Misogynistic lines/attitudes from porn does it bother you ?

Nevyn

Atm there is a thread entitled "Swallow bitch, its for your health! "
The content of which is about some crappy research a bunch of students did
to try and say that swallowing ejaculate would improve your chances of not getting breast cancer. Fair enough a bunch of lads trying to publish a paper to get more head.

But the thread title irks me.

Now I am not anti porn but I find a lot of the misogynistic lines in it and the ones with misogynistic attitudes to be off putting, things such as 'Swallow bitch" " Take it you whore" and " You know you want it you slut".

It's bad enough that this is in some porn but worrying that some young guys seem to think that this is the norm or seem to want to be able to get away with saying such things.

So do such things in porn bother you ?
Would some one you were with saying these things during sex bother you ?
Would some one saying such things about women bother you ?
Do you think that there are some bad things about the cross over of a lot of things in porn to real life ?

Galvasean

Bit of a turn off TBH.
I prefer for my pornos to be more leaning towards the erotic/fantasy element rather than the nasty/possibly exploitative stuff.

Latchy

Most Porn is in the relams of fantasy .But there is research done to suggest that it can be benificial to people who need to up the anti in the bedroom .As for the well known sexual cliches speech used ,i think it depends but would imagine some people ,specially females would find it very offensive.Lads use this lingo as a release and probably laugh as much at it .Rather than except it as the norm in real life and know the difference .

If something is playful I don't see a problem.
It is when men start directing their self esteem issues as vitrol towards a woman, or womanhood. That is when I get turned off.

I am shocked at the change in young womens attitudes towards sex in this country.
I think young womens sexual expectations are being defined by porn, and I don't think the comphrend that it is not just a physical process.
I worry they are devolping their sexual selfs without emphasising their own satisfaction.

Nerin

Personally,if any man told me to 'swallow bitch' i'd be worried. *looks around* Wait. This is the ladies lounge isn't it?! Blast! *retreats*

Dudess

Thaedydal wrote: »

So do such things in porn bother you ?

Not in and of themselves - if they're part of a script, well then there's an understanding between the actors/actresses and director.
But then again, why should such language be used in the first place? It's ugly, especially when it's so gender specific. But it's obviously a huge turn-on - for both women and men.
When it's carried into real life, well it depends on the context. If the guy's an obnoxious pig who speaks to women like that, well he's more than likely gonna be like that, porn or no porn.

Would some one you were with saying these things during sex bother you ?

Yeah, unless it was part of a game.

Would some one saying such things about women bother you ?

In just a general, everyday context? Totally. People say sh1t like that on After Hours - and AREN'T being ironic. It's obnoxious. Although I don't consider the thread title in question problematic.

Do you think that there are some bad things about the cross over of a lot of things in porn to real life ?

Any examples?

stovelid

A bit of smut talk is always cool, but the bitch and slut speeches wouldn't really be my thing at all. Whether in real life or on the screen.

LightningBolt

Bah, porn. Majority of blokes know that half the stuff that does be in them you rarely get to do to a girl.

Nerin

LightningBolt wrote: »

Bah, porn. Majority of blokes know that half the stuff that does be in them you rarely get to do to a girl.

what,like sexual intercourse? :pac:

monkeyfudge

This is why I stick to nature documentaries about bonobos.

Zaph

LightningBolt wrote: »

Bah, porn. Majority of blokes know that half the stuff that does be in them you rarely get to do to with a girl.

Fixed that for you, it's a lot more fun if both participate you know.

Latchy

LightningBolt wrote: »

Bah, porn. Majority of blokes know that half the stuff that does be in them you rarely get to do to a girl.

The human mind and imagination are a great thing :pac:

Zaph

monkeyfudge wrote: »

This is why I stick to nature documentaries about bonobos.

We'll have none of that filthy monkey primate talk in here please.

brianthebard

Sister Zaphora wrote: »

Fixed that for you, it's a lot more fun if both participate you know.

Personally I'd see things like what Zaph highlighted as more derogatory to women than calling them whore or slut, which are after all just words. However if a girl isn't into that then it wouldn't be a good thing. Things like donkey punching are ott imo.

Galvasean

Nerin wrote: »

what,like sexual intercourse? :pac:

Haha, ZING! :pac:

Dudess wrote: »

Not in and of themselves - if they're part of a script, well then there's an understanding between the actors/actresses and director.

