Is a peaceful 32 united ireland possible

Zambia

thehighground wrote: »

So you are happy to go along with a place, a 100 miles up the road, where not just catholics (all non-white protestants) are actually thought of and treated as second class citizen and the people in charge will do anything to maintain the status quo.

Actually I live here I dont feel that at all. Granted it used to be the case (long time ago), but its bloody hard to discriminate against someone here in employment.

And catholic areas are just as quick to go against foreign non white folk.

I also cant stand the opinion that if you don't live in Ireland North or South that negates your opinion on the country's affairs.

However I grant the status quo piont Unionists love nothing better than doing nothing pretty much all roads lead to a United Ireland so they fight for the right to take the traditional route which is backwards.

Their election manifestos are a blue print to killing an economy. But the SF party dont have a economic clue either.

McArmalite

Chucky4celtic wrote: »

i have lived in london belfast glasgow edinburgh and back home in ireland again.... i dont think there will ever be peace in this country or any country bein lived all over i can tell u honestly that people in england include the north as theres and alot do hate the irish.... certain pubs in scotland wont let irish in and just recently i have noticed the same here in ireland... some places let the english in but refuse to join in conversation with them or worse still i saw a man approach an english friend of mine and abuse him cause of his accent... there will never be a peaceful 32 in ireland cause in a way we either hate the english or love em the majority of people out there hate the english and they still go on like that to this day

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

One for the Walter Mitty bin........

" in england include the north as theres and alot do hate the irish. "........." certain pubs in scotland wont let irish in ......."some places let the english in but refuse to join in conversation with them or worse still i saw a man approach an english friend of mine and abuse him cause of his accent" :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

luckyfrank

Chucky4celtic wrote: »

vast majority maybe have u ever been to a football match in london or say glasgow?

Yes my brother lives in london and i go to an arsenal match once a year at least and ive always being treated very well over there

I can understand glasgow might be a bit different but a hooligan is a hooligan and they can cloak themselves in whatever flag or tradition they want the average joe soap in britain is just like the average joe soap here

djpbarry

Chucky4celtic wrote: »

...the majority of people out there hate the english and they still go on like that to this day

Absolute nonsense; if the majority of Irish people "hated the English", then it's very unlikely that so many English people would tolerate life in this country.

Chucky4celtic wrote: »

vast majority maybe have u ever been to a football match in london or say glasgow?

:rolleyes:

So we’re judging British people based on the behaviour of football hooligans, are we?

Chucky4celtic

djpbarry wrote: »

Absolute nonsense; if the majority of Irish people "hated the English", then it's very unlikely that so many English people would tolerate life in this country.
:rolleyes:

So we’re judging British people based on the behaviour of football hooligans, are we?

ur mad i not judging british people were all the same theres plenty of irish holligans tooo or have u not noticed that yet?

dlofnep

The majority of Irish people do not hate English people. I would agree that there is an element of competitiveness within sporting events, and sometimes a hint of political/historical stigma - But in most part, I find that we get on fine.

Chucky4celtic

McArmalite wrote: »

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

One for the Walter Mitty bin........

" in england include the north as theres and alot do hate the irish. "........." certain pubs in scotland wont let irish in ......."some places let the english in but refuse to join in conversation with them or worse still i saw a man approach an english friend of mine and abuse him cause of his accent" :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

am i not entitled to my say?

djpbarry

Chucky4celtic wrote: »

ur mad i not judging british people were all the same theres plenty of irish holligans tooo or have u not noticed that yet?

Of course, but the point is the overwhelming majority of people are obviously NOT hooligans, so using their behaviour as a basis for an argument is completely pointless.

McArmalite

luckyfrank wrote: »

Unacceptabe the 6 counties is where they live it is there home

I mean after more that 300 years they'd surly have squatters rights by now

Seriously that kinda attitude will never see a united ireland the only united ireland worth having is an inclusive one of both prodestants and catholics

No offence Frank - and fair play to you , you started this thread - if they want to be british, then they should go and live in britain, but that's arguably applicabile as the state of britian is already on the way to breakup as the rise of Scottish nationalism is seeing to that.

