How do you perceive the overall work of the Gardai

metman

Boston wrote: »

would you report a racist colleague?

What a stupid, offensive and off-topic question.

Hagar

Has any Garda on this forum ever seen a collegue break the law? Ever? Any law?

Say parking his own private vehicle, not an official vehicle on official business, on double yellow lines in the city centre perhaps? Maybe even double parking on double yellow lines? Say Store St for instance?

Did you issue a ticket? Would I have got a ticket parked in the same place?

Boston wrote:

would you report a racist colleague?]

Metman wrote:

What a stupid, offensive and off-topic question.

How is that question stupid in multicultural Ireland? It's bang on topic too as far a public perception of the force goes.

metman

Maybe you should accuse cops of eating too many donuts as well, just to maintain the stereotypical line of questioning.

djtechnics1210

Only last year a member off duty struck a male in his private car (im sure everyone is aware of the case).. he was investigated by AGS internal affairs, GSOC and when all that was finally finished, then the family took a civil case against him. No other person in the country gets investigated 3 times for the same alleged crime or tried in a court 3 times for the same crime...... but gardai do and even then people claim collusion etc.
And he got the exact same treatment as any other person. was given breath specimen etc etc.

Hagar

metman wrote: »

Maybe you should accuse cops of eating too many donuts as well, just to maintain the stereotypical line of questioning.

Doughnuts, doughnuts, doughnuts!!! Not donuts. Standards are slipping.

civdef

Unless this thread gets a lot more civil in a hurry it's going to be closed.

TheNog

tallaght01 wrote: »

I said a lot of people share his opinions. I think he means the gardai shoud have the ability to deal with that situation. I think a lot of people would agree.

The public order unit have the proper equipment to deal with a situation such as this, normal uniformed members on patrol are not.

Eru

Hagar wrote: »

Has any Garda on this forum ever seen a collegue break the law? Ever? Any law?

Say parking his own private vehicle, not an official vehicle on official business, on double yellow lines in the city centre perhaps? Maybe even double parking on double yellow lines? Say Store St for instance?

Did you issue a ticket? Would I have got a ticket parked in the same place?




How is that question stupid in multicultural Ireland? It's bang on topic too as far a public perception of the force goes.

Last time I checked having a racist outlook isnt a crime its a personal opinion. Are we the thought police now as well?

I have given Gardai tickets, of course I have. Last time I checked my car didnt have 'Garda's personal car' stamped on it.

And no, I have never see an on duty colleague break the law. I have not been present when an off duty Garda was arrested either but I am aware of cases where they have been arrested and charged. Some found guilty and some not.

But guess what, none of my non-Garda friends have ever been arrested or commited crime in front of me either.

Hagar

Fair reply, thanks.

Bren1609

TheNog wrote: »

Anyone is any job is allowed to retire if facing a dismissal and there is no company or organisation in this country that can take your pension off you.

I beg to differ. Anyway, fact is they werent disciplined.

TheNog

Bren1609 wrote: »

I beg to differ. Anyway, fact is they werent disciplined.

If you believe a company cannot take away your pension then you are wrong. If you think you are right then lets have some examples please.

Also for those Gardai who resigned in Donegal were publicly disgraced and rightly so and lost their jobs even if they did resign. Is not enough for you though?

Bren1609

Im just pointing out the details.

deadwood

Jesus.
I come home and it's like mammy and daddy are having a row. (and not the kind of row where, as a young deadwood, I saw mammy trying to bite off daddys not-so-dead wood. hugghhrrgghh)

Good to see some fresh contributors. I recognise a few of the names of those who log on but don't post.

It can get a bit clique-ish here, so some fresh opinions are a good way to stimulate debate.

djtechnics1210

I love to serve next to the heroic members of An Garda Siochana and all the members of ES who do such a hard job for little or no thanks..... there will always be people that want to bash AGS and other ES members though, but these people would never have the courage and bravery to do the job ES members do.

Hagar

djtechnics1210 wrote: »

I love to serve next to the heroic members of An Garda Siochana and all the members of ES who do such a hard job for little or no thanks.

I thought from your posts you were a member?
Don't say you're a parking/litter/dog warden or some other wannabe and shatter my illusions.

FWIW I echo your sentiments that the ES personnel are largely unsung heroes who do their utmost to make it safe for the rest of us to go about our daily lives.

Eru

Bren1609 wrote: »

Im just pointing out the details.

Incorrectly.

