I bought a new tractor today.....

il gatto

Friend of mine bought a 100hp JD new last year. Wasn't too bad price wise as he could claim the VAT back. He said it's a great tractor to drive and no trouble so far. Hard on juice, but JD's are known for that. It's their third one and they've all drank a bit. He wasn't impressed with the standard equipment though. He didn't realise that things like light stalks were extras as the last JD he bought was second hand and had all the bits and bobs. As much as he loves them, he did say that if he wasn't getting the VAT back, he would've shopped around as it was pricey at full whack. Nice machine though.

54321

Would you believe I've done the exact same thing. I've just bought a New Holland T5050 too.

Reason is the very same. I was looking for a 6-8year old 110 hp tractor but when all my looking was done it made more sense to get a slightly smaller but brand new tractor. I never intended to do it but financially it makes sense. I'll mind the tractor well for 15 years. If I bought the other tractors I was thinking of they would have to be replaced and or parts might be needed, but with a new smaller tractor I would have smaller repair bills and i can mind it well and keep it a long time.

You might not think it but newer smaller tractors make sense!

jmayo

reilig wrote: »

I have been threatening for years and finally today I broke out and went in search of a second hand 4wd. I was looking for something about 100hp - it will mainly be used for spreading slurry, adgitating and wrapping. Need the 4wd as we have a lot of hilly ground and it just didn't feel safe with 4 or 5 ton of slurry after the MF 168.

I knew exactly what i wanted, a New Holland less than 10 years old. I scoured the country all day - travelled nearly 200 miles looking at TS and TN 90's and 100's, TD's and TDD's. Lovely tractors, pity about the price. Would you believe that i could find no New Holland with less than 5000 hours for less than €25000. Who could justify paying this.

Anyway, to cut a long story short, I had a good long chat with my local new Holland dealer. he explained how I could put a new tractor against my tax . I took a big step and a bank loan and bought what you see in the picture - A T5050. Its 97hp, has a good spec - Wide tyres, comfort cab, a lovely synchro shuttle just under the steering wheel. All for just over €41k. It will be delivered to me just after christmas with 09 plates.

Am I crazy? I have the work for it, and looking at all those second hand ones, it will have a great resale value in the next 10 years.

Anyone any opinions???

Best of luck with new wheels, but would you have considered hanging on for a while.
Looking at things, I would bet there are a fair few ex construciton machines appearing now where companies are downsizing or going out of business.
Not sure about engine sizes probably around 140-150hp and would have higher hours I guess ?
Glad to hear you are hangin onto the massey.

reilig wrote: »

I test drove a Claas, and then the dealer told me that basically Renault just changed their brand name to Claas. I ran out of the place - I have heard so many bad stories about Renault. I put them in the same class as Belarus and Farmer tractors.

New Holland used to be ford. Then they were bought by fiat. They have a fiat engine made in Italy. In my experience, Fiat were one of the best tractors ever made. That would be one of my main reasons for buying it.

If I went and bought a Massey Ferguson out of loyalty to the MF 168, I'd be getting a bad deal. New Massies are made by AGCO and I don't think they're up to much.

I couldn't afford a John Deere - they're the merc of tractors, I don't meet the income limit to be allowed to own one of them

Claas took over Renault tractors, not the other way around AFAIK.
That should mean that the Germans might instill better build quality but that might take time. I did hear someone say, nothing falls apart like a Claas.
You know they are built in Le Mans so maybe they are at least fast


Most of the Masseys are now built in Beuavais France, which has been a Massey plant for donkeys of years and just because they are AGCO group is nothing to be sneezed at, since other makes in the group are Valtra and Fendt (that is the Merc of tractors - so is blooming price).

Yeah New Holland is now part of CNH (Case New Holland) so it is part of biggest tractor manufacturer in world.
Sad that the brands are disappearing and ones that are left are just rebadged versions of each other.

