Athiesm and Skeptisism in General.

Goduznt Xzst · 14-10-2008 4:35pm

I'd be skeptical about pretty much all the things you mentioned.

There are certain aspects of mind over body control that i'd believe in, such as certain forms of martial arts that train the individual to control and concentrate their Qi.

Dades · 14-10-2008 4:59pm

oeb wrote: »

Now, you can't be willing to by hypnotised if you believe there is no such thing.

That reminds me of a Kelly1 type contention that you can't hear the voice of God unless you are willing to accept Him.

oeb · 14-10-2008 5:25pm

Dades wrote: »

That reminds me of a Kelly1 type contention that you can't hear the voice of God unless you are willing to accept Him.

And I mean it in the same way.

If you think something is a load of horse crap, you will not give it chance people want you too.

It is an extremely common claim in the hypnotism community that someone who does not believe in hypnotism can not be hypnotised. (Once again, let me stress that most of my knowlage and reading material is orientated towords stage, but it also includes such things as "quit smoking" type conditioning.)

pH · 14-10-2008 5:36pm

mathias wrote: »

When a study published by the American cancer journal shows a 68% benefit due to Hypnotism then you sit up and take notice ,

That is after all what science is right , you test it and examine the results ... there should be no opinions involved , it either works or it doesnt ... this isnt a study carried out by a lot of new age quacks !

It isn't?

http://www.baylor.edu/isreligion/index.php?id=43113

The guy as a long history of flogging the hypnosis horse any way possible, along with prayer and whatever your having a bit of yourself.

At the very least , its something worth more investigation and is not to be dismissed along with UFO's and lake monsters.

It's sad but true that because this guy got published in a decent journal more money will be thrown on this junk. That's money and time not being spent on research that might actually cure or help cancer patients.

Anyway as I've said countless times before the key part of science is not publishing or even peer review, it's replication.

Zillah · 14-10-2008 9:27pm

Goduznt Xzst wrote: »

There are certain aspects of mind over body control that i'd believe in, such as certain forms of martial arts that train the individual to control and concentrate their Qi.

Er, Qi? As in the scientifically invisible energy that suffuses existence? You're joking right?

Overheal · 14-10-2008 11:18pm

oeb wrote: »

Do you know a psychic who is an athiest, or do you know an athiest who thinks he is a psychic? What's your stand on the matter?

Well sure, if you want to take the evolution into account. plenty of folk think humans could one day develop all sorts of telepathic and telekinetic powers. Some people think its already happened but I disagree: not without the science to back it up.

oeb · 14-10-2008 11:56pm

Overheal wrote: »

Well sure, if you want to take the evolution into account. plenty of folk think humans could one day develop all sorts of telepathic and telekinetic powers. Some people think its already happened but I disagree: not without the science to back it up.

I was more referring to her standpoint on the matter. Trying to get her view on it. (Which I got)

It is irrelevant that people think we might evolve esp, that does not make it so (or even likely). Only a few hundred years ago people thought that the world was flat. People believe that the world will end any day now and there will be a rapture, in the 1960s I am sure some people thought we would be flying around in our own personal spaceships by now.

I of course completely agree with your point that once real science backs it up (and can reliably reproduce it) then the facts of the matter change.

pH · 15-10-2008 12:04am

oeb wrote: »

Only a few hundred years ago people thought that the world was flat.

Careful now!

Fanny Cradock · 15-10-2008 1:07am

You will be unsurprised to hear that as a Christian I wouldn't go near a ouijia board. Funnily, I do remember one atheist here recanted a very negative experience with a ouija board. The word terrifying was used.

Asiaprod · 15-10-2008 3:06am

True, I will never go near one again. Once was enough.:)

Fanny Cradock · 15-10-2008 3:30am

Didn't want to use your name.

Asiaprod · 15-10-2008 3:37am

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

Didn't want to use your name.

No problem:)

oeb · 15-10-2008 8:39am

Asiaprod wrote: »

True, I will never go near one again. Once was enough.:)

So, would you now say that you believe in 'spirits' of some kind? How does that reflect on your athiesm?

Can you justify the denial of one supernatural force while accecpting another? Or were you a diest rather than an athiest to begin with anyway?

Asiaprod · 15-10-2008 11:44am

oeb wrote: »

Can you justify the denial of one supernatural force while accecpting another? Or were you a diest rather than an athiest to begin with anyway?

I'm a Buddhist:)
I do not believe in a God or Gods. I do have a spiritual side. I do not find that this side conflicts with my Atheism.

Goduznt Xzst · 15-10-2008 12:46pm

Zillah wrote: »

Er, Qi? As in the scientifically invisible energy that suffuses existence? You're joking right?

No I'm not. I'd be a proponent of acupuncture and its benefits also. Having used it numerous times myself. I wouldn't agree with the idea that this Qi is, in fact, our soul. More that the human lifeforce is a form of electrical energy and that it might be possible for the human mind to be trained to consciously control it.

