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WHAT CONVINCED YOU?

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13567…11

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    #62
    The Mad Hatter
    Registered Users Posts: 4,718 ✭✭✭The Mad Hatter


    sukikettle wrote: »
    Are you an aimless creation in a very ordered universe Hatter.

    Ok, I'm being perfectly honest here. I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.


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    #63
    Mena
    Registered Users Posts: 3,180 ✭✭✭Mena


    sukikettle wrote: »
    Look it's not anyone's job to convince or prove.You accept Him or you don't I bet you've never asked Him to reveal Himself in your lives.

    Did you ask Thor to reveal Himself in your life? Can you so blindly ignore all the other gods out there based simply on what you were brought up to believe?


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    #64
    sukikettle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 315 ✭✭sukikettle


    Thor hasn't a book i.e. a bible that has 81% fulfilled itself and neither do any other religions. In fact none of them foretells and fulfills like the bible uniquely does
    p.s. the other 19% is to be fulfilled and not due to inaccuracy


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    #65
    --amadeus--
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,096 ✭✭✭--amadeus--


    sukikettle wrote: »
    Thor hasn't a book i.e. a bible that has 81% fulfilled itself and neither do any other religions. In fact none of them foretells and fulfills like the bible uniquely does
    p.s. the other 19% is to be fulfilled and not due to inaccuracy

    :eek:

    Any links to back up this rather amazing stat?


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    #66
    Pride Fighter
    Registered Users Posts: 5,729 ✭✭✭Pride Fighter


    sukikettle wrote: »
    I'm really sorry faith is not an option for you Pride. I mean that.

    I have a lot of faith.
    I have faith in my own abilities. I have faith in the decency of the human race. I have faith that no goal is insurmountable. I have faith in my family, friends and those around me. I have faith that some religions have done some good for humanity, but a lot of evil too. I have faith that Jesus existed, most scientists do. I also have faith that a mystical creature did not create the world in 6 days, and that the earth is over 6,000 years old.I also have faith in the following words, evidence, logic and reason.


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    #67
    UU
    Closed Accounts Posts: 879 ✭✭✭UU


    Oh numerous things! Well I think it was because I actually tried to be religious when I was a teenager so the whole issue was relevant to me. I don't think I ever really believed in God. As the philosopher Daniel Dennet says "most people don't believe in God but believe in belief in God". Then came along science! I got really interested in it especially biology and I really liked genetics and evolution which sorta pushed God back.

    The last straw was when I got really interested in philosophy. I loved the Greeks they were right sceptics but then I read stuff by Jean-Paul Sartre who was a French Existentialist thinker and he an atheist. I studied his stuff in French btw in college (where I am now). He says the reason that he doesn't believe in God is because we are not like a paper-cutter which has been designed by somebody "essence precedes existence" (objectivity) but "existence precedes essence" (subjectivity). Man exists first and then defines himself. But for me the fact that God doesn't exist or at least doesn't appear to is somewhat a disturbing thing because it means we are purely responsible for our lives and there is no law-giver which means ethics are ambiguous.


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    #68
    sukikettle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 315 ✭✭sukikettle


    The bible is the link. It fulfilled itself 81% up to the Resurrection. You surely knew that all fulfilled things in the bible were written hundreds and even thousands of years in advance.The remaining 19% is the Book of Revelation not yet fulfilled. No other faith/religion can claim this


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    #69
    AtomicHorror
    Registered Users Posts: 5,888 ✭✭✭AtomicHorror


    sukikettle wrote: »
    The bible is the link. It fulfilled itself 81% up to the Resurrection. You surely knew that all fulfilled things in the bible were written hundreds and even thousands of years in advance.The remaining 19% is the Book of Revelation not yet fulfilled. No other faith/religion can claim this

    Source or no dice.


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    #70
    rockbeer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,422 ✭✭✭rockbeer


    sukikettle wrote: »
    The bible is the link. It fulfilled itself 81% up to the Resurrection.

    You keep making this 81% claim all over the place. I suggest you should either provide some supporting evidence or consider keeping quiet about it for a while.


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    #71
    --amadeus--
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,096 ✭✭✭--amadeus--


    sukikettle wrote: »
    The bible is the link. It fulfilled itself 81% up to the Resurrection. You surely knew that all fulfilled things in the bible were written hundreds and even thousands of years in advance.The remaining 19% is the Book of Revelation not yet fulfilled. No other faith/religion can claim this

    Are you seriously trying to say that 81% of teh bible has come true and that only a bit of Revelations is left over? And what about all teh bits that contradict other bits? They cant all have come true!