Sam Kade

Does anyone on here know what a 1985 7610 4x4 column change is worth? also is there good demand for a 1995 NH 7840?

irish_bob

Sam Kade wrote: »

Does anyone on here know what a 1985 7610 4x4 column change is worth? also is there good demand for a 1995 NH 7840?

a ford 7610 from around 1985 with a collumn change gearbox was the biggest pile of crap ever made , id take anything i could get for it

the 7840 would be worth around 10 - 12 k i would imagine

Turbury

Sam Kade wrote: »

Does anyone on here know what a 1985 7610 4x4 column change is worth? also is there good demand for a 1995 NH 7840?

Good demand for Blue roof 7840's, from farmers that want a well built reliable no frills no crap tractor. (and I'm not a ford or NH fan)

Sam Kade

irish_bob wrote: »

a ford 7610 from around 1985 with a collumn change gearbox was the biggest pile of crap ever made , id take anything i could get for it

the 7840 would be worth around 10 - 12 k i would imagine

Explain what exactly is wrong with a column change?

There is no way you will get a 7840 in Ireland for 10-12k unless it is wrecked.

irish_bob

Sam Kade wrote: »

Explain what exactly is wrong with a column change?

There is no way you will get a 7840 in Ireland for 10-12k unless it is wrecked.

the ford 7610 from that era with the collumn change gearbox have a very poor reputation , im not going to go into details except to say some tractors are renowned for giving trouble and this tractor is certainly one of them , i grew up on a farm and we had a 1985 7610 with collumn change

as for the 7840 , im not a fan of ford but ive never heard to many bad things about that particular tractor , my brother got 11500 for a 1989 3050 john deere three years ago so i presumed a ford which is worth a good deal less than a JD from the mid nineties would be worth in or around 12 , if your so sure what its worth , why ask in here , besides , everything is relativly cheap to buy right now , tough times and all

Bitten & Hisses

Reilig, given that most dealers are reluctant to quote prices for anything until you actually visit to buy the thing, would you be willing to post the straight deal prices you were quoted for the tractors you looked at? If you don't want to post them, perhaps you might PM them to me?

Also, can anyone explain what the main differences between a white and blue top 7840 are?

reilig

Bitten & Hisses wrote: »

Reilig, given that most dealers are reluctant to quote prices for anything until you actually visit to buy the thing, would you be willing to post the straight deal prices you were quoted for the tractors you looked at? If you don't want to post them, perhaps you might PM them to me?

Also, can anyone explain what the main differences between a white and blue top 7840 are?

NH T5050 €41500 (97hp)
NH TN5050 €38800 (96hp)
Landini Powerfarm 105 €42000 (97hp)
Valtra A92 €42000 (98hp)
JD 6330 €46487 (99hp)
Claas Celtis 456 €42250 (99hp)

Couldn't get my local MF dealer to quote me a price unless I was actually going to sit down and commit to buying it. They were the most awkward people to deal with and I wondered what they would be like to deal with if you had to go back to them with a problem after you buying a tractor from them. So I just walked away.

All were quotes on a straight deal. Chose the T5050 because of its build quality and the fact that it offered a power shuttle. It has a roomy cab - the biggest of all of the above tractors. And as I outlined above, the fact that it has the lowest depreciation of any of the above.

Sam Kade

irish_bob wrote: »

the ford 7610 from that era with the collumn change gearbox have a very poor reputation , im not going to go into details except to say some tractors are renowned for giving trouble and this tractor is certainly one of them , i grew up on a farm and we had a 1985 7610 with collumn change

as for the 7840 , im not a fan of ford but ive never heard to many bad things about that particular tractor , my brother got 11500 for a 1989 3050 john deere three years ago so i presumed a ford which is worth a good deal less than a JD from the mid nineties would be worth in or around 12 , if your so sure what its worth , why ask in here , besides , everything is relativly cheap to buy right now , tough times and all

Well if you read what wrote I didn't ask what a NH 7840 was worth I asked was there good demand for them. I have a 7610 column change and it never gave an ounce of trouble.

