've set the timer for DHW to come on during the night only as we've night rate.... But after kids' bath and a couple of showers it's now heating the water outside of those hours. Temperature in the tank is 28.5 degrees so I'm guessing it is automatically running despite the timer. Is this the expected behaviour? Will it stop heating when it gets within 5 degrees of the set temperature? Is it possible/wise to stop this in favour of the timed setting?

JoannaHiace

Does anyone have a recommendation for a good heat pump installer in Dublin? I'm looking to get a Samsung + Joule system.

eljono

Hi all, we are looking at doing a retrofit energy upgrade which includes moving from a gas boiler to air-to-water HP. We have been quoted for the following HP: 8.5kW (Monobloc) Mitsubishi Ecodan Outdoor unit.

Wondering if anyone has good/bad experience with these HPs ?

Nelbert

We have the ecodan with the internal unit too. No issues with either. I'd suggest insisting they throw in the WiFi connector for the unit so you've the energy monitoring available on your phone via the Mitsubishi app

kabakuyu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120396183#Comment_120396183

Can you give us a hint of the cost and your circumstances, is it grant aided, other work being done, current BER.

eljono

Thanks Nelbert, good advice, I'll see if that can be added.

Darkslcie

Hi all, would be interested to know the thoughts from the group and I'm very new to this. But is €2700 a good price for a 3.5kw heatpump (split, air to air) including installation? (Mitsubishi model)

Its just for heating 40sqm workspace.

THE ALM

Will be starting down the road of getting prices soon and with so much information out there I'm wondering are there any makes and models to be looking at in particular or to be avoiding?

Thanks

Mr Q

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120422860#Comment_120422860

It might also come down to finding an installer/company that you are happy with and going with the brand they use. If you find what you think is the best brand but it is sized wrongly or installed badly it might not work as expected.

I have a NIBE unit and find it very good. Using about 2500kWh per year for heating, cooling and DHW but the hot water usage is quite low. House is about 200sqm.

MattressRick

Hi just wondering has anyone gotten a replacement motor/fan for a vent axia sentinel kinetic b?

Their distributors are charging 400 plus vat. Wondering if they're less expensive anywhere else.

Finding it hard to get one. Original needs replacing after only a few years. Speed was set too high.

Thanks.

THE ALM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120422981#Comment_120422981

Thanks Mr Q. I'll reach out to a few installers and see what comes back. Knowing who is a good installer is half the problem.

Mr Q

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120423169#Comment_120423169

A different brand but I needed a new remote for my Vortice unit. The distributor here tried to charge me almost three times the price of what the UK one did.

So worth looking elsewhere, do you have the part number from the motor/fan.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120422860#Comment_120422860

I have a Dimplex A class and while it works, that's about where the positives end. I would personally not buy a Dimplex again

MattressRick

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120423221#Comment_120423221

I do yeah. Thanks I'll try the UK too.

THE ALM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120423877#Comment_120423877

Thanks. Have reached out to a few Vaillant and Ecodan installers as they seem to be fairly well regarded. All in the install though but at least I will get some prices to get started.

Have a heat loss calculation done and a list of existing radiators with outputs so have figures for them.