    Seriously, a word to the wise about posting in here. Most people on here are rational, think logically and feel comfortable with figures. If you throw numbers (figures, not books of teh bible) around you need to back them up or you'll get ridiculed.


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    #72
    UU
    Closed Accounts Posts: 879 ✭✭✭UU


    sukikettle wrote: »
    The bible is the link. It fulfilled itself 81% up to the Resurrection. You surely knew that all fulfilled things in the bible were written hundreds and even thousands of years in advance.The remaining 19% is the Book of Revelation not yet fulfilled. No other faith/religion can claim this
    Somehow I can speak for all the disbelievers here when I say statistical improbability especially regarding something as ambiguous as the Bible is not a strong case at all and you're certainly doing a veraciously bad job in trying to convince us. If there's one thing atheists and agnostics are good at it is demanding rational arguments for things. Sorry but we really aren't a gullible bunch.

    You may think the Bible is so great but it was only said to be written by men. The Qur'an on the other hand is said to be the actual word on God handed down to Mohammed and it is also said that it hasn't been altered since it was written. I think if I were religious (which I most definitely am not), I'd go with the Qur'an as it seems slightly more plausible than the Bible to me. Besides, ever hear of the Mayan prophecies? They're said to predict things too and are much older than the Bible. In fairness the Bible is just a cut, copy, paste and alteration of ancient local Pagan stories and is so ambiguous that nobody knows who the authors were and there are so many others non-canonised books that were found with tell opposing stories to the Bible. As Richard Dawkins said "the difference between the Da Vinci Code and the bible is this. The Da Vinci Code is modern fiction and the Bible is just ancient fiction!"


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    #73
    sukikettle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 315 ✭✭sukikettle


    U-unity
    N-non-mythical
    I-Intact
    T-Time
    Y-Yield

    85 prophecies have been fulfilled. This collection of prophecies and fulfilled promises are called the bible. Richard Dawkins, Nostradamus and every other religion and faith have no such collection of texts of this type. If this is not good enough and you require blood at this time then you need Jesus
    p.s. even Nostradamus' prophecies were found to be fallible. No such proof of the bible's fallibility exists. Find me where the bible is fallible. It does not contradict itself it is your lack of reading it and having your eyes and ears opened to the Word


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    #74
    kiffer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,097 ✭✭✭kiffer


    sukikettle wrote: »
    The bible is the link. It fulfilled itself 81% up to the Resurrection. You surely knew that all fulfilled things in the bible were written hundreds and even thousands of years in advance.The remaining 19% is the Book of Revelation not yet fulfilled. No other faith/religion can claim this

    I'm sure they can claim it... you're claiming it and so far you've not substantiated your claim in anyway...

    I could claim that the Norse myths are 17% fulfilled and we're just waiting for Ragnarök to kick in...

    I could claim it but that wouldn't make it true...
    and not because I don't have a handy book of Norse Mythology here beside me.

    In short, back up your claim or stop making it.


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    #75
    --amadeus--
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,096 ✭✭✭--amadeus--


    Shame Gareth has been perma-banned, you'd have liked him

    Again, friendly word to teh wise - there is a note in teh charter you may have missed:
    Charter
    3. While posting of controversial questions to stimulate debate is acceptable, soap boxing, i.e constant repetition of a single viewpoint while refusing to entertain discussion on it, is both disruptive and annoying, and will not be tolerated. You are expected to contribute something other than placard proclamations.

    You've posted a concrete figure and claim - 81% of the bible has come true. Now can you please stop ducking and say where this number came from? Ideally in a way that we can understand?


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    #76
    UU
    Closed Accounts Posts: 879 ✭✭✭UU


    sukikettle wrote: »
    Thor hasn't a book i.e. a bible that has 81% fulfilled itself and neither do any other religions. In fact none of them foretells and fulfills like the bible uniquely does
    p.s. the other 19% is to be fulfilled and not due to inaccuracy
    Actually Thor did have a book well it was actually the Norse sagas which were written down even though they were carried through an oral tradition for a long time and are perhaps highly fascinating pieces. A lot were stories and poems and it is highly fascinating. But how can we say that the Vikings were anymore wrong in their beliefs than Christians? Say if Nordic beliefs was the major world religion and Christianity/Judaism was considered some ancient mythology, wouldn't we be here saying that Nordicism is more true than Judaism/Christianity? It seems to me that you know nothing about paganism, in this case Nordic paganism. I'd suggest doing your research by this helpful link by the lovely Wikipedia!

