Points for undertaking

antodeco

Thanks Anan. I did see the mondeo, but he was behind a white van who was a good bit behind me in the overtaking lane (road curved). He took my licence and my address and put it all in his book. Then told me to expect a letter in the post.

Anan1

antodeco wrote: »

Thanks Anan. I did see the mondeo, but he was behind a white van who was a good bit behind me in the overtaking lane (road curved). He took my licence and my address and put it all in his book. Then told me to expect a letter in the post.

I've been balled out of it more than once over the years by the single occupants of unmarked Garda cars. One even went so far as to wave a pair of handcuffs at me. In no case, however, did I ever hear anything more about it. Assuming you were polite and apologetic, i'm sure you'll be fine.

antodeco

I was polite and even spelt my address! I didnt apologise, as that admits guilt on the scene!

Jonnykitedude

Dont be so sure dude I got mine within a few weeks!

antodeco

Being honest, I am expecting something, just not sure what!

Clare_Guy

antodeco wrote: »

Being honest, I am expecting something, just not sure what!

Did you take note of the Garda's name or number? If you can, find out what station he's from and go and talk to his Sergeant, explain what happened and tell him you're REALLY sorry and REALLY worried about what will happen to you. DO NOT mention or admit what speed you were doing.

Slidey

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

You missed reading the most important bit, which is mentions 'slow moving queues'. When this would be the case is a matter of opinion (and occasional debate here in 'Motors'). It seems that the opinion of the Garda on this occasion was that there was no 'slow moving queue'.

Aye... well certain things need to be left out if one wishes to get away with it...

Jonty

How can OP get done for speeding? The speedometer in the garda car isn't a legal method of determining speed. Unless he had a dash mounted camera.

The other thing is the 60 zone. Is that 60 zone for the construction works and if so legally enforceable??

antodeco

The garda was only wearing a black tshirt (with a garda logo) and leather trousers. No numbers on him.

bazzachazza

Expect 4 points.

If you get less then consider yourself lucky.

Your biggest mistake was getting caught.

This happens everyday and is a nightmare on the roads.

I wish they would do something about drivers who sit in the right lane, Mainly taxi drivers on the M50 from my experience.

antodeco

Do you mean 4 points for underaking, or a combined 4 points?

bazzachazza

Combined.

But I'm only saying that as a worst case scenario. Prepare yourself for it just in case.

antodeco

Cool. Ive prepared for 4points anyway! Thanks!

Berty

Not necessarily four.

How can you get two points for speeding without photographic evidence?

Wait and see and if you are reported for speeding, request the photographic evidence.

antodeco

quirke_folder wrote: »

Not necessarily four.

How can you get two points for speeding without photographic evidence?

Wait and see and if you are reported for speeding, request the photographic evidence.

True, but cant the garda just give his word?

Berty

Not under EU Law.

Remember that debacle around 3 years ago when the Gardai had to get new speed cameras because they could not impose speeding fines without Evidence.

TheNog

antodeco wrote: »

My concern does lie with the fact that I was speeding. I was going the 120kph, along the 60kph stretch.

Ok first off, sorry for the long post.

I didn;t realise your speed was 120kph in a 60kph so along with undertaking the other car the guard maybe able to make a case for dangerous driving. Obviously this is more serious than dangerous overtaking and speeding combined and therefore has more serious consequences. The maximum fine I think is €5,000 and/or 6 months imprisonment. A disqualification is usually applied too.

On the other hand the guard may have not been able to determine your speed in the 60 zone if you were stopped outside of that zone. Is this the case?

Clare_Guy wrote: »

Did you take note of the Garda's name or number? If you can, find out what station he's from and go and talk to his Sergeant, explain what happened and tell him you're REALLY sorry and REALLY worried about what will happen to you. DO NOT mention or admit what speed you were doing.

For the love of god don;t go near any sergeant because he or she may press for a file. Wait and see if you are contacted by the guard first, then take it from there.

antodeco wrote: »

True, but cant the garda just give his word?

I dont think so if you were summonsed for speeding. For dangerous driving an approximate speed is good enough.

Sorry for the bad news OP

Seth Brundle

IIRC you can't get points for two offences at the same time.
I provided a link to the penalty points site and IIRC there were no points for overtaking on the left.
I'd say that it was a traffic corps car so expect points for dangerous overtaking or something!

deadwood

kbannon wrote: »

IIRC you can't get points for two offences at the same time.

He can get summonsed for them though.

antodeco

Can I be summonsed on the word of one garda though? Thought there had to be two?

Mr. Presentable

Do they have a camera in the car like on the tv? He was driving close behind you and if so has a recording.

antodeco

Being honest if they played it back, theyd see how close he was...

cyclopath2001

I suppose you'll be arguing that the Garda was speeding too?