Your a decent sort but not trying to put you down, you have fallen into the british trap of defining an Irelands national struggle as a illogical, mad struggle between " both prodestants and catholics " britain engineered the secterian society that 'Northern Ireland' was, giving the perverted values of those who engineered it ( the fat, drunken, ugly, vain English War Criminal Churchill and co. ), nothing but an insult to decent human fellings could emerge from it. That the occupied counties turned out to be a breeding ground for british secterianism and hate arose not because it was a misguided mistake, but because that's what a few* deemed best for the 'british sense of fairplay'. And their lies the perversion of it all.


*the fat, drunken, ugly, vain English war criminal Churchill and co.

McArmalite

Chucky4celtic wrote: »

am i not entitled to my say?

Well posting nonsense and posting something that bears reality are two completely different things. The ordinary people of England aren't anything what you try to say they are.

luckyfrank

McArmalite wrote: »

No offence Frank - and fair play to you , you started this thread - if they want to be british, then they should go and live in britain, but that's arguably applicabile as the state of britian is already on the way to breakup as the rise of Scottish nationalism is seeing to that.

Your a decent sort but not trying to put you down, you have fallen into the british trap of defining an Irelands national struggle as a illogical, mad struggle between " both prodestants and catholics " britain engineered the secterian society that 'Northern Ireland' was, giving the perverted values of those who engineered it ( the fat, drunken, ugly, vain English War Criminal Churchill and co. ), nothing but an insult to decent human fellings could emerge from it. That the occupied counties turned out to be a breeding ground for british secterianism and hate arose not because it was a misguided mistake, but because that's what a few* deemed best for the 'british sense of fairplay'. And their lies the perversion of it all.


*the fat, drunken, ugly, vain English war criminal Churchill and co.

The past is the past nobody can change that the pain, violence, hatred and discrimination that the irish people have suffered will not be forgoten however we must remember the unionsit community have also suffered they were bombed and murdered to

There is no point in bringing up the past when building for the future im not in any sense in a british mind trap i believe the way forward for a united ireland is through comprimise otherwise the 6 counties will remain in the union for a very long time

Its comprimise for a united ireland or no comprimise for the union you pick ?
There is no in between

Fratton Fred

McArmalite wrote: »

No offence Frank - and fair play to you , you started this thread - if they want to be british, then they should go and live in britain, but that's arguably applicabile as the state of britian is already on the way to breakup as the rise of Scottish nationalism is seeing to that.

Your a decent sort but not trying to put you down, you have fallen into the british trap of defining an Irelands national struggle as a illogical, mad struggle between " both prodestants and catholics " britain engineered the secterian society that 'Northern Ireland' was, giving the perverted values of those who engineered it ( the fat, drunken, ugly, vain English War Criminal Churchill and co. ), nothing but an insult to decent human fellings could emerge from it. That the occupied counties turned out to be a breeding ground for british secterianism and hate arose not because it was a misguided mistake, but because that's what a few* deemed best for the 'british sense of fairplay'. And their lies the perversion of it all.


*the fat, drunken, ugly, vain English war criminal Churchill and co.

and that must be why we have orange marches, sectarian riots and gatholic ghettos all across Britain right. Thanks for telling me, I've often wondered why.:rolleyes:

yes, that was sacasm in case anyone didn't notice.

Fratton Fred

Chucky4celtic wrote: »

i have lived in london belfast glasgow edinburgh and back home in ireland again.... i dont think there will ever be peace in this country or any country bein lived all over i can tell u honestly that people in england include the north as theres and alot do hate the irish.... certain pubs in scotland wont let irish in and just recently i have noticed the same here in ireland... some places let the english in but refuse to join in conversation with them or worse still i saw a man approach an english friend of mine and abuse him cause of his accent... there will never be a peaceful 32 in ireland cause in a way we either hate the english or love em the majority of people out there hate the english and they still go on like that to this day

you must be very very unlucky, that's all I can say. I have only received abuse once for being English, in two years (and even that was just a twat trying to be big) the good thing is though, when someone like that does start, there are plenty of Irish lads around keen to show that the ****wit isn't representative of them, so they are quick to intervene.

turgon

dlofnep wrote: »

But I have high hopes for this struggle being achieved through diplomatic means.