Gardai pay into a private pension fund. Its got nothing to do with the state and despite public opinion, is not simple handed out. Also despite what you think, no company or agency can remove your pension. Admit when your wrong and your opinions will be given more weight.

As for simple retiring, the same for any company. If you boss finds you ****ed up you can resign or retire prior to getting sacked. Every worker has the right to leave their employment and every person once their have reached the adequate age/ service are entitled to retire. Should everyone or just Gardai be worked to death?

In regards little action been taken (your wrong that none was but yes, it was minor). The system in place at the time did not allow for investigations to be taken against retired Gardai for discipline purposes (of course criminal could). Now the Ombudsman and internal affairs can investigate retired Gardai however what exactly do you expect to happen? They have retired, how can any company punish someone that no longer works for them? Deduct his non existent wages? Sack him after he left? Reduce his non existent rank? What?

Perhaps we should just ignore all workers movements and what they achieved in the past or again, is it just emergency services that should have no rights or protections and be open to public flogging?

Boston

metman wrote: »

What a stupid, offensive and off-topic question.

I take that as a no then, you wouldn't report an officer who was actively racist in his/her duties. Bloody typical.

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

Last time I checked having a racist outlook isnt a crime its a personal opinion. Are we the thought police now as well?

It should be one of the preconditions before being allowed to serve that you're not actively prejudice.

I have given Gardai tickets, of course I have. Last time I checked my car didnt have 'Garda's personal car' stamped on it.

Given your tag line, I'm a bit shocked at that.

djtechnics1210 wrote: »

I love to serve next to the heroic members of An Garda Siochana and all the members of ES who do such a hard job for little or no thanks..... there will always be people that want to bash AGS and other ES members though, but these people would never have the courage and bravery to do the job ES members do.

They get thanked in the form of a pay cheque/ direct debit. If that's not good enough then find another job. I'm sick to the back teeth of the attitude that doing a hard and/or dangerous job deserves some form of special graditude. More people per capita are killed or seriously injured on building sites then in AGS. Next time I see a heroic plumber or plasterer I must thank him for having the courage and bravery to go to work.

I couldn't hack being a member of AGS. I just couldn't find it in myself to show the level of indifference towards corruption, incompetence and the community I serve, which is clearly required.

Eru

Boston wrote: »

It should be one of the preconditions before being allowed to serve that you're not actively prejudice.

So its OK to think it as long as you dont act on it?

Boston wrote: »

More people per capita are killed or seriously injured on building sites then in AGS.

not true, more used to die. Not anymore and Gardai are injured in a far greater rate than builders per head. BTW, do you have anything to support these claims? Can you show me stats on how many builders were injured serving YOU in the past year? How many builders were injured going into a dangerous situation for the benefit of YOU in the past year?

Boston wrote: »

never time I see a heroic plumber or plaster I must thank him for having the courage and bravery to go to work.

Thats not necessary but maybe you should spend more time on the builders and plumpers board telling them how to do their jobs and how lazy and useless they are? Personally I do thank my plumber when he fixes my leak, its called manners.

Boston wrote: »

I couldn't hack being a member of AGS.

The truth shall set you free. No seriously, why dont you join up, at least as a reserve if you dont want to leave you cosy office, and reform us from within? Expose our failings and show us how it should be done by a supercop?

Boston

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

So its OK to think it as long as you dont act on it?

Absolutely. People should be free to think and feel whatever way they want and once it doesn't effect their work then it's no else's business. For example, I'm extremely anti drug use but I never let someone's personal recreational habits get in the way of working with them.

Another example is that I had at least one homophobic teacher in school, who wasn't open about it and he never displayed a bias in class. I only knew due to picking up on an off the cuff comment once. I've huge respect for that man for many reasons despite his flaws. Far more respect for him then the Muppet teachers who came in trying to force his 'positive' attitude towards homosexuality and gay student onto everyone else.

not true, more used to die. Not anymore and Gardai are injured in a far greater rate than builders per head. BTW, do you have anything to support these claims? Can you show me stats on how many builders were injured serving YOU in the past year? How many builders were injured going into a dangerous situation for the benefit of YOU in the past year?

I recall looking at stats about 2 years ago which showed the building sector had the highest per capita rate of injuries and deaths over all sectors including the public sector (which AGS would come under). I'll try to find the site for you.

As for how many where injured, the same number of AGS injured directly serving me.

Thats not necessary but maybe you should spend more time on the builders and plumpers board telling them how to do their jobs and how lazy and useless they are? Personally I do thank my plumber when he fixes my leak, its called manners.