Again this is purely speculative on my part but I'm accepting that even though I'm an Atheist there are aspects, outside the understanding of science, that I'm curious about and would give my attention to.

Mark Hamill · 15-10-2008 12:58pm

Goduznt Xzst wrote: »

No I'm not. I'd be a proponent of acupuncture and its benefits also. Having used it numerous times myself. I wouldn't agree with the idea that this Qi is, in fact, our soul. More that the human lifeforce is a form of electrical energy and that it might be possible for the human mind to be trained to consciously control it.

As an avid martial artist I can tell you that almost everything people claim to be able to do with Qi (in a martial arts related sense) is complete unalduterated bullsh*t.

Fanny Cradock · 15-10-2008 1:47pm

It seems that there are many flavours of atheist out there.

Zamboni · 15-10-2008 1:51pm

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

It seems that there are many flavours of atheist out there.

You can't have too much of a good thing.

Malari · 15-10-2008 1:51pm

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

It seems that there are many flavours of atheist out there.

We are all individuals!

Goduznt Xzst · 15-10-2008 1:52pm

Mark Hamill wrote: »

As an avid martial artist I can tell you that almost everything people claim to be able to do with Qi (in a martial arts related sense) is complete unalduterated bullsh*t.

That may very well be true, but I'm interested enough in it to keep reading up on examples of it.

Imo, all science starts with a belief in something without facts, then they do the testing and if the facts don't support the belief then they disregard it. Nevertheless there is that initial faith there in the scientist to test his assumption which he believes to be true. I guess the difference is scientists find it very easy to let go of their faith once they prove themselves wrong.

Dades · 15-10-2008 1:58pm

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

It seems that there are many flavours of atheist out there.

All atheists are vanilla. It's only the toppings that are different.

Mark Hamill · 15-10-2008 3:45pm

Goduznt Xzst wrote: »

That may very well be true, but I'm interested enough in it to keep reading up on examples of it.

The problem with it is people take the mind over matter stuff (like lying on blades, taking shots to the groin without flinching etc), which is very interesting and has some merit, and then they come up with qi fireballs and no-touch chi knockout crap like George Dillman (check out this Fox news report on him, its hilarious) and others.

Galvasean · 15-10-2008 4:22pm

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

It seems that there are many flavours of atheist out there.

As opposed to religious folk who all taste the same, like sheep.

CerebralCortex · 15-10-2008 4:35pm

Galvasean wrote: »

As opposed to religious folk who all taste the same, like sheep.

Whoa! Take it easy man. He is right there are many flavours of atheist I thought thats what we were trying to get across to these religious folk?

Dades · 15-10-2008 4:45pm

CerebralCortex wrote: »

Whoa! Take it easy man. He is right there are many flavours of atheist I thought thats what we were trying to get across to these religious folk?

+1

Lets take any concessions without scathing rebukes!

sink · 15-10-2008 5:04pm

Didn't read the whole thread but I'll just add my views. I am an atheist who has no supernatural beliefs. I do however accept hypnotism has some merit, I would put it in a similar category to mentalism and do not think it has anything to do with the supernatural. It is mainly done through the power of suggestion and requires the person being hypnotised to believe in hypnotism in the first place. When people believe they are under the influence of hypnotism they no longer feel bound by traditional social convention or their own fears and so they transgress thoughts and behaviours they wouldn't under normal circumstance.

Galvasean · 15-10-2008 6:06pm

CerebralCortex wrote: »

Whoa! Take it easy man. He is right there are many flavours of atheist I thought thats what we were trying to get across to these religious folk?

He knows I'm kiddin'. - I hope.

Zillah · 15-10-2008 6:06pm

Goduznt Xzst wrote: »

No I'm not. I'd be a proponent of acupuncture and its benefits also. Having used it numerous times myself. I wouldn't agree with the idea that this Qi is, in fact, our soul. More that the human lifeforce is a form of electrical energy and that it might be possible for the human mind to be trained to consciously control it.

How very odd. Would the benefits of such therapies not be better explained as a coming from simple placebo effects and relaxation rather than requiring the assumption of a scientifically invisible "lifeforce"...?

Whispered · 15-10-2008 10:42pm

Dades wrote: »

All atheists are vanilla. It's only the toppings that are different.

Racist!

Goduznt Xzst wrote: »

No I'm not. I'd be a proponent of acupuncture and its benefits also. Having used it numerous times myself. I wouldn't agree with the idea that this Qi is, in fact, our soul. More that the human lifeforce is a form of electrical energy and that it might be possible for the human mind to be trained to consciously control it.

This is what I would tend to believe, (being a reiki master and all) but it depends on your defination of soul. I said earlier that I believe in souls, but what is a soul? For me it's the essence of a person, made up fom aspects of their personality, past experiences and this life force (ki). Not a person sized cloud that lives in your body til you die, then flies off looking like you, with your mind and personality.

Fanny Cradock · 15-10-2008 11:39pm

Galvasean wrote: »

He knows I'm kiddin'. - I hope.

You brute, you brute, you vicious brute!

Athiesm and Skeptisism in General.

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