As a former film student that made me laugh.
One of the things that bothers me about the modern porno is the tendency not to care about production values. You'd be amazed how a decent script, sound recording (I work in that field so maybe I'm biased), acting (and I don't just mean faking orgasms) and shot composition can really enchance the whole experience.
Nowadays its all 'gonzo', where the actors (subjects?) just go at it pretty much any way they feel like while the overly excited (tripodless might I add) cameraman wobbles around the place. Would it be so much to ask for a steadi-cam shot?
It's all 'she grabbed that', 'he put that in there'.... No effort at all. :rolleyes:

Galvasean

monkeyfudge wrote: »

This is why I stick to nature documentaries about bonobos.

Those guys are animal! (no pun intended)
They have actually been documented doing positions in the wild that would make a porn star blush. Seriously.

Latchy

Nothing worse than bad porn .......except perhaps waiting for a taxi in the rain

Chinafoot

Galvasean wrote: »

Haha, ZING! :pac:



As a former film student that made me laugh.
One of the things that bothers me about the modern porno is the tendency not to care about production values. You'd be amazed how a decent script, sound recording (I work in that field so maybe I'm biased), acting (and I don't just mean faking orgasms) and shot composition can really enchance the whole experience.
Nowadays its all 'gonzo', where the actors (subjects?) just go at it pretty much any way they feel like while the overly excited (tripodless might I add) cameraman wobbles around the place. Would it be so much to ask for a steadi-cam shot?
It's all 'she grabbed that', 'he put that in there'.... No effort at all. :rolleyes:

You'll be expecting a plot next...

Hate the slut and whore stuff. One thing I really can't watch is the gagging stuff. I find that incredibly degrading.

Karoma

Thaed wrote:

Do you think that there are some bad things about the cross over of a lot of things in porn to real life ?"

I have to ask: Which came first? The bad attitude by some men, or porn? Could it be asked that what's in porn is a reflection on real life? isn't all porn about fantasy - in the exploitative stuff, aren't men just being liberated from the polite, civil interaction in to which we are trapped? don't you think most men can tell the difference? Are you in fact being sexist (and ageist) in assuming that young men cannot?

latchyco wrote: »

Nothing worse than bad porn .......except perhaps waiting for a taxi in the rain

How about porn about waiting for a taxi in the rain?

*Taxi pulls up, splashing an already soaked woman*
Taxi Driver: How'ya love, can I take ya for a ride, wha'?!
Her: Well, seeing as I'm so wet...


... BRB.

Dudess

Oo-er... Hot!
Also... BRB!

Chinafoot wrote: »

One thing I really can't watch is the gagging stuff. I find that incredibly degrading.

"But it's not degrading... the woman chooses to do it..." etc

brianthebard

Galvasean wrote: »

Those guys are animal! (no pun intended)
They have actually been documented doing positions in the wild that would make a porn star blush. Seriously.

After this post I had to look them up.

Sexual intercourse plays a major role in Bonobo society, being used as a greeting, a means of conflict resolution and post-conflict reconciliation. With the exception of a pair of Congoese gorillas observed doing so[17], Bonobos were thought to be the only non-human apes to have been observed engaging in all of the following sexual activities: face-to-face genital sex (most frequently female-female, then male-female and male-male), tongue kissing, and oral sex.[18] In scientific literature, the female-female sex is often referred to as GG rubbing or genital-genital rubbing.

Sexual activity happens within the immediate family as well as outside it, and often involves adults and children, even infants.[19] Bonobos do not form permanent relationships with individual partners. They also do not seem to discriminate in their sexual behavior by gender or age, with the possible exception of sexual intercourse between mothers and their adult sons; some observers believe these pairings are taboo. When Bonobos come upon a new food source or feeding ground, the increased excitement will usually lead to communal sexual activity, presumably decreasing tension and allowing for peaceful feeding.[20]

Bonobo males frequently engage in various forms of male-male genital sex (frot).[21][22] One form has two males hang from a tree limb face-to-face while "penis fencing"[23][24]. Frot may also occur where two males rub their penises together while in missionary position. A special form of frot called "rump rubbing" occurs to express reconciliation between two males after a conflict, where they stand back-to-back and rub their scrotal sacs together.

Bonobo females also engage in female-female genital sex (tribadism) to socially bond with each other, thus forming a female nucleus of Bonobo society. The bonding between females allows them to dominate Bonobo society - although male Bonobos are individually stronger, they cannot stand alone against a united group of females.[24] Adolescent females often leave their native community to join another community. Sexual bonding with other females establishes the new females as members of the group. This migration mixes the Bonobo gene pools, providing genetic diversity.