Who said lazy? Who said useless? I wouldn't. Also I'm not telling you how to do you job.

1) Lazy, hmm interesting you should mentioned that. "Its not my job to give a ****" seems to be a common theme with some gardai. Bare minimum to get through the day. Thats a flaw with the civil service though.
2) Useless, hmm , I've actually got no grudge against the Gardai. I have against vigilantes based on experiences of the late 90s. So I know what a society without a police force is like. Hence I would never say useless.

why dont you join up, at least as a reserve if you dont want to leave you cosy office, and reform us from within? Expose our failings and show us how it should be done by a supercop?

Maybe I will! Can I start as a detective?

Bren1609

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

Perhaps we should just ignore all workers movements and what they achieved in the past or again, is it just emergency services that should have no rights or protections and be open to public flogging?

You're hardly suggesting that public sector employees are held more accountable than private sector? You speak of workers movements and employee protection and rights, however non of this was achived by AGS.

I'm sorry but did the members in question not break the law? Or is it just civilians who are open to prosecution? There were also other involved who were not disciplined at all.

Eru

Boston wrote: »

Absolutely. People should be free to think and feel whatever way they want and once it doesn't effect their work then it's no else's business. For example, I'm extremely anti drug use but I never let someone's personal recreational habits get in the way of working with them.

well obviously we dont stand around and allow Garda KKK to hang black people. AGS like society does not, thankfully, accept and condone open racism. While people may have the opinion, its rarely manifested in action.

Boston wrote: »

I recall looking at statics about 2 years ago which showed the building sector had the highest per capita rate of injuries and deaths over all sectors including the public sector (which AGS would come under). I'll try to find the site for you.

THose stats were for a period 2 or 3 years previous when that industry was still growing not shrinking and you had a lot of foeign nationals working in it who were either unaware of Irish law or simple used to lower safety and working standards. They were also printed in the papers as it was big news but it led to increased workers rights and safety standards in the sector. Accidents on sites are now rare and deaths even rarer.

BTW, the number 1 on duty death rate globally are loggers and the number 1 for suicide is doctors. Police globally rank 2nd in both but its feasible that the military is not included nor every nation.

I think I can put this too bed, at least between you and I. Gardai are doing the best they can with what they have for the most part. Sometimes people dont like how we deal with things (one person thinks wer too lenient and another to tough) but generally were trying.

Try to remember that we have families. Mothers, daughters, etc. We have friends. We socialise. We live in communities, our children go to school and the local playground (assuming your lucky enough to have a house with one nearby). Do you honestly think we dont care about crime? that we dont care if theres junkies leaving needles in playgrounds or schools? If theres a sex offender out there? Or little ****s terrorising the estates? Of course we do, we worry about crime as much as everyone else

At times its frustrating because we are in a position to do something positive about this but cant as we must act within the law. Other times we do something but it falls apart for reasons beyond our control.

Finally, Gardai may seem disinterested or indifferent at times but like doctors, firemen and many many other occupations, ours requires a certain level of mental toughness and shielding to deal with these things everyday. As I said doctors and police are 1st and 2nd for suicide, thats not a coincidence, its because many cant turn off their emotions and get completely consumed by the cases they deal with.

Imagine being a doctor and seeing young innocent children dying on an almost daily basis? Watching them lose the battle against cancer despite your best efforts? Having to deal with their parents? It would destroy you in no time if you werent able to remove yourself from it.

Well, I think I have said my bit as best I can.

Paulzx

Boston wrote: »

I recall looking at stats about 2 years ago which showed the building sector had the highest per capita rate of injuries and deaths over all sectors including the public sector (which AGS would come under). I'll try to find the site for you.

As for how many where injured, the same number of AGS injured directly serving me.

Since when did the amount of injuries in a proffession become the benchmark in calculating how efficient its workers are. I would be of the opinion that if injury figures are going through the roof that people are in fact not doing their job properly. If Guards are constantly getting hurt on duty there is something wrong with the decision making process. The job is risky and carries inherent risks but it is important to view them ascalculated risks.

You are probably a person who gives out about Gardai receiving compensation
for on the job injuries yet you seem to want more of them to get hurt to prove to you that they are doing a good job. Weird

Boston

Paulzx wrote: »

Since when did the amount of injuries in a proffession become the benchmark in calculating how efficient its workers are. I would be of the opinion that if injury figures are going through the roof that people are in fact not doing their job properly. If Guards are constantly getting hurt on duty there is something wrong with the decision making process. The job is risky and carries inherent risks but it is important to view them ascalculated risks.