Note to dlofnep: there no longer is any struggle.

McArmalite

Fratton Fred wrote: »

and that must be why we have orange marches, sectarian riots and gatholic ghettos all across Britain right. Thanks for telling me, I've often wondered why.:rolleyes:

yes, that was sacasm in case anyone didn't notice.

No Fred, you don't have " orange marches, sectarian riots and Catholic ghettos all across Britain .

But very unfortuanately we do have them in the british occupied counties in the north east of Ireland. Unionist secterianism is a british Frankenstein, the people who carry it out are british citizens, they march behind the butcher's apron (otherwise known as the union jack ), they sing God Save the Queen ( not the Sex Pistols version mind ) they burn the tricolour and the local GAA shirt on their bonfires etc, etc, etc.



(

dlofnep

Here comes Sand in 3... 2... 1..

Sand

McArmalite

Your no more a from Kildare and a nationalist as I'm a unionist. I wouldn't think your views on Ireland and partition etc would be not very common or appreciated in Kildare or anywhere this side of the border, but would be very typical of the views expressed by many of the citizens of good 'loyal' places like Ballymena, Portadown etc ??

I amnt a nationalist? Jesus McArmalite, how did you figure it out? Seriously, what gave it away? Was it like....every post I've ever made on the North? My utter contempt for the Provos and their murderous mission? My disagreement that "uniting" northern Ireland is possible, or even beneficial? That when I consider any of the above issues my thought processes are not subdued by the sound of "The Fields of Athenry" on repeat?

The Gombeens have almost always opposed every baby step breaking with britain - " I'm a nationalist but.......my pocket.......the country isn't ready for it......." sort of thing .

Well, Ive never claimed to be a nationalist. Seeing as the Republic isnt in the UK I cant be a unionist either. Possibly I just dont really care for the status of Northern Ireland so long as they A) Stop murdering each other. Dont start costing me immense sums of money on some stupid reunification wet dream project thats not been so well thought out it makes Cheneys Iraq occupation plans look like the reconstruction of post war Japan.

You want the Republic and Northern Ireland to be unified? They already are. We have the free movement of people, capital, services and adherence to basic common standards in law and governance. You can choose whatever passport or identity you wish. Theres a common rugby team amongst several other examples.

The EU invalidates all the petty tribalistic nationalists who have cursed Europe for centuries. Can any of the Provos on this thread come up with a single advantage for Irish unification that isnt already addressed by the EU? Or is it "Shure, just because liek"

IRLConor

McArmalite wrote: »

if they want to be british, then they should go and live in britain

The logical extension of this is that if I want to be Irish I must live in Ireland. Absolute nonsense. I'd be no more or less Irish if I lived in London or Paris or Berlin or anywhere else.

Giving you the benefit of the doubt, what you wanted to say was "if they want to live in Britain, then they should go and live in Britain" which is not quite an accurate representation of what the Unionists want. Substitute Britain with UK and you're closer to the truth. They want to live in the UK and they do. They live in the "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland". The clue is in the name.

I suppose you could try to argue that Northern Ireland isn't in the United Kingdom but you'd be dead wrong. The vast majority of countries in the world (if not all of them), including, crucially, both the RoI and the UK, recognise that Northern Ireland is part of the UK. Claiming otherwise is an exercise in self-delusion.

ardmacha

The vast majority of countries in the world (if not all of them), including, crucially, both the RoI and the UK, recognise that Northern Ireland is part of the UK.

This is a pointless statement. Nobody is saying that NI is not part of the UK, if it were not then there would hardly be need for this thread.