Bonobo reproductive rates are not any higher than that of the Common Chimpanzee. Female Bonobos carry and nurse their young for five years and can give birth every five to six years. Compared with Common Chimpanzees, Bonobo females resume the genital swelling cycle much sooner after giving birth, allowing them to rejoin the sexual activities of their society. Also, Bonobo females who are either sterile or too young to reproduce still engage in sexual activity.

Craig Stanford, an American primatologist, has challenged the claim that Bonobos are more sexually active than Common Chimpanzees. Stanford compared existing data on Common Chimpanzees and Bonobos in the natural habitat and found that female Common Chimpanzees copulated at least as often as female Bonobos, while male chimpanzees actually copulated more than male Bonobos.[25] His comparison excluded same-sex sexual contacts, however, which are very common in Bonobos. De Waal's book on Bonobos includes interviews with field workers and relies on the studies by Takayoshi Kano, the only scientist to have worked for two decades with wild Bonobos.[26] New studies in Africa by Gottfried Hohmann, a research associate at the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology of Leipzig, Germany, believes to have seen significant violence, but fact remains that there are thus far no documented cases of lethal aggression among Bonobos, in sharp contrast to the evidence for Common Chimpanzees.[27]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonobo

Quality stuff.

LightningBolt

Nerin wrote: »

what,like sexual intercourse? :pac:

Sorry I actually meant the demeaning parts of porn:o

Latchy

Karoma wrote: »

How about porn about waiting for a taxi in the rain?

*Taxi pulls up, splashing an already soaked woman*
Taxi Driver: How'ya love, can I take ya for a ride, wha'?!
Her: Well, seeing as I'm so wet...


... BRB.

You could use that in a porn movie for sure or maybe you've being reading the book ' Tales from the back seat ' ?

Galvasean

brianthebard wrote: »

After this post I had to look them up.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonobo

Quality stuff.

What's really cool is that their society has replaced violence with sexual liberation. We could learn a lot from them...

pseudonym1

As part of a liberating society porn has become acceptable however it is desynthezisng. details and deeds are leaning our younger generation to expect more and attempt to act out what they have previously veiwed in some smut flick. The fact it has become acceptable to be a title of a health research project, concerns me.

But if its good for your health - cant be bad!

simu

Yes. Because it's mean and because the idea of the sort of idiotic fratboy who would come up with such lines is offputting.

Ghost Train

for 500 points "Misogynistic lines/attitudes featured in porn"

What is dirty talk?

monkeyfudge

Galvasean wrote: »

What's really cool is that their society has replaced violence with sexual liberation. We could learn a lot from them...

They're exceptionally vicious when it comes to hunting monkeys though. Eat them alive they do.

Not that any of this is on topic... but what would bonobos say if they could talk during sex?

Chinafoot

eolhc wrote: »

for 500 points "Misogynistic lines/attitudes featured in porn"

What is dirty talk?

In fairness, dirty talk doesn't require derogatory terms like whore and slut.

pseudonym1

Galvasean wrote: »

What's really cool is that their society has replaced violence with sexual liberation. We could learn a lot from them...

Ya like making peadaphelia and insest de rigeur!!??

You like it like that ...puuurrrrrrrrr

simu

Bonobos would just say the syllables of their own name over and over again, like pokémon. Bono boooooo bono booooo bono bono bono boooooo. Obvs.

Nevyn

Karoma wrote: »

I have to ask: Which came first? The bad attitude by some men, or porn?

How far back to you want to go ?
Yes it would pre date porn but it has always been in porn going back as far as some of the earliest of porn.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tijuana_bible

Karoma wrote: »

Could it be asked that what's in porn is a reflection on real life?

IF you take the view that it is art then it's life reflected in art.

Karoma wrote: »

isn't all porn about fantasy - in the exploitative stuff,

I think that for the most part porn is an industry, it's a product to be consumed and like all media it does have an effect on the people that watch it.

Karoma wrote: »

aren't men just being liberated from the polite, civil interaction in to which we are trapped?

That is derogatory to men and not a view I espouse at all.

Karoma wrote: »

don't you think most men can tell the difference?

I think that most grown men can but idiots aside teens and young men who have been more exposed and female teens and young women can develop
unrealistic ideas about what sexual interactions are meant to be like.

For many people making fanastys become reality is part of their goal with their sex life all of which between two consenting adults is fine in my book
but when colours people's views of people in a negative way and changes thier interaction with people then it's a concern imho.

Karoma wrote: »

Are you in fact being sexist (and ageist) in assuming that young men cannot?

I think the rise of raunchy culture is bad for both young men and women and I don't think that makes me sexist or ageist, it's not about sexual freedom and choice but about sexploitation.