You are probably a person who gives out about Gardai receiving compensation
for on the job injuries yet you seem to want more of them to get hurt to prove to you that they are doing a good job. Weird

0_o

Try following an argument from start to conclusion without inserting fiction in the middle. I never mentioned efficiency. Injuries where brought up in relation to how dangerous the job is, no one bar you connected it to efficiency or job ability.

Of course someone injured either by accident of though the deliberate actions of another, while at work, deserves compensation. I'd go further and say that every possible resource and facility should be made available to help them should they decide to return to work.

No decent person wishes to see a member of the Gardai injured. No decent person wishes to see anyone injured who is merely doing their job. I resent the implication that I would think differently. Hand on heart I don't trust the organisation as a whole, but if I'd been on Dorset street on Friday night I know which side I would have been standing on.

Terrontress

I think what is most interesting in all this is that the people who are speaking out against the Gardai here appear to be literate, lucid and coherent people. People who appear to have gained a decent education. In fact, the grammar and spelling from those speaking out against the Gardai seems much superior than those who have identified themselves as members.

This is not "scumbags" speaking out as they don't like having their nefarious activities curtailed. It's educated, middle class, law abiding citizens.

From the outside looking in, it would appear to me that the Gardai have alienated the public by allowing crime to continue in certain sectors while clamping down hard on that middle class law-abiding, hard working sector of society.

We've all heard the stories on Gerry Ryan of the kids at the Electric Picnic being passed a joint, being arrested and never being able to go to America while people feel unsafe walking along the Dublin quays due to junkies who can operate with impunity.

Everyone has examples of people having their houses burgled and the Gardai can't come out for two days yet a guard is posted to stand on the N11 and shoot fish in a barrel in issuing speeding fines.

It's the troublemakers who are expected to cause trouble that are given free reign. Once someone who should know better steps slightly out of line they will be come down upon like a ton of bricks.

They are likely to be polite in the car and station, likely to plead guilty, not soil themselves and take their punishment like a decent person. And give the Gardai another crime solved statistic.

I fear the day when I actually need support from a professional policing organisation in Ireland because I can be sure I am not going to get it, if past experience is anything to go by.

deadwood

Terrontress wrote: »

I think what is most interesting in all this is that the people who are speaking out against the Gardai here appear to be literate, lucid and coherent people. People who appear to have gained a decent education. In fact, the grammar and spelling from those speaking out against the Gardai seems much superior than those who have identified themselves as members.

Education and Guards in the same sentence, how amusing - port anyone?

Of course, Brendan Behan was right - guards were lured down from the hills with pieces of raw meat.

I wouldn't presume to know anything about a persons education based on their posts here. My God, listen to any "professional" and you'll hear plenty of "I seen" and "I done".

If such information was available, you'd see that a significant proportion of Gardai have completed degrees masters, hdips and so on - before they join.

Many continue to study in the job. Plenty have a PhD and can do joined writing.

I can read and you'd hardly see my lips move.

And as for the poor middle classes, bless.

Maybe you're right - guards should be policing those nasty working class types and leave the decent middle classes alone. They've made this country what it is after all.

I find your post patronising, insulting and narrow minded.

Boston

I hope you're not holding me up as an example of someone who can spell!

Jumpy

I would normally lean to the yes side, but after this thread I am really tempted to vote no.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055374459

Dyr

I've come across really good gardai who went beyond their job to help people but as an organisation I wouldn't trust them at all, far too many dodgy experiences, and I know far too many people who've had even worse experiences.

Maybe the ombudsman will curb that over time, who knows.

andrewh5

Here are my thoughts:

1. Too much time spent on speeding duties yet no patrols on the motorways.
   
2. No enforcement of the unaccompanied driving law.
   
3. A 'we can do what we want attitude' A garda recently got shocked when I told him to put his seat belt on or I would report him.
   
4. Arrogance and stand offishness from the gard on duty when going into a garda station to ask for advice.

djtechnics1210

andrewh5 wrote: »

Here are my thoughts:

1. Too much time spent on speeding duties yet no patrols on the motorways.
   
2. No enforcement of the unaccompanied driving law.
   
3. A 'we can do what we want attitude' A garda recently got shocked when I told him to put his seat belt on or I would report him.
   
4. Arrogance and stand offishness from the gard on duty when going into a garda station to ask for advice.

Exempt from seatbelts