    May Thor be in your heart with love, happiness and health! ;)


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    #77
    sukikettle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 315 ✭✭sukikettle


    Thor promised you nothing and He cares nothing for you. He didn't die and shed his blood so you could be with him forever ruling with Him.


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    #78
    kiffer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,097 ✭✭✭kiffer


    I've reformatted the following slightly and dropped it to lower case to make it seem less rabid and shouty (I know shouty isn't a word)
    sukikettle wrote: »
    he exists regardless.
    he is very powerful and described in the bible as a consuming fire.
    there is a judgement coming on the world and it will happen regardless.
    it's a terrible day for those who will not choose him.

    Right... I've a question... it's probably come up before but I'm still going to say this...

    To me this reads like some sort of mafia threat.
    "Do you know who I work for?! Do what I want or he'll have you tortured/killed!"

    I feel like this every time a religious person tries to tell me that their interpretation is what I should believe (if they swing out the divine punishment line).
    My version is the truth and if you don't believe me then my boss will mess you up.

    You are delivering a threat for a third party, a third party which you believe exists and is as real to you as the threat delivered by some Wiseguy for his mafia Don.

    OK so I don't believe that there is any substance in the threat... BUT you do...
    You believe that the threat you are delivering is real...

    Why should I think more of you then I do of someone threatening me in the street?
    I suppose you can try to claim that you're not threatening, you're warning... I'm sure that would hold water.


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    #79
    UU
    Closed Accounts Posts: 879 ✭✭✭UU


    sukikettle wrote: »
    Thor promised you nothing and He cares nothing for you. He didn't die and shed his blood so you could be with him forever ruling with Him.
    Actually according to the Prose Edda, Thor was to meet his death to Ragnarök (the end of days) the hands of Jörmungandr (the giant serpent). The two mortal enemies were locked in combat and though Thor did defeat the great serpent, he was only able to take nine steps before falling dead from the venom. And he did this for the freedom on mankind. Well Jesus only got pinned to a cross. He had it easy the stupid coward. Thor was far more brave, strong and handsome because he battled with a giant serpent and died for humankind! His death had to happen, it was inevitable or humans wouldn't have been freed! So there! Bleh! :P


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    #80
    kiffer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,097 ✭✭✭kiffer


    sukikettle wrote: »
    Thor promised you nothing and He cares nothing for you. He didn't die and shed his blood so you could be with him forever ruling with Him.

    No... that would be Odin.
    He died on the Tree of Life after hanging on it for 9 days and nights with a spear in his side, and descended into the underworld to gain knowledge over death... as well as life.

    Also if you die in Glorious battle you get to drink in his mead hall, Valhalla, untill Ragnarok... when you'll have to fight...

    There is one mead hall that will survive Ragnarok... but I've forgotten what you've got to do to get in to that one. If you get in to that one you have to repopulate the world after Ragnarok.


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    #81
    kiffer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,097 ✭✭✭kiffer


    I know what... I know this is the atheist forum but I've got to say it...
    If I was going to believe in any god or gods I'd pick the norse ones... they make more sense than the omnipotent christian god.

    NOT that they make MUCH sense...
    but at least they are not all powerful, they make mistakes, they don't know everything, and so they can be excused for not doing the things that a Loving AND Omnipotent god should be doing.


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    #82
    UU
    Closed Accounts Posts: 879 ✭✭✭UU


    kiffer wrote: »
    I know what... I know this is the atheist forum but I've got to say it...
    If I was going to believe in any god or gods I'd pick the norse ones... they make more sense than the omnipotent christian god.

    NOT that they make MUCH sense...
    but at least they are not all powerful, they make mistakes, they don't know everything, and so they can be excused for not doing the things that a Loving AND Omnipotent god should be doing.
    Yeah I agree with you actually. You gotta love the Scandinavians! ;)


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    #83
    sukikettle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 315 ✭✭sukikettle


    Kiffer it's not a threat it's a promise and I'm only stating what already exists. You need to ask yourself why you don't want to live eternally in a Heaven that no eye has seen, nor ear heard or heart imagined. He loves you Kiffer and He created you for Himself. You are not a separate entity. He gave you free will to deny or accept Him. That part is totally up to you. When you stand before Him He will show you your postings and mine and play back the conversations you've ever heard and you'll have to say you rejected all of it. What can He do then. He says in His Word He will have to turn you away.His love and eternal life is a free gift. He wants you as you are now. Goodnight


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    #84
    Galvasean
    Registered Users Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    sukikettle wrote: »
    You need to ask yourself why you don't want to live eternally in a Heaven that no eye has seen, nor ear heard or heart imagined.