Phototoxin

It bothers me an I'm XY last time i checked. I think its a turn off, its demenaing to all involved and the women in such films do other woman a disservice.

Also re the film element/lack of tripod. I agree. If they were of 'film' quality then they might be respectable but personally I dont see much difference in hiring a few hookers and grabbing me digicam, having at it and uploading it to whatever the xxx version of youtube is.

Erotic films would fare better but I've not seen one

I think that most grown men can but idiots aside teens and young men who have been more exposed and female teens and young women can develop
unrealistic ideas about what sexual interactions are meant to be like.

For many people making fanastys become reality is part of their goal with their sex life all of which between two consenting adults is fine in my book
but when colours people's views of people in a negative way and changes thier interaction with people then it's a concern imho.

QFT

fantasies fun, but not at the others expense

Dudess

Galvasean wrote: »

As a former film student that made me laugh.

Ah you know what I mean...
When I say "script" I mean it in the... ahem... loosest sense of the word.

Nevyn

Phototoxin wrote: »

having at it and uploading it to whatever the xxx version of youtube is.

That would be porntube or redtube.

Phototoxin wrote: »

Erotic films would fare better but I've not seen one

There are classier products by the likes of Vivid.

Phototoxin wrote: »

fantasies fun, but not at the others expense

Which can be mental and emotional and not just physical.

Nevyn

The rise of gonzo porn has been sickening tbh, but there are limits
http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/oct/03/040216/judge-sentences-porn-producer-46-month-prison/

Gonzo porn baron max hardcore got sentenced for 46 Months In Prison as his productions
were seen as breaking obscenity laws.

Dudess

Oh that fuker. I remember seeing him on the documentary Hardcore. What a bastard. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0322500/

anonymous_joe

It's something that can make uncomfortable men feel happier about themselves. Call it a way of 'proving' their masculinity/virility.

JC 2K3

I would be more comfortable with the existance of porn that sickened me than censorship being enforced on the production of porn of any kind.

metrovelvet

It bothers me because I have no doubt that 12 year olds peruse these boards. If I had a child old enough to use a computer I would have software that banned this site, not just because of that thread but also because of other language I have seen on After Hours.

It bothers me also because I suspect that if the line were "swallow black bitch" or "swallow asian bitch" the thread would be locked and the OP banned, indicating that sexism is more tolerated than racism on these boards.

The more immediately available media is the more the mainstream population will become desensitised to what porn presents, so it continuously has to up the ante on shock value. And I'm a firm believer that life imitates art, monkey see, monkey do.

I am intrigued by mysogyny. Lacan observed that for a man to get turned on, he must think of the object [the woman] as a whore and for a woman to get turned on she must think of the object [the man] as a hero. There is something to this I think.

But I also think it's their way of working out their [heterosexual me]resentment on their dependencies on women. For gay men it's different, as a gay friend observed, it's about making repulsive something you feel guilty about not being attracted to.

cHaTbOx

I find this totally out of line and demeaning for all women.

"Swallow bitch, its for your health! " shows women as sex objects ,which no doubt is a common occurance in the society we live in,but there is a difference between reality and fantasy.

In these Porn videos, the women self exploit themselves which in turn, turns women into a commodity,which they are not.

Censorship is not the issue,It is attidudes of those who think this fantasy is an expectation in reality.

Of course these fantasies can be played out if both engaged are comfortable,but the problem is when one participant forces there fantasy on the other which in turn, puts them in the uncomfortable situation of feeling degraded and not equal.

robtri

Not all porn is about making the woman look like a sex object, there is a lot of porn out there that women are the dominent mistress and that men are the sex object....

cHaTbOx

robtri wrote: »

Not all porn is about making the woman look like a sex object, there is a lot of porn out there that women are the dominent mistress and that men are the sex object....

Nobody is disputing that fact but phrases like:

'Swallow bitch" " Take it you whore" and " You know you want it you slut"

Come from porn which focuses on degradation of women and this is the issue which has been brought up in this thread.
These phrases may be used by dominatrixes but this is still fantasy and in real life I don't think man or woman likes to talked down to unless they want to be.
The issue here is between fantasy and real life and its boundaries between partners

Nevyn

random chatbox wrote: »

The issue here is between fantasy and real life and its boundaries between partners

Also the difference is when it is not just between consenting parties or when a person is watching porn when it is seen as funny or in any way acceptable to address women in general in what way which is what that thread in AH does.

Nerin

I think a more worrying issue is that men who are using porno to learn how to talk to women are getting laid. And breeding.