Good luck with that.

antodeco

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

I suppose you'll be arguing that the Garda was speeding too?

Good luck with that.

Good work on making up your own assumption there. Where did I even mention that?

deadwood

antodeco wrote: »

Can I be summonsed on the word of one garda though? Thought there had to be two?

Concerning the speed issue, a second garda to confirm the speedo reading would be good pracice in the absence of a speed meter reading (hair dryer/camera), but this would usually only happen in dangerous driving cases. Each case will be judged on its own merits and the evidence of one guard will be considered accordingly.

Berty

Again. Sorry to mention it again:

Whilst I was in Portlaoise court there were many people contesting road traffic offenses. The Judge said on more than one occassion that she took the word of a Garda over that of anybody else because the Garda is trained and tasked by the government to be correct.

deadwood

quirke_folder wrote: »

Again. Sorry to mention it again:

Whilst I was in Portlaoise court there were many people contesting road traffic offenses. The Judge said on more than one occassion that she took the word of a Garda over that of anybody else because the Garda is trained and tasked by the government to be correct.

And why wouldn't she!

In my experience, there are enough offenders around to prosecute without gardai dreaming up offences.

I have rent to collect and endless hours of GAA to watch, without manufacturing offences against innocent drivers.

antodeco

Ive nothing wrong with a single garda stating the fact, just wondering what the law itself was!

Lumen

antodeco,

FWIW, my opinion on your two "offences".

Breaking the speed limit is illegal, not immoral. Inappropriate/unsafe speed, which may occur above or below the limit, is immoral and illegal, but rarely prosecuted because the proof is more subjective.

Undertaking is a fairly subjective offence, since there is no clear definition of what constitutes slow "traffic". In my opinion, the law means "trundling along in a queue well below the safe speed for a stretch of road in the prevailing conditions". In other words, if you pass on the left well below the posted limit in fog, you should be pulled over and given a kicking.

The garda was possibly being an arse. He could have pulled the idiot driving with no lane discipline or attention. The fact that he pulled you instead indicates either that (a) you were taking the piss speed-wise, and he didn't feel he could let it go, or (b) he is in the wrong job.

Poor lane discipline is endemic in Ireland, and creates the sort of frustrating situations which cause otherwise decent drivers to do the wrong thing and undertake. It is still the "wrong thing" though, because if the driver in front is not paying attention (as you would expect from his behaviour) he may well pull across into you mid-manoeuvre.

I sometimes undertake, when there is a clear lane between me and the numpty and I have an exit strategy. More often, I first flash the driver from a safe distance to remind him of his obligation to keep left. If that fails, and there is not enough space to safely undertake, I pull back and to the left and wait for someone more aggressive to tailgate him to death, in the hope that I might see an entertaining bit of natural selection in effect.

Additionally, I have had some success with contesting an offence by going to court. In fact, the garda witness didn't turn up, and my case was dismissed (nil points, no fine).

Not sure all that helps, but I felt like a ramble.

Mr. Presentable

Lumen wrote: »

antodeco,

FWIW, my opinion on your two "offences".

Breaking the speed limit is illegal, not immoral. Inappropriate/unsafe speed, which may occur above or below the limit, is immoral and illegal, but rarely prosecuted because the proof is more subjective.

Undertaking is a fairly subjective offence, since there is no clear definition of what constitutes slow "traffic". In my opinion, the law means "trundling along in a queue well below the safe speed for a stretch of road in the prevailing conditions". In other words, if you pass on the left well below the posted limit in fog, you should be pulled over and given a kicking.

The garda was possibly being an arse. He could have pulled the idiot driving with no lane discipline or attention. The fact that he pulled you instead indicates either that (a) you were taking the piss speed-wise, and he didn't feel he could let it go, or (b) he is in the wrong job.

Poor lane discipline is endemic in Ireland, and creates the sort of frustrating situations which cause otherwise decent drivers to do the wrong thing and undertake. It is still the "wrong thing" though, because if the driver in front is not paying attention (as you would expect from his behaviour) he may well pull across into you mid-manoeuvre.

I sometimes undertake, when there is a clear lane between me and the numpty and I have an exit strategy. More often, I first flash the driver from a safe distance to remind him of his obligation to keep left. If that fails, and there is not enough space to safely undertake, I pull back and to the left and wait for someone more aggressive to tailgate him to death, in the hope that I might see an entertaining bit of natural selection in effect.

Additionally, I have had some success with contesting an offence by going to court. In fact, the garda witness didn't turn up, and my case was dismissed (nil points, no fine).

Not sure all that helps, but I felt like a ramble.

Yes, but the OP's trouble is he passed on the left while doing 120 in a 60 zone. Forgetting for a moment the wrongs of the car in the overtaking lane, this is pretty dangerous.