    If nobody has ever seen, heard or imagined it whose to say it's all it's cracked up to be?


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    #85
    aidan24326
    Registered Users Posts: 5,925 ✭✭✭aidan24326


    sukikettle wrote: »
    Thor hasn't a book i.e. a bible that has 81% fulfilled itself and neither do any other religions. In fact none of them foretells and fulfills like the bible uniquely does
    p.s. the other 19% is to be fulfilled and not due to inaccuracy

    You are either trolling with these numbers or you're completely off your head. Which is it? Both maybe?
    sukikettle wrote: »
    U-unity
    N-non-mythical
    I-Intact
    T-Time
    Y-Yield

    What?

    85 prophecies have been fulfilled.

    Name a few.

    Richard Dawkins, Nostradamus and every other religion...

    LOL Richard Dawkins is a religion now?!

    No such proof of the bible's fallibility exists. Find me where the bible is fallible. It does not contradict itself it is your lack of reading it and having your eyes and ears opened to the Word

    Have you read any of it? To suggest the bible is infallible is laughable. It's late at night so I'll assume you're just drunk or something.


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    #86
    kiffer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,097 ✭✭✭kiffer


    sukikettle wrote: »
    Kiffer it's not a threat it's a promise
    This is the sort of thing I mean...
    I can imagine you as either a child on the play ground or a mafioso...
    It's not a threat, it's a promise!
    My Da/older brother/Boss/God will bust you up.

    and I'm only stating what already exists.
    No, you're stating your belief in something for which you have no evidence, in which I have no belief.
    You need to ask yourself why you don't want to live eternally in a Heaven that no eye has seen, nor ear heard or heart imagined.

    :eek:
    Why don't I want to live forever?
    Maybe I want to go drink in Valhalla instead? Do I get to pick afterlives based on want? Does WANT have any effect on reality? No, it does not. Want can't make heaven real.
    He loves you Kiffer and He created you for Himself. You are not a separate entity. He gave you free will to deny or accept Him. That part is totally up to you. When you stand before Him He will show you your postings and mine and play back the conversations you've ever heard and you'll have to say you rejected all of it. What can He do then.

    Well... if he was love, loving, forgiving and so on he'd love and forgive me... not drive nails into my eyes over and over again for ever and ever while I was on fire and had screws drilled in to my regenerating kneecaps over and over again... of course in recent times some Christians claim that hell is just being out of God's presence... but somehow this is like being in a lake of fire cause you're so upset that you're not in heaven... still seems pretty mean for a entity of pure love and forgiveness.
    I'll stick with the Wailing, gnashing of teeth and eternal punishment lines from the 'good' book. and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. (if I had a worst enemy...)
    He says in His Word He will have to turn you away.His love and eternal life is a free gift. He wants you as you are now. Goodnight

    He wants me as I am now, then why would he turn me away?
    A free gift! excellent! and he wants me as I am?! and he loves me!
    No need to change so, I can carry on not believing in him so.
    If he's loving and forgiving I'm ok. if he's not I'll start my own heaven ... with blackjack and hookers.

    Did you ever get round to posting any links supporting you 81% complete statement?


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    #87
    Mena
    Registered Users Posts: 3,180 ✭✭✭Mena


    I want to see proof of this magical 81% before I bother any more with this guy.


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    #88
    achtungbarry
    Closed Accounts Posts: 831 ✭✭✭achtungbarry


    I was born an atheist.

    Who am I to question my natural state ?


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    #89
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    Before anyone asks... no we can't keep her!

    Okay, maybe for a bit. But if she chews the furniture she's gone.


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    #90
    sukikettle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 315 ✭✭sukikettle


    The bible wasn't written in one go it was written over fourteen centuries and it is infallible why don't you guys prove to me otherwise. There is not a single contestable fact-fact!
    If you reject God your whole life why would He let you move in Kiffer?
    And p.s. there is no eternal hell. The bible says the wages of sin is death. You will be an eternal plume of smoke. If you hanker after hell because you want to do what you want that's what you'll get my friend. It's all about choices and look up any number of bible scholars ie David Pawson and Derek Prince for 81% fulfilled fact to name just a couple...I'm not a guy and I'm not speaking from swings and roundabouts
    p.s. Dawkins is a religion to believe there is no God requires faith, God loves you Aidan my friend


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    #91
    Tar.Aldarion
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,090 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    I can't even tell what side you are on.


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