CDfm

well its an artform by professional film makers

if you look at it its like three act plays of the 19th century or even a Simpsons episode. So it follows a format.

I blame the women they get paid 5 times more then the male actors

its time for equality equal pay just like Women Tennis Players getting equal prize money to men

The men in these movies are being discriminated against and dont know it

Peared

Does it bother me..

..in porn? No.

..as a thread title that is considered acceptable even though it is in no way 'ironic' and just some young fellas way of getting to say something he will never get the chance to say in real life (I'm guessing here) on one of the most popular forums on boards? Yes.

Reku

Thaedydal wrote: »

Atm there is a thread entitled "Swallow bitch, its for your health! "
The content of which is about some crappy research a bunch of students did
to try and say that swallowing ejaculate would improve your chances of not getting breast cancer. Fair enough a bunch of lads trying to publish a paper to get more head.

But the thread title irks me.

Now I am not anti porn but I find a lot of the misogynistic lines in it and the ones with misogynistic attitudes to be off putting, things such as 'Swallow bitch" " Take it you whore" and " You know you want it you slut".

It's bad enough that this is in some porn but worrying that some young guys seem to think that this is the norm or seem to want to be able to get away with saying such things.

So do such things in porn bother you ?
Would some one you were with saying these things during sex bother you ?
Would some one saying such things about women bother you ?
Do you think that there are some bad things about the cross over of a lot of things in porn to real life ?

Well the good news is that in femdom porn the roles and the lines get reversed, i.e. the ladies tell the men the above lines. So is it really a gender thing or a dominance thing?
Some girls actually like some derogatory name calling during foreplay/sex, as one put it to me once "I like to feel dirty", wasn't into it myself, tried, but too weird....:o
Undoubtedly some men do too.

Kya1976

it just makes me laugh, boys will be boys and all of that:rolleyes:
Dont mind talking dirty during sex but having said that it wouldn't really do it for me if a man told me to 'swallow betch' either.....

shellyboo

Thaedydal wrote: »

So do such things in porn bother you ?
Would some one you were with saying these things during sex bother you ?
Would some one saying such things about women bother you ?
Do you think that there are some bad things about the cross over of a lot of things in porn to real life ?

Firstly to answer the question - such things in porn don't bother me in the slightest. If I didn't want to hear degrading language towards women, I would avoid porn altogether; just as if I didn't want to see people peeing on eachother I would avoid watching porn that involved watersports. Porn caters to its audience, the only reason that it's out there is because people like to watch it.

Someone saying such things about women doesn't bother me unless they're serious. A lot of this talk goes on between men in jest, and most of them are good guys who'd never dream of disrespecting their partner in bed - unless she asked them to There are, of course, the exceptions to this rule - these men are arseholes. Nothing new there. Just don't have sex with them.

The fact that such language sometimes crosses over into real life is entirely natural, as porn didn't invent it out of thin air. Porn is made by people who like to make money turning other people on - the fact that a lot of porn includes this language suggest that a lot of people (mainly men, I grant you) find it a turn-on. However, this doesn't mean they want to bring it into their own sex lives - as with something like anal sex, men are often happy to leave that in the realm of porn.

Chinafoot wrote: »

In fairness, dirty talk doesn't require derogatory terms like whore and slut.

Quite right, it doesn't... but I'd be prepared to bet money that there are a hell of a lot of women out there who bloody love it. There is a problem with our attitude to sex in general - everyone's got their knickers in a twist about what's "normal" and what's "respectful" and "oh, that's sexist and derogatory"... it's sex, not politics. Take the stick out of your ass and enjoy it... maybe invest in a butt plug instead There are a vast number of women out there who enjoy being talked dirty to in bed, and who even enjoy being called slut and whores and bitches because they have the wherewithal to understand that just because your partner calls you that to turn you on in bed, or to turn himself on even, doesn't mean that you are a slut/whore/bitch or indeed that he actually thinks you're a slut/whore/bitch.

It's only derogatory if the person being called it thinks so, in essence. If someone calls me a slut, it's only when I take offence that it becomes offensive. It's the same when someone calls me fat - I choose whether or not to take offence. The man who employs this kind of language with a partner who does find it offensive is not a man at all, but an immature child with no respect for the sexual boundaries of his partner. It's the same type of guy who moans about using condoms, thinks that going anywhere near his own ejaculate is "gay", thinks porn has anything to do with real sex... and thinks that sex is something you "do" to a woman. The problem here is not the language, it's the attitude of the person using it.

Ahem... rant over

pseudonym1

As my ole Gran used to say - if there were no bad women there would be no bad men!!

You command the respect your giving especially as a woman..