Sam Kade

Bitten & Hisses wrote: »

Reilig, given that most dealers are reluctant to quote prices for anything until you actually visit to buy the thing, would you be willing to post the straight deal prices you were quoted for the tractors you looked at? If you don't want to post them, perhaps you might PM them to me?

Also, can anyone explain what the main differences between a white and blue top 7840 are?

The NH 7840 first came out in 1992 and had a white cab roof they were changed to blue roof in 1995. The ones with the white cab had problems with the dual power and a lot of them were called back to have a new dual power fitted. However there are still NHs out there that didn't have the upgrade and thats the reason nobody wants to buy a NH with a white roof.

irish_bob

reilig wrote: »

NH T5050 €41500 (97hp)
NH TN5050 €38800 (96hp)
Landini Powerfarm 105 €42000 (97hp)
Valtra A92 €42000 (98hp)
JD 6330 €46487 (99hp)
Claas Celtis 456 €42250 (99hp)

Couldn't get my local MF dealer to quote me a price unless I was actually going to sit down and commit to buying it. They were the most awkward people to deal with and I wondered what they would be like to deal with if you had to go back to them with a problem after you buying a tractor from them. So I just walked away.

All were quotes on a straight deal. Chose the T5050 because of its build quality and the fact that it offered a power shuttle. It has a roomy cab - the biggest of all of the above tractors. And as I outlined above, the fact that it has the lowest depreciation of any of the above.

of the tractors you list above , personally i would have gone for the valtra based on price , im surprised the valtra of that size is around the same money as the NH , valtra are in most cases a more expensive tractor than a JD , also , i believe a valtra would have lower depreciation than a NH

Bitten & Hisses

Personally, I'd have had a tough time deciding between the Valtra, New Holland and the Celtis. I'd probably go for the Celtis, but I'm a bit biased, as we already have a Renault Ares and had a Renault MX before that, which would be the 2 generations previous evuivalent of the Celtis.

reilig

irish_bob wrote: »

of the tractors you list above , personally i would have gone for the valtra based on price , im surprised the valtra of that size is around the same money as the NH , valtra are in most cases a more expensive tractor than a JD , also , i believe a valtra would have lower depreciation than a NH

I had a lot of reasons for not buying the Valtra. I have a relation with one of these and i have had it on several occasions - mainly for putting in bales with the loader or spreading slurry (the 168 needed dry ground). First of all I found the diesel tank to be totally inefficient for the size of the tractor. It holds only 8 gallons and needs to be filled at least twice for every 8 hours work. Secondly, it doesn't have an oil clutch or a syncro shuttle and the one that I drove needed to have its clutch adjusted every service because of the loader work causing a lot of wear on it. Thirdly, the cab is the size of a bean tin. Its uncomfortable to work in it for a full day and you clip your elbows off the corners a lot. Fourthly, it has a crap pick up hitch which wears excessively and will be dangers if it wears much more. Fifthly, every time its serviced by the Valtra dealers, it airlocks for a few hours afterwards until all the air is cleared from the system - resulting in a serious loss of power. Valtra say that this is normal. Sixthly, it has the slowest hydraulics ever - almost as slow as the old 168. Seventhly, it rattles, the cab is loud, and it has a serious bounce on the road - even with the loader off it - meaning that you can never get it up to the 40k if you are travelling a long distance. The final thing is the resale - Vlatra a92 prices are less than the sime sized engine A95 (€42000), but you can buy a 2 year old A96 which cost €43000, with less than 3000 hours on it for just over €30000 from the dealer that I priced. It has one of the worst resale values of all the tractors that I priced.
I believe that some of the bigger Valtra's (Contractor Models) are like you describe, but they cost serious money. The A92 is a farmer's tractor, but there are a lot of better farmer's tractors out there for similar or less money.

Anyway, everyone to their own, people choose tractor brands because they have them for years and trust them. For us, we have never really had a good tractor on the farm - always bought old second hand tractors. Now that we're buying a new one, we have done a lot of research on it and taken the best deal that we can get taking into account price, reliability, service intervals and resale prices. We bought the tractor to do specific types of jobs and it shouldn't have a problem. Other people would buy different because they would have different jobs for it to do and I respect that.