Absolute nonsense. I'd be no more or less Irish if I lived in London or Paris or Berlin or anywhere else.

But if you settle in Paris, would your children and grandchildren not be French? Many people here seem happy that unionists keep their colonial identity and refuse to integrate with Irish society. Are you equally happy that Moldovans, Nigerians, Pakistanis or whatever do likewise. Are you happy for any of these groups (and I am not saying for one moment they want to) take over part of the country and intimidate Irish people who live there so that people are afraid to take part in normal manifestations of Irish culture. Or is it a case of I'm alright Jack where you wouldn't like this to happen in your street but you have no problem with it happening elsewhere?

Kama

Sand wrote:

Possibly I just dont really care for the status of Northern Ireland so long as they A) Stop murdering each other. Dont start costing me immense sums of money on some stupid reunification wet dream project thats not been so well thought out it makes Cheneys Iraq occupation plans look like the reconstruction of post war Japan.

Having family and freinds in the North, and having spent a fair bit of time there, I do care about the status, but agree on the A and B Sand outlined. Mainly A tbh, but B never seems to be addressed by 'Unionists' of the Nationalist persuasion: 'sure just because like', where 'because' is the myths of a territorial ethnic nationalism, one pure and undiluted people dwelling in innocent union before the fiendish British interlopers arrived. Which is just that, a myth.

The 'pure Gael people', like pretty much every nation, are the product of a succession of invasions over history, back through time, reconstructed by the history of a nation-building exercise...whether they are Scots, Vikings, waves of Celts, whoever, all the way back to the Beaker People. If you want to be *really* mythic about it you can go back to The Book of Invasions, Milesians taking the land from the Tuatha de Danaan. I guess the Celts should go back where they came from?

Who was 'here first' as a claim doesn't end, and is a surefire recipe for bloodshed. Thankfully, fewer people find this sort of identity meaningful anymore, and fewer still think the costs of enforcing this claim on others is justifiable. 2 cheers for human progress tbh...

IRLConor

ardmacha wrote: »

This is a pointless statement. Nobody is saying that NI is not part of the UK, if it were not then there would hardly be need for this thread.

Some Republicans deny that it's legally part of the UK. That's part of the problem. Some of them even deny the legitimacy of the current Irish government. They're mad of course, but that doesn't mean they don't have some part to play in the normalisation of the situation in the north.

ardmacha wrote: »

But if you settle in Paris, would your children and grandchildren not be French?

If they so chose to be. If they chose to be Irish then they could be Irish. Or they could be both. It would be their choice.

ardmacha wrote: »

Many people here seem happy that unionists keep their colonial identity and refuse to integrate with Irish society.

Ah, but their traditions are part of Irish society. True, a particularly odd-looking set of traditions from where I'm standing but up until the point where those traditions include violence against those who don't share them they're completely harmless.

I've met a bunch of Unionists in my time who are perfectly reasonable people who don't hate nationalists or want violence against them, they simply wish Northern Ireland to remain part of the UK. They're not "refusing to integrate with Irish society"; they are perfectly well integrated into the society in which they live which happens to be in Ireland (the island, not the republic).

ardmacha wrote: »

Are you equally happy that Moldovans, Nigerians, Pakistanis or whatever do likewise.

Provided they obey the laws I don't care whether they integrate (whatever that really means) or not. I think they should try to avoid ghettoisation since that would be preserving their culture at the expense of their well being but apart from that, I wish them well in their endeavours.

ardmacha wrote: »

Are you happy for any of these groups (and I am not saying for one moment they want to) take over part of the country and intimidate Irish people who live there so that people are afraid to take part in normal manifestations of Irish culture.

I don't know quite what you're trying to get at with "normal manifestations of Irish culture", but it's not acceptable in my book for anyone to intimidate someone else into accepting their culture. That goes both for Irish people trying to aggressively assimilate people from other cultures and for anyone coming in from outside who would try to impress their culture upon us.

ardmacha wrote: »

Or is it a case of I'm alright Jack where you wouldn't like this to happen in your street but you have no problem with it happening elsewhere?

