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The next generation "NCF" Mobile phones will eliminate global cash.

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    #122
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    Would you have a problem disclosing your GSM coordinates and other personal details to the system every time you wanted to make a simple purchase among your close friends and family members?

    Letting the system know where exactly you are, how much is being transacted. In some cases the authorities could request remote access to your phone to check out text messages and other correspondence leading up to your personal electronic cash transaction.
    But "they" already do that when you use an ATM or internet banking.
    And the authorities can access this stuff in certain circumstances anyway.
    So why is it a problem, or a problem unique to this scary new technology?


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    #123
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    King Mob wrote: »
    But "they" already do that when you use an ATM or internet banking.
    And the authorities can access this stuff in certain circumstances anyway.
    So why is it a problem, or a problem unique to this scary new technology?

    You are about to go on my ignore list.

    You haven't a clue even what this thread or NFC technology is even about going by your constant trolling.


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    #124
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    You are about to go on my ignore list.

    You haven't a clue even what this thread or NFC technology is even about going by your constant trolling.

    Well if this is true, it's because you are either unwilling or unable to answer simple questions about it.

    I am asking you straight out why this technology is bad, you have not been able to explain it beyond nebulous scaremongering about shadowy boogeymen who want this information even though they would already have it.

    So go ahead, ignore questions you can't actually answer, you never had any interest in discussion anyway.


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    #125
    GreenWolfe
    Registered Users Posts: 1,731 ✭✭✭GreenWolfe


    Actually, the app recording location info would be beneficial imo. What if the app's security precautions failed and proof needed to be offered that someone else used your login details/whatever else without authorisation?

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't authorities just order networks to hand over subscribers information if they're suspected of a crime already.

    Here's a non-evil use for NFC, I could get a Nokia Luna bluetooth headset and tap it to my NFC-enabled Nokia and they can pair instantly. Still evil?


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    #126
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    EarthlyPangaea wrote: »
    Actually, the app recording location info would be beneficial imo. What if the app's security precautions failed and proof needed to be offered that someone else used your login details/whatever else without authorisation?
    There are plenty of benefits in any electronic tracking system.
    EarthlyPangaea wrote: »
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't authorities just order networks to hand over subscribers information if they're suspected of a crime already.
    That has always been the case but as in the case of TFL, police can now have live access to Oystercard records so it will only be a matter of time before the authorities will be able to monitor live any traffic from your ISP or SP without a warrant.
    EarthlyPangaea wrote: »
    Here's a non-evil use for NFC, I could get a Nokia Luna bluetooth headset and tap it to my NFC-enabled Nokia and they can pair instantly. Still evil?
    There is nothing "EVIL" about NFC used in phones or any cashless technology, its just like having a loaded a gun sitting in a cabinet. It can only become "EVIL" should it ever get into the wrong hands and we have come across plenty of "wrong hands" down through history.

    Could you imagine the same paranoid authorities that criminalises, imprisons and deports ordinary people over trivial social network comments watching over your shoulder at every single cashless transaction you make and then the possibility of holding it against you should it ever be deemed necessary to do so?


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    #127
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    The fact that you may be forced to carry your phone on you at all times means that you could be pinpointed within inches anywhere in public if your phone has the latest Broadcom 4752 ,microchip chip incorporated into it.

    The United Arab Emirates signed a deal with telecommunications company, Etisalat, to embed citizens' national ID information into mobile phones. They will now be exploring a system that would utilize an NFC or Near Field Communication application, which allows cell phones to communicate data via radio frequency within very close range. The UAE has had a national ID system since 2004, with IDs carrying a chip similar to one on a credit card and holding a person's name, birthday, gender, photograph, fingerprint, and ID number.

    Since carrying an ID card is mandatory in the UAE, this may mean that Emirati citizens may begin to be required to carry their phones on them at all times. Their objectives for working towards implementing this system currently unknown. However, integrating personal data with mobile phones can only bring trouble.

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/04/12/uae_nfc_id/


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    #128
    hooradiation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,922 ✭✭✭hooradiation


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    The fact that you may be forced to carry your phone on you at all times means that you could be pinpointed within inches anywhere in public if your phone has the latest Broadcom 4752 ,microchip chip incorporated into it.

    There is a hell of a lot of conditionals in that sentence.


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    #129
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    hooradiation wrote: »
    There is a hell of a lot of conditionals in that sentence.

    It looks like Samsung are experimenting with this themselves at their own factory, it would make sense as everyone these days carries a mobile phone and because they are so personalized with APPS, games, ,videos, music cameras etc people are less likely to want to loose them than an ID card.

    Samsung scrapping ID cards in favor of NFC-equipped handsets


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    #130
    hooradiation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,922 ✭✭✭hooradiation


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    It looks like Samsung are experimenting with it at their own factory, it would make sense. Everyone carries a mobile phone and because they are so personalized people are less likely to want to loose it. They are alsoo so handy with APPS, games, address books etc that people are more likely to want it on them at all times.