On a further note, I confirmed my order for the tractor last week. They will have it in 3 weeks. I have decided to take the NH 0% finance for it. It will cost me just over €5k for the credit over 5 years. I priced 2 banks and the best I got was €9k for the credit. So NH have won there also

Bitten & Hisses

reilig wrote: »

NH T5050 €41500 (97hp)
NH TN5050 €38800 (96hp)
Landini Powerfarm 105 €42000 (97hp)
Valtra A92 €42000 (98hp)
JD 6330 €46487 (99hp)
Claas Celtis 456 €42250 (99hp)

Just a comment, not intended to start a row or anything, but I reckon putting the 6330 John Deere into that list is an unfair comparison. I would consider the 6330 to be a heavier duty tractor than (for example) a Celtis and would place it more as a competitor of a 4-cylinder Ares. A JD 5820 would probably be a fairer comparison and is probably quite a bit cheaper.

BTW, bloody horror story re the small Valtra. An 8-gallon tank is just silly.

irish_bob

Bitten & Hisses wrote: »

Just a comment, not intended to start a row or anything, but I reckon putting the 6330 John Deere into that list is an unfair comparison. I would consider the 6330 to be a heavier duty tractor than (for example) a Celtis and would place it more as a competitor of a 4-cylinder Ares. A JD 5820 would probably be a fairer comparison and is probably quite a bit cheaper.

BTW, bloody horror story re the small Valtra. An 8-gallon tank is just silly.

+1

the jd 6330 is a step up from those other tractors in terms of size and power , the 6330 is the replacement for the 6320 , my brother has a 2003 6320 , its at least 105hp and it may be 110hp , its a bigger tractor than the ones in that list for sure

on a slightly different note , if i was buying a tractor around that money i think i would give the claas a go , renault were a great tractor and the claas had a john deere engine though i think the new ones have a perkins now


relig , good luck with your NH, always though they were a nicely finished tractor , as pretty as any on the market , interesting points about the valtra , i know that they are very bouncy on the road and they are not exactly handsome , on the plus side they are an animal to pull , superb engine , off course the new ones have the same engine as a massey now

Bitten & Hisses

irish_bob wrote: »

on a slightly different note , if i was buying a tractor around that money i think i would give the claas a go , renault were a great tractor and the claas had a john deere engine though i think the new ones have a perkins now

The Celtis had a DPS engine alright and it's replacement, the Axos, has a Perkins engine. It always amuses me that people who scoffed at Renaults would have no problem operating one simply because they were painted green and had a different nose cone.

marlyman

Differance between 7840
11/91 - 11/95 -> 12/95 on
white roof -> Blue roof
Carrero axle -> Fiat axle
Light dual power ->Heavy dual power
Badged Fored -> Badged New Holland

marlyman

What ever you dont dont buy a JD. I cant advise against it enough. Get a Zetor, get a Belarus, get anything else.

And SAM - your 7610 is growing in value at the present. Everyone is shying away from fancy new tractors and going back to smaller simple ones. By that token a 7840 is still as expensive as every and getting dearer by the month. A very good tractor.

irish_bob

marlyman wrote: »

What ever you dont dont buy a JD. I cant advise against it enough. Get a Zetor, get a Belarus, get anything else.

And SAM - your 7610 is growing in value at the present. Everyone is shying away from fancy new tractors and going back to smaller simple ones. By that token a 7840 is still as expensive as every and getting dearer by the month. A very good tractor.

whats with your aversion to john deeres , thier a far far better tractor than any ford ever built

marlyman

irish_bob wrote: »

whats with your aversion to john deeres , thier a far far better tractor than any ford ever built

1. I have no aversion to JD or to CNH. Im a massey man myself. I have to be impartial though. If you want to loose 40 - 50 % of your investment in a year buy a john deere. i meet people every days litterally crying at the value of what their 2007 john deere is worth today. go to cheffins if you dont believe me - they hand out free kleenex on the john deere row. which btw is ever expanding as lads try to get rid. less than one in twelve sold at the last sale. ONE IN TWELVE. they were just overpriced and glorified to a degree. Also they give the exact same problems as all the modern tractors today. they are eating brake discs to the extent you have to put kevlar discs into them. they are stopping on the road with blocked fuel filters. they are burning out the air con controllers so its full on or full off. the injectors are lasting 600 hours only. they give their own hassle.