Not at all, I don't condone the intimidation of any group for their culture whether they are "native" or "non-native".

Erin Go Brath

McArmalite wrote: »

Sorry about this Erin, your a sound poster, but I completetly disagreee with the " unionists heritage would be safeguarded bit.

Kick the Pope bands down O'Connell St........Croppies lie down in Derry as the unionists walk by and throw pennies frm their pockets at the nationalist houses on the Bogside, Creggan, Bardywell etc ( which brings to mind, even the Ameriacan version of the british orange order in Alabahama didn't do that to the black people ), No Catholics need apply( or RC's - Roman Catholics ) as their daddies used to say in the good old days.

...... that we have orange in our national flag shows we don't want to exclude our unionist brethren

Undoubtably the best thing for Ireland is those british citizens who are so against Ireland, would be to see them go 'home"'.

Mindful that unionists have for the most part abused their position of power within the statelet, still two wrongs don't make a right. We as irish people have a duty to live up the 1916 proclamation and treat all within our state equally and fairly regardless of race, colour, or creed.

I'm not advocating kick the pope bands or OO marches down O'Connell St, although i'd have a grudging admiration for anyone brave enough to participate in one. Any and all contentious orange marches should be left localised to protestant enclaves within the north and shouldnt pass through Catholic streets, so as to not cause offence to local residents.

When unification comes there may be some hardcore unionists who refuse to live in the new state, i would be in favour of a repatriation agreement with Britain. The British taxpayer will have to foot the bill for this seeing as their government created and nurtured the unsightly mess that is sectarian norn iron.

Fratton Fred

McArmalite wrote: »

No Fred, you don't have " orange marches, sectarian riots and Catholic ghettos all across Britain .

But very unfortuanately we do have them in the british occupied counties in the north east of Ireland. Unionist secterianism is a british Frankenstein, the people who carry it out are british citizens, they march behind the butcher's apron (otherwise known as the union jack ), they sing God Save the Queen ( not the Sex Pistols version mind ) they burn the tricolour and the local GAA shirt on their bonfires etc, etc, etc.
(

you miss my point. How can this be British and a sign of their "Britishness" when this sort of things happens nowhere else in Britain (with the exception of parts of West Scotland).

If this was created by the British, why was it not created elsewhere in Britain? why stop in NI? Who cares if they burn GAA shirts, maybe the GAA should have let them join in the first place. Who cares if they burn the tri colour, they don't want it as their national flag, they recognise the Union flag, which is theirs. Who cares if they sing GSTQ, its their national anthem.

andrewlownie101

What is all this about???????

The world is rapidly moving towards a one world government situation, and you lot are rattling on about a 32 county Ireland. (did you ever ask yourselves why there are 32 counties in the first place?)

JWAD

andrewlownie101 wrote: »

did you ever ask yourselves why there are 32 counties in the first place?

Brilliant!

Fratton Fred

andrewlownie101 wrote: »

What is all this about???????

The world is rapidly moving towards a one world government situation, and you lot are rattling on about a 32 county Ireland. (did you ever ask yourselves why there are 32 counties in the first place?)

duhhhh, it was set up by the Celts 15,000 years ago so they could play football against each other.

Blimey, some people;)

Kama

Better be authentic Gaelic football! And that other sort should be banned, and rugby too, as devious cultural imperialism...oh wait, we tried that, didn't work out... The British are already footing the bill for Norn Iron; when do we start to foot the bill? ANyway, it won't happen til the Irish Reunification of 2024, so plenty of time to plan ahead. Data knows what he's talking about...

getz

wasent there a english football team that played for the irish republic in the world cup?

Fratton Fred

getz wrote: »

wasent there a english football team that played for the irish republic in the world cup?

There's a great bit in Mike Basset England Manager about when England, Scotland and Ireland meet up at the airport before the world cup, quite funny.

Kev_ps3

To answer the OP question, yes it is possible, but only if we kick out the prods:D