    Samsung scrapping ID cards in favor of NFC-equipped handsets

    The biggest problem I can see is that people lose phones all the damn time, or have them stolen, or render them useless through unintentional exposure to elements/blunt force - how does this idea of your gel with people being scatterbrained and careless?

    Isn't it pretty bloody useless if the phones are so fragile and prone to theft?


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    #131
    clever_name
    Registered Users Posts: 462 ✭✭clever_name


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    The fact that you may be forced to carry your phone on you at all times means that you could be pinpointed within inches anywhere in public if your phone has the latest Broadcom 4752 ,microchip chip incorporated into it.

    The United Arab Emirates signed a deal with telecommunications company, Etisalat, to embed citizens' national ID information into mobile phones. They will now be exploring a system that would utilize an NFC or Near Field Communication application, which allows cell phones to communicate data via radio frequency within very close range. The UAE has had a national ID system since 2004, with IDs carrying a chip similar to one on a credit card and holding a person's name, birthday, gender, photograph, fingerprint, and ID number.

    Since carrying an ID card is mandatory in the UAE, this may mean that Emirati citizens may begin to be required to carry their phones on them at all times. Their objectives for working towards implementing this system currently unknown. However, integrating personal data with mobile phones can only bring trouble.

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/04/12/uae_nfc_id/

    If the UAE wants to make sure that every citizen has a nice modern mobile then thats great for them, it would be great if the government made sure everyone got access to modern tech. Obliviously it would be less useful as an ID system than a card - dont want to carry ID? simple have a flat battery.


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    #132
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    hooradiation wrote: »
    The biggest problem I can see is that people lose phones all the damn time, or have them stolen, or render them useless through unintentional exposure to elements/blunt force - how does this idea of your gel with people being scatterbrained and careless?

    Isn't it pretty bloody useless if the phones are so fragile and prone to theft?
    As with any smart card it would only takes a few minutes to flash your personal details on to a new phone.

    The US is of last week tightening its belt on smart phone theft, this could become global so a phone could be bricked anywhere in the world if swiped and its NFC capabilities red flagged if someone tried to use it.

    Phones are a lot more durable compared to previous, no keyboards to let spilled coffee or moisture through.
    clever_name wrote: »
    If the UAE wants to make sure that every citizen has a nice modern mobile then thats great for them, it would be great if the government made sure everyone got access to modern tech. Obliviously it would be less useful as an ID system than a card - dont want to carry ID? simple have a flat battery.


    NFC controllers can be passive RFID and can still operate when the phone battery is flat.


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    #133
    clever_name
    Registered Users Posts: 462 ✭✭clever_name


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    NFC controllers can still operate when the phone battery is flat.

    http://www.nfcworld.com/2010/12/02/35323/samsung-enters-nfc-controller-market/

    Ok good to know, its still great that every person in the UAE would get a nice modern phone.


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    #134
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    clever_name wrote: »
    Ok good to know, its still great that every person in the UAE would get a nice modern phone.

    More than likely they would be handed out a sticker for existing smart phone, these would cost pittance of course if they wanted an IPhone 5 or Galaxy 3s they would have to get it themselves. :)

    http://www.psfk.com/2012/04/barclays-nfc-sticker-turns-your-mobile-phone-into-a-credit-card.html


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    #135
    clever_name
    Registered Users Posts: 462 ✭✭clever_name


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    More than likely they would be handed out a sticker for existing smart phone, these would cost pittance of course if they wanted an IPhone 5 or Galaxy 3s they would have to get it themselves. :)

    http://www.psfk.com/2012/04/barclays-nfc-sticker-turns-your-mobile-phone-into-a-credit-card.html

    And if they dont have a smart phone?


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    #136
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    clever_name wrote: »
    And if they dont have a smart phone?
    Tough. :p

    They would probably have to stick with their normal ID card.

    They might get some incentives to switch over such as subsidies from service providers, bank and state etc.


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    #137
    clever_name
    Registered Users Posts: 462 ✭✭clever_name


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    Tough. :p

    They would probably have to stick with their normal ID card.

    They might get some incentives to switch over such as subsidies from service providers, bank and state etc.

    So people could stick with the old ID and not be forced to carry a phone at all times like you suggested, so nothing sinister just business as usual.


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    #138
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    clever_name wrote: »
    So people could stick with the old ID and not be forced to carry a phone at all times like you suggested, so nothing sinister just business as usual.
    I would imagine there would have to be a lead in period as with any other form of new ID.


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    #139
    hooradiation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,922 ✭✭✭hooradiation


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    Phones are a lot more durable compared to previous, no keyboards to let spilled coffee or moisture through.

    god, I wish....


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