2. Come on now, you saying all john deeres are better than all fords. were not in a playground. thats a rediculous statement in a great thread so far.

irish_bob

marlyman wrote: »

1. I have no aversion to JD or to CNH. Im a massey man myself. I have to be impartial though. If you want to loose 40 - 50 % of your investment in a year buy a john deere. i meet people every days litterally crying at the value of what their 2007 john deere is worth today. go to cheffins if you dont believe me - they hand out free kleenex on the john deere row. which btw is ever expanding as lads try to get rid. less than one in twelve sold at the last sale. ONE IN TWELVE. they were just overpriced and glorified to a degree. Also they give the exact same problems as all the modern tractors today. they are eating brake discs to the extent you have to put kevlar discs into them. they are stopping on the road with blocked fuel filters. they are burning out the air con controllers so its full on or full off. the injectors are lasting 600 hours only. they give their own hassle.

2. Come on now, you saying all john deeres are better than all fords. were not in a playground. thats a rediculous statement in a great thread so far.

IMO , you would have to go back to the seventies and the 5000 , 7000 etc range of fords to put ford on a par with JD

as for depreciation , no tractor holds its value like a JD , i help out on my brothers farm on a regular basis and his 6320 which is 5 yrs old has never gave a seconds trouble , be it brakes or any other aspect of the machine

marlyman

irish_bob wrote: »

no tractor holds its value like a JD

That simply isnt true. What about the massey 390. i doubt any tractor , except vintage, will beat the 390 for second hand price valuation.

irish_bob

marlyman wrote: »

That simply isnt true. What about the massey 390. i doubt any tractor , except vintage, will beat the 390 for second hand price valuation.

i stand partially corrected , no individual tractor held its value like the 390 , they are the perfect stockmans tractor and a 1991 390 is probably worth almost as much now as what it cost new

i was talking though in terms of a make of tractor across the board that holds it value

marlyman

irish_bob wrote: »

i was talking though in terms of a make of tractor across the board that holds it value

You are still incorrect in todays market.

Im going to get philisophical for a sec though. You can alwalys sell a massey or a ford in ireland because they have a widespread tradition here and are a respected tractor. even if a guy has a bad experience with one he'll change to the other ofr a while. A john deere man (and im not referring to you) nearly has green blood in his veins, a green overalls on, a john deere hat, and a john deere keyring on his keys. He cant be told his tractor is as good or as bad as a comparable other make nor can he be told its worth a lot less than he thinks - the reason for this is he has paid far too much for it in the first place and he'd have to get new overalls.

coolio kidddd

exellent choice my friend a fiat which new holland badge great to see that they are still making sumting mechanical and not all electrics......tractor is bulletproof and cheap to fix if it ever happens that sumting would go init...... im guessing its one of very few if not any non-electric tractors on the market best of luck in the future with it

poor farmer

we run masseys ,new holland , and deeres
I think the build quality of deeres is superior
From my experience deeres also have the best trade in value

pajero12

coolio kidddd wrote: »

exellent choice my friend a fiat which new holland badge great to see that they are still making sumting mechanical and not all electrics......tractor is bulletproof and cheap to fix if it ever happens that sumting would go init...... im guessing its one of very few if not any non-electric tractors on the market best of luck in the future with it

I'd say she's well run in at this stage :P

reilig

pajero12 wrote: »

I'd say she's well run in at this stage :P

1200 hours on her now. But she's still like new.

As for the electrics - well there is an electric PTO and electric 4wd.